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In defense of the "F*g" word

NiqashMotawadi3
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5/8/2014 7:09:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I've noticed many debates that say things like "homosexuals are beings who are incapable of love and purely lustful creatures" and those seem to be allowed, but when someone uses the second F word, that's an instant ban. Why is that?

Don't get me wrong. I actually support homosexuality, but I also support freedom of expression.

1- I have homosexual friends, and they're not really bothered with that word, but they seem to use it themselves to denote other homosexuals who are drama queens.

2- I sometimes even use it on straight people who do weird and nerdy stuff, and it is understood as a joke.

3- I sometimes even use it when I've missed a friend of mine, and I usually say, "where've you been, F**?"

If I'm not mistaken, the Mods are being hypersensitive over such word because of cultural biases and probably the historic usage of that term in America, which I'm not even familiar with, but this website is not limited to Americans.

I understand that personal insults are not allowed according to the new moderation policy, and so I can't target someone like Person X and say "Person X is a f*g." But what if I said something like "I missed you f*gs" in a loving tone to my friends on here, or what if I said "I'm such a f*g today." Shouldn't those be allowed?
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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5/8/2014 7:26:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hard to convey that over the internet. Safer to just policy ban rather than let one through every now and then and risk someone getting offended and causing a flame war.

Otherwise I agree with you.
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Intrepid
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5/8/2014 7:27:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
1. This belongs in a different forum

2. F*g is a derogotory term regardless of the contrext. DDO shouldn't have such terms.
Zaradi
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5/8/2014 7:28:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 7:27:38 AM, Intrepid wrote:

2. F*g is a derogotory term regardless of the contrext.

Why?
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NiqashMotawadi3
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5/8/2014 7:32:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 7:27:38 AM, Intrepid wrote:
1. This belongs in a different forum

This is something on moderation. Not sure why you think it doesn't belong here.


2. F*g is a derogotory term regardless of the contrext. DDO shouldn't have such terms.

Not really. I don't see much difference between F*g and B!tch in terms of degradation. And DDO seems to be okay with the latter if used in a friendly way.
Zaradi
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5/8/2014 7:38:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I guess maybe you could justify it by saying that the vast majority views it as offensive, so it's better to just conform to maintain the image of the site. Even though I don't agree with society's view on the word, I'd buy that response.
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NiqashMotawadi3
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5/8/2014 7:39:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 7:26:16 AM, Zaradi wrote:
Hard to convey that over the internet. Safer to just policy ban rather than let one through every now and then and risk someone getting offended and causing a flame war.

Otherwise I agree with you.

People can get offended over anything. Moderators, IMHO, should have enough reading skills to deduce actual offense from harmful jokes, otherwise it would be too pragmatic, robotic and nonsensical.
NiqashMotawadi3
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5/8/2014 7:40:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Err. Sorry Zaradi.

People can get offended over anything. Moderators, IMHO, should have enough reading skills to deduce actual offense from harmless* jokes, otherwise it would be too pragmatic, robotic and nonsensical.
Sswdwm
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5/8/2014 7:40:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
F@ggots are nice, they go well with mashed potatoes and gravy.
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Zaradi
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5/8/2014 7:41:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 7:39:30 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 5/8/2014 7:26:16 AM, Zaradi wrote:
Hard to convey that over the internet. Safer to just policy ban rather than let one through every now and then and risk someone getting offended and causing a flame war.

Otherwise I agree with you.

People can get offended over anything. Moderators, IMHO, should have enough reading skills to deduce actual offense from harmful jokes, otherwise it would be too pragmatic, robotic and nonsensical.

Can but probably won't. There's things that are more likely to cause offense than others, and saying f*g is one of them. Warning/banning one person to prevent a flame war is arguably better than risking a flame war that could cause multiple warnings/bans.
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Zaradi
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5/8/2014 7:41:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 7:40:51 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
F@ggots are nice, they go well with mashed potatoes and gravy.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
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Zaradi
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5/8/2014 7:42:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 7:40:20 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
Err. Sorry Zaradi.


I understood the point you were trying to get across.
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NiqashMotawadi3
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5/8/2014 7:43:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 7:41:28 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 5/8/2014 7:39:30 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 5/8/2014 7:26:16 AM, Zaradi wrote:
Hard to convey that over the internet. Safer to just policy ban rather than let one through every now and then and risk someone getting offended and causing a flame war.

Otherwise I agree with you.

People can get offended over anything. Moderators, IMHO, should have enough reading skills to deduce actual offense from harmful jokes, otherwise it would be too pragmatic, robotic and nonsensical.

Can but probably won't. There's things that are more likely to cause offense than others, and saying f*g is one of them. Warning/banning one person to prevent a flame war is arguably better than risking a flame war that could cause multiple warnings/bans.

Do you believe that something like Swswdm's comment could cause a flame war?
Zaradi
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5/8/2014 7:46:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 7:43:58 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 5/8/2014 7:41:28 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 5/8/2014 7:39:30 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 5/8/2014 7:26:16 AM, Zaradi wrote:
Hard to convey that over the internet. Safer to just policy ban rather than let one through every now and then and risk someone getting offended and causing a flame war.

Otherwise I agree with you.

People can get offended over anything. Moderators, IMHO, should have enough reading skills to deduce actual offense from harmful jokes, otherwise it would be too pragmatic, robotic and nonsensical.

Can but probably won't. There's things that are more likely to cause offense than others, and saying f*g is one of them. Warning/banning one person to prevent a flame war is arguably better than risking a flame war that could cause multiple warnings/bans.

Do you believe that something like Swswdm's comment could cause a flame war?

Could it? Sure. Will it? Probably not. Maybe, if someone's just being super touchy when they read it. But probably not.
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NiqashMotawadi3
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5/8/2014 7:49:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Could it? Sure. Will it? Probably not. Maybe, if someone's just being super touchy when they read it. But probably not.

But you rather have all instances of it banned because not everyone would use the word in the same way?
Zaradi
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5/8/2014 7:57:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 7:49:42 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
Could it? Sure. Will it? Probably not. Maybe, if someone's just being super touchy when they read it. But probably not.

But you rather have all instances of it banned because not everyone would use the word in the same way?

Would I rather it? No I wish people would realize that words only offend you if you let them offend you and they have no inherent power within them. Do I think it's smarter? Yeah.
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NiqashMotawadi3
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5/8/2014 8:00:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 7:57:11 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 5/8/2014 7:49:42 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
Could it? Sure. Will it? Probably not. Maybe, if someone's just being super touchy when they read it. But probably not.

But you rather have all instances of it banned because not everyone would use the word in the same way?

Would I rather it? No I wish people would realize that words only offend you if you let them offend you and they have no inherent power within them. Do I think it's smarter? Yeah.

You remind me of the Morgenbesser quote on Pragmatism, "It's all very well in theory but it doesn't work in practice."
Zaradi
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5/8/2014 8:09:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 8:00:46 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 5/8/2014 7:57:11 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 5/8/2014 7:49:42 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
Could it? Sure. Will it? Probably not. Maybe, if someone's just being super touchy when they read it. But probably not.

But you rather have all instances of it banned because not everyone would use the word in the same way?

Would I rather it? No I wish people would realize that words only offend you if you let them offend you and they have no inherent power within them. Do I think it's smarter? Yeah.

You remind me of the Morgenbesser quote on Pragmatism, "It's all very well in theory but it doesn't work in practice."

Still kinda true, though.
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zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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5/8/2014 9:53:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 7:09:32 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I've noticed many debates that say things like "homosexuals are beings who are incapable of love and purely lustful creatures" and those seem to be allowed, but when someone uses the second F word, that's an instant ban. Why is that?

Don't get me wrong. I actually support homosexuality, but I also support freedom of expression.

1- I have homosexual friends, and they're not really bothered with that word, but they seem to use it themselves to denote other homosexuals who are drama queens.


2- I sometimes even use it on straight people who do weird and nerdy stuff, and it is understood as a joke.

3- I sometimes even use it when I've missed a friend of mine, and I usually say, "where've you been, F**?"

If I'm not mistaken, the Mods are being hypersensitive over such word because of cultural biases and probably the historic usage of that term in America, which I'm not even familiar with, but this website is not limited to Americans.

I understand that personal insults are not allowed according to the new moderation policy, and so I can't target someone like Person X and say "Person X is a f*g." But what if I said something like "I missed you f*gs" in a loving tone to my friends on here, or what if I said "I'm such a f*g today." Shouldn't those be allowed?

I don't ever use the word, but my understanding is that it's like using the word "nigger". Black people can get away with calling each other it, but anyone else shouldn't. I don't know what I think about whether or not it should be allowed on DDO. I'm guessing that it would upset some people on here.
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"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
ZMowlcher
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5/8/2014 10:06:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 7:40:51 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
F@ggots are nice, they go well with mashed potatoes and gravy.

Could you explain that joke to me?
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YYW
Posts: 36,375
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5/8/2014 10:09:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
If you think that it's ok to use the word "f@ggot" or "f@g" in any form of general conversation, you should do it at work, in the classroom or around adults. Be very sure that they hear you say it. See how they respond, and report back.
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zmikecuber
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5/8/2014 10:09:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 7:40:51 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
F@ggots are nice, they go well with mashed potatoes and gravy.

Ehh... a spotted dick tastes better.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
YYW
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5/8/2014 10:17:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 10:12:47 AM, XLAV wrote:
I think this thread should be in the society section.

Of course it should, but the OP made a calculated choice not to do that. The reason he posted it here is because he wants to incite drama and cause others unhappiness in the forums. Naturally, he's not going to admit this and he's going to pretend that his intentions were otherwise -but that's not how Niquash plays ball. Rather, he baits people into conflagration while feigning innocence. That this threat was posted at all, that it says what it says and that he posted it here all showcase his immaturity...
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YYW
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5/8/2014 10:19:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 10:17:51 AM, YYW wrote:
At 5/8/2014 10:12:47 AM, XLAV wrote:
I think this thread should be in the society section.

Of course it should, but the OP made a calculated choice not to do that. The reason he posted it here is because he wants to incite drama and cause others unhappiness in the forums. Naturally, he's not going to admit this and he's going to pretend that his intentions were otherwise -but that's not how Niquash plays ball. Rather, he baits people into conflagration while feigning innocence. That this thread* was posted at all, that it says what it says and that he posted it here all showcase his immaturity...
Tsar of DDO
NiqashMotawadi3
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5/8/2014 10:20:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 10:09:32 AM, YYW wrote:
If you think that it's ok to use the word "f@ggot" or "f@g" in any form of general conversation, you should do it at work, in the classroom or around adults. Be very sure that they hear you say it. See how they respond, and report back.

I've done all that already and never got a negative reaction. I probably have not done it in front of my boss, but he himself has referred to some people as "Lootis", the Arabic equivalent of "f@gs," so I don't see your point.
ESocialBookworm
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5/8/2014 10:23:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 10:17:51 AM, YYW wrote:
At 5/8/2014 10:12:47 AM, XLAV wrote:
I think this thread should be in the society section.

Of course it should, but the OP made a calculated choice not to do that. The reason he posted it here is because he wants to incite drama and cause others unhappiness in the forums. Naturally, he's not going to admit this and he's going to pretend that his intentions were otherwise -but that's not how Niquash plays ball. Rather, he baits people into conflagration while feigning innocence. That this threat was posted at all, that it says what it says and that he posted it here all showcase his immaturity...

*DISCLAIMER: Not taking any personal sides. Just stating my opinion*

I disagree actually. I think it should be under this section because:

-Less people go to the society section so here, the topic would be seen faster to get more responses.

-It is about moderation, especially on the site, so it should be here.
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YYW
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5/8/2014 10:23:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 10:20:10 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 5/8/2014 10:09:32 AM, YYW wrote:
If you think that it's ok to use the word "f@ggot" or "f@g" in any form of general conversation, you should do it at work, in the classroom or around adults. Be very sure that they hear you say it. See how they respond, and report back.

I've done all that already and never got a negative reaction. I probably have not done it in front of my boss, but he himself has referred to some people as "Lootis", the Arabic equivalent of "f@gs," so I don't see your point.

Sorry... Say it in front of Europeans, Americans, Australians, South Africans, or South Americans. See how they respond. I wouldn't expect a Lebanese adult, any more than I would expect an Iranian to appreciate the gravity of the word "f@g."
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YYW
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5/8/2014 10:25:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 10:23:04 AM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 5/8/2014 10:17:51 AM, YYW wrote:
At 5/8/2014 10:12:47 AM, XLAV wrote:
I think this thread should be in the society section.

Of course it should, but the OP made a calculated choice not to do that. The reason he posted it here is because he wants to incite drama and cause others unhappiness in the forums. Naturally, he's not going to admit this and he's going to pretend that his intentions were otherwise -but that's not how Niquash plays ball. Rather, he baits people into conflagration while feigning innocence. That this threat was posted at all, that it says what it says and that he posted it here all showcase his immaturity...

*DISCLAIMER: Not taking any personal sides. Just stating my opinion*

I disagree actually. I think it should be under this section because:

-Less people go to the society section so here, the topic would be seen faster to get more responses.

Differences in traffic volume of not justify improperly categorizing a topic.

-It is about moderation, especially on the site, so it should be here.

Moderation is mentioned, and that would be an implication of the principle he's advancing. It was not his main point.
Tsar of DDO