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"BoP!" is not a valid RFD

Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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6/29/2014 3:02:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Lately I've noticed a lot of impossibly weak votes, usually fluff votes (awarding extra categories, such as sources when neither side had any), giving no more RFD than BoP.

While I agree that debaters need to hit a minimum standard of coherence, and that failing can boil down to issues of BoP... Merely saying "BoP" is no better a RFD than "I thought this side won." It's a fill in the blanks RFD, with the blanks not filled in. Neither actually suggest the voter read the debate, certainly a mile from having actually compared the two arguments for and against the resolution.

From the official how to vote guide, "voting on Debate.org is based on fact and NOT on Opinion," that BoP is not met is an opinion which needs to be supported by facts.
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ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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6/29/2014 3:49:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I only try as hard as my opponent does. If I feel he'll forfeit, then so will I. If he writes one contention, I might write only two.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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6/29/2014 4:03:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I find those kinds of votes abhorrent as well. If BoP is so important, then the voter should at least explain why that justifies the vote. If they can't do that, then their vote is nothing but pure fluff.
YYW
Posts: 36,426
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6/29/2014 4:48:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 3:02:39 PM, Ragnar wrote:
Lately I've noticed a lot of impossibly weak votes, usually fluff votes (awarding extra categories, such as sources when neither side had any), giving no more RFD than BoP.

While I agree that debaters need to hit a minimum standard of coherence, and that failing can boil down to issues of BoP... Merely saying "BoP" is no better a RFD than "I thought this side won." It's a fill in the blanks RFD, with the blanks not filled in. Neither actually suggest the voter read the debate, certainly a mile from having actually compared the two arguments for and against the resolution.

From the official how to vote guide, "voting on Debate.org is based on fact and NOT on Opinion," that BoP is not met is an opinion which needs to be supported by facts.

On the face of it, I'm inclined to agree. But, wanna provide some examples anyway?
Tsar of DDO
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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6/30/2014 1:37:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 4:48:17 PM, YYW wrote:
On the face of it, I'm inclined to agree. But, wanna provide some examples anyway?
To avoid this thread turning into a flame war, I will make up some which while similar to debates I have actually seen, are not finger pointing to individuals.

1. Let's say Pro argues something impossible to prove like The Earth Was Made In Only Six Days. While their case will likely never rise above assertions, they at least make some assertions (I won't call it evidence due to my beliefs, but you may). A vote should not be levied against them merely for making the topic, rather the vote must be based on what con does in the debate (then how well pro counters the refutations etc).

1a. If con full forfeits the debate, we are hopefully all agreed that pro wins conduct, and at least does not lose arguments.
1b. If con just accepts in the first round, but forfeits the middle rounds, waiting for the final round when pro will not be able to respond... Well we have all seen that ugly tactic work, but DDO standards call all those points dropped, and the vote should still be against con. http://www.debate.org...
1c. If con trolls the debate (doing a bad job of it), saying "I like cheese" instead of responding to anything on topic, the vote should still firmly be in pro's favor. Con has not really done anything better than forfeiting.
1d. If instead of saying "I like cheese," they just say "That's not enough proof, BOP" without actually saying why any of the points fail to be proof (or enough proof), well it seems to be to fall rather close to 1c above.

To exemplify terrible votes, let's say there's a debate over if a certain singer raped an underage girl, and the debate closely mirrors the actual trial. Pro brings up a video tape of the gay having sex with her, eye witness testimony of the event, testimony from other underage girl's he raped... Con counters saying hypothetically James Cameron could have digitally made that tape with computers (no motivation for this is given), the girl in the tape is older now (yes that was a key part of the trial), and the eye witnesses are actually the Devil! ... Yes this was an actual case, and the accused was acquitted by a standard of reasonable doubt. Here on DDO a vote for con citing how the rape victim didn't stay the same age, might be acceptable, however merely saying "BoP not met" (which is all a live jury is really doing) would be clearly unacceptable.
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sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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6/30/2014 7:50:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Virtually nothing is a valid RFD
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/1/2014 10:34:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I disagree. BOP is a sure fire thing. If the opponent didn't fill it he didn't win. Although I agree you should expand on why. The BOP is not to show there are no flaws, but that Pro didn't show the proposal causes net-good.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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7/1/2014 12:48:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 7:50:39 PM, sadolite wrote:
Virtually nothing is a valid RFD
Please expand upon your claim.

...

At 7/1/2014 9:33:07 AM, XLAV wrote:
Lol, is this about my vote on this debate: http://www.debate.org...
Actually that vote is fine. As I said above "that BoP is not met is an opinion which needs to be supported by facts," in your example vote it is supported. It's not a vote comparable to "I like cheese," "[side] had stronger pointss" (an actual vote I saw today), or just "BoP not met" with no sign to suggest consideration of what that means. I think the most important thing a vote needs to do, is hit a voter Burden of Proof of providing evidence to suggest the voter actually read the debate (which a surprising number of votes fail at).

The vote in question:
Conduct, spelling and grammar, and sources are a tie. Pro's "This website will support a terrorist without a problem." argument is true, however, the resolution states "Debate.org supports every known terrorist and criminal organization in the world" So does DDO, right now, support EVERY know terrorist group and criminal organization? No. Does Pro have any evidence that DDO supports a terrorist group or a criminal organization? No. The BoP was on Pro and he failed to meet his BoP. He provided no evidence that DDO supports a terrorist group and a crimnial organization. Pro stated that anyone can use DDO, but he has no evidence that every know terrorist and criminal organizations are being supported by DDO.

...

At 7/1/2014 10:34:38 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
I disagree. BOP is a sure fire thing. If the opponent didn't fill it he didn't win.
First of all, didn't win is different than losing. Argument points can be voted a tie.
Although I agree you should expand on why.
I wholly agree.
The BOP is not to show there are no flaws, but that Pro didn't show the proposal causes net-good.
Voting solely for BoP without expanded reasons, leads to popularity contests instead of objective voting. Instead of XLAV's sample vote above, we'll get "Is this just a vote for who I agree with?" I promise that is where simplistic opinions like "BOP is a sure fire thing" lead to.
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Romanii
Posts: 4,868
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7/1/2014 2:52:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I completely agree.
Saying that "Pro met his BoP while Con did not because he affirmed X resolution" is just as bad as saying "Pro had more convincing arguments". You have to expand on HOW Pro affirmed X resolution and Con failed to negate it.
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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7/1/2014 4:22:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 12:48:35 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/30/2014 7:50:39 PM, sadolite wrote:
Virtually nothing is a valid RFD
Please expand upon your claim.

...

At 7/1/2014 9:33:07 AM, XLAV wrote:
Lol, is this about my vote on this debate: http://www.debate.org...
Actually that vote is fine. As I said above "that BoP is not met is an opinion which needs to be supported by facts," in your example vote it is supported. It's not a vote comparable to "I like cheese," "[side] had stronger pointss" (an actual vote I saw today), or just "BoP not met" with no sign to suggest consideration of what that means. I think the most important thing a vote needs to do, is hit a voter Burden of Proof of providing evidence to suggest the voter actually read the debate (which a surprising number of votes fail at).

The vote in question:
Conduct, spelling and grammar, and sources are a tie. Pro's "This website will support a terrorist without a problem." argument is true, however, the resolution states "Debate.org supports every known terrorist and criminal organization in the world" So does DDO, right now, support EVERY know terrorist group and criminal organization? No. Does Pro have any evidence that DDO supports a terrorist group or a criminal organization? No. The BoP was on Pro and he failed to meet his BoP. He provided no evidence that DDO supports a terrorist group and a crimnial organization. Pro stated that anyone can use DDO, but he has no evidence that every know terrorist and criminal organizations are being supported by DDO.

...

At 7/1/2014 10:34:38 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
I disagree. BOP is a sure fire thing. If the opponent didn't fill it he didn't win.
First of all, didn't win is different than losing. Argument points can be voted a tie.
Although I agree you should expand on why.
I wholly agree.
The BOP is not to show there are no flaws, but that Pro didn't show the proposal causes net-good.
Voting solely for BoP without expanded reasons, leads to popularity contests instead of objective voting. Instead of XLAV's sample vote above, we'll get "Is this just a vote for who I agree with?" I promise that is where simplistic opinions like "BOP is a sure fire thing" lead to.

One should be thankful one even got an RFD let alone bitch about it.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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7/2/2014 2:11:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 4:22:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/1/2014 12:48:35 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/30/2014 7:50:39 PM, sadolite wrote:
Virtually nothing is a valid RFD
Please expand upon your claim.
One should be thankful one even got an RFD let alone bitch about it.
Thank you for that complete non-sequitur.
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sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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7/2/2014 3:40:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/2/2014 2:11:14 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 7/1/2014 4:22:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/1/2014 12:48:35 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/30/2014 7:50:39 PM, sadolite wrote:
Virtually nothing is a valid RFD
Please expand upon your claim.
One should be thankful one even got an RFD let alone bitch about it.
Thank you for that complete non-sequitur.

Your welcome.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
tylergraham95
Posts: 1,461
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7/2/2014 9:07:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/2/2014 3:40:19 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 2:11:14 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 7/1/2014 4:22:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/1/2014 12:48:35 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/30/2014 7:50:39 PM, sadolite wrote:
Virtually nothing is a valid RFD
Please expand upon your claim.
One should be thankful one even got an RFD let alone bitch about it.
Thank you for that complete non-sequitur.

Your welcome.

You're*

Here let me give you a few examples.

You're making a mockery of the English language.

Or

You're an incredible dunce.

Here are some examples of the word you chose used in a sentence or two.

Your right to reproduce ought to be revoked.

Or

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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7/3/2014 4:40:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/2/2014 9:07:37 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.
Thank you for the Monty Python reference.

Aiming things back toward the topic, I would like to share a good vote from the above user "No points awarded. Jesus Christ this is a trainwreck." He found little (or no) merit in either case, and voted a tie. While his feedback was concise (and perhaps harsh), it informs debaters why he did or did not vote in either of their favors, thereby assisting them in improving future debates.

Were merely voting for BoP acceptable, he would have been forced to vote for con simply because he doesn't think pro won.

Heck under a lone BoP standard, con would be able forfeit every round, and still win the debate as forfeiting is only a conduct violation without barring on arguments.
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sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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7/3/2014 3:42:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/2/2014 9:07:37 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/2/2014 3:40:19 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 2:11:14 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 7/1/2014 4:22:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/1/2014 12:48:35 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/30/2014 7:50:39 PM, sadolite wrote:
Virtually nothing is a valid RFD
Please expand upon your claim.
One should be thankful one even got an RFD let alone bitch about it.
Thank you for that complete non-sequitur.

Your welcome.

You're*

Here let me give you a few examples.

You're making a mockery of the English language.

Or

You're an incredible dunce.


Here are some examples of the word you chose used in a sentence or two.

Your right to reproduce ought to be revoked.

Or

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

"YOUR" an ahole
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
tylergraham95
Posts: 1,461
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7/3/2014 7:17:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 3:42:30 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 9:07:37 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/2/2014 3:40:19 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 2:11:14 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 7/1/2014 4:22:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/1/2014 12:48:35 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/30/2014 7:50:39 PM, sadolite wrote:
Virtually nothing is a valid RFD
Please expand upon your claim.
One should be thankful one even got an RFD let alone bitch about it.
Thank you for that complete non-sequitur.

Your welcome.

You're*

Here let me give you a few examples.

You're making a mockery of the English language.

Or

You're an incredible dunce.


Here are some examples of the word you chose used in a sentence or two.

Your right to reproduce ought to be revoked.

Or

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

"YOUR" an ahole

No you still don't get it.

Here is how that word ought to be used.

"Your grammar is atrocious. Were you raised by wolves?"

Again, here is the other form.

"You're an illiterate ninny-hammer."
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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7/3/2014 7:28:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 7:17:07 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/3/2014 3:42:30 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 9:07:37 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/2/2014 3:40:19 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 2:11:14 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 7/1/2014 4:22:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/1/2014 12:48:35 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/30/2014 7:50:39 PM, sadolite wrote:
Virtually nothing is a valid RFD
Please expand upon your claim.
One should be thankful one even got an RFD let alone bitch about it.
Thank you for that complete non-sequitur.

Your welcome.

You're*

Here let me give you a few examples.

You're making a mockery of the English language.

Or

You're an incredible dunce.


Here are some examples of the word you chose used in a sentence or two.

Your right to reproduce ought to be revoked.

Or

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

"YOUR" an ahole

No you still don't get it.

Here is how that word ought to be used.

"Your grammar is atrocious. Were you raised by wolves?"

Again, here is the other form.

"You're an illiterate ninny-hammer."

Yours is not to engage in intellectual dialogue but only antagonize I shall have the moderator block you from responding to all my posts.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
tylergraham95
Posts: 1,461
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7/3/2014 7:59:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 7:28:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:17:07 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/3/2014 3:42:30 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 9:07:37 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/2/2014 3:40:19 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 2:11:14 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 7/1/2014 4:22:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/1/2014 12:48:35 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/30/2014 7:50:39 PM, sadolite wrote:
Virtually nothing is a valid RFD
Please expand upon your claim.
One should be thankful one even got an RFD let alone bitch about it.
Thank you for that complete non-sequitur.

Your welcome.

You're*

Here let me give you a few examples.

You're making a mockery of the English language.

Or

You're an incredible dunce.


Here are some examples of the word you chose used in a sentence or two.

Your right to reproduce ought to be revoked.

Or

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

"YOUR" an ahole

No you still don't get it.

Here is how that word ought to be used.

"Your grammar is atrocious. Were you raised by wolves?"

Again, here is the other form.

"You're an illiterate ninny-hammer."

Yours is not to engage in intellectual dialogue but only antagonize I shall have the moderator block you from responding to all my posts.

Hey you managed to get it right!

I'll engage in an array of intelligent dialogues! Check out my debate record if you don't believe me.
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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7/3/2014 8:06:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 7:59:58 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:28:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:17:07 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/3/2014 3:42:30 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 9:07:37 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/2/2014 3:40:19 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 2:11:14 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 7/1/2014 4:22:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/1/2014 12:48:35 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/30/2014 7:50:39 PM, sadolite wrote:
Virtually nothing is a valid RFD
Please expand upon your claim.
One should be thankful one even got an RFD let alone bitch about it.
Thank you for that complete non-sequitur.

Your welcome.

You're*

Here let me give you a few examples.

You're making a mockery of the English language.

Or

You're an incredible dunce.


Here are some examples of the word you chose used in a sentence or two.

Your right to reproduce ought to be revoked.

Or

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

"YOUR" an ahole

No you still don't get it.

Here is how that word ought to be used.

"Your grammar is atrocious. Were you raised by wolves?"

Again, here is the other form.

"You're an illiterate ninny-hammer."

Yours is not to engage in intellectual dialogue but only antagonize I shall have the moderator block you from responding to all my posts.

Hey you managed to get it right!

I'll engage in an array of intelligent dialogues! Check out my debate record if you don't believe me.

If you don't want to get banned don't ever respond to my posts again.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
tylergraham95
Posts: 1,461
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7/3/2014 8:08:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 8:06:30 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:59:58 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:28:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:17:07 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/3/2014 3:42:30 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 9:07:37 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/2/2014 3:40:19 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 2:11:14 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 7/1/2014 4:22:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/1/2014 12:48:35 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/30/2014 7:50:39 PM, sadolite wrote:
Virtually nothing is a valid RFD
Please expand upon your claim.
One should be thankful one even got an RFD let alone bitch about it.
Thank you for that complete non-sequitur.

Your welcome.

You're*

Here let me give you a few examples.

You're making a mockery of the English language.

Or

You're an incredible dunce.


Here are some examples of the word you chose used in a sentence or two.

Your right to reproduce ought to be revoked.

Or

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

"YOUR" an ahole

No you still don't get it.

Here is how that word ought to be used.

"Your grammar is atrocious. Were you raised by wolves?"

Again, here is the other form.

"You're an illiterate ninny-hammer."

Yours is not to engage in intellectual dialogue but only antagonize I shall have the moderator block you from responding to all my posts.

Hey you managed to get it right!

I'll engage in an array of intelligent dialogues! Check out my debate record if you don't believe me.

If you don't want to get banned don't ever respond to my posts again.

What happens if I respond to ALL of your posts?
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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7/3/2014 8:19:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 8:08:19 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/3/2014 8:06:30 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:59:58 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:28:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:17:07 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/3/2014 3:42:30 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 9:07:37 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 7/2/2014 3:40:19 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/2/2014 2:11:14 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 7/1/2014 4:22:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/1/2014 12:48:35 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/30/2014 7:50:39 PM, sadolite wrote:
Virtually nothing is a valid RFD
Please expand upon your claim.
One should be thankful one even got an RFD let alone bitch about it.
Thank you for that complete non-sequitur.

Your welcome.

You're*

Here let me give you a few examples.

You're making a mockery of the English language.

Or

You're an incredible dunce.


Here are some examples of the word you chose used in a sentence or two.

Your right to reproduce ought to be revoked.

Or

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

"YOUR" an ahole

No you still don't get it.

Here is how that word ought to be used.

"Your grammar is atrocious. Were you raised by wolves?"

Again, here is the other form.

"You're an illiterate ninny-hammer."

Yours is not to engage in intellectual dialogue but only antagonize I shall have the moderator block you from responding to all my posts.

Hey you managed to get it right!

I'll engage in an array of intelligent dialogues! Check out my debate record if you don't believe me.

If you don't want to get banned don't ever respond to my posts again.

What happens if I respond to ALL of your posts?

Ask the moderator when they contact you
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
tylergraham95
Posts: 1,461
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7/3/2014 8:26:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 8:19:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Ask the moderator when they contact you

See that's what I'm talking about: atrocious grammar. Here you have subject-predicate plurality disagreement. The pronouns that are applicable in this sentence are "he" and "she" not "they."

Honestly kid, it's 2014. Good grammar is not difficult to attain. I might actually take you seriously if you could manage to speak proper English.
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
Ragnar
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7/4/2014 12:20:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
As your feud is not even close to on topic, please take it to PMs.
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Ragnar
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7/6/2014 11:37:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
In the interest of fairness, anyone on here wish to voice any disagreement with the subject line?
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YYW
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7/7/2014 12:05:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/6/2014 11:37:52 PM, Ragnar wrote:
In the interest of fairness, anyone on here wish to voice any disagreement with the subject line?

Meh.

I think there are clear instances where, because a debater failed to meet their burden, it is sufficient to say that he or she failed to meet his or her burden if you also explain why.

But, there is also a lot of confusion regarding the concept of burdens of proof, and just as there is a lot of confusion, there are a lot of shitty judges who wouldn't even be able to understand if someone met their burden or not. And then, there are judges who give equal deference to unsubstantiated arguments as well as substantiated arguments who render idiotically arbitrary decisions with no basis in reality as much as there are others who read debates and vote on things that they had no comprehension of whatsoever while there are also judges who decide who they want to win before the round and sketchily reason their way back to some incoherent verdict...

Suffice to say there are all kinds of bad judges and bad RFD's, and you've talked about one of them, which I think is pretty uncontroversial. Just saying "[X] failed to meet [his/her] BOP." is meaningless. It might be the case, but unless that is explained, it's a vote that should be removed. The explanation doesn't even have to give an elaborate explanation of why... it just has to sufficiently say why.

Generally, I try to outline what exactly the burden is in any given debate and why, and then evaluate arguments after doing so. I think that's the most fair way to do it, because unless debaters know what they did or didn't hit, the RFD's utility to the debaters evaporates.
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