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Final Address to DDO, Plus Endorsement

progressivedem22
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5/14/2014 7:37:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well, this has been a long time in the making, so I felt as though I had to get this off my chest. I should note that I only reactivated to post this: this isn"t a time to proclaim, "See! He wasn"t even serious about leaving!"

I"m aware that most people aren"t even going to read this, but for the few who do, it will be a victory for me if you even consider for a moment what I"m saying.

I should warn you that this is my uncensored view of the site and I"m not withholding anything at this point because I literally have nothing to lose.

Anyway, I"m going to go through the reasons I left DDO in the hope that someone, somewhere will take this as the motivation they need " not that I"m seen as anything special, or capable of even providing that motivation " to actually address some of the most pressing problems on this site.

So, I"m going to back up for a moment to where this all began. The policy was just implemented, and people were leaving left and right, and others were threatening to leave. I decided, after a long deliberation and even a good-bye thread, to stay. I felt as though there was still a role for me, and a few days later, I declared for the presidency.

Well, that led to an onslaught of nonsense and misinformation, initially promulgated by one user whom I won"t name. He posted on my declaration thread saying something to the effect of "You left in rage just days ago, and now you"re running for president?"

Of course, I pointed out the misinformation in his post and why it was insultingly wrong (I never left in rage, it was over broader problems with DDO, not over the new policy, he couldn"t find a single "rage post" or any motivation that I ever would have had to engage in a personal attack, and I had already stated not long that I was going to stick around for a while to try to improve the site " but facts be darned!) " and, ironically, that was a classic example of a personal attack, but I suppose rules don"t apply to some people.

Well, after that, like complete sheep, people followed him " about four or five typed "+1" or something nonsensical like that, which should have been a red flag from the start. How could a bunch of people " and, no, this is not directed at the entirety of DDO " who had no idea of what actually happened, hardly knew me, hardly knew what I wanted to do if elected (at that point, my platform wasn"t even out), pass judgment on me? How could they even ignore my retort to that embarrassingly wrong misinformation?

Well, I went out to post a platform, only for it to receive".0 responses. Wonderful. Elections on this site are truly fair! The best analogy I can offer you is to the so-called libertarian utopia of a "free market" " yes, I"m really going to miss arguing with libertarians. We see elections as a free market, don"t we? People competing on a so-called equal playing field for votes, inevitably at the whim of the voters?

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Ever heard of economies of scale or asymmetries of market share? If not, then for goodness" sake, my time on DDO was useless because I used to talk about these all the time. Essentially the case is that " and, trust me, I"m getting to my point " people start from different places, have different levels of bargaining leverage and power, different connections, etc., so acting as though they"re on an equal playing field is laughable. Heck, platforms don"t even seem to matter: we see endorsements before all of the candidates were even announced, or the platforms released. It"s like high school.

And this simply cuts to the broader point, and only Romanii pointed this out on my goodbye thread " which only had 16 posts, by the way, so clearly I was an utterly useless and inconsequential member, perhaps more than I thought. Anyway, I pointed out months ago that there was an established hierarchy on DDO. I know what you"re thinking: wow, that"s crazy.

Well, what if I told you that a very prominent member actually agreed with me? Yup, Mikal agreed with me a while back, though I"m not sure if he would now. But back when the Mr./Mrs. DDO competition sign-ups had launched, he "vetoed" me as a judge several times over with the logic that I was a new member, he hadn"t much seen me on the forums, etc., and this happened for some others as well. So, I pointed out what I found to be an obvious question: how can someone actually gain experience if they"re being rejected from the community by virtue of their lack of experience? It"s a chicken-and-egg conundrum, is it not? Well, not long after, he let me in, agreeing that this notion of "established reputation" was actually quite pervasive on this site " and how could you even deny that, anyway?

So, fast-forwarding to the present, that"s all we"ve seen. People without any evidence decided to attack my integrity, claiming that I "wasn"t a serious candidate," either because they listened to the lies that I had left in a rage, or because I was still fairly new. It"s funny, actually, because the in the real political world, that"s seen as a plus: "I"m an outsider, vote for me!" On DDO, it excludes you from even getting your foot in the door. It"s interesting how that works, especially with all of the self-proclaimed grassroots (read: Astroturf " sorry, I had to go there) supporters on this site.

Well, then blade declared, and the site went wild " "the first serious candidate," "finally someone we can support because that progressivedem guy sucks," etc., all of which were utter nonsense. I don"t know the guy and I won"t pretend that I do. He may be a fine candidate and he certainly seems as much, but I meant what I said the day I decided to leave: he"s the next ordained leader. He wouldn"t even have needed to declare a platform in order to be elected. Look, for instance, at his promise to "ensure that no debate goes unvoted." It"s a noble goal, but is it attainable? For someone like him, that"s a "hefty but very worthy promise." If I said that, people would laugh at me. How could some unserious person like myself every accomplish something like that?

Case in point? And I acknowledge that this is the part of this piece that I was least looking forward to writing, but it has to be said. TUF passed the mantle to blade not long ago. In announcing that he wasn"t running for president, he said something to the effect of "with blade having declared, I know this site will be left in great hands."

Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence, TUF. About a week before you said, "I"m not worried about progressive, Daytona, etc. because I know, if elected, they would all be good presidents and have been productive members of the site." An interesting flip-flop. Granted, I still like TUF and this doesn"t change that, nor is this the reason that I left, but I would be lying if I told you that this didn"t feel like a knife in the back.

Then there"s the Mikal and Airmax interview. It"s funny, because back then Mikal considered me a "serious candidate," but since has backtracked " yes, I saw your video where you claim that "blade was the first serious candidate." People were messaging me saying that I had a chance because I had "Mikal"s endorsement," even though I didn"t. Well, Airmax shot the idea down immediately. So much for that.

And there are plenty of others who wouldn"t even entertain the idea, and thought, I guess, that I was completely BS"ing you in declaring. If I"m unserious, I have to be trolling you, right?

So that"s the main reason I left. Certainly there are a few others " flame wars; being excluded from fan fics and even having my name removed from the interview list; my good friend, jifpop, being banned when there are plenty of others more deserving who haven't received the slightest slap on the wrist, etc.

Finally, the relevant part of this post: I am endorsing larztheloser for president. He has the most experience with Juggle, and I truly think if you want to see more than idealistic philos
progressivedem22
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5/14/2014 7:41:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
And..as per usual, the last bit was cut off. Ok, let me just finish that endorsement:

Larz has the most experience with Juggle and is actually capable of achieving progress on this site. I think if you want to see more than idealistic philosophizing, he's your guy. I also really appreciate his integrity. When asked last night about coding, for instance -- yes, I watched the town hall -- he admitted that Juggle isn't interested in that aspect. It's a stunning admission, and I can really respect him for admitting that.

Another note that I have to include since I ran out of character space:

I'm not angry. I harbor no ill will toward anyone, even the people I didn't name who contributed quite heavily to me opting to leave. My only complaint is this: if you didn't want me to be president, tell me. Vote against me, do whatever. But stating that I'm "not serious" and must be attempting to pull the wool over your eyes? That's an attack on my integrity, and quite honestly, I don't appreciate it.

NOW, this is my final goodbye.

~Paul
ESocialBookworm
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5/14/2014 7:45:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 7:37:22 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Well, this has been a long time in the making, so I felt as though I had to get this off my chest. I should note that I only reactivated to post this: this isn"t a time to proclaim, "See! He wasn"t even serious about leaving!"


I tried to send you a message but it didn't go through. If you read this, PM me ASAP. I need to talk to you PLEAAASSSEEE!!!
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
ClassicRobert
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5/14/2014 7:53:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 7:37:22 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Quick, message me your email or a link to your facebook. I still want to debate you.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

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Romanii
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5/14/2014 8:03:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
@progressivedem:

It was nice of you to come back with a detailed explanation of why you are leaving. Hopefully it will call attention to some of the problems with the site, which I assume was your intention in writing this.

I definitely concur with your assessment of what one of the primary problems with this site is.
New member outreach is extremely lacking on DDO, and the hierarchy that has been built in around here certainly does have the tendency to exclude. Only after 6 months of active participation in the forums am I, myself, finally feeling sort of included in the community.
I'm sure that we have unknowingly lost quite a few potential whiteflames, progressivedems, and kbubs to this problem.

The best of luck to you in life, progressivedem.
I apologize on behalf of the site for all the times you may have felt excluded.
Good bye :'(
ESocialBookworm
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5/14/2014 8:14:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 7:53:56 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:37:22 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Quick, message me your email or a link to your facebook. I still want to debate you.

lol smh
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
TUF
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5/14/2014 9:18:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 7:37:22 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Case in point? And I acknowledge that this is the part of this piece that I was least looking forward to writing, but it has to be said. TUF passed the mantle to blade not long ago. In announcing that he wasn"t running for president, he said something to the effect of "with blade having declared, I know this site will be left in great hands."

woah woah woah, hold up. There's been a mis-understanding. I can definitely see where you interpreted that meaning out of that; I guess I wasn't thinking properly when I wrote that out. I wasn't meaning to say that I didn't think the site would be in good hands if you were elected. It was more of my stating approval of blade running making an additional great candidate; The comment was not meant to isolate any of the other candidates and say that they were the opposite. Specifically blade had just barely posted his platform, so mentioning him was a little more relevant at the time.

Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence, TUF. About a week before you said, "I"m not worried about progressive, Daytona, etc. because I know, if elected, they would all be good presidents and have been productive members of the site." An interesting flip-flop.

Those words still hold true, from my experience of you I don't think the site would be in bad hands if you were elected.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
bladerunner060
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5/14/2014 1:38:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm tempted to go point by point with a lot of your post, but considering you've left I wager it will be overall counter-productive (I most certainly don't think I'm "ordained" in any sense whatsoever, and I would like to point out that if you come back to post things after saying you have left, it is perfectly proper to point out that, by definition, you didn't "really" leave. Whether you have "really" done so now, or not, it's still a legit point. But I digress...).

I see this sort of thing too much:

At 5/14/2014 7:37:22 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
and, ironically, that was a classic example of a personal attack, but I suppose rules don"t apply to some people.

First off, I'm not going to comment about whether it WAS a personal attack (I think we'd all have to see it in context to know that). But more importantly: As a general rule, and as explicitly stated in that policy, you would have to report the post and complaint to the moderator to get them to step in. That's not ALWAYS the case, since they reserve the right to step in if they want to, but complaints like these seem to me to fundamentally misunderstand how airmax operates. I don't presume to speak for him, but for the most part he only steps in when something's an issue, so either when it's super obvious that there's a problem, or when someone brings it to his attention. He doesn't go trawling through the forums for every mean post anybody might leave--some people don't think it worth reporting, and if they don't report it, he's unlikely to intervene.

Think of it this way:

My buddy punches me. He's drunk, and we're friends, and he didn't mean it. I don't call the cops.

Your buddy punches you. You have no patience for him, and really, he's not your buddy, so you report him to the cops.

Does that mean that the rules are "different" for my buddy? No. I could have filed a report and gotten him arrested, I chose not to. I don't get to complain that the cops were not omniscient later, when I see YOUR buddy going to jail.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Crescendo
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5/14/2014 1:51:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm sorry for making you one of the four main villains in my fanfic, but it wasn't meant as an attack on your character. And since I've already started on it, it's too late to change it...
My View of the World:
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Crescendo
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5/14/2014 1:59:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 7:41:35 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
And..as per usual, the last bit was cut off. Ok, let me just finish that endorsement:

Larz has the most experience with Juggle and is actually capable of achieving progress on this site. I think if you want to see more than idealistic philosophizing, he's your guy. I also really appreciate his integrity. When asked last night about coding, for instance -- yes, I watched the town hall -- he admitted that Juggle isn't interested in that aspect. It's a stunning admission, and I can really respect him for admitting that.


Another note that I have to include since I ran out of character space:

I'm not angry. I harbor no ill will toward anyone, even the people I didn't name who contributed quite heavily to me opting to leave. My only complaint is this: if you didn't want me to be president, tell me. Vote against me, do whatever. But stating that I'm "not serious" and must be attempting to pull the wool over your eyes? That's an attack on my integrity, and quite honestly, I don't appreciate it.


NOW, this is my final goodbye.

~Paul

It'd be strange to accept the founder of Edeb8, DDO's only serious competition, as president of this Site. That'd be kind of having a Soviet Premiere (or whatever they were called) being elected President of the United States during the Cold War.
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Mikal
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5/14/2014 2:01:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Just a note when I said blade was the first serious candidate in my video, it was from the standpoint as of this moment. You left the site, daytona dropped out. At the point when I was making this there was only jif who had declared he was running, and was banned. So blades announcement at the time made him the first viable candidate who was running at that point.

I still think you would make a great president after you attain more experience on the site

will miss you buddy
bluesteel
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5/14/2014 2:22:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 8:03:44 AM, Romanii wrote:
@progressivedem:

It was nice of you to come back with a detailed explanation of why you are leaving. Hopefully it will call attention to some of the problems with the site, which I assume was your intention in writing this.

I definitely concur with your assessment of what one of the primary problems with this site is.
New member outreach is extremely lacking on DDO, and the hierarchy that has been built in around here certainly does have the tendency to exclude. Only after 6 months of active participation in the forums am I, myself, finally feeling sort of included in the community.

What would make you feel more included?

I like you and our interactions in the AMA threads were fun. But it's not easy to socialize on here; i've grown closest to the people I talk to off the site the most (or in PM's on the site).
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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5/14/2014 2:50:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 2:22:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:03:44 AM, Romanii wrote:
@progressivedem:

It was nice of you to come back with a detailed explanation of why you are leaving. Hopefully it will call attention to some of the problems with the site, which I assume was your intention in writing this.

I definitely concur with your assessment of what one of the primary problems with this site is.
New member outreach is extremely lacking on DDO, and the hierarchy that has been built in around here certainly does have the tendency to exclude. Only after 6 months of active participation in the forums am I, myself, finally feeling sort of included in the community.

What would make you feel more included?

I like you and our interactions in the AMA threads were fun. But it's not easy to socialize on here; i've grown closest to the people I talk to off the site the most (or in PM's on the site).

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

we need to catch up friday

after they actually let me off work :( my hand is almost where it can type again so ill be more active soon
bluesteel
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5/14/2014 3:00:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 2:50:56 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 5/14/2014 2:22:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:03:44 AM, Romanii wrote:
@progressivedem:

It was nice of you to come back with a detailed explanation of why you are leaving. Hopefully it will call attention to some of the problems with the site, which I assume was your intention in writing this.

I definitely concur with your assessment of what one of the primary problems with this site is.
New member outreach is extremely lacking on DDO, and the hierarchy that has been built in around here certainly does have the tendency to exclude. Only after 6 months of active participation in the forums am I, myself, finally feeling sort of included in the community.

What would make you feel more included?

I like you and our interactions in the AMA threads were fun. But it's not easy to socialize on here; i've grown closest to the people I talk to off the site the most (or in PM's on the site).

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

we need to catch up friday

after they actually let me off work :( my hand is almost where it can type again so ill be more active soon

nniiiiice :)

i'll be busy til friday anyway working on a paper for journal and settling in to my new place

still owe YYW a topic too; gotta look into that. unless you want to debate him first for the gauntlet. or try to find raisor... hope that guy is okay
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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5/14/2014 5:15:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 5:14:20 PM, Bullish wrote:
TUF and daytona both dropped out? I gotta catch up on my DDO drama.

Dyslexia.
0x5f3759df
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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5/14/2014 7:22:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I normally don't want to get involved, but to those saying that Larz has a better relationship with Juggle and so is more likely to get things done, I just got to put this out as a reminder.

http://www.debate.org...
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
YYW
Posts: 36,240
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5/14/2014 7:33:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 7:22:50 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I normally don't want to get involved, but to those saying that Larz has a better relationship with Juggle and so is more likely to get things done, I just got to put this out as a reminder.

http://www.debate.org...

Well, it's relevant and something that voters should be aware of. That's not to disparage Larz so much as it is to gain a fuller picture of what's at stake.
Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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5/14/2014 8:01:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 7:22:50 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I normally don't want to get involved, but to those saying that Larz has a better relationship with Juggle and so is more likely to get things done, I just got to put this out as a reminder.

http://www.debate.org...

I read the whole thing... doesn't influence my opinion of him much. Looks like he was just trying to help and got over-eager.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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5/14/2014 8:09:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 8:01:00 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:22:50 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I normally don't want to get involved, but to those saying that Larz has a better relationship with Juggle and so is more likely to get things done, I just got to put this out as a reminder.

http://www.debate.org...

I read the whole thing... doesn't influence my opinion of him much. Looks like he was just trying to help and got over-eager.

I agree with your assessment, i.e. that it seems as if there was no ill-intent on Larz's part and that he was simply a bit overzealous.

However, if a President choose to bypass Juggle instead of working with them, it will be difficult to cultivate an effective and amicable relationship with Juggle. Ultimately, while Juggle may be frustrating and slow to act, if we react overeagerly or rashly, we could end up damaging an important relationship.

I think the President should be someone a bit more deliberative...some one in Airmax's vein. I think Blade fits that description (deliberative, calm, collected) well. I think Larz may have a proclivity to be a bit too assertive, if that makes sense. Juggle is an oft-annoying, but always critical partner, and it is important to display patience while working with them in order to keep things going as smoothly as possible.
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YYW
Posts: 36,240
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5/14/2014 8:10:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 3:00:49 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 5/14/2014 2:50:56 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 5/14/2014 2:22:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:03:44 AM, Romanii wrote:
@progressivedem:

It was nice of you to come back with a detailed explanation of why you are leaving. Hopefully it will call attention to some of the problems with the site, which I assume was your intention in writing this.

I definitely concur with your assessment of what one of the primary problems with this site is.
New member outreach is extremely lacking on DDO, and the hierarchy that has been built in around here certainly does have the tendency to exclude. Only after 6 months of active participation in the forums am I, myself, finally feeling sort of included in the community.

What would make you feel more included?

I like you and our interactions in the AMA threads were fun. But it's not easy to socialize on here; i've grown closest to the people I talk to off the site the most (or in PM's on the site).

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

we need to catch up friday

after they actually let me off work :( my hand is almost where it can type again so ill be more active soon

nniiiiice :)

i'll be busy til friday anyway working on a paper for journal and settling in to my new place

still owe YYW a topic too; gotta look into that. unless you want to debate him first for the gauntlet. or try to find raisor... hope that guy is okay

What's the paper about?
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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5/14/2014 8:19:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 8:10:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/14/2014 3:00:49 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 5/14/2014 2:50:56 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 5/14/2014 2:22:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:03:44 AM, Romanii wrote:
@progressivedem:

It was nice of you to come back with a detailed explanation of why you are leaving. Hopefully it will call attention to some of the problems with the site, which I assume was your intention in writing this.

I definitely concur with your assessment of what one of the primary problems with this site is.
New member outreach is extremely lacking on DDO, and the hierarchy that has been built in around here certainly does have the tendency to exclude. Only after 6 months of active participation in the forums am I, myself, finally feeling sort of included in the community.

What would make you feel more included?

I like you and our interactions in the AMA threads were fun. But it's not easy to socialize on here; i've grown closest to the people I talk to off the site the most (or in PM's on the site).

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

we need to catch up friday

after they actually let me off work :( my hand is almost where it can type again so ill be more active soon

nniiiiice :)

i'll be busy til friday anyway working on a paper for journal and settling in to my new place

still owe YYW a topic too; gotta look into that. unless you want to debate him first for the gauntlet. or try to find raisor... hope that guy is okay

What's the paper about?

tax law and the cloud; i'm just editing it, not writing it.

i wrote two papers though that are getting published; i'll discuss them via pm with you if you want.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
larztheloser
Posts: 857
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5/14/2014 8:20:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 8:09:29 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:01:00 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:22:50 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I normally don't want to get involved, but to those saying that Larz has a better relationship with Juggle and so is more likely to get things done, I just got to put this out as a reminder.

http://www.debate.org...

I read the whole thing... doesn't influence my opinion of him much. Looks like he was just trying to help and got over-eager.

I agree with your assessment, i.e. that it seems as if there was no ill-intent on Larz's part and that he was simply a bit overzealous.

However, if a President choose to bypass Juggle instead of working with them, it will be difficult to cultivate an effective and amicable relationship with Juggle. Ultimately, while Juggle may be frustrating and slow to act, if we react overeagerly or rashly, we could end up damaging an important relationship.

I think the President should be someone a bit more deliberative...some one in Airmax's vein. I think Blade fits that description (deliberative, calm, collected) well. I think Larz may have a proclivity to be a bit too assertive, if that makes sense. Juggle is an oft-annoying, but always critical partner, and it is important to display patience while working with them in order to keep things going as smoothly as possible.

I just want to make this 100% clear - my annoyance here was NOT with Juggle. Juggle apologized to me after the incident and approved the work that I had done. My annoyance was with the community, and how they had made up a scandal that hurt me deeply and personally.

I expected much more maturity from a moderator than to make this implication. If Ore Ele did not know that this was the case then it's Airmax's fault too. I DID NOT BYPASS JUGGLE. I WAS NOT RASH. THESE WERE FALSE RUMORS SPREAD ABOUT ME IN THE FORUMS. And I was not overzealous. The only thing that went wrong is that Airmax overstepped his authority and made up a new rule retrospectively to bully me because he did not want me, in his own words, to help improve voting, and threatened to ban me from the site. It was that incident, which made me massively depressive for at least a month, which this post of mine concerned.
larztheloser
Posts: 857
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5/14/2014 8:24:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
NB - I actually addressed these very things in my platform, and I told the community that I expected them to show a little more maturity this time around. Looks like my hope was misplaced. I think it's sad that a moderator should have been responsible for that.
YYW
Posts: 36,240
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5/14/2014 8:24:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 8:20:28 PM, larztheloser wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:09:29 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:01:00 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:22:50 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I normally don't want to get involved, but to those saying that Larz has a better relationship with Juggle and so is more likely to get things done, I just got to put this out as a reminder.

http://www.debate.org...

I read the whole thing... doesn't influence my opinion of him much. Looks like he was just trying to help and got over-eager.

I agree with your assessment, i.e. that it seems as if there was no ill-intent on Larz's part and that he was simply a bit overzealous.

However, if a President choose to bypass Juggle instead of working with them, it will be difficult to cultivate an effective and amicable relationship with Juggle. Ultimately, while Juggle may be frustrating and slow to act, if we react overeagerly or rashly, we could end up damaging an important relationship.

I think the President should be someone a bit more deliberative...some one in Airmax's vein. I think Blade fits that description (deliberative, calm, collected) well. I think Larz may have a proclivity to be a bit too assertive, if that makes sense. Juggle is an oft-annoying, but always critical partner, and it is important to display patience while working with them in order to keep things going as smoothly as possible.

I just want to make this 100% clear - my annoyance here was NOT with Juggle. Juggle apologized to me after the incident and approved the work that I had done. My annoyance was with the community, and how they had made up a scandal that hurt me deeply and personally.

I expected much more maturity from a moderator than to make this implication. If Ore Ele did not know that this was the case then it's Airmax's fault too. I DID NOT BYPASS JUGGLE. I WAS NOT RASH. THESE WERE FALSE RUMORS SPREAD ABOUT ME IN THE FORUMS. And I was not overzealous. The only thing that went wrong is that Airmax overstepped his authority and made up a new rule retrospectively to bully me because he did not want me, in his own words, to help improve voting, and threatened to ban me from the site. It was that incident, which made me massively depressive for at least a month, which this post of mine concerned.

I was Airmax's Chief of Staff when this was all going down. Airmax did not overstep his authority, nor did he make up a new rule, nor were you bullied and the only reason you were told that if you took certain actions that you would be banned was because you were 'literally' trying to defy Juggle's directives about how you could use their property.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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5/14/2014 8:26:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 8:20:28 PM, larztheloser wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:09:29 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:01:00 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:22:50 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I normally don't want to get involved, but to those saying that Larz has a better relationship with Juggle and so is more likely to get things done, I just got to put this out as a reminder.

http://www.debate.org...

I read the whole thing... doesn't influence my opinion of him much. Looks like he was just trying to help and got over-eager.

I agree with your assessment, i.e. that it seems as if there was no ill-intent on Larz's part and that he was simply a bit overzealous.

However, if a President choose to bypass Juggle instead of working with them, it will be difficult to cultivate an effective and amicable relationship with Juggle. Ultimately, while Juggle may be frustrating and slow to act, if we react overeagerly or rashly, we could end up damaging an important relationship.

I think the President should be someone a bit more deliberative...some one in Airmax's vein. I think Blade fits that description (deliberative, calm, collected) well. I think Larz may have a proclivity to be a bit too assertive, if that makes sense. Juggle is an oft-annoying, but always critical partner, and it is important to display patience while working with them in order to keep things going as smoothly as possible.

I just want to make this 100% clear - my annoyance here was NOT with Juggle. Juggle apologized to me after the incident and approved the work that I had done. My annoyance was with the community, and how they had made up a scandal that hurt me deeply and personally.

As I was not there at the time, I can only speak to what I've gleaned elsewhere. I would be interested to hear your perspective on the events, if you are willing to discuss that here (or in a PM).

I certainly apologize if I brought up any old wounds.
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YYW
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5/14/2014 8:26:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 8:19:31 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:10:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/14/2014 3:00:49 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 5/14/2014 2:50:56 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 5/14/2014 2:22:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:03:44 AM, Romanii wrote:
@progressivedem:

It was nice of you to come back with a detailed explanation of why you are leaving. Hopefully it will call attention to some of the problems with the site, which I assume was your intention in writing this.

I definitely concur with your assessment of what one of the primary problems with this site is.
New member outreach is extremely lacking on DDO, and the hierarchy that has been built in around here certainly does have the tendency to exclude. Only after 6 months of active participation in the forums am I, myself, finally feeling sort of included in the community.

What would make you feel more included?

I like you and our interactions in the AMA threads were fun. But it's not easy to socialize on here; i've grown closest to the people I talk to off the site the most (or in PM's on the site).

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

we need to catch up friday

after they actually let me off work :( my hand is almost where it can type again so ill be more active soon

nniiiiice :)

i'll be busy til friday anyway working on a paper for journal and settling in to my new place

still owe YYW a topic too; gotta look into that. unless you want to debate him first for the gauntlet. or try to find raisor... hope that guy is okay

What's the paper about?

tax law and the cloud; i'm just editing it, not writing it.

i wrote two papers though that are getting published; i'll discuss them via pm with you if you want.

Sure. We might find a debate resolution in that...