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Codedlogic
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7/5/2014 6:30:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
NO VOTES

Need votes for my debate. Con forfeited final round. Please help

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Humans Share a Common Ancestry with other Primates
whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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7/5/2014 9:41:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 6:30:12 AM, Codedlogic wrote:
NO VOTES

Need votes for my debate. Con forfeited final round. Please help

http://www.debate.org...

Humans Share a Common Ancestry with other Primates

We have a stickied thread specifically for unvoted debates, so please use that next time.

http://www.debate.org...
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/5/2014 9:50:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 9:41:23 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 6:30:12 AM, Codedlogic wrote:
NO VOTES

Need votes for my debate. Con forfeited final round. Please help

http://www.debate.org...

Humans Share a Common Ancestry with other Primates

We have a stickied thread specifically for unvoted debates, so please use that next time.

http://www.debate.org...

IMO, using this forum for votes is a better use for it instead of asking over PM. No one's going to look at the unvoted thread. Seriously, no one looks at it.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
whiteflame
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7/5/2014 9:54:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 9:50:39 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:41:23 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 6:30:12 AM, Codedlogic wrote:
NO VOTES

Need votes for my debate. Con forfeited final round. Please help

http://www.debate.org...

Humans Share a Common Ancestry with other Primates

We have a stickied thread specifically for unvoted debates, so please use that next time.

http://www.debate.org...

IMO, using this forum for votes is a better use for it instead of asking over PM. No one's going to look at the unvoted thread. Seriously, no one looks at it.

First off, it clutters this forum pretty heavily to use it for that purpose. If everyone decided it was worthwhile to post their unvoted debates here, it would dominate this forum. Second, there are people who do look at those unvoted debates in the thread, and I'm currently organizing a group that will ensure that most of them do get voted on. Third, bladerunner made it absolutely clear that, if a debate was going unvoted for too long, he would be willing to vote on it following a PM. He's now said it 3 times in his weekly addresses.
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/5/2014 9:55:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 9:54:40 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:50:39 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:41:23 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 6:30:12 AM, Codedlogic wrote:
NO VOTES

Need votes for my debate. Con forfeited final round. Please help

http://www.debate.org...

Humans Share a Common Ancestry with other Primates

We have a stickied thread specifically for unvoted debates, so please use that next time.

http://www.debate.org...

IMO, using this forum for votes is a better use for it instead of asking over PM. No one's going to look at the unvoted thread. Seriously, no one looks at it.

First off, it clutters this forum pretty heavily to use it for that purpose. If everyone decided it was worthwhile to post their unvoted debates here, it would dominate this forum. Second, there are people who do look at those unvoted debates in the thread, and I'm currently organizing a group that will ensure that most of them do get voted on. Third, bladerunner made it absolutely clear that, if a debate was going unvoted for too long, he would be willing to vote on it following a PM. He's now said it 3 times in his weekly addresses.

Bladerunner hasn't kept true to his promise so far.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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7/5/2014 9:57:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 9:55:45 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:54:40 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:50:39 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:41:23 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 6:30:12 AM, Codedlogic wrote:
NO VOTES

Need votes for my debate. Con forfeited final round. Please help

http://www.debate.org...

Humans Share a Common Ancestry with other Primates

We have a stickied thread specifically for unvoted debates, so please use that next time.

http://www.debate.org...

IMO, using this forum for votes is a better use for it instead of asking over PM. No one's going to look at the unvoted thread. Seriously, no one looks at it.

First off, it clutters this forum pretty heavily to use it for that purpose. If everyone decided it was worthwhile to post their unvoted debates here, it would dominate this forum. Second, there are people who do look at those unvoted debates in the thread, and I'm currently organizing a group that will ensure that most of them do get voted on. Third, bladerunner made it absolutely clear that, if a debate was going unvoted for too long, he would be willing to vote on it following a PM. He's now said it 3 times in his weekly addresses.

Bladerunner hasn't kept true to his promise so far.

It takes time to organize a voting group. But do you have examples of someone PMing him about a debate and him not voting on it (aside from his recent illness)? Because that's the only promise he's made that he could have feasibly kept in such a short time.
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/5/2014 9:58:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 9:57:42 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:55:45 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:54:40 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:50:39 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:41:23 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 6:30:12 AM, Codedlogic wrote:
NO VOTES

Need votes for my debate. Con forfeited final round. Please help

http://www.debate.org...

Humans Share a Common Ancestry with other Primates

We have a stickied thread specifically for unvoted debates, so please use that next time.

http://www.debate.org...

IMO, using this forum for votes is a better use for it instead of asking over PM. No one's going to look at the unvoted thread. Seriously, no one looks at it.

First off, it clutters this forum pretty heavily to use it for that purpose. If everyone decided it was worthwhile to post their unvoted debates here, it would dominate this forum. Second, there are people who do look at those unvoted debates in the thread, and I'm currently organizing a group that will ensure that most of them do get voted on. Third, bladerunner made it absolutely clear that, if a debate was going unvoted for too long, he would be willing to vote on it following a PM. He's now said it 3 times in his weekly addresses.

Bladerunner hasn't kept true to his promise so far.

It takes time to organize a voting group. But do you have examples of someone PMing him about a debate and him not voting on it (aside from his recent illness)? Because that's the only promise he's made that he could have feasibly kept in such a short time.

He said every debate would be voted on. That was his promise. Not every debate that's PM'd to him.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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7/5/2014 10:02:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 9:58:37 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:57:42 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:55:45 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:54:40 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:50:39 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:41:23 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 6:30:12 AM, Codedlogic wrote:
NO VOTES

Need votes for my debate. Con forfeited final round. Please help

http://www.debate.org...

Humans Share a Common Ancestry with other Primates

We have a stickied thread specifically for unvoted debates, so please use that next time.

http://www.debate.org...

IMO, using this forum for votes is a better use for it instead of asking over PM. No one's going to look at the unvoted thread. Seriously, no one looks at it.

First off, it clutters this forum pretty heavily to use it for that purpose. If everyone decided it was worthwhile to post their unvoted debates here, it would dominate this forum. Second, there are people who do look at those unvoted debates in the thread, and I'm currently organizing a group that will ensure that most of them do get voted on. Third, bladerunner made it absolutely clear that, if a debate was going unvoted for too long, he would be willing to vote on it following a PM. He's now said it 3 times in his weekly addresses.

Bladerunner hasn't kept true to his promise so far.

It takes time to organize a voting group. But do you have examples of someone PMing him about a debate and him not voting on it (aside from his recent illness)? Because that's the only promise he's made that he could have feasibly kept in such a short time.

He said every debate would be voted on. That was his promise. Not every debate that's PM'd to him.

So, wait. You expected that within the span of a few weeks, despite having dozens of other things to take care of, bladerunner should singlehandedly have dealt with one of the most daunting problems on the site? He and I are working on the problem, but the fact that that process is not yet complete is not a reason to go ahead and post every debate you feel needs a vote in this forum.
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/5/2014 10:09:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 10:02:49 AM, whiteflame wrote:
So, wait. You expected that within the span of a few weeks, despite having dozens of other things to take care of, bladerunner should singlehandedly have dealt with one of the most daunting problems on the site? He and I are working on the problem, but the fact that that process is not yet complete is not a reason to go ahead and post every debate you feel needs a vote in this forum.
That's what he promised. He said under his presidency, every debate would get a vote. So is there a time limit? Is it, every debate after 4 weeks? Every debate after 6 weeks? A campagn promise is a campaign promise. It is 3 weeks into his presidency, about a month, and he's failed to uphold it. This isn't "yes, but cut him some slack..". He made a promise and he's already failed to do it.

He should of had the voting structure developed BEFORE being elected.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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7/5/2014 10:15:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 10:09:23 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/5/2014 10:02:49 AM, whiteflame wrote:
So, wait. You expected that within the span of a few weeks, despite having dozens of other things to take care of, bladerunner should singlehandedly have dealt with one of the most daunting problems on the site? He and I are working on the problem, but the fact that that process is not yet complete is not a reason to go ahead and post every debate you feel needs a vote in this forum.
That's what he promised. He said under his presidency, every debate would get a vote. So is there a time limit? Is it, every debate after 4 weeks? Every debate after 6 weeks? A campagn promise is a campaign promise. It is 3 weeks into his presidency, about a month, and he's failed to uphold it. This isn't "yes, but cut him some slack..". He made a promise and he's already failed to do it.

He should of had the voting structure developed BEFORE being elected.

Yes, and God knows that when our presidents make a promise, we expect them to be immediate in implementing them, no matter how complex their implementation may be. You treat a campaign promise as a promise of immediacy as well, though I don't recall bladerunner ever saying that the policy would start functioning immediately after he'd assumed the office. Failure shouldn't be measured by the capacity to coordinate volunteers to take a up a job that will assume a great deal of their time within a short span of time. This isn't a presidency like the U.S. presidency. None of us are being hired to do a job, and yet we're all taking on extra workloads to improve the site.

As for starting it before he was elected, I think that would have been premature. It's hard to hold sway over other people when those other people don't even know if you'll actually be elected.
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/5/2014 10:21:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago

Yes, and God knows that when our presidents make a promise, we expect them to be immediate in implementing them, no matter how complex their implementation may be.
If your campaign promise is "I'll implement a better system of communication between DDO and Juggle", then I'll cut blade some slack.

You treat a campaign promise as a promise of immediacy as well, though I don't recall bladerunner ever saying that the policy would start functioning immediately after he'd assumed the office.

The campaign promise was that all debates would be voted on. Either all debates are voted on or they aren't. There is simply no excuse. Time isn't the issue. It's a simple yes or no. Did he or did he not make sure all debates were voted on? He already failed.

Failure shouldn't be measured by the capacity to coordinate volunteers to take a up a job that will assume a great deal of their time within a short span of time. This isn't a presidency like the U.S. presidency. None of us are being hired to do a job, and yet we're all taking on extra workloads to improve the site.
None the less, you either DID vote on all debates, or you DIDN'T vote on all debates. A promise is a promise, whether it's the US presidency of the DDO presidency.

As for starting it before he was elected, I think that would have been premature. It's hard to hold sway over other people when those other people don't even know if you'll actually be elected.

It doesn't matter. He either didn't think out what he promised or couldn't be bothered to devise a method beforehand. It's one or the latter. You promise something it must get done. I was willing to cut him slack the first two weeks debates didn't get votes, but it's been three. You either vote on all debate during your presidency, or you don't.

Not all debates were voted on, so he already failed us on his campaign promise.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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7/5/2014 10:31:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 10:21:43 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:

Yes, and God knows that when our presidents make a promise, we expect them to be immediate in implementing them, no matter how complex their implementation may be.
If your campaign promise is "I'll implement a better system of communication between DDO and Juggle", then I'll cut blade some slack.

What does that have to do with this conversation?


You treat a campaign promise as a promise of immediacy as well, though I don't recall bladerunner ever saying that the policy would start functioning immediately after he'd assumed the office.

The campaign promise was that all debates would be voted on. Either all debates are voted on or they aren't. There is simply no excuse. Time isn't the issue. It's a simple yes or no. Did he or did he not make sure all debates were voted on? He already failed.


So because something is not yet fully implemented, it's a failure? That's pretty harsh, not to mention incredibly unreasonable. The fact that the system isn't yet operative doesn't mean it's failed.

Failure shouldn't be measured by the capacity to coordinate volunteers to take a up a job that will assume a great deal of their time within a short span of time. This isn't a presidency like the U.S. presidency. None of us are being hired to do a job, and yet we're all taking on extra workloads to improve the site.
None the less, you either DID vote on all debates, or you DIDN'T vote on all debates. A promise is a promise, whether it's the US presidency of the DDO presidency.

It wasn't a promise of immediacy. You're calling something a failure before giving it a chance to be implemented. That's absurd.

As for starting it before he was elected, I think that would have been premature. It's hard to hold sway over other people when those other people don't even know if you'll actually be elected.

It doesn't matter. He either didn't think out what he promised or couldn't be bothered to devise a method beforehand. It's one or the latter. You promise something it must get done. I was willing to cut him slack the first two weeks debates didn't get votes, but it's been three. You either vote on all debate during your presidency, or you don't.

Not all debates were voted on, so he already failed us on his campaign promise.

Again, not a promise of immediacy. If you can show me where blade said that it would go into effect as soon as he got the office, then please, go ahead and do so. The best you can claim here is that he's been slow to implement it, but that doesn't make it a failure already.
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/5/2014 10:41:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 10:31:02 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 10:21:43 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:

Yes, and God knows that when our presidents make a promise, we expect them to be immediate in implementing them, no matter how complex their implementation may be.
If your campaign promise is "I'll implement a better system of communication between DDO and Juggle", then I'll cut blade some slack.

What does that have to do with this conversation?
It means that there are reform promises and yes or no it happened promises. Blade made a definite claim that all debates would get voted on. It DID NOT happen.


You treat a campaign promise as a promise of immediacy as well, though I don't recall bladerunner ever saying that the policy would start functioning immediately after he'd assumed the office.

The campaign promise was that all debates would be voted on. Either all debates are voted on or they aren't. There is simply no excuse. Time isn't the issue. It's a simple yes or no. Did he or did he not make sure all debates were voted on? He already failed.


So because something is not yet fully implemented, it's a failure?

It was yes or no, did he aintain his promise. He promised all debates would get voted on. It's been three weeks and it hasn't happened, so yes, it's a failure
That's pretty harsh, not to mention incredibly unreasonable. The fact that the system isn't yet operative doesn't mean it's failed.

It's not unreasonable. If he couldn't do it, then he shouldn't of made the promise. The system should of been ready and implimented the moment after he became president. Hell. he had two months to make and implement a system. (one during his campaign and one after he was elected president.

Failure shouldn't be measured by the capacity to coordinate volunteers to take a up a job that will assume a great deal of their time within a short span of time. This isn't a presidency like the U.S. presidency. None of us are being hired to do a job, and yet we're all taking on extra workloads to improve the site.
None the less, you either DID vote on all debates, or you DIDN'T vote on all debates. A promise is a promise, whether it's the US presidency of the DDO presidency.

It wasn't a promise of immediacy.

Your using repetition, so I will as well. He said, and I quote, that he would vote on ALL debates during his presidency. ALL debates were not voted on. He made a promise that he couldn't keep. He already failed.
You're calling something a failure before giving it a chance to be implemented. That's absurd.

No, it's not absurd. It's spot on. He had a month to impliment a system where all debates would get voted on. If you can't vote on ALL debates, then don't say you will vote on ALL debates. Say all debates after three weeks of my presidency.

There is no excuse whiteflame. If you say all debates will be voted on during your presidency, then all debates that occur during your presidency need to be voted on.

As for starting it before he was elected, I think that would have been premature. It's hard to hold sway over other people when those other people don't even know if you'll actually be elected.

It doesn't matter. He either didn't think out what he promised or couldn't be bothered to devise a method beforehand. It's one or the latter. You promise something it must get done. I was willing to cut him slack the first two weeks debates didn't get votes, but it's been three. You either vote on all debate during your presidency, or you don't.

Not all debates were voted on, so he already failed us on his campaign promise.

Again, not a promise of immediacy.

Time has nothing to do with it. Listen, and stop acting like a brick. ALL debates during my presidency. This is a definite claim. It either did or didn't happen. If even one debate goes without a vote, then he failed his unrealistic and impossible promise.

If you can show me where blade said that it would go into effect as soon as he got the office, then please, go ahead and do so. The best you can claim here is that he's been slow to implement it, but that doesn't make it a failure already.
He said in this campaign forum, and I quote "That no debate will go unvoted". When does this take place? All debates after two months? All debates after three months? Yes, this is a claim of immediacy.

http://www.debate.org...
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
whiteflame
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7/5/2014 10:59:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 10:41:43 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/5/2014 10:31:02 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 10:21:43 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:

Yes, and God knows that when our presidents make a promise, we expect them to be immediate in implementing them, no matter how complex their implementation may be.
If your campaign promise is "I'll implement a better system of communication between DDO and Juggle", then I'll cut blade some slack.

What does that have to do with this conversation?
It means that there are reform promises and yes or no it happened promises. Blade made a definite claim that all debates would get voted on. It DID NOT happen.

"Did not" and "has not" are two very different statements.


You treat a campaign promise as a promise of immediacy as well, though I don't recall bladerunner ever saying that the policy would start functioning immediately after he'd assumed the office.

The campaign promise was that all debates would be voted on. Either all debates are voted on or they aren't. There is simply no excuse. Time isn't the issue. It's a simple yes or no. Did he or did he not make sure all debates were voted on? He already failed.


So because something is not yet fully implemented, it's a failure?

It was yes or no, did he aintain his promise. He promised all debates would get voted on. It's been three weeks and it hasn't happened, so yes, it's a failure

If the "failure" you're talking about is implementation within this period of time, then yes, he's failed. But that's assuming a campaign promise that never existed. That's assuming a time frame was explicitly stated. You're putting words in his mouth.

That's pretty harsh, not to mention incredibly unreasonable. The fact that the system isn't yet operative doesn't mean it's failed.

It's not unreasonable. If he couldn't do it, then he shouldn't of made the promise. The system should of been ready and implimented the moment after he became president. Hell. he had two months to make and implement a system. (one during his campaign and one after he was elected president.

There's that word again - promise. You're ascribing a promise to him that he never made. He made the promise that he would ensure that all debates were voted on at some point following the start of his presidency. To assume that that meant that he would ensure instant implementation, or even certain implementation within a given time frame you think is reasonable is absurd.

Failure shouldn't be measured by the capacity to coordinate volunteers to take a up a job that will assume a great deal of their time within a short span of time. This isn't a presidency like the U.S. presidency. None of us are being hired to do a job, and yet we're all taking on extra workloads to improve the site.
None the less, you either DID vote on all debates, or you DIDN'T vote on all debates. A promise is a promise, whether it's the US presidency of the DDO presidency.

It wasn't a promise of immediacy.

Your using repetition, so I will as well. He said, and I quote, that he would vote on ALL debates during his presidency. ALL debates were not voted on. He made a promise that he couldn't keep. He already failed.
You're calling something a failure before giving it a chance to be implemented. That's absurd.

No, it's not absurd. It's spot on. He had a month to impliment a system where all debates would get voted on. If you can't vote on ALL debates, then don't say you will vote on ALL debates. Say all debates after three weeks of my presidency.

There is no excuse whiteflame. If you say all debates will be voted on during your presidency, then all debates that occur during your presidency need to be voted on.

Let's assume he had a month. He had a month to organize a group of volunteers (and, please note, we are all volunteers) to do a job that was certain to be difficult in the first place. Call it an excuse, call it whatever you want, but it's an unreasonable demand to state that he needs to implement it within the time period you deem reasonable when it's dependent on a number of other factors that he absolutely has no control over.

As for starting it before he was elected, I think that would have been premature. It's hard to hold sway over other people when those other people don't even know if you'll actually be elected.

It doesn't matter. He either didn't think out what he promised or couldn't be bothered to devise a method beforehand. It's one or the latter. You promise something it must get done. I was willing to cut him slack the first two weeks debates didn't get votes, but it's been three. You either vote on all debate during your presidency, or you don't.

Not all debates were voted on, so he already failed us on his campaign promise.

Again, not a promise of immediacy.

Time has nothing to do with it. Listen, and stop acting like a brick. ALL debates during my presidency. This is a definite claim. It either did or didn't happen. If even one debate goes without a vote, then he failed his unrealistic and impossible promise.

That's BS, dude. Now you're just showing that you're interpreting his promise in the most unreasonable fashion imaginable. If this is how you're going to view it, then you're absolutely being unreasonable.

If you can show me where blade said that it would go into effect as soon as he got the office, then please, go ahead and do so. The best you can claim here is that he's been slow to implement it, but that doesn't make it a failure already.
He said in this campaign forum, and I quote "That no debate will go unvoted". When does this take place? All debates after two months? All debates after three months? Yes, this is a claim of immediacy.

http://www.debate.org...

Hmmm... I missed the part where he said, "from the moment I enter office, I will ensure that no debate goes unvoted." Care to quote where he said that?
KingDebater
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7/5/2014 12:41:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 9:41:23 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 6:30:12 AM, Codedlogic wrote:
NO VOTES

Need votes for my debate. Con forfeited final round. Please help

http://www.debate.org...

Humans Share a Common Ancestry with other Primates

We have a stickied thread specifically for unvoted debates, so please use that next time.

http://www.debate.org...
but this thread is better !!
doomswatter
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7/8/2014 10:46:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Whiteflame, whether or not it is reasonable to expect Bladerunner to fulfill the requirements of his promise, he still made the promise. He did not promise to increase the number of voted debates, nor did he promise to work on a system that would eventually improve the situation. He specifically stated, "So if I should win, I promise: That no debate will go unvoted." He won, yet debates have gone unvoted, therefore he did not keep his promise.

I understand the difficulty of keeping such a promise, and I appreciate all of the hard work that is being put into improving things, but Bladerunner said what he said. There is a big difference between saying, "It is my goal that no debate go unvoted. If I am elected, I will work to make this happen", and saying, "If I am elected, no debate will go unvoted".
"You are an irritating fly, and my sword is the flyswatter of your doom." - Sir Chivalot
whiteflame
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7/8/2014 11:32:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 10:46:26 AM, doomswatter wrote:
Whiteflame, whether or not it is reasonable to expect Bladerunner to fulfill the requirements of his promise, he still made the promise. He did not promise to increase the number of voted debates, nor did he promise to work on a system that would eventually improve the situation. He specifically stated, "So if I should win, I promise: That no debate will go unvoted." He won, yet debates have gone unvoted, therefore he did not keep his promise.

I understand the difficulty of keeping such a promise, and I appreciate all of the hard work that is being put into improving things, but Bladerunner said what he said. There is a big difference between saying, "It is my goal that no debate go unvoted. If I am elected, I will work to make this happen", and saying, "If I am elected, no debate will go unvoted".

It seems you're assuming immediate implementation as well. His promise wasn't that, the moment he got the presidency, he would ensure that every debate was voted upon. His promise was that he would put into place mechanisms to ensure that no debate goes unvoted. That's how I interpreted the quote you provided. If your view is, like Chosen's, that he failed in the first hour of the first day he entered office, then you're taking the most unreasonable interpretation of that statement.

If, over the course of his presidency, he fails to deliver on that promise and some debates continue to go unvoted, then he will have failed. But you're saying he failed before he even gets the chance to implement, based on a suspect interpretation of his words. The reality is that he is working on it. Whether that meets yours or Chosen's standards of what his campaign promise amounted to is nothing but semantics.
doomswatter
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7/8/2014 12:00:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 11:32:25 AM, whiteflame wrote:

It seems you're assuming immediate implementation as well. His promise wasn't that, the moment he got the presidency, he would ensure that every debate was voted upon. His promise was that he would put into place mechanisms to ensure that no debate goes unvoted. That's how I interpreted the quote you provided. If your view is, like Chosen's, that he failed in the first hour of the first day he entered office, then you're taking the most unreasonable interpretation of that statement.

If, over the course of his presidency, he fails to deliver on that promise and some debates continue to go unvoted, then he will have failed. But you're saying he failed before he even gets the chance to implement, based on a suspect interpretation of his words. The reality is that he is working on it. Whether that meets yours or Chosen's standards of what his campaign promise amounted to is nothing but semantics.

I understand your point, but I'm afraid that Bladerunner's wording allowed our interpretation, no matter how unreasonable you may believe it to be. If I say, "Take my hand and no harm will come to you", are you being unreasonable to expect immediate implementation? Is it reasonable for me to punch you in the face because I didn't mean that no harm would come to you right away, just at some point in the future? Of course not. When you get married, and your spouse promises to not have sex with other people, does that mean that they will stop having extramarital sex at some point in the future? They didn't say they'd implement right away, after all.

You are interpreting his statements unreasonably because you are granting allowances that his wording does not allow. You are assuming that everyone else would assume a gradual implementation of a developing system, rather than the immediate results that Bladerunner's promise implies. He said that if he won the presidency, then no debate would go unvoted. He won, the "if" has been fulfilled, but the "then" has not.

I'm not saying Bladerunner should have been able to keep his promise, or even that he meant for his promise to be what it originally was. I'm just saying that Chosen is right in reading Bladerunner's statement exactly the way it was stated. It's not really semantics. Just a literal interpretation.
"You are an irritating fly, and my sword is the flyswatter of your doom." - Sir Chivalot
whiteflame
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7/8/2014 12:35:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:00:42 PM, doomswatter wrote:
At 7/8/2014 11:32:25 AM, whiteflame wrote:

It seems you're assuming immediate implementation as well. His promise wasn't that, the moment he got the presidency, he would ensure that every debate was voted upon. His promise was that he would put into place mechanisms to ensure that no debate goes unvoted. That's how I interpreted the quote you provided. If your view is, like Chosen's, that he failed in the first hour of the first day he entered office, then you're taking the most unreasonable interpretation of that statement.

If, over the course of his presidency, he fails to deliver on that promise and some debates continue to go unvoted, then he will have failed. But you're saying he failed before he even gets the chance to implement, based on a suspect interpretation of his words. The reality is that he is working on it. Whether that meets yours or Chosen's standards of what his campaign promise amounted to is nothing but semantics.

I understand your point, but I'm afraid that Bladerunner's wording allowed our interpretation, no matter how unreasonable you may believe it to be. If I say, "Take my hand and no harm will come to you", are you being unreasonable to expect immediate implementation? Is it reasonable for me to punch you in the face because I didn't mean that no harm would come to you right away, just at some point in the future? Of course not. When you get married, and your spouse promises to not have sex with other people, does that mean that they will stop having extramarital sex at some point in the future? They didn't say they'd implement right away, after all.

You are interpreting his statements unreasonably because you are granting allowances that his wording does not allow. You are assuming that everyone else would assume a gradual implementation of a developing system, rather than the immediate results that Bladerunner's promise implies. He said that if he won the presidency, then no debate would go unvoted. He won, the "if" has been fulfilled, but the "then" has not.

I'm not saying Bladerunner should have been able to keep his promise, or even that he meant for his promise to be what it originally was. I'm just saying that Chosen is right in reading Bladerunner's statement exactly the way it was stated. It's not really semantics. Just a literal interpretation.

I agree that bladerunner's statements allowed your interpretation, and I'm saying that it's the least realistic or reasonable interpretation available, and as such is not the most rational interpretation of his words. Your analogies are nonsensical, since each of them can be acted upon immediately and is within a realm of reasonability. In both cases, you're also talking about instances of actively doing the opposite of the promise made. It doesn't suddenly become OK to punch someone just after you promised to protect them, even if you meant that that protection would apply at some future date (which seems odd given pretty much any context, since a hand would be conceivably offered on the spot). A marriage contract (at least with a prenup) holds both members of the relationship to a monogamous relationship and comes with consequences if they fail to do so. Signing that contract is immediately binding.

That's not the same for a campaign promise. Obama promised health care reforms. The fact that it took him a significant amount of time to deliver doesn't make him a failure. There are realities to that situation that delay implementation. In that way, the context of his promise ensures that it will not be immediately accomplished. I'd say that's far more akin to this circumstance.

Tell me, what does the wording "not allow"? Is there an obvious statement of when implementation will occur? I see that he promises, following his election, that all debates will get votes. You've chosen to add an "effective immediately" onto the end of that statement. I, and many others, view that addition as unreasonable. Leaving the statement's implemention open is a more reasonable view, in my estimation. Your choice to select one possible time frame as your interpretation doesn't make mine problematic.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/8/2014 2:40:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 9:50:39 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:41:23 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 6:30:12 AM, Codedlogic wrote:
NO VOTES

Need votes for my debate. Con forfeited final round. Please help

http://www.debate.org...

Humans Share a Common Ancestry with other Primates

We have a stickied thread specifically for unvoted debates, so please use that next time.

http://www.debate.org...

IMO, using this forum for votes is a better use for it instead of asking over PM. No one's going to look at the unvoted thread. Seriously, no one looks at it.

I look at it
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/8/2014 2:49:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
@Whiteflame, You're way to patient with these sub human types. They will never understand what you're saying, it doesn't matter how much you break it down.
whiteflame
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7/8/2014 3:07:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 2:49:49 PM, Wylted wrote:
@Whiteflame, You're way to patient with these sub human types. They will never understand what you're saying, it doesn't matter how much you break it down.

Well, past this point, I don't think there's anything more I can say, so I'll probably leave off here. I figure since both of them have it very solidly in their minds that the only way bladerunner could satisfy his campaign promise is to ensure that, from moment one, all debates have votes, I don't think there's much that can be done here. If you guys feel that way, there's little chance I can change either of your minds on the issue.
doomswatter
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7/8/2014 3:22:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 2:49:49 PM, Wylted wrote:
@Whiteflame, You're way to patient with these sub human types. They will never understand what you're saying, it doesn't matter how much you break it down.

Thanks, Wylted. I love how I can't even spend time on a site devoted to thinking without an esteemed member thoughtlessly insulting me.

At 7/8/2014 3:07:03 PM, whiteflame wrote:
Well, past this point, I don't think there's anything more I can say, so I'll probably leave off here. I figure since both of them have it very solidly in their minds that the only way bladerunner could satisfy his campaign promise is to ensure that, from moment one, all debates have votes, I don't think there's much that can be done here. If you guys feel that way, there's little chance I can change either of your minds on the issue.

Whiteflame, if you're tired of debating, that's fine. But it's silly to allege that, since I already have an opinion, my opinion can not be changed. Perhaps you only mean that you can not change it, and perhaps you are correct, considering how eager you are to write me off.
"You are an irritating fly, and my sword is the flyswatter of your doom." - Sir Chivalot
Wylted
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7/8/2014 3:43:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 3:22:22 PM, doomswatter wrote:
At 7/8/2014 2:49:49 PM, Wylted wrote:
@Whiteflame, You're way to patient with these sub human types. They will never understand what you're saying, it doesn't matter how much you break it down.

Thanks, Wylted. I love how I can't even spend time on a site devoted to thinking without an esteemed member thoughtlessly insulting me.

At 7/8/2014 3:07:03 PM, whiteflame wrote:
Well, past this point, I don't think there's anything more I can say, so I'll probably leave off here. I figure since both of them have it very solidly in their minds that the only way bladerunner could satisfy his campaign promise is to ensure that, from moment one, all debates have votes, I don't think there's much that can be done here. If you guys feel that way, there's little chance I can change either of your minds on the issue.

Whiteflame, if you're tired of debating, that's fine. But it's silly to allege that, since I already have an opinion, my opinion can not be changed. Perhaps you only mean that you can not change it, and perhaps you are correct, considering how eager you are to write me off.

I had no ideal I was an esteemed member. If that's the case, I'm sorry. However, I don't see myself in that light and don't want the responsibilty of being in high standing.
whiteflame
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7/8/2014 3:54:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 3:22:22 PM, doomswatter wrote:
At 7/8/2014 2:49:49 PM, Wylted wrote:
@Whiteflame, You're way to patient with these sub human types. They will never understand what you're saying, it doesn't matter how much you break it down.

Thanks, Wylted. I love how I can't even spend time on a site devoted to thinking without an esteemed member thoughtlessly insulting me.

At 7/8/2014 3:07:03 PM, whiteflame wrote:
Well, past this point, I don't think there's anything more I can say, so I'll probably leave off here. I figure since both of them have it very solidly in their minds that the only way bladerunner could satisfy his campaign promise is to ensure that, from moment one, all debates have votes, I don't think there's much that can be done here. If you guys feel that way, there's little chance I can change either of your minds on the issue.

Whiteflame, if you're tired of debating, that's fine. But it's silly to allege that, since I already have an opinion, my opinion can not be changed. Perhaps you only mean that you can not change it, and perhaps you are correct, considering how eager you are to write me off.

I'm tired of repeating myself, as I have since the first post in response to Chosen's claim. It's obvious that you won't change your mind on this issue, no matter what I say, since that's your perception of bladerunner's post. Maybe it's the tack I'm taking, but I'm really not sure how I can convince you when you tell me that my view of the way these words work is "not allowed." But I'm not writing you off. At least you decided to engage with my points, even though we still disagree. I think your points have merit, and that you're making the argument far better than Chosen, I just don't think they're a reasonable interpretation of bladerunner's words, and I'm sure he'd agree with me.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,290
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7/8/2014 4:23:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 9:50:39 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:41:23 AM, whiteflame wrote:
At 7/5/2014 6:30:12 AM, Codedlogic wrote:
NO VOTES

Need votes for my debate. Con forfeited final round. Please help

http://www.debate.org...

Humans Share a Common Ancestry with other Primates

We have a stickied thread specifically for unvoted debates, so please use that next time.

http://www.debate.org...

IMO, using this forum for votes is a better use for it instead of asking over PM. No one's going to look at the unvoted thread. Seriously, no one looks at it.

I look at it all the time, and I've never failed to have a debate I posted there voted on.
Romanii
Posts: 4,864
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7/8/2014 4:29:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What are you guys talking about? I always get anywhere from 1 to 10 votes on any debate I post in the stickied thread, depending on length...Users like Lannan13, Wylted, Zarroette, and RaymondReddington regularly check it.
doomswatter
Posts: 47
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7/8/2014 4:38:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 3:43:07 PM, Wylted wrote:

I had no ideal I was an esteemed member. If that's the case, I'm sorry. However, I don't see myself in that light and don't want the responsibilty of being in high standing.

Oh, so I should have expected the insult because you're irresponsible and in low standing. Got it.
"You are an irritating fly, and my sword is the flyswatter of your doom." - Sir Chivalot
doomswatter
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7/8/2014 4:43:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 3:54:49 PM, whiteflame wrote:

I'm tired of repeating myself, as I have since the first post in response to Chosen's claim. It's obvious that you won't change your mind on this issue, no matter what I say, since that's your perception of bladerunner's post. Maybe it's the tack I'm taking, but I'm really not sure how I can convince you when you tell me that my view of the way these words work is "not allowed." But I'm not writing you off. At least you decided to engage with my points, even though we still disagree. I think your points have merit, and that you're making the argument far better than Chosen, I just don't think they're a reasonable interpretation of bladerunner's words, and I'm sure he'd agree with me.

Thanks. That was a respectful response. I'm sure that bladerunner didn't mean it that way, but if his promise were a debate resolution I believe he would lose. Anyway, whatever. Nice talking to you.
"You are an irritating fly, and my sword is the flyswatter of your doom." - Sir Chivalot