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Sargon vs Ajabi

ESocialBookworm
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8/19/2014 8:49:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
This should be interesting. :)
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
JohnMaynardKeynes
Posts: 1,512
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8/19/2014 11:35:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Watching it now!
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

Founder of the BSH-YYW Fan Club
Founder of the Barkalotti
Stand with Dogs and Economics
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Regarding Sargon's point that God is an empirical idea:

The evolutionary propensity for humans to believe in a supernatural being doesn't make it an empirical idea. God is necessarily an a priori concept, since no amount of empirical data could reflect the attributes assigned to God. In other words, we can't observe nature and come up with the idea of God, since O4 attributes cannot be expressed in terms of the physical, just like the number six, or the concept of height, cannot. If humans had an innate prosperity to invent Mathematics, a science defined by and understood strictly within the bounds of the human brain, would that make it an empirical discipline? Of course not.
dylancatlow
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8/19/2014 2:15:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The validity of two-valued logic (binary logic) cannot be disputed on empirical grounds, since assigning truth values to the conclusions made from empirical observations is not an empirical process. In order to disprove two-valued logic, you need to address it on an a priori level, since truth is a mathematical concept.

It takes very little effort to see that 2VL is an inescapable necessity for any proclamation or theory.

T? <----- [Non-2VL theory] ------ F? (not true)

In order for truth itself to have meaning, it must have a logical complement, otherwise you could implicate it in a formula such that it wasn't itself (non-X), and meaning is precisely what something means (not what it doesn't mean).
dylancatlow
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8/19/2014 2:27:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The "fuzzy grey area" when determining whether or not X is really a hay stack doesn't mean 2VL is itself under question. Rather, it simply comes down to the fact that the definition of "hay stack" is not exact by definition i.e. is exactly not exact (assuming the definition we are using with doesn't make precise demands on what qualifies as a hay stack).
JohnMaynardKeynes
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8/19/2014 2:37:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

You and Sargon should debate this live. I'd be more than happy to moderate.
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

Founder of the BSH-YYW Fan Club
Founder of the Barkalotti
Stand with Dogs and Economics
Ajabi
Posts: 1,504
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8/19/2014 2:48:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:24:35 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Ajabi reminds me of my cousin.

I hope you liked it, yes, Sargon admitted I won this. :P
We were unprepared, perhaps with better preparation he and I could have made this more amazing.
Ajabi
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8/19/2014 2:49:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 2:37:32 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

You and Sargon should debate this live. I'd be more than happy to moderate.

You are gonna moderator cheat on me? Fine.
Ajabi
Posts: 1,504
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8/19/2014 2:50:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I just realized if dylan debates this, then my personal ontological argument would be being debated by someone else. That makes me feel weird...
JohnMaynardKeynes
Posts: 1,512
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8/19/2014 2:57:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 2:49:19 PM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:37:32 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

You and Sargon should debate this live. I'd be more than happy to moderate.

You are gonna moderator cheat on me? Fine.

Hahaha, I already promised bsh and YYW that if they would actually agree to a google hangout interview, I would host it. So, yup, I'm cheating on you in the same way you're cheating on Dennis and Angel of death :D
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

Founder of the BSH-YYW Fan Club
Founder of the Barkalotti
Stand with Dogs and Economics
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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8/19/2014 3:01:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 2:27:54 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
The "fuzzy grey area" when determining whether or not X is really a hay stack doesn't mean 2VL is itself under question. Rather, it simply comes down to the fact that the definition of "hay stack" is not exact by definition i.e. is exactly not exact (assuming the definition we are using with doesn't make precise demands on what qualifies as a hay stack).

In other words, until we define "hay stack" exactly, binary logic never claims that X is or isn't a hay stack, since what is "hay stack"? It's just a matter of semantic ambiguity.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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8/19/2014 3:30:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
As Langan puts it:

Uncertainty or non-absoluteness of truth value always involves some kind of confusion or ambiguity regarding the distinction between the sentential predicates true and false. Where these predicates are applied to a more specific predicate and its negation - e.g., "it is true that the earth is round and false that the earth is not-round" - the confusion devolves to the contextual distinction between these lesser predicates, in this case round and not-round within the context of the earth. Because all of the ambiguity can be localized to a specific distinction in a particular context, it presents no general problem for reality at large; we can be uncertain about whether or not the earth is round without disrupting the logic of reality in general. However, where a statement is directly about reality in general, any disruption of or ambiguity regarding the T/F distinction disrupts the distinction between reality and not-reality. Were such a disruption to occur at the level of basic cognition or perception, reality would become impossible to perceive, recognize, or acknowledge as something that "exists".
Sargon
Posts: 524
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8/19/2014 3:33:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Dylan, I won't have time to get around to responding. I probably shouldn't have even done the G+ hangouts conversation considering the amount of work I have to do. But as a note to everyone else, this was a spontaneous and ad hoc debate on an argument that I've researched very little.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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8/19/2014 5:00:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Regarding Schrodinger's uncertainty principle:

This only leads to contradictions given a deterministic/indeterministic model of the universe. The standard explanation (interpretation) is that wave functions collapse randomly, and that prior to their collapse, they occupy many different states simultaneously. This relies on a number of assumptions which need not hold logically.

One of those assumptions is that the observation of a quantum wave function collapsing is logically secondary, and not a primary generator (first cause) of the event. In other words, it assumes that since a quantum wave function can collapse in a number of ways, all the necessary states that would produce those states also must exist. This assumes determinism or randomness, and rules out self-determinacy. The CTMU explains all of this logically i.e. factually, while the standard model doesn't.
AngelofDeath
Posts: 2,953
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8/19/2014 8:35:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 2:57:46 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:49:19 PM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:37:32 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

You and Sargon should debate this live. I'd be more than happy to moderate.

You are gonna moderator cheat on me? Fine.

Hahaha, I already promised bsh and YYW that if they would actually agree to a google hangout interview, I would host it. So, yup, I'm cheating on you in the same way you're cheating on Dennis and Angel of death :D

HOW DOES EVERYONE KNOW ABOUT THIS????
I may or may not be a cat
JohnMaynardKeynes
Posts: 1,512
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8/19/2014 8:41:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 8:35:54 PM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:57:46 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:49:19 PM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:37:32 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

You and Sargon should debate this live. I'd be more than happy to moderate.

You are gonna moderator cheat on me? Fine.

Hahaha, I already promised bsh and YYW that if they would actually agree to a google hangout interview, I would host it. So, yup, I'm cheating on you in the same way you're cheating on Dennis and Angel of death :D

HOW DOES EVERYONE KNOW ABOUT THIS????

He mentioned it, lol. He said something to the effect of "Angelofdeath is my wife."
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

Founder of the BSH-YYW Fan Club
Founder of the Barkalotti
Stand with Dogs and Economics
Sargon
Posts: 524
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8/20/2014 1:42:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Regarding Sargon's point that God is an empirical idea

That wasn't my point at all.
AngelofDeath
Posts: 2,953
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8/20/2014 7:58:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 8:41:08 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 8:35:54 PM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:57:46 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:49:19 PM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:37:32 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

You and Sargon should debate this live. I'd be more than happy to moderate.

You are gonna moderator cheat on me? Fine.

Hahaha, I already promised bsh and YYW that if they would actually agree to a google hangout interview, I would host it. So, yup, I'm cheating on you in the same way you're cheating on Dennis and Angel of death :D

HOW DOES EVERYONE KNOW ABOUT THIS????


He mentioned it, lol. He said something to the effect of "Angelofdeath is my wife."

Hmmm.... I wonder why he openly cheats on me.... Oh right! Cuz all of this is just a joke to him! *sheds fake tears* *shyly looks up for people to pity me*
I may or may not be a cat
Ajabi
Posts: 1,504
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8/20/2014 8:00:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/20/2014 7:58:14 AM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/19/2014 8:41:08 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 8:35:54 PM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:57:46 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:49:19 PM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:37:32 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

You and Sargon should debate this live. I'd be more than happy to moderate.

You are gonna moderator cheat on me? Fine.

Hahaha, I already promised bsh and YYW that if they would actually agree to a google hangout interview, I would host it. So, yup, I'm cheating on you in the same way you're cheating on Dennis and Angel of death :D

HOW DOES EVERYONE KNOW ABOUT THIS????


He mentioned it, lol. He said something to the effect of "Angelofdeath is my wife."

Hmmm.... I wonder why he openly cheats on me.... Oh right! Cuz all of this is just a joke to him! *sheds fake tears* *shyly looks up for people to pity me*

Wow no pity I guess. :P
Look at my debate.org profile. It says married.
AngelofDeath
Posts: 2,953
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8/20/2014 8:12:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/20/2014 8:00:24 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/20/2014 7:58:14 AM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/19/2014 8:41:08 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 8:35:54 PM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:57:46 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:49:19 PM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:37:32 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

You and Sargon should debate this live. I'd be more than happy to moderate.

You are gonna moderator cheat on me? Fine.

Hahaha, I already promised bsh and YYW that if they would actually agree to a google hangout interview, I would host it. So, yup, I'm cheating on you in the same way you're cheating on Dennis and Angel of death :D

HOW DOES EVERYONE KNOW ABOUT THIS????


He mentioned it, lol. He said something to the effect of "Angelofdeath is my wife."

Hmmm.... I wonder why he openly cheats on me.... Oh right! Cuz all of this is just a joke to him! *sheds fake tears* *shyly looks up for people to pity me*

Wow no pity I guess. :P
Look at my debate.org profile. It says married.

But you're cheating on me :c
I may or may not be a cat
AngelofDeath
Posts: 2,953
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8/20/2014 8:15:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/20/2014 8:00:24 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/20/2014 7:58:14 AM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/19/2014 8:41:08 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 8:35:54 PM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:57:46 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:49:19 PM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:37:32 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

You and Sargon should debate this live. I'd be more than happy to moderate.

You are gonna moderator cheat on me? Fine.

Hahaha, I already promised bsh and YYW that if they would actually agree to a google hangout interview, I would host it. So, yup, I'm cheating on you in the same way you're cheating on Dennis and Angel of death :D

HOW DOES EVERYONE KNOW ABOUT THIS????


He mentioned it, lol. He said something to the effect of "Angelofdeath is my wife."

Hmmm.... I wonder why he openly cheats on me.... Oh right! Cuz all of this is just a joke to him! *sheds fake tears* *shyly looks up for people to pity me*

Wow no pity I guess. :P
Look at my debate.org profile. It says married.

You should change it to open relationship
I may or may not be a cat
Ajabi
Posts: 1,504
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8/20/2014 8:17:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/20/2014 8:15:11 AM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/20/2014 8:00:24 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/20/2014 7:58:14 AM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/19/2014 8:41:08 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 8:35:54 PM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:57:46 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:49:19 PM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:37:32 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

You and Sargon should debate this live. I'd be more than happy to moderate.

You are gonna moderator cheat on me? Fine.

Hahaha, I already promised bsh and YYW that if they would actually agree to a google hangout interview, I would host it. So, yup, I'm cheating on you in the same way you're cheating on Dennis and Angel of death :D

HOW DOES EVERYONE KNOW ABOUT THIS????


He mentioned it, lol. He said something to the effect of "Angelofdeath is my wife."

Hmmm.... I wonder why he openly cheats on me.... Oh right! Cuz all of this is just a joke to him! *sheds fake tears* *shyly looks up for people to pity me*

Wow no pity I guess. :P
Look at my debate.org profile. It says married.

You should change it to open relationship

So we are not married?
AngelofDeath
Posts: 2,953
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8/20/2014 8:20:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/20/2014 8:17:14 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/20/2014 8:15:11 AM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/20/2014 8:00:24 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/20/2014 7:58:14 AM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/19/2014 8:41:08 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 8:35:54 PM, AngelofDeath wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:57:46 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:49:19 PM, Ajabi wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:37:32 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

You and Sargon should debate this live. I'd be more than happy to moderate.

You are gonna moderator cheat on me? Fine.

Hahaha, I already promised bsh and YYW that if they would actually agree to a google hangout interview, I would host it. So, yup, I'm cheating on you in the same way you're cheating on Dennis and Angel of death :D

HOW DOES EVERYONE KNOW ABOUT THIS????


He mentioned it, lol. He said something to the effect of "Angelofdeath is my wife."

Hmmm.... I wonder why he openly cheats on me.... Oh right! Cuz all of this is just a joke to him! *sheds fake tears* *shyly looks up for people to pity me*

Wow no pity I guess. :P
Look at my debate.org profile. It says married.

You should change it to open relationship

So we are not married?

Idk, go ask Denny XD
I may or may not be a cat
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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8/20/2014 9:59:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/20/2014 1:42:53 AM, Sargon wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:51:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Regarding Sargon's point that God is an empirical idea

That wasn't my point at all.

Then what was it?