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Petition Against View Bombing

LogicalLunatic
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7/7/2014 3:00:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jifpop's recent debate has, by his own admission, accumulated thousands upon thousands of views by means of people rapidly refreshing the page over and over again.
I forward the idea that "View Bombing" should be against the Site rules.

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LogicalLunatic
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7/7/2014 3:08:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 3:00:47 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
Jifpop's recent debate has, by his own admission, accumulated thousands upon thousands of views by means of people rapidly refreshing the page over and over again.
I forward the idea that "View Bombing" should be against the Site rules.

1. LogicalLunatic
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(Note: If this fills up, then feel free to add more numbers)
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Blade-of-Truth
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7/7/2014 3:20:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I already asked if it was against the rules, and got no response.

I also see no issue with it.

Why exactly are you against such things as view bombing?
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LogicalLunatic
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7/7/2014 3:32:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 3:20:35 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I already asked if it was against the rules, and got no response.

I also see no issue with it.

Why exactly are you against such things as view bombing?

Let me ask you this: if you made a debate that was viewed one million times (the right way), wouldn't you be proud of that? Wouldn't other people's opinion of you go up? I have heard that a lot of Imabench's popularity came from a popular debate called "Poop has DNA."
That in mind, imagine if some user figured out a way to automatically increase his ELO 100 points by pressing "Control-Alt-Delete". Imagine that then everyone started doing this. How would Mikal, who got his ELO through hours of hard debating, feel about this?
Do you get my point? This is not against the rules, but it very well should be.
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ChosenWolff
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7/7/2014 3:33:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This was a call out thread. Either way, the view count actually doesn't matter. No one cares about it.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
LogicalLunatic
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7/7/2014 3:36:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 3:33:58 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
This was a call out thread. Either way, the view count actually doesn't matter. No one cares about it.

Ask Massive Dump if he cares that his debate "Apple is the best Pony" got over a million views. That is part of his legacy on this Site.
And no, this thread is not just about you. Yours is probably just one of many debates which have been View Bombed unfairly.
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Linkish1O2
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7/7/2014 3:36:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And In the famous word of my idol I quote.
"And here we GO"
"I am a mystery and to unlock the mystery at my core, one must simply embrace slendermans hug with no fear."- me

"I hearby declare myself a phantom in the darkness."-me
LogicalLunatic
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7/7/2014 3:37:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 3:36:38 PM, Linkish1O2 wrote:
And In the famous word of my idol I quote.
"And here we GO"

Huh?
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ChosenWolff
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7/7/2014 3:37:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 3:36:16 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/7/2014 3:33:58 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
This was a call out thread. Either way, the view count actually doesn't matter. No one cares about it.

Ask Massive Dump if he cares that his debate "Apple is the best Pony" got over a million views. That is part of his legacy on this Site.
And no, this thread is not just about you. Yours is probably just one of many debates which have been View Bombed unfairly.
His debate got 1.25 million views likely through view bombing as well. There's no other logical explanation. (pressing F5 that many times is a lot of work btw) (I wasn't the one doing it)
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Linkish1O2
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7/7/2014 3:38:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 3:37:23 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/7/2014 3:36:38 PM, Linkish1O2 wrote:
And In the famous word of my idol I quote.
"And here we GO"

Huh?

Joker dude.
"I am a mystery and to unlock the mystery at my core, one must simply embrace slendermans hug with no fear."- me

"I hearby declare myself a phantom in the darkness."-me
ChosenWolff
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7/7/2014 3:39:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
In my defense, I wasn't the one pressing F5 (4 people were). It was actually a spectator, who isn't liable, who used autorefresh software.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
LogicalLunatic
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7/7/2014 3:40:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 3:39:00 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
In my defense, I wasn't the one pressing F5 (4 people were). It was actually a spectator, who isn't liable, who used autorefresh software.

Whether or not what happened was your fault, I still think that debate should be deleted.
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Linkish1O2
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7/7/2014 3:40:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 3:39:00 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
In my defense, I wasn't the one pressing F5 (4 people were). It was actually a spectator, who isn't liable, who used autorefresh software.

Dude don't worry yourself about it. You need to calm down. It's just views.
"I am a mystery and to unlock the mystery at my core, one must simply embrace slendermans hug with no fear."- me

"I hearby declare myself a phantom in the darkness."-me
000ike
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7/7/2014 3:41:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 3:00:47 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
Jifpop's recent debate has, by his own admission, accumulated thousands upon thousands of views by means of people rapidly refreshing the page over and over again.
I forward the idea that "View Bombing" should be against the Site rules.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
(Note: If this fills up, then feel free to add more numbers)

This isn't a waste of your time?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
LogicalLunatic
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7/7/2014 3:41:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 3:41:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 7/7/2014 3:00:47 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
Jifpop's recent debate has, by his own admission, accumulated thousands upon thousands of views by means of people rapidly refreshing the page over and over again.
I forward the idea that "View Bombing" should be against the Site rules.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
(Note: If this fills up, then feel free to add more numbers)

This isn't a waste of your time?

It probably is.
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JohnMaynardKeynes
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7/7/2014 4:09:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I can understand why someone would be angry about view bombing, but I think by banning it, you're really banning someone taking (read: wasting) hours of their own free time hitting the refresh button on a debate. It's not exactly the most vile thing I could think of, but I just find it silly.

I actually thought this was a petition against votebombing initially but I misread the title. Now THAT I find to be a problem lol. We should have a petition against that.
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LogicalLunatic
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7/7/2014 4:12:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 4:09:30 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
I can understand why someone would be angry about view bombing, but I think by banning it, you're really banning someone taking (read: wasting) hours of their own free time hitting the refresh button on a debate. It's not exactly the most vile thing I could think of, but I just find it silly.

I actually thought this was a petition against votebombing initially but I misread the title. Now THAT I find to be a problem lol. We should have a petition against that.

There's probably been more than one such petition, likely initiated by GWL-CPA.
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JohnMaynardKeynes
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7/7/2014 4:14:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 4:12:20 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/7/2014 4:09:30 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
I can understand why someone would be angry about view bombing, but I think by banning it, you're really banning someone taking (read: wasting) hours of their own free time hitting the refresh button on a debate. It's not exactly the most vile thing I could think of, but I just find it silly.

I actually thought this was a petition against votebombing initially but I misread the title. Now THAT I find to be a problem lol. We should have a petition against that.

There's probably been more than one such petition, likely initiated by GWL-CPA.

Yeah, I'm sure. I think it's already against the site rules, but people can find ways to tailor their RFD so it's technically legitimate. I feel like that's what we should be discussing lol.
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

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LogicalLunatic
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7/7/2014 4:15:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 4:14:05 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 7/7/2014 4:12:20 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/7/2014 4:09:30 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
I can understand why someone would be angry about view bombing, but I think by banning it, you're really banning someone taking (read: wasting) hours of their own free time hitting the refresh button on a debate. It's not exactly the most vile thing I could think of, but I just find it silly.

I actually thought this was a petition against votebombing initially but I misread the title. Now THAT I find to be a problem lol. We should have a petition against that.

There's probably been more than one such petition, likely initiated by GWL-CPA.

Yeah, I'm sure. I think it's already against the site rules, but people can find ways to tailor their RFD so it's technically legitimate. I feel like that's what we should be discussing lol.

Vote-Bombing is already illegal; View-Bombing is not.
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JohnMaynardKeynes
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7/7/2014 4:18:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 4:15:47 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/7/2014 4:14:05 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 7/7/2014 4:12:20 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/7/2014 4:09:30 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
I can understand why someone would be angry about view bombing, but I think by banning it, you're really banning someone taking (read: wasting) hours of their own free time hitting the refresh button on a debate. It's not exactly the most vile thing I could think of, but I just find it silly.

I actually thought this was a petition against votebombing initially but I misread the title. Now THAT I find to be a problem lol. We should have a petition against that.

There's probably been more than one such petition, likely initiated by GWL-CPA.

Yeah, I'm sure. I think it's already against the site rules, but people can find ways to tailor their RFD so it's technically legitimate. I feel like that's what we should be discussing lol.

Vote-Bombing is already illegal; View-Bombing is not.

It's illegal technically, but people can still do it. You're right on view bombing, so far as I know. I guess I just don't see it as a major problem.
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

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Blade-of-Truth
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7/7/2014 4:30:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 3:32:29 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/7/2014 3:20:35 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I already asked if it was against the rules, and got no response.

I also see no issue with it.

Why exactly are you against such things as view bombing?

Let me ask you this: if you made a debate that was viewed one million times (the right way), wouldn't you be proud of that? Wouldn't other people's opinion of you go up? I have heard that a lot of Imabench's popularity came from a popular debate called "Poop has DNA."
That in mind, imagine if some user figured out a way to automatically increase his ELO 100 points by pressing "Control-Alt-Delete". Imagine that then everyone started doing this. How would Mikal, who got his ELO through hours of hard debating, feel about this?
Do you get my point? This is not against the rules, but it very well should be.

I get your point.

The example of Elo is different though, because Elo is something that the site put into effect in order to give an additional gauge for weighing one's ability (although that is certainly debatable in itself). Views currently have no weight, in terms of weighing one's ability in debates.

At this point, I think the difference is that people don't necessarily attach the same value to views as they would towards Elo.

If this is an issue about making view bombing against the ToS, your best bet is to just PM Airmax or Ore_Ele. To me, it sounds like a personal issue though, not a site-wide dilemma that calls for petitions to be created.
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LogicalLunatic
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7/7/2014 4:38:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 4:30:16 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/7/2014 3:32:29 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/7/2014 3:20:35 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I already asked if it was against the rules, and got no response.

I also see no issue with it.

Why exactly are you against such things as view bombing?

Let me ask you this: if you made a debate that was viewed one million times (the right way), wouldn't you be proud of that? Wouldn't other people's opinion of you go up? I have heard that a lot of Imabench's popularity came from a popular debate called "Poop has DNA."
That in mind, imagine if some user figured out a way to automatically increase his ELO 100 points by pressing "Control-Alt-Delete". Imagine that then everyone started doing this. How would Mikal, who got his ELO through hours of hard debating, feel about this?
Do you get my point? This is not against the rules, but it very well should be.

I get your point.

The example of Elo is different though, because Elo is something that the site put into effect in order to give an additional gauge for weighing one's ability (although that is certainly debatable in itself). Views currently have no weight, in terms of weighing one's ability in debates.

At this point, I think the difference is that people don't necessarily attach the same value to views as they would towards Elo.

If this is an issue about making view bombing against the ToS, your best bet is to just PM Airmax or Ore_Ele. To me, it sounds like a personal issue though, not a site-wide dilemma that calls for petitions to be created.

When a debate has a lot of views without the aid of View Bombing, it means that people are interested in the debate. If not, they wouldn't all be watching the debate. Also, a debate can have an infinite amount of viewers, while a user (as of so far) can only have 9000 ELO. ELO is an accumulation of a user's victories; a debate with a lot of views (without View Bombing) is a debate worth watching. Also, some other Sites (such as YouTube) prohibit View Bombing.
So therefore, I would argue that Views do have enough significance to make View Bombing something that should be banned, or at least discouraged.
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Blade-of-Truth
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7/7/2014 4:51:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 4:38:00 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/7/2014 4:30:16 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 7/7/2014 3:32:29 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/7/2014 3:20:35 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I already asked if it was against the rules, and got no response.

I also see no issue with it.

Why exactly are you against such things as view bombing?

Let me ask you this: if you made a debate that was viewed one million times (the right way), wouldn't you be proud of that? Wouldn't other people's opinion of you go up? I have heard that a lot of Imabench's popularity came from a popular debate called "Poop has DNA."
That in mind, imagine if some user figured out a way to automatically increase his ELO 100 points by pressing "Control-Alt-Delete". Imagine that then everyone started doing this. How would Mikal, who got his ELO through hours of hard debating, feel about this?
Do you get my point? This is not against the rules, but it very well should be.

I get your point.

The example of Elo is different though, because Elo is something that the site put into effect in order to give an additional gauge for weighing one's ability (although that is certainly debatable in itself). Views currently have no weight, in terms of weighing one's ability in debates.

At this point, I think the difference is that people don't necessarily attach the same value to views as they would towards Elo.

If this is an issue about making view bombing against the ToS, your best bet is to just PM Airmax or Ore_Ele. To me, it sounds like a personal issue though, not a site-wide dilemma that calls for petitions to be created.

When a debate has a lot of views without the aid of View Bombing, it means that people are interested in the debate. If not, they wouldn't all be watching the debate. Also, a debate can have an infinite amount of viewers, while a user (as of so far) can only have 9000 ELO. ELO is an accumulation of a user's victories; a debate with a lot of views (without View Bombing) is a debate worth watching. Also, some other Sites (such as YouTube) prohibit View Bombing.
So therefore, I would argue that Views do have enough significance to make View Bombing something that should be banned, or at least discouraged.

You are attaching value to the perceived interest of others in any certain debate. I can respect that.

I still believe this is an issue you should bring up to the Mods before making it public, or at-least garner support behind the scenes before bringing it to the forefront.

As for the Youtube comparison, video producers have two means of gauging the value of their videos there, likes & view count. Perhaps if all we had were the view counts and the favorite button, then it'd be a more serious issue. For now though, DDO has several other means of gauging the value of debates here with view counts being one of the lesser valued gauges.

Perhaps if more individuals started perceiving the view count as a greater determinant of the quality of the debate, then this would be a more pressing issue. For now though, it seems like there are only a handful of people who share the same concerns as you, and even then they aren't signing this petition.

I'd take this movement underground for the time being, or at-least see what the mods have to say about it first before making such an issue out of this. The element of community support is lacking right now in terms of this issue being important.
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ESocialBookworm
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7/7/2014 6:04:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
So... to sum things up, you want to start a petition... to ban view bombing... And delete a debate that someone is going to work really hard on?
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LogicalLunatic
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7/7/2014 6:33:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 6:04:00 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
So... to sum things up, you want to start a petition... to ban view bombing... And delete a debate that someone is going to work really hard on?

Yeah, he worked hard all right...at clicking the refresh button over and over again.
However, this isn't about Jifpop. It was his debate which brought the issue to my attention, though.
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LogicalLunatic
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7/28/2014 9:53:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 3:00:47 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
Jifpop's recent debate has, by his own admission, accumulated thousands upon thousands of views by means of people rapidly refreshing the page over and over again.
I forward the idea that "View Bombing" should be against the Site rules.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
(Note: If this fills up, then feel free to add more numbers)
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

Atheist Logic: http://www.debate.org...

Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...