Total Posts:13|Showing Posts:1-13
Jump to topic:

Vote Strike

Geogeer
Posts: 4,285
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 9:12:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
After my recent discussion on here with Sadolite I've come to the conclusion that there are too many users on this site who are not pulling their weight for the community.

This site works on the basis that the members vote on the debates in order to provide feedback and declare winners. The problem is that we do not have enough people taking the time to vote.

Sadolite wanted to set up a system whereby every debate would receive a minimum 3 votes before a winner is declared. I don't think there is anybody here who would not like that to be true. However, it is not happening because people are not taking the time to vote. Look at your history and if you have not voted on at least 3-5 times the number of debates you have participated in, you are part of the problem.

As such I will not vote for anyone who requests votes in the Post Unvoted Debates Here topic unless:

1) If after 10 debates they have not started to vote
2) if after 15 debates they do not have as many votes as debates
3) if after 20 debates they do not have at least 2x the number of votes as debates
4) and if after 25 debates they do not have at least 3x the number of votes as debates.

I invite all other members to consider this and to look at their own record and determine if they are supporting the site and community as is necessary for it to function properly.

For those of you who do spend your valuable time voting, my sincere thanks.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 9:21:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 9:12:27 PM, Geogeer wrote:
After my recent discussion on here with Sadolite I've come to the conclusion that there are too many users on this site who are not pulling their weight for the community.

This site works on the basis that the members vote on the debates in order to provide feedback and declare winners. The problem is that we do not have enough people taking the time to vote.

Sadolite wanted to set up a system whereby every debate would receive a minimum 3 votes before a winner is declared. I don't think there is anybody here who would not like that to be true. However, it is not happening because people are not taking the time to vote. Look at your history and if you have not voted on at least 3-5 times the number of debates you have participated in, you are part of the problem.

As such I will not vote for anyone who requests votes in the Post Unvoted Debates Here topic unless:

1) If after 10 debates they have not started to vote
2) if after 15 debates they do not have as many votes as debates
3) if after 20 debates they do not have at least 2x the number of votes as debates
4) and if after 25 debates they do not have at least 3x the number of votes as debates.

I invite all other members to consider this and to look at their own record and determine if they are supporting the site and community as is necessary for it to function properly.

For those of you who do spend your valuable time voting, my sincere thanks.

Okay Geogeer. I get what you're saying. I'll fix the problem. Give me 24-48 hours to brain storm this, with other members.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,285
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 9:35:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 9:21:14 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/25/2014 9:12:27 PM, Geogeer wrote:
After my recent discussion on here with Sadolite I've come to the conclusion that there are too many users on this site who are not pulling their weight for the community.

This site works on the basis that the members vote on the debates in order to provide feedback and declare winners. The problem is that we do not have enough people taking the time to vote.

Sadolite wanted to set up a system whereby every debate would receive a minimum 3 votes before a winner is declared. I don't think there is anybody here who would not like that to be true. However, it is not happening because people are not taking the time to vote. Look at your history and if you have not voted on at least 3-5 times the number of debates you have participated in, you are part of the problem.

As such I will not vote for anyone who requests votes in the Post Unvoted Debates Here topic unless:

1) If after 10 debates they have not started to vote
2) if after 15 debates they do not have as many votes as debates
3) if after 20 debates they do not have at least 2x the number of votes as debates
4) and if after 25 debates they do not have at least 3x the number of votes as debates.

I invite all other members to consider this and to look at their own record and determine if they are supporting the site and community as is necessary for it to function properly.

For those of you who do spend your valuable time voting, my sincere thanks.

Okay Geogeer. I get what you're saying. I'll fix the problem. Give me 24-48 hours to brain storm this, with other members.

What I'm saying is simple if you don't take the time to vote, don't expect votes. I think that is only fair. I'm also asking for a bit of introspection on the part of everybody. Just apply the golden rule. If there are people abusing the system, withhold votes until they do their duty.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 9:37:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 9:35:41 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/25/2014 9:21:14 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/25/2014 9:12:27 PM, Geogeer wrote:
After my recent discussion on here with Sadolite I've come to the conclusion that there are too many users on this site who are not pulling their weight for the community.

This site works on the basis that the members vote on the debates in order to provide feedback and declare winners. The problem is that we do not have enough people taking the time to vote.

Sadolite wanted to set up a system whereby every debate would receive a minimum 3 votes before a winner is declared. I don't think there is anybody here who would not like that to be true. However, it is not happening because people are not taking the time to vote. Look at your history and if you have not voted on at least 3-5 times the number of debates you have participated in, you are part of the problem.

As such I will not vote for anyone who requests votes in the Post Unvoted Debates Here topic unless:

1) If after 10 debates they have not started to vote
2) if after 15 debates they do not have as many votes as debates
3) if after 20 debates they do not have at least 2x the number of votes as debates
4) and if after 25 debates they do not have at least 3x the number of votes as debates.

I invite all other members to consider this and to look at their own record and determine if they are supporting the site and community as is necessary for it to function properly.

For those of you who do spend your valuable time voting, my sincere thanks.

Okay Geogeer. I get what you're saying. I'll fix the problem. Give me 24-48 hours to brain storm this, with other members.

What I'm saying is simple if you don't take the time to vote, don't expect votes. I think that is only fair. I'm also asking for a bit of introspection on the part of everybody. Just apply the golden rule. If there are people abusing the system, withhold votes until they do their duty.

It's okay. You motivated me. I'm starting a voting tournament soon.
YYW
Posts: 36,382
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 9:38:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 9:12:27 PM, Geogeer wrote:
After my recent discussion on here with Sadolite I've come to the conclusion that there are too many users on this site who are not pulling their weight for the community.

I don't think that people should have to vote on three or four times the amount of debates they have... it's practical for some but not for all and even then as a community we only want people to vote who will invest the time and effort to do it correctly. Very few do that, so I'm comfortable with voting being so scarce now. We also have a lot of demonstrably awful voters who post insane RFD's for idiotic reasons that have no basis in reality -and I'd like them to vote much less. The point, then, is that getting more people to vote is only a good thing if, on balance, those who are going to vote are going to do it well -and I don't think that's going to happen. I think that of those members who care about voting and put some real time and consideration into there votes, they already vote a lot, and while it would be nice to get them to vote more, that's asking a great deal of them as it is.
Tsar of DDO
Geogeer
Posts: 4,285
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 9:54:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 9:38:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/25/2014 9:12:27 PM, Geogeer wrote:
After my recent discussion on here with Sadolite I've come to the conclusion that there are too many users on this site who are not pulling their weight for the community.

I don't think that people should have to vote on three or four times the amount of debates they have... it's practical for some but not for all and even then as a community we only want people to vote who will invest the time and effort to do it correctly. Very few do that, so I'm comfortable with voting being so scarce now. We also have a lot of demonstrably awful voters who post insane RFD's for idiotic reasons that have no basis in reality -and I'd like them to vote much less. The point, then, is that getting more people to vote is only a good thing if, on balance, those who are going to vote are going to do it well -and I don't think that's going to happen. I think that of those members who care about voting and put some real time and consideration into there votes, they already vote a lot, and while it would be nice to get them to vote more, that's asking a great deal of them as it is.

Voting is like debating. It takes time and practice. If you have lots of votes, on average the right debater will win. The problem right now is that you don't get many votes, so the one crackpot ends up having a massive sway.

I've had votes on debates that were ludicrous in nature and cost me the debate. You know what I did? I thanked them for taking the time to vote. I have never reported a bad vote on any of my debates, and I probably never will. That is their opinion. Isn't that ultimately what a debate is about?

Those who already vote a lot don't have anything to feel bad about, and have already been thanked.
YYW
Posts: 36,382
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 10:04:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 9:54:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/25/2014 9:38:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/25/2014 9:12:27 PM, Geogeer wrote:
After my recent discussion on here with Sadolite I've come to the conclusion that there are too many users on this site who are not pulling their weight for the community.

I don't think that people should have to vote on three or four times the amount of debates they have... it's practical for some but not for all and even then as a community we only want people to vote who will invest the time and effort to do it correctly. Very few do that, so I'm comfortable with voting being so scarce now. We also have a lot of demonstrably awful voters who post insane RFD's for idiotic reasons that have no basis in reality -and I'd like them to vote much less. The point, then, is that getting more people to vote is only a good thing if, on balance, those who are going to vote are going to do it well -and I don't think that's going to happen. I think that of those members who care about voting and put some real time and consideration into there votes, they already vote a lot, and while it would be nice to get them to vote more, that's asking a great deal of them as it is.

Voting is like debating. It takes time and practice. If you have lots of votes, on average the right debater will win. The problem right now is that you don't get many votes, so the one crackpot ends up having a massive sway.

You're exactly right, and the only members who enjoy a relative shield from those crackpots are (with a few exceptions) high profile members who can invoke a public censure when one of those crackpots casts a bad vote. And that's not fair at all. I'm in total agreement that if more good voters vote, all will benefit.

I've had votes on debates that were ludicrous in nature and cost me the debate. You know what I did? I thanked them for taking the time to vote. I have never reported a bad vote on any of my debates, and I probably never will. That is their opinion. Isn't that ultimately what a debate is about?

Right, and there's a fine line between a vote cast because a judge is stupid and a vote cast that's malicious. Not all bad votes are malicious, most are not and the few that are usually get addressed in one way or another -but the fact remains that there are many bad voters and the thought of more of them voting (when the number of bad voters far outweighs the number of good voters) is disconcerting on a number of levels.

Those who already vote a lot don't have anything to feel bad about, and have already been thanked.
Tsar of DDO
Geogeer
Posts: 4,285
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 10:20:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 10:04:58 PM, YYW wrote:

Right, and there's a fine line between a vote cast because a judge is stupid and a vote cast that's malicious. Not all bad votes are malicious, most are not and the few that are usually get addressed in one way or another -but the fact remains that there are many bad voters and the thought of more of them voting (when the number of bad voters far outweighs the number of good voters) is disconcerting on a number of levels.

While I understand what you are saying, it also reeks of a certain elitism. The vast majority of debaters who hang around for more than 5 votes are people who have the ability to learn and do. It is all part of being part of a community. If you put no onus on people to do what is necessary they don't step up to the plate. Will there be errors? Yup. However, that is part of the game. We let a jury of peers with no particular skills decide much greater things.
YYW
Posts: 36,382
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 10:24:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 10:20:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/25/2014 10:04:58 PM, YYW wrote:

Right, and there's a fine line between a vote cast because a judge is stupid and a vote cast that's malicious. Not all bad votes are malicious, most are not and the few that are usually get addressed in one way or another -but the fact remains that there are many bad voters and the thought of more of them voting (when the number of bad voters far outweighs the number of good voters) is disconcerting on a number of levels.

While I understand what you are saying, it also reeks of a certain elitism.

Elitism is the other side of competence, yes.

The vast majority of debaters who hang around for more than 5 votes are people who have the ability to learn and do.

How are we going to teach them? Can teaching them be done in a way that doesn't come at the expense, on balance, of those who put a lot of time and effort into their debates?

It is all part of being part of a community. If you put no onus on people to do what is necessary they don't step up to the plate. Will there be errors? Yup. However, that is part of the game.

Sure.

We let a jury of peers with no particular skills decide much greater things.

That's, I think, one of the most compelling reasons to settle a case before trial that exists in the American legal system.
Tsar of DDO
Geogeer
Posts: 4,285
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 10:39:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 10:24:16 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/25/2014 10:20:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/25/2014 10:04:58 PM, YYW wrote:

Right, and there's a fine line between a vote cast because a judge is stupid and a vote cast that's malicious. Not all bad votes are malicious, most are not and the few that are usually get addressed in one way or another -but the fact remains that there are many bad voters and the thought of more of them voting (when the number of bad voters far outweighs the number of good voters) is disconcerting on a number of levels.

While I understand what you are saying, it also reeks of a certain elitism.

Elitism is the other side of competence, yes.

Yup.

The vast majority of debaters who hang around for more than 5 votes are people who have the ability to learn and do.

How are we going to teach them? Can teaching them be done in a way that doesn't come at the expense, on balance, of those who put a lot of time and effort into their debates?

And somebody who reads through a 10k - 4 round debate on a topic they are unfamiliar with and tries to figure out the validity of the points also has invested a great deal of time. Is their time also not invested in something? If you are not convincing them as well, maybe it shows a hole in your debating style to be considered.

It is all part of being part of a community. If you put no onus on people to do what is necessary they don't step up to the plate. Will there be errors? Yup. However, that is part of the game.

Sure.

We let a jury of peers with no particular skills decide much greater things.

That's, I think, one of the most compelling reasons to settle a case before trial that exists in the American legal system.

They do occasionally get it wrong, but on the whole they exercise fairness. Those esteemed in the law also get it wrong sometimes.
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 11:53:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yay I vote 4.5 times as frequently as I debate! And since it takes 2 people for 1 debate, I vote 9 times for every debate.
0x5f3759df
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 11:55:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And yeah, that's a problem with your math. Since each debate takes 2 people, you only need to vote 1.5 times for every debate to achieve the over all 3 votes per debate ratio.
0x5f3759df
Geogeer
Posts: 4,285
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/26/2014 12:02:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 11:55:48 PM, Bullish wrote:
And yeah, that's a problem with your math. Since each debate takes 2 people, you only need to vote 1.5 times for every debate to achieve the over all 3 votes per debate ratio.

I understand that, however once you factor in that we are looking for a MINIMUM of 3 votes per debate, and that there are many debates that are by newbies that also require votes 3-5 is a good range to be in to make sure every debate gets at least one vote, regular debaters get at least 3 votes and really good debates get more.

And thank-you for your generosity in voting. You are a wonderful asset to the site in that you give more to the community than you receive.