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I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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3/2/2010 10:22:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 9:26:02 AM, philosphical wrote:
Funny how Askbob blatantly ignores all of his comments. Your a great guy!

I know the same grammar rules as a 5 year old!!
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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3/2/2010 10:23:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 10:22:40 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/2/2010 9:26:02 AM, philosphical wrote:
I know the same grammar rules as a 5 year old!!Funny how Askbob blatantly ignores all of his comments. Your a great guy!



Fix'd
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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3/2/2010 11:12:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 9:26:02 AM, philosphical wrote:
Funny how Askbob blatantly ignores all of his comments. Your a great guy!

I don't think askbob ever directly threatened to beat you up. What he said was trash talk, what you said was a direct physical threat.
philosphical
Posts: 1,643
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3/2/2010 11:13:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 10:22:40 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/2/2010 9:26:02 AM, philosphical wrote:
Funny how Askbob blatantly ignores all of his comments. Your a great guy!

I know the same grammar rules as a 5 year old!!

What the heck are you talking about?
Your mouths writing checks that your @ss can't cash!
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/2/2010 11:15:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 11:13:29 AM, philosphical wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:22:40 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/2/2010 9:26:02 AM, philosphical wrote:
Funny how Askbob blatantly ignores all of his comments. Your a great guy!

I know the same grammar rules as a 5 year old!!

What the heck are you talking about?

Your should be You're in the sentence he quoted.

It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.

Although incidentally he pwned himself too since it's spelling, not grammar.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
philosphical
Posts: 1,643
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3/2/2010 11:19:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 11:15:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:13:29 AM, philosphical wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:22:40 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/2/2010 9:26:02 AM, philosphical wrote:
Funny how Askbob blatantly ignores all of his comments. Your a great guy!

I know the same grammar rules as a 5 year old!!

What the heck are you talking about?

Your should be You're in the sentence he quoted.

It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.

Although incidentally he pwned himself too since it's spelling, not grammar.

I really don't mind that I have forgotten an apostraphe and an "E". Big deal.

I have made worse spelling errors than that before. lol
Your mouths writing checks that your @ss can't cash!
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/2/2010 11:27:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 11:19:52 AM, philosphical wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:15:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:13:29 AM, philosphical wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:22:40 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/2/2010 9:26:02 AM, philosphical wrote:
Funny how Askbob blatantly ignores all of his comments. Your a great guy!

I know the same grammar rules as a 5 year old!!

What the heck are you talking about?

Your should be You're in the sentence he quoted.

It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.

Although incidentally he pwned himself too since it's spelling, not grammar.

I really don't mind that I have forgotten an apostrophe and an "E". Big deal.

I have made worse spelling errors than that before. lol
Fix'd
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
alto2osu
Posts: 277
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3/2/2010 11:33:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
To be honest, his initial mistake is both spelling and grammar, since the spelling mistake actually changes the grammatical usage of the word from a contracted subject+noun to a possessive pronoun.

His mistake with "apostrophe," on the other hand, is a straight up spelling error.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/2/2010 12:24:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 11:33:43 AM, alto2osu wrote:
To be honest, his initial mistake is both spelling and grammar, since the spelling mistake actually changes the grammatical usage of the word from a contracted subject+noun to a possessive pronoun.

It led to a grammatical/semantical misunderstanding, but that does not render the mistake itself grammatical.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/2/2010 12:27:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 11:36:40 AM, collegkitchen4 wrote:
Speaking of English

Irony, my picture has it.

how's that??
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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3/2/2010 12:33:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 12:27:55 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:36:40 AM, collegkitchen4 wrote:
Speaking of English

Irony, my picture has it.

how's that??

By "my" I think he meant philosphical, which is spelled incorrectly. Philosophical is the correct spelling.
collegkitchen4
Posts: 42
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3/2/2010 1:05:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 12:33:52 PM, Nags wrote:
At 3/2/2010 12:27:55 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:36:40 AM, collegkitchen4 wrote:
Speaking of English

Irony, my picture has it.

how's that??

By "my" I think he meant philosphical, which is spelled incorrectly. Philosophical is the correct spelling.

No, my means the picture. As the picture itself is ironic, not the spelling of a screenname.
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/2/2010 3:40:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 11:15:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.

I see two independent clauses being separated only by a comma.
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mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/2/2010 3:45:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 3:40:23 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:15:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.

I see two independent clauses being separated only by a comma.

Who cares?

I hate grammar. IMO It's really not important to go out and actively learn.... One can be comprehensible with only an intuitive understanding of grammar, and that is it's only point.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/2/2010 3:56:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 3:45:19 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/2/2010 3:40:23 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:15:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.

I see two independent clauses being separated only by a comma.

Who cares?

I hate grammar. IMO It's really not important to go out and actively learn.... One can be comprehensible with only an intuitive understanding of grammar, and that is it's only point.

Not really. If you know what you're doing, but you intentionally break the rules, then you usually have a very specific reason for breaking the rules. Grammar rules are not perfect, because language is not a perfect construct. But if you don't know what you're doing, you are much likelier to write ambiguities that many will not understand or that many will have to take a second to fully understand.

Also, being aware of the way in which language is constructed will make you a better writer. Someone who is unaware of formal grammar rules might write, "The water in the bottle was drunk by him," while someone who is aware might instead write, "He drank the water."
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/2/2010 4:00:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 3:40:23 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:15:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.

I see two independent clauses being separated only by a comma.

An independent clause is defined in terms of being a "complete thought," something starting with "it's quite another to..." is at best in a gray area-- another as opposed to what? Can you really call that a complete thought? If I just wrote "It's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem." If I wrote nothing but that. Would you view my thought as complete? Would you even really know what it was?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/2/2010 4:08:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 3:56:46 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
Grammar rules are not perfect, because language is not a perfect construct.

Natural Human Language is perfect, we just can't quite define it :)

But, yeah... I agree that there is an underlying structure for each language, and if you don't use it, you're not going to be comprehensible... BUT I think that defining that structure too far is silly. To get a working understanding of it you really just need to experience it through listening, talking, and reading.

Proper usage comes naturally given the proper experience.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/2/2010 4:16:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 4:00:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/2/2010 3:40:23 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:15:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.

I see two independent clauses being separated only by a comma.

An independent clause is defined in terms of being a "complete thought," something starting with "it's quite another to..." is at best in a gray area-- another as opposed to what? Can you really call that a complete thought? If I just wrote "It's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem." If I wrote nothing but that. Would you view my thought as complete? Would you even really know what it was?

http://owl.english.purdue.edu...

No. According to Purdue, an independent clause is, "a group of words that contains a subject and verb and expresses a complete thought." In that sentence, you have two independent clauses joined by comma, without anything else to justify such a joining (e.g. a subordinator or coordinating conjunction). If you want to join the two clauses together without making one dependent, you'd have to use a semicolon.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/2/2010 10:19:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 4:16:11 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:00:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/2/2010 3:40:23 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:15:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.

I see two independent clauses being separated only by a comma.

An independent clause is defined in terms of being a "complete thought," something starting with "it's quite another to..." is at best in a gray area-- another as opposed to what? Can you really call that a complete thought? If I just wrote "It's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem." If I wrote nothing but that. Would you view my thought as complete? Would you even really know what it was?

http://owl.english.purdue.edu...

No. According to Purdue, an independent clause is, "a group of words that contains a subject and verb and expresses a complete thought."
Epic fail. If you don't meet one clause of a definition, you definitely don't meet both.

In that sentence, you have two independent clauses joined by comma
Only one of the clauses is a complete thought, i.e., an independent clause, according to your very own source. If there were a way to be an independent clause without being a complete thought they would have mentioned it.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/2/2010 10:19:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 4:16:11 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:00:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/2/2010 3:40:23 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:15:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.

I see two independent clauses being separated only by a comma.

An independent clause is defined in terms of being a "complete thought," something starting with "it's quite another to..." is at best in a gray area-- another as opposed to what? Can you really call that a complete thought? If I just wrote "It's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem." If I wrote nothing but that. Would you view my thought as complete? Would you even really know what it was?

http://owl.english.purdue.edu...

No. According to Purdue, an independent clause is, "a group of words that contains a subject and verb and expresses a complete thought." In that sentence, you have two independent clauses joined by comma, without anything else to justify such a joining (e.g. a subordinator or coordinating conjunction). If you want to join the two clauses together without making one dependent, you'd have to use a semicolon.

The always-responding Ragnar has no response? :O
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PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/2/2010 10:19:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 10:19:36 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:16:11 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:00:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/2/2010 3:40:23 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:15:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.

I see two independent clauses being separated only by a comma.

An independent clause is defined in terms of being a "complete thought," something starting with "it's quite another to..." is at best in a gray area-- another as opposed to what? Can you really call that a complete thought? If I just wrote "It's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem." If I wrote nothing but that. Would you view my thought as complete? Would you even really know what it was?

http://owl.english.purdue.edu...

No. According to Purdue, an independent clause is, "a group of words that contains a subject and verb and expresses a complete thought." In that sentence, you have two independent clauses joined by comma, without anything else to justify such a joining (e.g. a subordinator or coordinating conjunction). If you want to join the two clauses together without making one dependent, you'd have to use a semicolon.

The always-responding Ragnar has no response? :O

8 seconds, damn.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/2/2010 10:21:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
You got pwned.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/2/2010 10:29:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 10:19:28 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:16:11 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:00:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/2/2010 3:40:23 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:15:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.

I see two independent clauses being separated only by a comma.

An independent clause is defined in terms of being a "complete thought," something starting with "it's quite another to..." is at best in a gray area-- another as opposed to what? Can you really call that a complete thought? If I just wrote "It's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem." If I wrote nothing but that. Would you view my thought as complete? Would you even really know what it was?

http://owl.english.purdue.edu...

No. According to Purdue, an independent clause is, "a group of words that contains a subject and verb and expresses a complete thought."
Epic fail. If you don't meet one clause of a definition, you definitely don't meet both.

You're failing the "contains a subject and a verb" clause. Both parts of your sentence contain a subject and verb: "it's one thing" and "it's quite another." These are two totally separate sentences.

Yes, the sentence "it's quite another [thought] to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem" can stand alone. Of course it's a continuation of the previous sentence, but you have two separate ideas. If you really want to combine them the way you want to, you'd have to use a semicolon.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/2/2010 10:34:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 10:29:19 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 10:19:28 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:16:11 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 4:00:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/2/2010 3:40:23 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/2/2010 11:15:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.

I see two independent clauses being separated only by a comma.

An independent clause is defined in terms of being a "complete thought," something starting with "it's quite another to..." is at best in a gray area-- another as opposed to what? Can you really call that a complete thought? If I just wrote "It's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem." If I wrote nothing but that. Would you view my thought as complete? Would you even really know what it was?

http://owl.english.purdue.edu...

No. According to Purdue, an independent clause is, "a group of words that contains a subject and verb and expresses a complete thought."
Epic fail. If you don't meet one clause of a definition, you definitely don't meet both.

You're failing the "contains a subject and a verb" clause. Both parts of your sentence contain a subject and verb: "it's one thing" and "it's quite another." These are two totally separate sentences.
You're failing the AND, so I bolded that too.
For example, an ant has a thorax AND it has six legs.
If I have eight legs, it doesn't matter if I have a thorax, I'm not an ant.
If I do not have a complete thought, it doesn't matter if I have a subject and a verb, your source says I don't have an independent clause.
If they meant and/or they should have said and/or, but they said and.


Yes, the sentence "it's quite another [thought] to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem" can stand alone.
How?

"Newsweek is quite another magazine." Another as opposed to what? I haven't told you, it makes no goddamn sense.

Of course it's a continuation of the previous sentence, but you have two separate ideas.
As demonstrated with the newsweek, when you remove the fact that I did in fact give you the other clause that is biasing your judgment, you, hopefully, see that the idea is not coherent, complete, if it is separated.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/2/2010 11:05:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/2/2010 10:34:38 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's one thing to make an error, it's quite another to have someone criticize the language use of two sentences and not be able to see the problem lol.
Of course it's a continuation of the previous sentence, but you have two separate ideas.
As demonstrated with the newsweek, when you remove the fact that I did in fact give you the other clause that is biasing your judgment, you, hopefully, see that the idea is not coherent, complete, if it is separated.

http://owl.english.purdue.edu...

It rained heavily during the afternoon; we managed to have our picnic anyway.

Question: could they have used a comma there instead of a semicolon?
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