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Advice for debates

Jman0056
Posts: 7
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5/20/2014 9:38:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would consider myself a "noob" to DDO ediquet so if somebody could catch me up on how to be a good, fair debater and some tips, that would help. Thx.
I forgot a signature
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/20/2014 9:53:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 9:38:11 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
I would consider myself a "noob" to DDO ediquet so if somebody could catch me up on how to be a good, fair debater and some tips, that would help. Thx.

I've asked for advice so many times, and been ignored it's not funny. The best thing to do is to do what you can to learn formal and informal logic 101 and than take to heart all advice you get on the RFD's from every plus 3,000 ELO voter.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,121
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5/20/2014 10:00:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Pro tip: Don't suck.

On a serious note, a good way to get better at making arguments is to make well-structured argument. A well-structured argument pretty much looks like this:

Claim - The argument you want to make. For example, a claim could be that abortion is unethical because the fetus is a life.

Warrant - The evidence behind your claim. This is where you explain why a fetus is a life.

Impact - Why your claim actually matters. This is a part that a lot of people, including myself, tend to forget when they're writing their arguments. You have to explain why your claim actually matters in terms of the debate. This is where you could say like if the fetus counted as a life, then it would be murder to kill it, and thus unethical.

Do that and it gets pretty easy to make arguments.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/20/2014 10:03:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 9:38:11 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
I would consider myself a "noob" to DDO ediquet so if somebody could catch me up on how to be a good, fair debater and some tips, that would help. Thx.

You need to pick better topics. The Chuck Norriss one could actually get you killed.

Frozen was the greatest movie of all time so WTF!!!!!!!!

And Man if Steel sucked.
Jman0056
Posts: 7
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5/20/2014 10:13:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Alright, wylted. I didn't realize the chuck norris thing would hurt me that badly. Thats why i put it under the catagory of "funny"

I just honestly didn't think Frozen was all that great.

And NO. Man of Steel did NOT suck. Infact it was very good. You shoul read the debate about it. Thx 4 the advice though.
I forgot a signature
Subutai
Posts: 3,139
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5/20/2014 10:17:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 10:14:29 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
And also, what does ELO and RDF stand for

ELO is the rating system used to rate debaters based on their position and the quality of the opponent. RFD is short for reasons for decision. You use RFDs to justify the votes you make on debates.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,121
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5/20/2014 10:18:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 10:14:29 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
And also, what does ELO and RDF stand for

ELO is just a rating meter that ranks people according to, in a perfect world, how good of a debater they are. It really doesn't work that way though, so it's not something to really pay attention to.

RFD stands for Reason for Decision, basically why you voted the way you did.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Subutai
Posts: 3,139
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5/20/2014 10:19:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The first step toward making good arguments is having a structure. You need to prove a strong claim, or what you are arguing for, and then provide a few distinct arguments showing the validity of that claim using evidence, and arriving back to the claim with reasoning. The evidence depends on the subject your claim is in, and can either be pure philosophical argument or studies.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
Jman0056
Posts: 7
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5/20/2014 10:34:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 10:03:34 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/20/2014 9:38:11 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
I would consider myself a "noob" to DDO ediquet so if somebody could catch me up on how to be a good, fair debater and some tips, that would help. Thx.

You need to pick better topics. The Chuck Norriss one could actually get you killed.

Frozen was the greatest movie of all time so WTF!!!!!!!!

And Man if Steel sucked.

And actualy these, Wylted, maybe not the chuck Norris one, but these ARE good debate topics. I KNEW i was going to have some one who would absolutly a pose me. And beable to legitimatly justify there reasoning.
I forgot a signature
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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5/20/2014 11:30:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 9:38:11 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
I would consider myself a "noob" to DDO ediquet so if somebody could catch me up on how to be a good, fair debater and some tips, that would help. Thx.

Know your facts and consider how the other person could attack your argument. You aren't just attacking the opposing argument, but you are trying to do it in such a manner that leaves little opening for a counter attack.

A good argument that is presented poorly ends up being easy to dismiss. You then spend the rest of the debate trying to shore it back up, instead of attacking the weaknesses in your opponent's position.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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5/20/2014 11:34:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 9:38:11 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
I would consider myself a "noob" to DDO ediquet so if somebody could catch me up on how to be a good, fair debater and some tips, that would help. Thx.

That's a really broad question, so it's hard to answer. But I'll tell you some things I wish more people would do.

1. When you initiate a debate, you should explicitly stipulate where the burden of proof lies. For example, let's say the resolution of the debate is, "Pizza is round." If the burden of proof is on Pro, but not Con, then Pro has to offer arguments showing that Pizza is round, and Con has to refute Pro's arguments, but Con does not have to make arguments showing that Pizza is NOT round. However, if the burden of proof is shared, then Con would also have to show that Pizza is NOT round. Stipulating the burden of proof has two advantages: (1) it avoids disputes over who has what burden of proof, and (2) it informs the voters how to judge the debate.

2. Make clear resolutions. Make sure your resolution is a clear coherent sentence, and not simply a word like, "Abortion." It should be, "Abortion ought to be legal," or "Abortion is immoral," or something like that. Your resolution can also take the form of a question, like, "Should abortion be legal?"

3. Define your terms. You don't have to get crazy and define every term in your resolution statement, but you should at least define any terms that you think could have more than one meaning. The purpose is to avoid misunderstandings and debates over semantics. Defining your terms enhances the clarity of your resolution. People want to know exactly what your point of view is because they can't argue with you unless they do.

4. Avoid irrelevant conversation. This includes rabbit trails, diversions, red herrings, unnecessary explanations, side notes, etc. These sorts of things make it difficult for other people to follow your train of thought and to know exactly what your argument is. It also wastes space.

5. Use credible sources. A credible source is like somebody who is an expert on the subject you're citing them on. For example, if you're making a statement about cosmology, you want your source to be a PhD in physics or cosmology. Avoid using Wikipedia. Although not necessarily unreliable, it's questionable enough for most voters that using it is risky.

6. Organize your arguments. Think of the arguments you want to use and separate the different arguments in paragraphs. Think about the conclusions you want to draw and the premises (i.e. reasons) for your conclusions. Organize them in such a way that your train of thought is clear, and people can easily tell how you got to your conclusion from your premises. This is the most important part of a debate. You'll improve as you go along, but I'd highly recommend this book to get started:

http://www.amazon.com...

It's short, easy to understand, and it covers logic, logical fallacies, and how to construct argumentative paragraphs.

7. Don't neglect to respond to your opponent's arguments. Sometimes, when the burden of proof is shared, each side will give arguments for their own point of view, but they'll ignore the other person's arguments. Make sure you give some kind of response to each argument your opponent makes. You don't necessarily have to do that in your opening (depending on the stipulated structure of the debate), but you definitely want to do it in the rebuttals.

8. Avoid motive-mongering. That's when you attribute sinister motives on the part of your opponent. For example, people sometimes accuse their opponent of being dishonest or intentionally misrepresenting somebody else's view, when it's always possible their opponent had a genuine misunderstanding. The charitable thing to do is give your opponent the benefit of the doubt.

9. Be civil and respectful. Name calling, ridicule, and condescending remarks may be rhetorically effective to an unsophisticated audience, but you should rise above that because if you do, intelligent and mature people will recognize it, and they will respect you for it. Conversations and debates would be more productive if we all behaved civilly and respectfully toward people we disagree with, so even if others don't pay you that compliment, you should take the high road. Be the kind of person the world would be better off having around.

10. Spell check your material. DDO has a built in spell check feature, which makes this easy. You can lose points on spelling and grammar if you don't proof read.

11. Don't intentionally misrepresent your opponent's view. And don't be lazy about trying to make sure you understand their view. Read what they say carefully. Sometimes, the flaws in their arguments are more evident when you read them carefully. If there are ambiguities about what your opponent says, bring them up. You can handle them in a number of ways. You can say, "I don't understand what he's saying, so I can't respond," or you can say, "I'm not sure what he means, but I think he means this, and this is my response"" That last sentence will help you avoid your opponent accusing you of committing the straw man fallacy in case you misunderstood him.

12. Get a feel for who the really good debaters are and read their debates.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/20/2014 11:35:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 11:32:38 PM, Mikal wrote:
ask this girl

[1] http://www.debate.org...

You forgot to add, and then do the opposite, haha. She's actually better than her ELO. Most the people coming in at 2,000 are worse than her.
Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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5/20/2014 11:36:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 11:35:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/20/2014 11:32:38 PM, Mikal wrote:
ask this girl

[1] http://www.debate.org...

You forgot to add, and then do the opposite, haha. She's actually better than her ELO. Most the people coming in at 2,000 are worse than her.

she is amazing, did you ever read her debate about mind controlling clowns that rape teenagers?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/20/2014 11:41:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 11:36:36 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 5/20/2014 11:35:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/20/2014 11:32:38 PM, Mikal wrote:
ask this girl

[1] http://www.debate.org...

You forgot to add, and then do the opposite, haha. She's actually better than her ELO. Most the people coming in at 2,000 are worse than her.

she is amazing, did you ever read her debate about mind controlling clowns that rape teenagers?

That definitely sounds interesting. I'm going to look for it right now.
Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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5/20/2014 11:43:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 11:41:51 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/20/2014 11:36:36 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 5/20/2014 11:35:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/20/2014 11:32:38 PM, Mikal wrote:
ask this girl

[1] http://www.debate.org...

You forgot to add, and then do the opposite, haha. She's actually better than her ELO. Most the people coming in at 2,000 are worse than her.

she is amazing, did you ever read her debate about mind controlling clowns that rape teenagers?

That definitely sounds interesting. I'm going to look for it right now.

that was totally sarcasm, but if you find it and link me to it i will buy you a cookie
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/20/2014 11:53:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 11:43:47 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 5/20/2014 11:41:51 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/20/2014 11:36:36 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 5/20/2014 11:35:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/20/2014 11:32:38 PM, Mikal wrote:
ask this girl

[1] http://www.debate.org...

You forgot to add, and then do the opposite, haha. She's actually better than her ELO. Most the people coming in at 2,000 are worse than her.

she is amazing, did you ever read her debate about mind controlling clowns that rape teenagers?


That definitely sounds interesting. I'm going to look for it right now.

that was totally sarcasm, but if you find it and link me to it i will buy you a cookie

Dang it. I just looked through the last 2 years if her debates looking for it. I'm glad you told me before I got through all 6 years.

I love cookies, though.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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5/21/2014 1:56:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Stay calm. Avoid looking at problems emotionally or letting them spur an emotional response. Cold logic is the most surefire way to destroy an argument--logos over ethos or pathos.

Good luck on your debates!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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5/21/2014 11:20:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 11:30:26 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/20/2014 9:38:11 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
I would consider myself a "noob" to DDO ediquet so if somebody could catch me up on how to be a good, fair debater and some tips, that would help. Thx.

Know your facts and consider how the other person could attack your argument. You aren't just attacking the opposing argument, but you are trying to do it in such a manner that leaves little opening for a counter attack.

A good argument that is presented poorly ends up being easy to dismiss. You then spend the rest of the debate trying to shore it back up, instead of attacking the weaknesses in your opponent's position.

I agree that structuring an argument well and putting all the pieces together in a logical fashion is beneficial, but there is a line that shouldn't be crossed in that direction as well. I've known a good number of debaters who have tried to structure what they believed to be an unassailable argument that was absolutely airtight, and what you learn quickly is that that type of argument doesn't exist. There is no perfect argument, and the moment you think that there isn't a good response that anyone could engineer is the moment that someone's going to prove you wrong.

So do everything Georgeer said here, he's entirely right, but it's not a bad thing to present an argument that has some easy points of attack, you just don't want them to be basic structural issues or a lack of explanation. I find that the best debaters I've watched have made suspect arguments just to draw their opponents towards a specific rebuttal so that they could capitalize on it.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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5/21/2014 11:29:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Read the Tutorial and DDO Orientation threads permanently linked at the start of this forum. That will get you started as well as anything.

When debating a popular topic, look up past debates on the topic to understand the common arguments and rebuttals. Don't debate topics about which you are poorly informed.

Elo is a man's name, not an acronym. There is a Wikipedia article on how it is computed. It gives more weight to beating an opponent who has a past winning record. The system was devised to rank chess players.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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5/21/2014 11:44:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 11:20:15 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 5/20/2014 11:30:26 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/20/2014 9:38:11 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
I would consider myself a "noob" to DDO etiquette so if somebody could catch me up on how to be a good, fair debater and some tips, that would help. Thx.

Know your facts and consider how the other person could attack your argument. You aren't just attacking the opposing argument, but you are trying to do it in such a manner that leaves little opening for a counter attack.

A good argument that is presented poorly ends up being easy to dismiss. You then spend the rest of the debate trying to shore it back up, instead of attacking the weaknesses in your opponent's position.

I agree that structuring an argument well and putting all the pieces together in a logical fashion is beneficial, but there is a line that shouldn't be crossed in that direction as well. I've known a good number of debaters who have tried to structure what they believed to be an unassailable argument that was absolutely airtight, and what you learn quickly is that that type of argument doesn't exist. There is no perfect argument, and the moment you think that there isn't a good response that anyone could engineer is the moment that someone's going to prove you wrong.

So do everything Georgeer said here, he's entirely right, but it's not a bad thing to present an argument that has some easy points of attack, you just don't want them to be basic structural issues or a lack of explanation. I find that the best debaters I've watched have made suspect arguments just to draw their opponents towards a specific rebuttal so that they could capitalize on it.

I completely agree that there is no unassailable argument. Perhaps I phrased myself poorly. Be concise with your argument and make sure that it says exactly what you mean. Let's show an example (examples always clarify):

The unborn are members of the homo sapiens species.
Unborn babies are persons too.

The first one states a premise that you can back up with facts. The second one is going to completely divert the debate. First they will argue that babies is a term denoting a stage after birth. Your opponent will then bring up the issue that personhood is a legal definition recognized at birth or some such thing. This will make the entire debate about personhood which is a much more nebulous or malleable concept in the minds of most voters.

Now, if you actually want to debate personhood or whether the unborn are babies, that is fine. However, you have to be prepared for it to take that track.
YYW
Posts: 36,240
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5/21/2014 11:45:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 9:38:11 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
I would consider myself a "noob" to DDO ediquet so if somebody could catch me up on how to be a good, fair debater and some tips, that would help. Thx.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When writing arguments, structure them in this way:

Premise/claim - The idea you're trying to convince me of
Evidence/warrant - Reasons in support of that claim
Conclusion/impact - Why I should care as a judge

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Formatting:

Resolved: Justin Bieber is a terrible person.

[Introduction]

Today, I am burdened to prove that Justin Bieber is a terrible person, and I suggest three criteria that make JB terrible: tattoos, insulting Bill Clinton and being arrested for a DUI. Only terrible people would do those things, and JB's done all of them. Therefore, I will prove that he's terrible.

1. People who have tattoos are terrible people.

Justin Bibber has tattoos. (1) Therefore he is a terrible people.

2. Only a terrible person could insult Bill Clinton.

Justin Bieber shouted "Fvck Bill Clinton!" (2) We can deduce from this that he is terrible.

3. All people who get arrested for DUI's in Miami are terrible.

Justin Bieber was arrested for a DUI in Miami. (3) He's clearly terrible.

[Conclusion]

Today, I was burdened to prove that Justin Bieber is a terrible person, and I suggested three criteria that make JB terrible: tattoos, insulting Bill Clinton and being arrested for a DUI. I've offered evidence demonstrating that JB's done all of these things, so he must be terrible. Please affirm.

---

Sources:
(1) http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net... The tattoos are also ugly.
(2) http://celebs.answers.com...
(3) http://www.tmz.com...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When rebutting arguments, respond to the general point your opponent was making and refute the precise idea that your opponent was making. Be scrupulously careful to not misstate your opponent's point.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Realize that debate is an exercise of persuasion before it is an exercise of anything else, and do so with the understanding that (1) some judges are not persuadable, (2) many judges cast votes for arbitrary reasons even if their RFD would appear to suggest otherwise and that (3) very few people vote on debates as a technical indication of victory. The value in doing this is learning how to overcome people's personal ideas to win them to your way of thinking. Sometimes facts do that, sometimes emotional appeals do it and sometimes appeals to sources of authority do it. It just depends on the person.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do a lot of research about whatever you're debating about and know what you're talking about. Be precise, be accurate, do not overstate or understate the evidence you derive from sources. Edit debates before posting them.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ask a lot of people to vote on your debates, even if you think you know how they're going to vote before you do. Realize that some of the best debaters are also the worst judges because unconsciously they penalize other debaters for not arguing cases the way they would have. Don't take it personally, because it's not. It's about them, not you.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Debate about stuff that interests you and that you'd like to learn more about. Don't waste time on nonsense.
whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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5/21/2014 11:46:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 11:44:52 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/21/2014 11:20:15 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 5/20/2014 11:30:26 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/20/2014 9:38:11 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
I would consider myself a "noob" to DDO etiquette so if somebody could catch me up on how to be a good, fair debater and some tips, that would help. Thx.

Know your facts and consider how the other person could attack your argument. You aren't just attacking the opposing argument, but you are trying to do it in such a manner that leaves little opening for a counter attack.

A good argument that is presented poorly ends up being easy to dismiss. You then spend the rest of the debate trying to shore it back up, instead of attacking the weaknesses in your opponent's position.

I agree that structuring an argument well and putting all the pieces together in a logical fashion is beneficial, but there is a line that shouldn't be crossed in that direction as well. I've known a good number of debaters who have tried to structure what they believed to be an unassailable argument that was absolutely airtight, and what you learn quickly is that that type of argument doesn't exist. There is no perfect argument, and the moment you think that there isn't a good response that anyone could engineer is the moment that someone's going to prove you wrong.

So do everything Georgeer said here, he's entirely right, but it's not a bad thing to present an argument that has some easy points of attack, you just don't want them to be basic structural issues or a lack of explanation. I find that the best debaters I've watched have made suspect arguments just to draw their opponents towards a specific rebuttal so that they could capitalize on it.

I completely agree that there is no unassailable argument. Perhaps I phrased myself poorly. Be concise with your argument and make sure that it says exactly what you mean. Let's show an example (examples always clarify):

The unborn are members of the homo sapiens species.
Unborn babies are persons too.

The first one states a premise that you can back up with facts. The second one is going to completely divert the debate. First they will argue that babies is a term denoting a stage after birth. Your opponent will then bring up the issue that personhood is a legal definition recognized at birth or some such thing. This will make the entire debate about personhood which is a much more nebulous or malleable concept in the minds of most voters.

Now, if you actually want to debate personhood or whether the unborn are babies, that is fine. However, you have to be prepared for it to take that track.

That is clearer, but don't worry, you phrased it well the first time, I just wanted to build off of your point.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/21/2014 2:19:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 11:29:00 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
Read the Tutorial and DDO Orientation threads permanently linked at the start of this forum. That will get you started as well as anything.

When debating a popular topic, look up past debates on the topic to understand the common arguments and rebuttals. Don't debate topics about which you are poorly informed.

I disagree with you about not arguing topics you're poorly informed on. I honestly make it a point to avoid topics I'm well informed on. I think debates provide an opportunity and motivation to quickly dive into topics I'm vaguely interested in, yet poorly informed. I'm a quick study and enjoy fully diving into topics and learning about them on the fly.

Every debate I've lost is do to my debating skill and not my lack of knowledge, going into a debate.


Elo is a man's name, not an acronym. There is a Wikipedia article on how it is computed. It gives more weight to beating an opponent who has a past winning record. The system was devised to rank chess players.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/21/2014 2:21:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 9:38:11 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
I would consider myself a "noob" to DDO ediquet so if somebody could catch me up on how to be a good, fair debater and some tips, that would help. Thx.

You'd probably be better served by finding a member who seems as though they're someone you'd get along with and reaching out to them. Asking for just open comments on a relatively vague quest for advice may not be as helpful as making a non-noob friend who can help you out with more specific guidance.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Jman0056
Posts: 7
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5/21/2014 4:11:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 2:21:32 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/20/2014 9:38:11 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
I would consider myself a "noob" to DDO ediquet so if somebody could catch me up on how to be a good, fair debater and some tips, that would help. Thx.

You'd probably be better served by finding a member who seems as though they're someone you'd get along with and reaching out to them. Asking for just open comments on a relatively vague quest for advice may not be as helpful as making a non-noob friend who can help you out with more specific guidance.

Well so far every one has been very helpful
I forgot a signature
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/21/2014 4:13:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 4:11:42 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:21:32 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/20/2014 9:38:11 PM, Jman0056 wrote:
I would consider myself a "noob" to DDO ediquet so if somebody could catch me up on how to be a good, fair debater and some tips, that would help. Thx.

You'd probably be better served by finding a member who seems as though they're someone you'd get along with and reaching out to them. Asking for just open comments on a relatively vague quest for advice may not be as helpful as making a non-noob friend who can help you out with more specific guidance.

Well so far every one has been very helpful

Fair enough!
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!