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What about men?! Is feminism sexist?!

kbub
Posts: 1,377
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8/26/2014 12:38:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm putting this post on the debate.org thread, because this seems to be a concern that a whole lot of people on DDO has raised, and not just those who are interested in sociology or the society thread.

This vlogger summarizes some basic truths and myths about feminism, particularly focusing on whether feminism is a threat to male rights.
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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8/26/2014 1:37:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 12:38:59 AM, kbub wrote:
I'm putting this post on the debate.org thread, because this seems to be a concern that a whole lot of people on DDO has raised, and not just those who are interested in sociology or the society thread.

This vlogger summarizes some basic truths and myths about feminism, particularly focusing on whether feminism is a threat to male rights.



I firmly believe that all women should stay in the kitchen and be objectified. It would be better if we gave them a maid outfit to go with their job
Kc1999
Posts: 1,037
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8/26/2014 4:38:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 1:37:58 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 8/26/2014 12:38:59 AM, kbub wrote:
I'm putting this post on the debate.org thread, because this seems to be a concern that a whole lot of people on DDO has raised, and not just those who are interested in sociology or the society thread.

This vlogger summarizes some basic truths and myths about feminism, particularly focusing on whether feminism is a threat to male rights.



I firmly believe that all women should stay in the kitchen and be objectified. It would be better if we gave them a maid outfit to go with their job

I object. I say we make them wear burqas
#NoToMobocracy #BladeStroink
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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8/26/2014 7:52:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 12:38:59 AM, kbub wrote:
I'm putting this post on the debate.org thread, because this seems to be a concern that a whole lot of people on DDO has raised, and not just those who are interested in sociology or the society thread.

This vlogger summarizes some basic truths and myths about feminism, particularly focusing on whether feminism is a threat to male rights.



Stopped listening as soon as she said women were a 'minority' and 'oppressed'. Both are entirely untrue in the US at least and I have better uses of my time.

If feminists are so concerned about equal rights, they'd be fighting the draft (which makes men's rights entirely dependent on signing up for it, while women get theirs at birth), permanent alimony, the structural bias of the family court system against men, cultural depictions of men as buffoons, etc.. They'd be focusing on correcting the female-biased school system, lowering male suicide rates, lowering workplace fatalities (that primarily affect men), and increasing prostate cancer research (which lags far behind female-centric cancers).

They'd also spend more time fighting real oppression in the Middle East than fictional oppression here. But no, it's much more important to tweet #KillAllMen while demanding religious people pay for birth control and abortion.
kbub
Posts: 1,377
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8/26/2014 8:23:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 7:52:32 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 12:38:59 AM, kbub wrote:
I'm putting this post on the debate.org thread, because this seems to be a concern that a whole lot of people on DDO has raised, and not just those who are interested in sociology or the society thread.

This vlogger summarizes some basic truths and myths about feminism, particularly focusing on whether feminism is a threat to male rights.



Stopped listening as soon as she said women were a 'minority' and 'oppressed'. Both are entirely untrue in the US at least and I have better uses of my time.

If feminists are so concerned about equal rights, they'd be fighting the draft (which makes men's rights entirely dependent on signing up for it, while women get theirs at birth), permanent alimony, the structural bias of the family court system against men, cultural depictions of men as buffoons, etc.. They'd be focusing on correcting the female-biased school system, lowering male suicide rates, lowering workplace fatalities (that primarily affect men), and increasing prostate cancer research (which lags far behind female-centric cancers).

They'd also spend more time fighting real oppression in the Middle East than fictional oppression here. But no, it's much more important to tweet #KillAllMen while demanding religious people pay for birth control and abortion.

I think your biggest mistake was to stop listening. Most of your points were addressed in the video
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,367
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8/26/2014 8:27:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 4:38:29 AM, Kc1999 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 1:37:58 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 8/26/2014 12:38:59 AM, kbub wrote:
I'm putting this post on the debate.org thread, because this seems to be a concern that a whole lot of people on DDO has raised, and not just those who are interested in sociology or the society thread.

This vlogger summarizes some basic truths and myths about feminism, particularly focusing on whether feminism is a threat to male rights.



I firmly believe that all women should stay in the kitchen and be objectified. It would be better if we gave them a maid outfit to go with their job

I object. I say we make them wear burqas

Then their faces wouldn't be seen.
Solonkr~
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which is what everyone else should also care about.

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Me~
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MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

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P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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8/26/2014 8:29:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 8:23:43 AM, kbub wrote:
At 8/26/2014 7:52:32 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 12:38:59 AM, kbub wrote:
I'm putting this post on the debate.org thread, because this seems to be a concern that a whole lot of people on DDO has raised, and not just those who are interested in sociology or the society thread.

This vlogger summarizes some basic truths and myths about feminism, particularly focusing on whether feminism is a threat to male rights.



Stopped listening as soon as she said women were a 'minority' and 'oppressed'. Both are entirely untrue in the US at least and I have better uses of my time.

If feminists are so concerned about equal rights, they'd be fighting the draft (which makes men's rights entirely dependent on signing up for it, while women get theirs at birth), permanent alimony, the structural bias of the family court system against men, cultural depictions of men as buffoons, etc.. They'd be focusing on correcting the female-biased school system, lowering male suicide rates, lowering workplace fatalities (that primarily affect men), and increasing prostate cancer research (which lags far behind female-centric cancers).

They'd also spend more time fighting real oppression in the Middle East than fictional oppression here. But no, it's much more important to tweet #KillAllMen while demanding religious people pay for birth control and abortion.

I think your biggest mistake was to stop listening. Most of your points were addressed in the video

I continued watching. Stopped again when she used the bogus 'women earn 75% of what men make' stat. It's really hard to watch a video with glaring factual issues.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/26/2014 8:40:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 7:52:32 AM, TN05 wrote:


Stopped listening as soon as she said women were a 'minority' and 'oppressed'. Both are entirely untrue in the US at least and I have better uses of my time.

If feminists are so concerned about equal rights, they'd be fighting the draft (which makes men's rights entirely dependent on signing up for it, while women get theirs at birth), permanent alimony, the structural bias of the family court system against men, cultural depictions of men as buffoons, etc.. They'd be focusing on correcting the female-biased school system, lowering male suicide rates, lowering workplace fatalities (that primarily affect men), and increasing prostate cancer research (which lags far behind female-centric cancers).


What's wrong with permanent alimony?
My work here is, finally, done.
The_Immortal_Emris
Posts: 474
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8/26/2014 8:42:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 12:38:59 AM, kbub wrote:
I'm putting this post on the debate.org thread, because this seems to be a concern that a whole lot of people on DDO has raised, and not just those who are interested in sociology or the society thread.

This vlogger summarizes some basic truths and myths about feminism, particularly focusing on whether feminism is a threat to male rights.



Feminism is the view that men and women should be equal.

So no, there is no threat to men's rights.
kbub
Posts: 1,377
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8/26/2014 8:45:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 8:29:51 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 8:23:43 AM, kbub wrote:
At 8/26/2014 7:52:32 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 12:38:59 AM, kbub wrote:
I'm putting this post on the debate.org thread, because this seems to be a concern that a whole lot of people on DDO has raised, and not just those who are interested in sociology or the society thread.

This vlogger summarizes some basic truths and myths about feminism, particularly focusing on whether feminism is a threat to male rights.



Stopped listening as soon as she said women were a 'minority' and 'oppressed'. Both are entirely untrue in the US at least and I have better uses of my time.

If feminists are so concerned about equal rights, they'd be fighting the draft (which makes men's rights entirely dependent on signing up for it, while women get theirs at birth), permanent alimony, the structural bias of the family court system against men, cultural depictions of men as buffoons, etc.. They'd be focusing on correcting the female-biased school system, lowering male suicide rates, lowering workplace fatalities (that primarily affect men), and increasing prostate cancer research (which lags far behind female-centric cancers).

They'd also spend more time fighting real oppression in the Middle East than fictional oppression here. But no, it's much more important to tweet #KillAllMen while demanding religious people pay for birth control and abortion.

I think your biggest mistake was to stop listening. Most of your points were addressed in the video

I continued watching. Stopped again when she used the bogus 'women earn 75% of what men make' stat. It's really hard to watch a video with glaring factual issues.

Not glaring factual issues, but if you can't watch a video for 5-10 minutes that disagrees with your views, how do you expect to grow?
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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8/26/2014 9:02:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 8:40:32 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/26/2014 7:52:32 AM, TN05 wrote:


Stopped listening as soon as she said women were a 'minority' and 'oppressed'. Both are entirely untrue in the US at least and I have better uses of my time.

If feminists are so concerned about equal rights, they'd be fighting the draft (which makes men's rights entirely dependent on signing up for it, while women get theirs at birth), permanent alimony, the structural bias of the family court system against men, cultural depictions of men as buffoons, etc.. They'd be focusing on correcting the female-biased school system, lowering male suicide rates, lowering workplace fatalities (that primarily affect men), and increasing prostate cancer research (which lags far behind female-centric cancers).


What's wrong with permanent alimony?

The point of alimony is to allow a non-working, financially weaker partner in a financially strong relationship time to find a job and get situated. Permanent alimony is nonsensical not only because it violates this principle (temporary welfare) but is also blatantly sexist given the vast majority of people are capable of finding a job, as opposed to when it was invented when women (uneducated and without skills) might find it exceptionally hard to get one.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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8/26/2014 9:04:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 8:45:30 AM, kbub wrote:
At 8/26/2014 8:29:51 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 8:23:43 AM, kbub wrote:
At 8/26/2014 7:52:32 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 12:38:59 AM, kbub wrote:
I'm putting this post on the debate.org thread, because this seems to be a concern that a whole lot of people on DDO has raised, and not just those who are interested in sociology or the society thread.

This vlogger summarizes some basic truths and myths about feminism, particularly focusing on whether feminism is a threat to male rights.



Stopped listening as soon as she said women were a 'minority' and 'oppressed'. Both are entirely untrue in the US at least and I have better uses of my time.

If feminists are so concerned about equal rights, they'd be fighting the draft (which makes men's rights entirely dependent on signing up for it, while women get theirs at birth), permanent alimony, the structural bias of the family court system against men, cultural depictions of men as buffoons, etc.. They'd be focusing on correcting the female-biased school system, lowering male suicide rates, lowering workplace fatalities (that primarily affect men), and increasing prostate cancer research (which lags far behind female-centric cancers).

They'd also spend more time fighting real oppression in the Middle East than fictional oppression here. But no, it's much more important to tweet #KillAllMen while demanding religious people pay for birth control and abortion.

I think your biggest mistake was to stop listening. Most of your points were addressed in the video

I continued watching. Stopped again when she used the bogus 'women earn 75% of what men make' stat. It's really hard to watch a video with glaring factual issues.

Not glaring factual issues, but if you can't watch a video for 5-10 minutes that disagrees with your views, how do you expect to grow?

In case you missed it, I did watch all of it. I just kept stopping when it got to points where she was spouting untruths. If someone is basing their case off of untruths, why on earth would I want to spend my time watching it?
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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8/26/2014 9:07:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 9:06:14 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 8:18:29 AM, JacobGibbsDofE wrote:
For a rebuttal of this very video: https://www.youtube.com...

This is great.

I take that back, can't endorse a video where someone calls someone else a 'skinny Downs' syndrome sufferer'.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/26/2014 9:16:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 8:45:30 AM, kbub wrote:

Not glaring factual issues, but if you can't watch a video for 5-10 minutes that disagrees with your views, how do you expect to grow?

I'd say the structural bias of family courts is a glaring factual issue, and a very serious one.
I know first hand how bad it was in the early 90s.
And the fact that I currently hear law firms advertise specifically to help men in divorce makes me assume the issue is still very much real.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/26/2014 9:44:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 9:02:27 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 8:40:32 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/26/2014 7:52:32 AM, TN05 wrote:


Stopped listening as soon as she said women were a 'minority' and 'oppressed'. Both are entirely untrue in the US at least and I have better uses of my time.

If feminists are so concerned about equal rights, they'd be fighting the draft (which makes men's rights entirely dependent on signing up for it, while women get theirs at birth), permanent alimony, the structural bias of the family court system against men, cultural depictions of men as buffoons, etc.. They'd be focusing on correcting the female-biased school system, lowering male suicide rates, lowering workplace fatalities (that primarily affect men), and increasing prostate cancer research (which lags far behind female-centric cancers).


What's wrong with permanent alimony?

The point of alimony is to allow a non-working, financially weaker partner in a financially strong relationship time to find a job and get situated. Permanent alimony is nonsensical not only because it violates this principle (temporary welfare) but is also blatantly sexist given the vast majority of people are capable of finding a job, as opposed to when it was invented when women (uneducated and without skills) might find it exceptionally hard to get one.

Are you sure that is origin of it?
Think about this:
You and I get married after high school. I get a job and work my way up the ladder. You stay at home and manage the household. After 20 years, we get a divorce, after I am CEO.

Should you get nothing for your sacrifices made?
Am I not indebted to you through our "partnership" (i.e. marriage)?

That is alimony to me.
My mother gets a fraction of my father's pension. Is that wrong?
My work here is, finally, done.
kbub
Posts: 1,377
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8/26/2014 10:09:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 8:18:29 AM, JacobGibbsDofE wrote:
For a rebuttal of this very video: https://www.youtube.com...

That was really awful. It wasn't even a rebuttal--it was someone simply mocking her as she was talking.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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8/26/2014 10:18:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 9:44:57 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/26/2014 9:02:27 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 8:40:32 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/26/2014 7:52:32 AM, TN05 wrote:


Stopped listening as soon as she said women were a 'minority' and 'oppressed'. Both are entirely untrue in the US at least and I have better uses of my time.

If feminists are so concerned about equal rights, they'd be fighting the draft (which makes men's rights entirely dependent on signing up for it, while women get theirs at birth), permanent alimony, the structural bias of the family court system against men, cultural depictions of men as buffoons, etc.. They'd be focusing on correcting the female-biased school system, lowering male suicide rates, lowering workplace fatalities (that primarily affect men), and increasing prostate cancer research (which lags far behind female-centric cancers).


What's wrong with permanent alimony?

The point of alimony is to allow a non-working, financially weaker partner in a financially strong relationship time to find a job and get situated. Permanent alimony is nonsensical not only because it violates this principle (temporary welfare) but is also blatantly sexist given the vast majority of people are capable of finding a job, as opposed to when it was invented when women (uneducated and without skills) might find it exceptionally hard to get one.

Are you sure that is origin of it?
Think about this:
You and I get married after high school. I get a job and work my way up the ladder. You stay at home and manage the household. After 20 years, we get a divorce, after I am CEO.

Should you get nothing for your sacrifices made?
Am I not indebted to you through our "partnership" (i.e. marriage)?

In that case, that is a choice I and I alone made. Both sides make sacrifices - by the logic you've provided, should not the breadwinner gain custody of the kids, since he sacrificed the time he could have spent with them to provide for everyone?

Regardless, that's not your job to pay for someone the rest of their life. There is certainly an argument for temporary alimony (to get a job or pay for a reasonable education), but permanent alimony is a bit much.

That is alimony to me.
My mother gets a fraction of my father's pension. Is that wrong?

I can't make a judgement off of that alone. I think you have to look at other factors like the situation, what amount of money or percentage of his income he is required to pay monthly, whether or not Is he required to do so? If she remarries, would he still have to pay? Alimony is a concept that hasn't really been updated even as the situation of men and women has dramatically changed.
blackkid
Posts: 29
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8/26/2014 10:40:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 8:18:29 AM, JacobGibbsDofE wrote:
For a rebuttal of this very video: https://www.youtube.com...

Why is there no upvote system? This needs +20
blackkid
Posts: 29
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8/26/2014 10:59:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago


My problem with this is that it's counterintuitive. When we look for explanations for various phenomena we see trends, for instance females are known for, even though they graduate more often, taking lower paying degrees; another issue with the money differential is that it used to be (and appropriately was) an issue only beyond a certain bracket or certain position, the notion was that a female CEO was making X% what a male CEO would make and it was based entirely on the fact that she was female, and this gap is closing, but when it was generalized it actually hurt the cause (the rate, unbeknowest to most, went UP, not DOWN, female CEO arguments estimated something like 65% and by generalizing it across all females it went up to 77% at the time) and ended up skewing the purpose specifically relating to the success of those involved. Then you have the RAINN statistics which are false where 1/3 or 1/4 women will be raped in college, which was actually worded as "sexually assaulted" which incorporates "sexual harassment" but because propaganda does it job very, very well the country genuinely believes that A) college is a really dangerous place and time and B) everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, who is female has been raped.

Looking at your local statistics alone these numbers don't match up. Looking at the history of sexual violence there's a decrease. Looking at crime in general there is a decrease. So then where do her facts come from? Why has she not done her homework is my question. If I presume nothing else other than she is correct about the plight of women, which is fine, less than a minute was spent talking about males in general and it was only presented in reference to insulting genderesque language which is frivolous!

The only gain from Feminism, according to this video, is that if someone says "Don't be a p**sy" I can point and shout "SEXIST PIG!" at them. But the irony is that this language is used within context freely, for instance "don't be a b**ch!", well, that's sexist, it is a female dog, it is a reference to being subservient as such, but that language can also be seen as a term of endearment? Did Feminism pull a "Black People"?

"You say n***a and it's racist, I say it and it's fine!", well here's a strange thought, one of the largest publications is "B**ch(!)" magazine. Interesting. So the term itself is allowable when it's you or used in a safe context? Well, doesn't that defeat the value of what she's saying? Don't get me wrong, that is external, I admit that this isn't admissible against the video but her claim to universal prosperity seems weak.

Feminism is for the progress of females. That's okay. Why is it not okay? "What about men?!" is not a feminist question and the correct answer is "Female rights and the ascension towards equality does not detract from male rights." It's that simple. Yet people complicate it beyond all reason trying to float in concepts that just aren't native in order to make it more appealing.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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8/26/2014 11:25:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 9:02:27 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 8:40:32 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/26/2014 7:52:32 AM, TN05 wrote:


Stopped listening as soon as she said women were a 'minority' and 'oppressed'. Both are entirely untrue in the US at least and I have better uses of my time.

If feminists are so concerned about equal rights, they'd be fighting the draft (which makes men's rights entirely dependent on signing up for it, while women get theirs at birth), permanent alimony, the structural bias of the family court system against men, cultural depictions of men as buffoons, etc.. They'd be focusing on correcting the female-biased school system, lowering male suicide rates, lowering workplace fatalities (that primarily affect men), and increasing prostate cancer research (which lags far behind female-centric cancers).


What's wrong with permanent alimony?

The point of alimony is to allow a non-working, financially weaker partner in a financially strong relationship time to find a job and get situated. Permanent alimony is nonsensical not only because it violates this principle (temporary welfare) but is also blatantly sexist given the vast majority of people are capable of finding a job, as opposed to when it was invented when women (uneducated and without skills) might find it exceptionally hard to get one.

A spouse with a college education and some work experience is unlikely to qualify for alimony. Alimony still goes mostly to stay at home parents who forewent educational and career opportunities to raise children and have a difficult time re-entering the workforce at an advanced age (when they are no longer a good investment in human capital for companies to make).

And alimony is gender neutral, so I don't see how it's anti-feministic not to argue for the abolition of alimony.

It's also not "welfare" because it doesn't come from the state. Don't want to have to pay alimony? Don't marry anyone... Or marry only someone who can financially support him or herself. It's not like tax dollars where the person paying it had little-to-no role in causing the payments to come about.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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8/26/2014 11:33:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 12:38:59 AM, kbub wrote:
I'm putting this post on the debate.org thread, because this seems to be a concern that a whole lot of people on DDO has raised, and not just those who are interested in sociology or the society thread.

This vlogger summarizes some basic truths and myths about feminism, particularly focusing on whether feminism is a threat to male rights.



I'm glad you like this video blogger, but *surprise,* she says nothing of any real substance. With a four minute video, she's only going to impress people who already agree with her. People who hate feminism will wank it to her because she's hot, but she's not going to change their minds.

But to play devil's advocate to get something of a discussion going here, kbub, I will argue that feminism is wrong to go from aggregate to individual statistics. "Feminists" often protest when a man gets a certain position over a woman (e.g. "OMG, X company just hired Y as CEO over Z. SEXIST!!") They don't really care what the relative qualifications were or whether the decision was free from sexism. To fix the aggregate statistics, they are advocating reverse discrimination. The company should make a decision in a gender-neutral fashion, but if it leads to a decision that is bad for correcting the aggregate statistics, the company should reject the man simply because he is a man.

Really, it's an issue of equality of opportunity vs. equality of outcome. And equal opportunities do not necessary lead to equal outcomes. So unequal outcomes do not necessarily prove unequal opportunities.

I don't deny sexism exists in our society, mostly because I believe anecdotal reports from women about very sexist behavior in the workplace. But I think a lot of the reliance on aggregate statistics is very misleading. The lack of women CEO's is partially a symptom of the lack of women who apply to business school. When these statistics are bandied about -- not enough female CEO's -- I feel a bit, as a man, like I'm being blamed because society isn't acting fast enough. Railing against the "patriarchy" can't help but feel a little personal.

I think the problem with feminism is talking about things in vague generalities. Find me a good (specific) fight and I'm there. Complain about aggregate statistics and I'm gonna sh*t all over you.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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8/26/2014 11:41:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
lol

I love the dry sense of humor in the video.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
JacobGibbsDofE
Posts: 4
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8/26/2014 12:05:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 10:09:11 AM, kbub wrote:
At 8/26/2014 8:18:29 AM, JacobGibbsDofE wrote:
For a rebuttal of this very video: https://www.youtube.com...

That was really awful. It wasn't even a rebuttal--it was someone simply mocking her as she was talking.

Points made in the rebuttal
1. Feminism is sexist because it only wants to deal with the supposed discrimination that women face
2. Women are not a minority group
3. There is no proof that women are the more oppressed group
4. The fact that the feminist in the video lied about the definition of the word "oppression"
5. There are NO institutions oppressing women! Every university has a gender studies course and there are feminists on both sides of the political spectrum.
6. The imbalance of power between men and women is not oppression as they both have the same opportunities.
7. Sexual objectification is not exclusive to women.
8. Sexual objectification is a part of being human - everyone does it.
9. There is no proof given that the idea that men should be in charge is perpetuated.
10. There is no institution for sexual violence against women.
11. There is no institution for the "dehumanization and objectification" of women.
12. There is no institution for rapists stopping women from being able to walk alone at night.
13. The gender pay gap is not based on discrimination, it's women going into jobs like childcare that pay less than jobs like being a CEO or working at a construction site for long hours.
14. Again, there's nothing stopping a competent woman from defeating a less competent man in an election.
15. The feminist in the video lied about the definition of a patriarchy.
16. Even by that definition, we don't live in a patriarchy.
17. It is crazy to believe that men would set up a system that also negatively affects them.
18. Gender roles are clearly not a construct of society.
19. Being a "blubbering girl" is not desirable for men when they are things to be done.
20. Feminism completely ignores the issues that men face.
21. Feminism denies the science of sexual dimorphism.
22. If we were exactly the same, it is insane to believe that gender roles would still exist.
23. There is no established right that men have that women don't.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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8/26/2014 12:28:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 11:25:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 8/26/2014 9:02:27 AM, TN05 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 8:40:32 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/26/2014 7:52:32 AM, TN05 wrote:


Stopped listening as soon as she said women were a 'minority' and 'oppressed'. Both are entirely untrue in the US at least and I have better uses of my time.

If feminists are so concerned about equal rights, they'd be fighting the draft (which makes men's rights entirely dependent on signing up for it, while women get theirs at birth), permanent alimony, the structural bias of the family court system against men, cultural depictions of men as buffoons, etc.. They'd be focusing on correcting the female-biased school system, lowering male suicide rates, lowering workplace fatalities (that primarily affect men), and increasing prostate cancer research (which lags far behind female-centric cancers).


What's wrong with permanent alimony?

The point of alimony is to allow a non-working, financially weaker partner in a financially strong relationship time to find a job and get situated. Permanent alimony is nonsensical not only because it violates this principle (temporary welfare) but is also blatantly sexist given the vast majority of people are capable of finding a job, as opposed to when it was invented when women (uneducated and without skills) might find it exceptionally hard to get one.

A spouse with a college education and some work experience is unlikely to qualify for alimony. Alimony still goes mostly to stay at home parents who forewent educational and career opportunities to raise children and have a difficult time re-entering the workforce at an advanced age (when they are no longer a good investment in human capital for companies to make).

Then there is no reason for 30-something divorcees to be paying, as they often have to do.

And alimony is gender neutral, so I don't see how it's anti-feministic not to argue for the abolition of alimony.

97% of alimony recipients are women. It may be gender neutral in theory, but not in practice.

It's also not "welfare" because it doesn't come from the state. Don't want to have to pay alimony? Don't marry anyone... Or marry only someone who can financially support him or herself. It's not like tax dollars where the person paying it had little-to-no role in causing the payments to come about.

I used 'welfare' as a general term. It's still government-mandated wealth redistribution.
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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8/26/2014 2:48:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 1:37:58 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 8/26/2014 12:38:59 AM, kbub wrote:
I'm putting this post on the debate.org thread, because this seems to be a concern that a whole lot of people on DDO has raised, and not just those who are interested in sociology or the society thread.

This vlogger summarizes some basic truths and myths about feminism, particularly focusing on whether feminism is a threat to male rights.



I firmly believe that all women should stay in the kitchen and be objectified. It would be better if we gave them a maid outfit to go with their job

Actually, they're probably less likely to be objectified when they "stay in the kitchen".
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sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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8/26/2014 3:54:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Only people who tow such lines care about such trivial things.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%