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How did DDO become a children's site?

RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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5/27/2014 10:24:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The new generation of DDO users is just pretty young, that's all. Since our long term users are the people who make up DDO culture and our new, young generation of users are very active it only makes sense that DDO culture will have changed to fit a younger generation. The new users being young probably stems from the polls and opinions section, which will generally apply to younger people. Younger people then come from the polls and opinions section and become new, long term users on this site.
Nolite Timere
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,350
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5/27/2014 10:24:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 10:22:55 PM, Cin wrote:
I'm sorry D;

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Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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5/27/2014 10:28:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

I can agree that the amount of stupid debates, forums, polls, and opinions is kind of sad. I normally just don't bother to click on 'em.


So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

I think it's more the second theory. People who belong on social networking sites but still feel like arguing every once in a while join DDO.


Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

That's a bit of an exaggeration... I'd say it's more like a fully dressed person; definitely far from being the majority, but not too terribly uncommon either.
Krieg01
Posts: 1,131
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5/27/2014 10:32:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I've been on the site for a while now (Not very long to be honest) and i started in the polls and then moved into debating and the forums but as i am only in school and am still young i can only use the school internet to be able to use this site. In doing so i only have a limited time each week to be able to check the site therefore i can not really start and finish debates which is why i kept to the polls.

I believe this also encompasses most of the other students that go to this site as well and is probably the reason that there are not many serious debates being started more often. Another reason is that the older generation of debaters on this site are leaving and giving way to the new debaters who are finishing or have just finished school and the just need to adjust to how the site works.
How come when I hit review it sometimes adds my post without me clicking add post?
Does this happen to other people?

#LEARN TO SPEAK UP
#Cause I can
Learn to use emoticons DDO.
Raisor
Posts: 4,456
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5/27/2014 10:40:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

Its been like this for years. It used to be inferno or someone else posting fluff on the DDO board, now its some other highschool student.

Also the "junk about games" I don't think is a big issue. People throw up posts to get a google hangout going because this board is the most visible. As long as people aren't engaging in long posts about the game and are only using the board as a vehicle to facilitate what is essentially a community activity I don't see the issue.

I think you still see a decent amount of debate related threads on here- there have been a few discussion on BoP in the past week.
KaileyFox
Posts: 156
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5/27/2014 10:50:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

Let's not forget the /way/ some people debate... Even if it is a serious topic, even if it is an adult debating, some of the more insecure tend to revert back to children's tactics of winning an argument...
Defro
Posts: 847
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5/27/2014 10:52:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

I'm sorry that you had to see this happen to DDO. When I joined DDO, I could sense this happening, and it crossed my mind that it would be weird for senior members such as yourself.

I think your second theory is right. But I think that is mainly because the majority of social networking is consisted of relatively young people, because old people generally don't know how to use technology as conveniently as young people. You're even older than my mom, and she hardly knows how to use a computer, much less the internet.
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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5/27/2014 11:20:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
DDO has always been a children's/young adult's site. There have been, in the past, more adult members who posted more frequently than previously, but there are more kids on here now than there ever have been. Many are good members, some are not. Even still, some adults have left over time, and that's most probably because some very bad members were allowed to stay much longer than they should have. Possibly also because they felt like they were out of place. Serious debating still goes on, and so at about the same rate that it has. The only reason why it looks like that's not the case is because the ratio of hard debates to fluff is higher than it's ever been.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/27/2014 11:25:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

You're being a fuddy duddy. If you're looking for serious debate and discussion. You'll have no problem finding it. Everybody finds what they want here. It's just more people are looking for the social aspect. So they are more visible.
Geographia
Posts: 1,467
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5/27/2014 11:30:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

False Dichotomy.
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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5/27/2014 11:31:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 11:30:24 PM, Geographia wrote:
At 5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

False Dichotomy.

What exactly are you saying is a false dichotomy?
Raisor
Posts: 4,456
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5/27/2014 11:31:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 11:20:08 PM, YYW wrote:
DDO has always been a children's/young adult's site. There have been, in the past, more adult members who posted more frequently than previously, but there are more kids on here now than there ever have been. Many are good members, some are not. Even still, some adults have left over time, and that's most probably because some very bad members were allowed to stay much longer than they should have. Possibly also because they felt like they were out of place. Serious debating still goes on, and so at about the same rate that it has. The only reason why it looks like that's not the case is because the ratio of hard debates to fluff is higher than it's ever been.

Speaking to moving on - I've found that once you leave school you have a lot less time to spend on DDO. Its hard to commit to a debate when you might have to unexpectedly work extra hours or you have volunteer or social commitments that make the regular participation required for a 4 round debate much more difficult.
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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5/27/2014 11:32:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 11:31:22 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 5/27/2014 11:20:08 PM, YYW wrote:
DDO has always been a children's/young adult's site. There have been, in the past, more adult members who posted more frequently than previously, but there are more kids on here now than there ever have been. Many are good members, some are not. Even still, some adults have left over time, and that's most probably because some very bad members were allowed to stay much longer than they should have. Possibly also because they felt like they were out of place. Serious debating still goes on, and so at about the same rate that it has. The only reason why it looks like that's not the case is because the ratio of hard debates to fluff is higher than it's ever been.

Speaking to moving on - I've found that once you leave school you have a lot less time to spend on DDO. Its hard to commit to a debate when you might have to unexpectedly work extra hours or you have volunteer or social commitments that make the regular participation required for a 4 round debate much more difficult.

Would you say that that's pretty much been happening since the beginning of the site, though?
Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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5/27/2014 11:38:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 11:31:22 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 5/27/2014 11:20:08 PM, YYW wrote:
DDO has always been a children's/young adult's site. There have been, in the past, more adult members who posted more frequently than previously, but there are more kids on here now than there ever have been. Many are good members, some are not. Even still, some adults have left over time, and that's most probably because some very bad members were allowed to stay much longer than they should have. Possibly also because they felt like they were out of place. Serious debating still goes on, and so at about the same rate that it has. The only reason why it looks like that's not the case is because the ratio of hard debates to fluff is higher than it's ever been.

Speaking to moving on - I've found that once you leave school you have a lot less time to spend on DDO. Its hard to commit to a debate when you might have to unexpectedly work extra hours or you have volunteer or social commitments that make the regular participation required for a 4 round debate much more difficult.

Huh!? I... I was under the impression that I would finally have MORE time after getting out of school...... Reality sucks :(
Geographia
Posts: 1,467
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5/27/2014 11:41:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 11:31:08 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/27/2014 11:30:24 PM, Geographia wrote:
At 5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

False Dichotomy.

What exactly are you saying is a false dichotomy?

That Social Networking is unable to be both a Social Network and a place for serious debate. Or, what I Bolded.
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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5/27/2014 11:42:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 11:41:34 PM, Geographia wrote:
At 5/27/2014 11:31:08 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/27/2014 11:30:24 PM, Geographia wrote:
At 5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

False Dichotomy.

What exactly are you saying is a false dichotomy?

That Social Networking is unable to be both a Social Network and a place for serious debate. Or, what I Bolded.

Fair enough.
Complicated_Mind
Posts: 367
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5/28/2014 12:03:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I came on with the initial intent of debating truth be told, however I probably socialize a bit more than I had anticipated, and my last three debates with birdie were fun but kind of boarder on an idiotic fun funny, however I usually don't participate in such debates and am generally a more serious person. I've noticed this trend as well and I'd agree with your second theory to a degree and simply think that lots of young people are lead to this site because of the opinions and polls section and they either don't even try to debate, debate trivial things, or they frequently get tired of debating (or they come in here, do something juvenile, then leave forever). Regardless this does seem to be transforming into a social networking site and too many things on here are boarder line idiotic in all four sections, however that's expected in any site come more members. More members = more stupid things.
Oromagi
Posts: 857
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5/28/2014 12:12:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

I'd have to agree, Roy, even while acknowledging that I've played a few games of mafia and once or twice taken the bait from les enfants provocateur.

I sought out a debate site last summer exactly because I felt that it was impossible to be heard much less persuade on other social networks. I was looking for a place for thoughtful discourse and I've certainly found some at times, while simultaneously tracking a continual increase towards the playground.

I can't boast of any expertise in internet sociology, but I'm willing to speculate as to causes.

The obvious flaw with online debating is the absence of any stakes. Folks who are losing a debate are able to walk away without consequence or often even apology for the wasted time of the abandoned debater. Good debates continually go unread & unvoted while gossip over DDO regulars ratchets up attention. As with many places on the net, anonymity sucks out any sense of citizenship or care-taking or community consensus. If one identity acquires a bad reputation, it seems a second or third account may be sported with relative impunity.

I can certainly detect a culture of vagabond teens who flutter from site to site in an effort to dominate leader boards and front pages. I think this phenomenon is born of the youtube/twitter dynamic, where the attracting of attention itself becomes the show: a convention of carnival barkers while the acrobats stay home.

Additionally, I get the sense that some teachers may have promoted or even required DDO membership as part of an assignment, driving down the average age of participants from college age to high school age- a distinctly different population for discourse.

I think we also have to recognize the infantilization of media across the board. Are there any national TV shows that actually promote reasoned argument? I suppose C-span has a few and I wouldn't be surprised to hear of others, but nobody's paying attention. Perhaps DDO is merely reflecting the rapid change in all communication and information sharing. From smart phones to the death of books and print to the pulsing hyperactive interest in consumer data, I think the state of all modern media is morphing faster than any historian can document.

I don't suppose there is any remedy beyond our willingness to migrate as well. We can forbear or else move on to the slower, quieter corners for discussion. My guess is that each maturing generation faces some variation of this choice: too many equites at the bath, too many proles at the club, too many hipsters at the bar. Ah, well. Time does not relent.
Mysterious_Stranger
Posts: 1,562
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5/28/2014 4:48:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't care what age people are on here as long as they act sensible and civilised. But posts like this http://www.debate.org... seriously need to stop, it's like the silent killer of the site.
Turn around, go back.
tbhidc
Posts: 84
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5/28/2014 8:18:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 11:22:58 PM, YYW wrote:
The only way to change the site's culture is to lead by example.

Does your name mean "Yuck, yuck, women.." because you're gay or does it mean something else? Serious question.
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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5/28/2014 8:40:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

A lot of the new generation's children are addicted to instant gratification. Technology and entertainment are becoming so good, that a click can give you an entertaining Youtube video. Chatting with friends about drama is easy and fun. Having a 'debate' involving the best 'yo momma' jokes is easy to set-up, and quick in terms 'research' required.

Debating properly is hard, and requires work to be rewarding, as I'm sure you're well aware. For children of nowadays, such an option is seriously unappealing, especially when the instant gratification is so readily available.

So, as you've mentioned, in order to be a popular site, DDO has offered these instant gratification tools, of which involve social networking.

You're in an interesting position, Roy. You've, and I mean no offence, lived a lot longer than the vast majority of people on this site. You have grown up with a very different context to the children of nowadays. You'll see all this frivolous nonsense far more easily than the majority of people.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/28/2014 8:51:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

lol, these are very interesting observations and I can only point out that given your time on this website, you're probably the best qualified to answer the question.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/28/2014 8:55:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 11:25:35 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

You're being a fuddy duddy. If you're looking for serious debate and discussion. You'll have no problem finding it. Everybody finds what they want here. It's just more people are looking for the social aspect. So they are more visible.

I disagree generally with this statement, unless you add the caveat that perhaps what some people want is to stop participating in this website because they don't find that it fulfills their interests. What would be disturbing is if those people found that serious discussion fulfills their interests, and they don't find it here...so they find what they want here by discovering that they want to leave.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/28/2014 8:55:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 10:19:49 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I'm impressed by how quickly the nature of the site has changed. The debate.org forum is now dominated by topics that should be in the "Personal" forum, junk about games, and other things suitable to high school sophomores with too much time on their hands. Threads on debate-related issues scroll off the first page in about a day. The debates have followed suit. There are fourteen-year-olds who will find the site too immature to be interesting.

So, okay, times change. What I'm curious about is how this happened. One theory is that (1) to be a popular site, DDO has to be social networking site (hence polls, opinions, and games galore) and (2) social networking doesn't have room for serious debate. Is there any more to it than that?

Yeah, I know there is still some serious debating going on. It's as out of place as a tuxedo on the beach, but it happens.

I would ask you given your time here if you've observed a correlation between Juggle buying out this site and a decline in the age group?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?