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Reform The VOTING SYSTEM NOW

GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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6/4/2014 2:55:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is totally unacceptable. I just wasted an hour (or more) of my life judging this debate and writing a lengthy RFD only to find out I don't have the 3000 ELO required to vote on it:

http://www.debate.org...

I was given no prior warning. If a debate has standards for who can vote, there's GOT to be a big, flashing warning that everyone can see before they read the debate.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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6/4/2014 3:51:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/4/2014 2:55:57 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
This is totally unacceptable. I just wasted an hour (or more) of my life judging this debate and writing a lengthy RFD only to find out I don't have the 3000 ELO required to vote on it:

http://www.debate.org...

I was given no prior warning. If a debate has standards for who can vote, there's GOT to be a big, flashing warning that everyone can see before they read the debate.

Mmm yes, much like there is red writing on debates that you can't accept, explaining that you do not meet the requirements for accepting the debate.Are the voting restrictions even indicated anywhere?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/4/2014 4:54:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/4/2014 2:55:57 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
This is totally unacceptable. I just wasted an hour (or more) of my life judging this debate and writing a lengthy RFD only to find out I don't have the 3000 ELO required to vote on it:

http://www.debate.org...

I was given no prior warning. If a debate has standards for who can vote, there's GOT to be a big, flashing warning that everyone can see before they read the debate.

Sorry Garret, my opponent had expressed prior concern about voter bias. He even did other debates about it. I just wanted to take that excuse off the table as best I could.
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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6/4/2014 5:12:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/4/2014 4:54:37 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/4/2014 2:55:57 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
This is totally unacceptable. I just wasted an hour (or more) of my life judging this debate and writing a lengthy RFD only to find out I don't have the 3000 ELO required to vote on it:

http://www.debate.org...

I was given no prior warning. If a debate has standards for who can vote, there's GOT to be a big, flashing warning that everyone can see before they read the debate.

Sorry Garret, my opponent had expressed prior concern about voter bias. He even did other debates about it. I just wanted to take that excuse off the table as best I could.

It should have been mentioned in Round 1.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
Defro
Posts: 847
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6/4/2014 9:01:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/4/2014 5:12:17 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 6/4/2014 4:54:37 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/4/2014 2:55:57 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
This is totally unacceptable. I just wasted an hour (or more) of my life judging this debate and writing a lengthy RFD only to find out I don't have the 3000 ELO required to vote on it:

http://www.debate.org...

I was given no prior warning. If a debate has standards for who can vote, there's GOT to be a big, flashing warning that everyone can see before they read the debate.

Sorry Garret, my opponent had expressed prior concern about voter bias. He even did other debates about it. I just wanted to take that excuse off the table as best I could.

It should have been mentioned in Round 1.

My elo is over 3000. If you'd like, I can post your RFD for you in your place.
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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6/4/2014 9:31:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Just post your rfd in the comments. Hypothetical points will still mean something to them if the rfd was good feedback. I hardly think that is a reason to reform the voting system.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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6/4/2014 9:44:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/4/2014 9:01:52 AM, Defro wrote:
At 6/4/2014 5:12:17 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 6/4/2014 4:54:37 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/4/2014 2:55:57 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
This is totally unacceptable. I just wasted an hour (or more) of my life judging this debate and writing a lengthy RFD only to find out I don't have the 3000 ELO required to vote on it:

http://www.debate.org...

I was given no prior warning. If a debate has standards for who can vote, there's GOT to be a big, flashing warning that everyone can see before they read the debate.

Sorry Garret, my opponent had expressed prior concern about voter bias. He even did other debates about it. I just wanted to take that excuse off the table as best I could.

It should have been mentioned in Round 1.

My elo is over 3000. If you'd like, I can post your RFD for you in your place.

I posted my RFD in the comments, but if you'd vote for me that'd be great!
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
Geogeer
Posts: 4,280
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6/4/2014 10:24:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/4/2014 9:31:55 AM, TUF wrote:
Just post your rfd in the comments. Hypothetical points will still mean something to them if the rfd was good feedback. I hardly think that is a reason to reform the voting system.

I think the point he is trying to make is that if you do not meet the voting requirements, there should be something on the voting page clearly indicating that. This is very clear if you do not meet the requirements accept the debate. He is pointing out that Juggle implemented it on one side, but not on the other.
Defro
Posts: 847
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6/4/2014 10:51:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/4/2014 9:44:26 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 6/4/2014 9:01:52 AM, Defro wrote:
At 6/4/2014 5:12:17 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 6/4/2014 4:54:37 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/4/2014 2:55:57 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
This is totally unacceptable. I just wasted an hour (or more) of my life judging this debate and writing a lengthy RFD only to find out I don't have the 3000 ELO required to vote on it:

http://www.debate.org...

I was given no prior warning. If a debate has standards for who can vote, there's GOT to be a big, flashing warning that everyone can see before they read the debate.

Sorry Garret, my opponent had expressed prior concern about voter bias. He even did other debates about it. I just wanted to take that excuse off the table as best I could.

It should have been mentioned in Round 1.

My elo is over 3000. If you'd like, I can post your RFD for you in your place.

I posted my RFD in the comments, but if you'd vote for me that'd be great!

Done
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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6/4/2014 12:05:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/4/2014 10:51:10 AM, Defro wrote:
At 6/4/2014 9:44:26 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 6/4/2014 9:01:52 AM, Defro wrote:
At 6/4/2014 5:12:17 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 6/4/2014 4:54:37 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/4/2014 2:55:57 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
This is totally unacceptable. I just wasted an hour (or more) of my life judging this debate and writing a lengthy RFD only to find out I don't have the 3000 ELO required to vote on it:

http://www.debate.org...

I was given no prior warning. If a debate has standards for who can vote, there's GOT to be a big, flashing warning that everyone can see before they read the debate.

Sorry Garret, my opponent had expressed prior concern about voter bias. He even did other debates about it. I just wanted to take that excuse off the table as best I could.

It should have been mentioned in Round 1.

My elo is over 3000. If you'd like, I can post your RFD for you in your place.

I posted my RFD in the comments, but if you'd vote for me that'd be great!

Done

Thanks!
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,364
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6/4/2014 3:55:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/4/2014 2:55:57 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
This is totally unacceptable. I just wasted an hour (or more) of my life judging this debate and writing a lengthy RFD only to find out I don't have the 3000 ELO required to vote on it:

http://www.debate.org...

I was given no prior warning. If a debate has standards for who can vote, there's GOT to be a big, flashing warning that everyone can see before they read the debate.

It is true that there are some people who would be fine judges whose ELO's are less than 3000, but as a rule, there are more good judges with that high ELO level than there are are at the greater than 2000 level. The cost, then, of those few good judges with ELO's below the permissible threshold, is acceptable where we're trying to ensure that only good judges vote on debates. The OP should take note that he has the option of debating more, so that in the future, should he wish to vote on a debate with a 3000 ELO threshold, he can do so. In that way, the ELO threshold both incentivizes debating while ensuring that those more likely to cast quality RFD's are the only one to do so. Ergo, the new voting system need not be reformed.
Tsar of DDO
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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6/4/2014 6:42:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/4/2014 3:55:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2014 2:55:57 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
This is totally unacceptable. I just wasted an hour (or more) of my life judging this debate and writing a lengthy RFD only to find out I don't have the 3000 ELO required to vote on it:

http://www.debate.org...

I was given no prior warning. If a debate has standards for who can vote, there's GOT to be a big, flashing warning that everyone can see before they read the debate.

It is true that there are some people who would be fine judges whose ELO's are less than 3000, but as a rule, there are more good judges with that high ELO level than there are are at the greater than 2000 level. The cost, then, of those few good judges with ELO's below the permissible threshold, is acceptable where we're trying to ensure that only good judges vote on debates. The OP should take note that he has the option of debating more, so that in the future, should he wish to vote on a debate with a 3000 ELO threshold, he can do so. In that way, the ELO threshold both incentivizes debating while ensuring that those more likely to cast quality RFD's are the only one to do so. Ergo, the new voting system need not be reformed.

That's not fair. At all.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,364
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6/4/2014 6:54:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/4/2014 6:42:31 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 6/4/2014 3:55:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/4/2014 2:55:57 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
This is totally unacceptable. I just wasted an hour (or more) of my life judging this debate and writing a lengthy RFD only to find out I don't have the 3000 ELO required to vote on it:

http://www.debate.org...

I was given no prior warning. If a debate has standards for who can vote, there's GOT to be a big, flashing warning that everyone can see before they read the debate.

It is true that there are some people who would be fine judges whose ELO's are less than 3000, but as a rule, there are more good judges with that high ELO level than there are are at the greater than 2000 level. The cost, then, of those few good judges with ELO's below the permissible threshold, is acceptable where we're trying to ensure that only good judges vote on debates. The OP should take note that he has the option of debating more, so that in the future, should he wish to vote on a debate with a 3000 ELO threshold, he can do so. In that way, the ELO threshold both incentivizes debating while ensuring that those more likely to cast quality RFD's are the only one to do so. Ergo, the new voting system need not be reformed.

That's not fair. At all.

Fair to whom? It would be unfair to a debater to allow for the increased possibility that a bad judge would vote on their debate if they didn't want that. No one is entitled to vote on anyone else's debate, and to the extent that debaters have input on who votes on their debates, it is fair to restrict whoever is eligible to vote based on debater's criteria.
Tsar of DDO
Logical-Master
Posts: 2,538
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6/11/2014 9:20:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hot dog. You guys went ahead with implementing with the judge system? I remember suggesting that a ways back, but didn't think it'd get implemented. That should fix any problems with unfairness complaints, but there is still the issue of improving voting traffic. The judge leaderboard is a nice touch, but there is still the need for some extra oomph!
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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6/11/2014 9:34:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/4/2014 10:24:49 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2014 9:31:55 AM, TUF wrote:
Just post your rfd in the comments. Hypothetical points will still mean something to them if the rfd was good feedback. I hardly think that is a reason to reform the voting system.

I think the point he is trying to make is that if you do not meet the voting requirements, there should be something on the voting page clearly indicating that. This is very clear if you do not meet the requirements accept the debate. He is pointing out that Juggle implemented it on one side, but not on the other.

I Agree this is the core problem. If I am going to read a debate to vote on it, at least tell me that I cannot vote. Then I can decide if I want to read it.

But to write a long RFD and then get told when you press submit that you cant vote is irritating as hell. At which point I don't post in the comments as I just don't care anymore. It angers me.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,280
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6/11/2014 9:36:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/11/2014 9:34:24 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 6/4/2014 10:24:49 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2014 9:31:55 AM, TUF wrote:
Just post your rfd in the comments. Hypothetical points will still mean something to them if the rfd was good feedback. I hardly think that is a reason to reform the voting system.

I think the point he is trying to make is that if you do not meet the voting requirements, there should be something on the voting page clearly indicating that. This is very clear if you do not meet the requirements accept the debate. He is pointing out that Juggle implemented it on one side, but not on the other.

I Agree this is the core problem. If I am going to read a debate to vote on it, at least tell me that I cannot vote. Then I can decide if I want to read it.

But to write a long RFD and then get told when you press submit that you cant vote is irritating as hell. At which point I don't post in the comments as I just don't care anymore. It angers me.

I'm going to mark this date down. iamanatheistandthisiswhy and myself agree on something!
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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6/11/2014 9:36:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/11/2014 9:36:08 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/11/2014 9:34:24 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 6/4/2014 10:24:49 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2014 9:31:55 AM, TUF wrote:
Just post your rfd in the comments. Hypothetical points will still mean something to them if the rfd was good feedback. I hardly think that is a reason to reform the voting system.

I think the point he is trying to make is that if you do not meet the voting requirements, there should be something on the voting page clearly indicating that. This is very clear if you do not meet the requirements accept the debate. He is pointing out that Juggle implemented it on one side, but not on the other.

I Agree this is the core problem. If I am going to read a debate to vote on it, at least tell me that I cannot vote. Then I can decide if I want to read it.

But to write a long RFD and then get told when you press submit that you cant vote is irritating as hell. At which point I don't post in the comments as I just don't care anymore. It angers me.

I'm going to mark this date down. iamanatheistandthisiswhy and myself agree on something!

LOL.
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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6/11/2014 9:41:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Good RFD. You just got to get in the habit of looking at the ELO restriction thingy.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8