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Debate.org Has Become Too Childish

xXCryptoXx
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8/27/2014 7:01:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Debate.org is an intellectual shell of its former self. With the rise of the new generation of members which are very young in age (12-16), it seems there has also been a rise in a lack of intellectual debating. There has been far too much focus on the social aspect of DDO i.e) mafia, playful forums, ect.

At first I enjoyed this increase in socialization on DDO but it has gone too far and has caused DDO to stray from an intellectual community. Even with an increase in Debate.org members I seldom see intellectual debates, especially from our active members. But even worse than the lack of intellectual debates is the increase in noob sniping and fun debates such as rap battles. Noob sniping has certainly become more common due to noobs flooding in from the opinions and polls section; I have witnessed the active members on this site abuse this increase in noob debaters and I find it overall pathetic. I will not give out usernames but you know who you are. Active members here should be a good example to the noobs coming in and participate in intelligent debates, not avoid intelligent debate and accept any debate you think you can win without trying. Rap battles have also been increasingly annoying, and here I will call out Mikal. One or two rap battles is okay, but Mikal 15 out 30 of your last debates have been rap battles and I find that to be ridiculous.

Further more, the forums too have been lacking in any intellectual discussion in recent times. Forums that could have great intellectual discussion are barren. The Economics forum hardly has any forums with more than one post, the philosophy forum (which really should be one of DDO's most prominent forums) is very slow and inhabited by seemingly the same 10 posters, and the same thing with the philosophy forum applies to both the politics forum and the society forum. The three intellectual forums that should be the most popular (in my humble opinion) are devoid of many posters and the rest of the forums hardly get any attention at all (save the religion forum, but that doesn't count).

What we need is a larger focus on DDO's purpose, which is to serve as an intellectual community, and therefore I urge all active members to partake in this purpose. Please check out the other forums and chip in your opinion, or if you can participate in a debate over what you are curious about. Active DDO members, if they care about DDO as an intellectual community, should feel obligated to be an example of what a member of DDO is like. They should provide an example for new members on what DDO expects and what DDO provides.
Nolite Timere
ESocialBookworm
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8/27/2014 7:02:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
O.o
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/27/2014 7:05:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I tend to agree with this, but mafia is at least somewhat intellectual, or is supposed to be.
My work here is, finally, done.
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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8/27/2014 7:21:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yep. Just look at the maturity of your first reply.

Mafia is pretty much the only reason I'm here now.
0x5f3759df
UchihaMadara
Posts: 1,049
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8/27/2014 7:23:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
im a newer member, so idk about how the site used to be, but i can certainly say that for a site called "debate.org", there is a LOT more social networking type stuff going on around here than there is debating, at least among the active members. browsing the debate records of older members, i can see that almost all of their most high-quality debates happened at least a year ago, with debates between the site's best being much more frequent back then. i suppose i have no right to speak, though, seeing that none of my 5 debates thus far have been anything great...
Mikal
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8/27/2014 7:26:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:24:23 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
At 8/27/2014 7:21:57 PM, Mikal wrote:
I created rap battles on here.

All worship me

what is your stance on psychological egoism?

From my own perspective I think almost every act we commit is in our own self interest, but this is an interesting read if you like it.

http://philosophy.lander.edu...
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,367
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8/27/2014 7:30:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:21:07 PM, Bullish wrote:
Yep. Just look at the maturity of your first reply.
*bows*
Mafia is pretty much the only reason I'm here now.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
UchihaMadara
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8/27/2014 7:30:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:26:13 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 8/27/2014 7:24:23 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
At 8/27/2014 7:21:57 PM, Mikal wrote:
I created rap battles on here.

All worship me

what is your stance on psychological egoism?

From my own perspective I think almost every act we commit is in our own self interest, but this is an interesting read if you like it.


http://philosophy.lander.edu...

are you willing to debate that?
im con.
that article was a good read btw. gave me some rebuttal ideas.
Raisor
Posts: 4,461
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8/27/2014 7:31:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
People were saying mafia was distracting from the "better" aspects of DDO since before you joined. I actually agree that there is a trade off between mafia and debating- there are a limited number of hours in the day and if I get on a hangout I'm probably not judging or writing a debate argument. Point is I don't think this is new or anything to be worried about.

I think this site is better in many ways. I think judging quality has improved, we are seeing communal focus on certain debates that yields discussion about judge philosophy and argument style, there have been a lot of great new members. Things are different now than they once were, but I think overall the site has trended in a generally positive direction.

Personally I don't notice a lot outside the DDO forum. I think the low traffic in the other forums has always been the case. I periodically poke into some of the other forums but it's pretty rare anything catches my eye. That's pretty much how it's always been from my perspective.

As for things being childish, I don't know what you can do about the inherently young demographic on the Internet. Roy used to complain about this all the time until he just left the forums.
Mikal
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8/27/2014 7:31:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:30:32 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
At 8/27/2014 7:26:13 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 8/27/2014 7:24:23 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
At 8/27/2014 7:21:57 PM, Mikal wrote:
I created rap battles on here.

All worship me

what is your stance on psychological egoism?

From my own perspective I think almost every act we commit is in our own self interest, but this is an interesting read if you like it.


http://philosophy.lander.edu...

are you willing to debate that?
im con.
that article was a good read btw. gave me some rebuttal ideas.

That is why I linked it, i'm torn in between it. The only reason I don't accept it fully is because of that analogy specifically. Its hard to weigh it or debate it, if you throw an on balance in it then sure. But not purely and all the time, but on balance we always act in our own self interest.
UchihaMadara
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8/27/2014 7:34:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:31:56 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 8/27/2014 7:30:32 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
At 8/27/2014 7:26:13 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 8/27/2014 7:24:23 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
At 8/27/2014 7:21:57 PM, Mikal wrote:
I created rap battles on here.

All worship me

what is your stance on psychological egoism?

From my own perspective I think almost every act we commit is in our own self interest, but this is an interesting read if you like it.


http://philosophy.lander.edu...

are you willing to debate that?
im con.
that article was a good read btw. gave me some rebuttal ideas.

That is why I linked it, i'm torn in between it. The only reason I don't accept it fully is because of that analogy specifically. Its hard to weigh it or debate it, if you throw an on balance in it then sure. But not purely and all the time, but on balance we always act in our own self interest.

ah. nvm then, i would agree that the majority of human actions are motivated by self interest, just not all of them.
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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8/27/2014 7:36:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:01:57 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Debate.org is an intellectual shell of its former self. With the rise of the new generation of members which are very young in age (12-16), it seems there has also been a rise in a lack of intellectual debating. There has been far too much focus on the social aspect of DDO i.e) mafia, playful forums, ect.

At first I enjoyed this increase in socialization on DDO but it has gone too far and has caused DDO to stray from an intellectual community. Even with an increase in Debate.org members I seldom see intellectual debates, especially from our active members. But even worse than the lack of intellectual debates is the increase in noob sniping and fun debates such as rap battles. Noob sniping has certainly become more common due to noobs flooding in from the opinions and polls section; I have witnessed the active members on this site abuse this increase in noob debaters and I find it overall pathetic. I will not give out usernames but you know who you are. Active members here should be a good example to the noobs coming in and participate in intelligent debates, not avoid intelligent debate and accept any debate you think you can win without trying. Rap battles have also been increasingly annoying, and here I will call out Mikal. One or two rap battles is okay, but Mikal 15 out 30 of your last debates have been rap battles and I find that to be ridiculous.

Further more, the forums too have been lacking in any intellectual discussion in recent times. Forums that could have great intellectual discussion are barren. The Economics forum hardly has any forums with more than one post, the philosophy forum (which really should be one of DDO's most prominent forums) is very slow and inhabited by seemingly the same 10 posters, and the same thing with the philosophy forum applies to both the politics forum and the society forum. The three intellectual forums that should be the most popular (in my humble opinion) are devoid of many posters and the rest of the forums hardly get any attention at all (save the religion forum, but that doesn't count).

What we need is a larger focus on DDO's purpose, which is to serve as an intellectual community, and therefore I urge all active members to partake in this purpose. Please check out the other forums and chip in your opinion, or if you can participate in a debate over what you are curious about. Active DDO members, if they care about DDO as an intellectual community, should feel obligated to be an example of what a member of DDO is like. They should provide an example for new members on what DDO expects and what DDO provides.

I completely agree with you, although i don't agree with the rap battles (unless that's all you do). Part of the reason for not doing intellectual debates anymore is because of vote bombing and the like. I can't take this site seriously anymore. I dislike the socialization aspect (Mafia, games, etc.) being over emphasized than actual debating. I also don't do intellectual debates anymore with people who clearly have no understanding of the topics at hand. Now i'm at the point where i will technically only debate friends, people who i know will use their intellect to debate.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/27/2014 7:38:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You're correct about debates. About the forums - There have been periods of ridiculous behavior, but now it seems worse. In particular, the first months of 2012 were full of children at play here. The Personal forum was the centre. Due to the flooding of newer and younger members, it has become easier for the active members to establish online friendships, which is why the forums are so often dull and repetitive social talks.

Noob sniping is easier because there are many debaters who will vote for one another for a certain. That's a consequence of the site turning into social media.
Truth_seeker
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8/27/2014 7:42:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And i agree with you that with the games people play online, it really is childish. I don't even think that these kinds of things should exist on a debating site. It's not contributing to thought-provoking discussions and helping people improve as debators and/or do research to make their arguments/cases/etc. stronger.
Mikal
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8/27/2014 7:49:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:42:26 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
And i agree with you that with the games people play online, it really is childish. I don't even think that these kinds of things should exist on a debating site. It's not contributing to thought-provoking discussions and helping people improve as debators and/or do research to make their arguments/cases/etc. stronger.

That's why there is a debate forum and a game forum. The game forum is debating in an of itself, its just debating about the concept of how to play mafia and what actions to take. The entire game is a debate, which is why you probably suck at it
Truth_seeker
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8/27/2014 7:51:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:38:37 PM, Mirza wrote:
You're correct about debates. About the forums - There have been periods of ridiculous behavior, but now it seems worse. In particular, the first months of 2012 were full of children at play here. The Personal forum was the centre. Due to the flooding of newer and younger members, it has become easier for the active members to establish online friendships, which is why the forums are so often dull and repetitive social talks.

Noob sniping is easier because there are many debaters who will vote for one another for a certain. That's a consequence of the site turning into social media.

You said it. It kind of bothers me to see troll debates and what not which comes to show that the site has become social media. We should inspire younger people to logically debate.
thett3
Posts: 14,349
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8/27/2014 7:52:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:23:31 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
im a newer member, so idk about how the site used to be, but i can certainly say that for a site called "debate.org", there is a LOT more social networking type stuff going on around here than there is debating, at least among the active members. browsing the debate records of older members, i can see that almost all of their most high-quality debates happened at least a year ago, with debates between the site's best being much more frequent back then. i suppose i have no right to speak, though, seeing that none of my 5 debates thus far have been anything great...

No, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. The active debating scene has declined a great deal and with some notable exceptions most of the new members tend to be less interested in debating once the old members get tired of it as they inevitably do. Especially these days you have everyone with these godawful high win ratios because people don't debate anymore. It's easy to rack up a huge win ratio and ELO when you don't debate anyone who can beat you. If it wasn't for the friends I've made here I would definitely be gone. But here I am bitchingg about this with no intention of having a serious debate any time soon, so it guess I too don't have room to talk.
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Mikal
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8/27/2014 7:55:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:52:26 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 8/27/2014 7:23:31 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
im a newer member, so idk about how the site used to be, but i can certainly say that for a site called "debate.org", there is a LOT more social networking type stuff going on around here than there is debating, at least among the active members. browsing the debate records of older members, i can see that almost all of their most high-quality debates happened at least a year ago, with debates between the site's best being much more frequent back then. i suppose i have no right to speak, though, seeing that none of my 5 debates thus far have been anything great...

No, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. The active debating scene has declined a great deal and with some notable exceptions most of the new members tend to be less interested in debating once the old members get tired of it as they inevitably do. Especially these days you have everyone with these godawful high win ratios because people don't debate anymore. It's easy to rack up a huge win ratio and ELO when you don't debate anyone who can beat you. If it wasn't for the friends I've made here I would definitely be gone. But here I am bitchingg about this with no intention of having a serious debate any time soon, so it guess I too don't have room to talk.

steammm
debatability
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8/27/2014 7:55:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:01:57 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:

I half agree with you. I would agree that there are not enough intellectual debates, and I would also agree that the most interesting intellectual forums are way too inactive. However, I don't necessarily think that this is directly caused with the rise of the social aspect of DDO. I believe that part of the reason we seem to have seen less intellectual discussion and debate is because of the summer. As the school year begins for many people, I would predict more thought provoking debates, and a decent amount of new members from the world of formal debate. Of course, I haven't been on DDO long enough to know if this actually happens from year to year.
The only real negative impact that I can think of pertaining to the social aspect of DDO is increased drama, but again, I'm sure there has always been a rather large amount of drama on DDO. Though there may be increased drama, I don't feel like the social side directly contributes to the lack of intellectual debates. I would venture to guess that the amount of intellectual content goes up and down... and right now it just seems to be at a lower level that usual.
Mirza
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8/27/2014 7:56:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:51:26 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
You said it. It kind of bothers me to see troll debates and what not which comes to show that the site has become social media. We should inspire younger people to logically debate.
I will have to disagree with your attack on the Games forum, however. That's not an issue, because people who are interested in debating will debate regardless.
Truth_seeker
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8/27/2014 8:03:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:56:36 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/27/2014 7:51:26 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
You said it. It kind of bothers me to see troll debates and what not which comes to show that the site has become social media. We should inspire younger people to logically debate.
I will have to disagree with your attack on the Games forum, however. That's not an issue, because people who are interested in debating will debate regardless.

I guess what i'm saying is that if all you came here for is to be on the Games forum, DDO may not be the right site for you. Not trying to say "get out", but the focus should also and mainly be on debating. I only know of very few members whom i can have an intellectual discussion with. The rest are either inactive or they are as we'd like to call "noobs."
Mirza
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8/27/2014 8:06:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 8:03:00 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I guess what i'm saying is that if all you came here for is to be on the Games forum, DDO may not be the right site for you. Not trying to say "get out", but the focus should also and mainly be on debating. I only know of very few members whom i can have an intellectual discussion with. The rest are either inactive or they are as we'd like to call "noobs."
There are plenty of opportunities to debate experienced members if you cannot enter a discussion on the forums. Ask for a debate and many will accept the offer. Regarding Games - most participans, from what I've seen, have already done a plethora of debating. That they occasionally return just for the Games doesn't matter, as that doesn't seem to affect the general activity of the site in any way.
Truth_seeker
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8/27/2014 8:12:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 8:06:40 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/27/2014 8:03:00 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I guess what i'm saying is that if all you came here for is to be on the Games forum, DDO may not be the right site for you. Not trying to say "get out", but the focus should also and mainly be on debating. I only know of very few members whom i can have an intellectual discussion with. The rest are either inactive or they are as we'd like to call "noobs."
There are plenty of opportunities to debate experienced members if you cannot enter a discussion on the forums. Ask for a debate and many will accept the offer. Regarding Games - most participans, from what I've seen, have already done a plethora of debating. That they occasionally return just for the Games doesn't matter, as that doesn't seem to affect the general activity of the site in any way.

True, but aside from very good debators no longer being active on the site, it feels like it's being run by amateurs who can boost ranks based on very biased voting. For me, i have to look at the person's debates to determine whether or not they are experienced and that's a bad thing because it shows the site needs alot of improvements.
Mirza
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8/27/2014 8:17:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 8:12:07 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
True, but aside from very good debators no longer being active on the site, it feels like it's being run by amateurs who can boost ranks based on very biased voting. For me, i have to look at the person's debates to determine whether or not they are experienced and that's a bad thing because it shows the site needs alot of improvements.
The biased voting has been there before, but with more people becoming friends, the problem is worse. I can name a couple of people who've won a flood of debates due to biased voting many years ago, and the moderator had to once step in due to a serious case. The solution now would be to ask for judges to help determine the outcome of your debates.
Truth_seeker
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8/27/2014 8:20:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 8:17:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/27/2014 8:12:07 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
True, but aside from very good debators no longer being active on the site, it feels like it's being run by amateurs who can boost ranks based on very biased voting. For me, i have to look at the person's debates to determine whether or not they are experienced and that's a bad thing because it shows the site needs alot of improvements.
The biased voting has been there before, but with more people becoming friends, the problem is worse. I can name a couple of people who've won a flood of debates due to biased voting many years ago, and the moderator had to once step in due to a serious case. The solution now would be to ask for judges to help determine the outcome of your debates.

True, that's the best solution.
GodChoosesLife
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8/27/2014 8:21:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:01:57 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Debate.org is an intellectual shell of its former self. With the rise of the new generation of members which are very young in age (12-16), it seems there has also been a rise in a lack of intellectual debating. There has been far too much focus on the social aspect of DDO i.e) mafia, playful forums, ect.

At first I enjoyed this increase in socialization on DDO but it has gone too far and has caused DDO to stray from an intellectual community. Even with an increase in Debate.org members I seldom see intellectual debates, especially from our active members. But even worse than the lack of intellectual debates is the increase in noob sniping and fun debates such as rap battles. Noob sniping has certainly become more common due to noobs flooding in from the opinions and polls section; I have witnessed the active members on this site abuse this increase in noob debaters and I find it overall pathetic. I will not give out usernames but you know who you are. Active members here should be a good example to the noobs coming in and participate in intelligent debates, not avoid intelligent debate and accept any debate you think you can win without trying. Rap battles have also been increasingly annoying, and here I will call out Mikal. One or two rap battles is okay, but Mikal 15 out 30 of your last debates have been rap battles and I find that to be ridiculous.

Further more, the forums too have been lacking in any intellectual discussion in recent times. Forums that could have great intellectual discussion are barren. The Economics forum hardly has any forums with more than one post, the philosophy forum (which really should be one of DDO's most prominent forums) is very slow and inhabited by seemingly the same 10 posters, and the same thing with the philosophy forum applies to both the politics forum and the society forum. The three intellectual forums that should be the most popular (in my humble opinion) are devoid of many posters and the rest of the forums hardly get any attention at all (save the religion forum, but that doesn't count).

What we need is a larger focus on DDO's purpose, which is to serve as an intellectual community, and therefore I urge all active members to partake in this purpose. Please check out the other forums and chip in your opinion, or if you can participate in a debate over what you are curious about. Active DDO members, if they care about DDO as an intellectual community, should feel obligated to be an example of what a member of DDO is like. They should provide an example for new members on what DDO expects and what DDO provides.

I mentioned something similar to this the other day, but no one wants to listen. At least, I'm not the only one whos thinking this.
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Raisor
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8/27/2014 8:26:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/27/2014 7:52:26 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 8/27/2014 7:23:31 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
im a newer member, so idk about how the site used to be, but i can certainly say that for a site called "debate.org", there is a LOT more social networking type stuff going on around here than there is debating, at least among the active members. browsing the debate records of older members, i can see that almost all of their most high-quality debates happened at least a year ago, with debates between the site's best being much more frequent back then. i suppose i have no right to speak, though, seeing that none of my 5 debates thus far have been anything great...

No, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. The active debating scene has declined a great deal and with some notable exceptions most of the new members tend to be less interested in debating once the old members get tired of it as they inevitably do. Especially these days you have everyone with these godawful high win ratios because people don't debate anymore. It's easy to rack up a huge win ratio and ELO when you don't debate anyone who can beat you. If it wasn't for the friends I've made here I would definitely be gone. But here I am bitchingg about this with no intention of having a serious debate any time soon, so it guess I too don't have room to talk.

Maybe there should be a "Changing of the Guard" tournament, 2+ yr members vs 2- yr members. Points based on wins, winner take all, loser has to leave DDO forever.