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DDO's silent support of sexual violence

kbub
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9/25/2014 2:11:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Recently, a debate has been put forward by Wylted and accepted by YaHey. The debate was called "rape battle," and it challenged to put forward the "best rape" to win.

The best rape.

Historically, debate.org has had issues being welcoming to minorities. Posting racist and sexist polls on the website is commonplace. Making blatantly homophobic and Transphobic remarks on the forums is considered a matter-of-course. And now this.

"Here is my second story it involves 4 fat chicks raping a drunk dude after a night of partying. The good news is these fat chicks were never caught."

Beyond the mere exhibition of rape victims without their consent as if they were memes or gifs, Wylted has taken to exoticising rape. He asks us to follow him, as if in a museum, to observe an point to the different displays of sexual violence. He asks us to admire the "best" of them--the weirdest, the most exotic. He directs our attention to the ugly, the queer: "Look at this rape! This one has fat chicks." Or, "See this rape by a man and a woman against the woman's sister who was sold into slavery." The horror of the victim is somehow made even more amusing because the women were fat, or the fact that one victim was a slave, or the fact that one victim was raped by a member of her family.

Wylted's "battle" trivializes sexual violence, insults victims of sexual violence, and parades their traumatic experiences for the entertainment and judgement of the other debate.org members. The triple rape committed by three fat women and the double rape committed by a lesbian-mistress-sister and another man merely add to the entertainment of the display of acts of sexual violence that Wylted puts forward.

The truth is that the "best" rape is no rape at all. We have an obligation to put this truth forward wherever and however we can--be in in the comments, in a forum, in a vote, in a debate, or in a discussion. YaHey responded appropriately to Wylted's display--he pointed out that rape isn't a game, and having a contest to display the most outrageous rape victims/attackers is not a game. All worthy points. The best line of the debate is the end: "You do not inspire shock, my friend [Wylted]. You inspire pity."

But I was shocked by the debate. Not only by the willingness of one member to make up this horrid game in the first place, but the willingness with which members of DDO let that happen, and even approved of it. The website's "best" debaters took turns voting for Wylted, without a word condemning or even rebutting his inappropriate display.

A total of 20 people voted on the debate so far, and together they awarded him 95 points. Only one debater gave YaHey even a conduct point, leaving him a total of 1 point. The comments displayed varying level of depravity, from whiteflame who suggested that criticism of the debate ought to be moved to the comments, to tylergram who praised the debate as "Best raep stories 5evar," to TUF who (in the comments) said the debate "Had me on the floor laughing until the boring last round," to Mikal who offered Wylted's rape stories win because they "turned everyone on." I am appalled at all the members, both those who actively supported Wylted's display of sexual violence and those who couldn't be bothered to oppose it.

Every single voter effectively admitted that the "best" rapes were those that Wylted displayed. Many of the voters suggested that it is inappropriate to oppose sexual violence in a debate round, even if one's opponent is supporting sexual violence, if doing so is off-topic. The worst proclaimed that sexual violence is kinky, which violates the dignity of both these rape victims and every victim of sexual violence.

I am ashamed by debate.org's silent and outspoken toleration of sexual violence, and of rape. I am not saying this merely to condemn debate.org, but to hopefully make it better. Right now, the statistics in DDO show that there is a definite male over female majority. Furthermore, there are almost no black bodies on this website. This system must change, and it begins and ends with us--it's members. We have no one else to blame. Apathy is no longer sufficient (was it ever?). We must dedicate ourselves to fighting oppression in all its forms--whether by reporting bullies, by challenging racist assumptions, or by defending victims of sexual violence. We must do so in the forums, in the comments, in the messages, in the debates, in the video conversations, in the forums, in the polls, and even in our games of mafia.

I would lie if I said I don't feel a twinge of shame at being a member of debate.org at this moment. But I believe in that shame, I nurture that shame. That shame means that there is something wrong with the way things are, that this-THIS-is not the way things are supposed to be. Shame brings me hope that people everywhere will be motivated enough to make a difference. At this juncture, however, I feel an overwhelming pessimism that people do not learn, and oppressive systems do not change. Have you felt that before? I invite you, and beg you really, to prove me wrong.

Thanks for your time.
Mikal
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9/25/2014 2:40:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Disagree with this entire thing for logical reasons. It's a debate site, people are allowed extremest views. Whether it be racism, socialism, or objectifying women in every manner possible. That does not mean they are correct, but you cannot restrict someone from thinking and debating what they want. If they can logically defend there position, or even just want to believe what they believe they are allowed to believe that. That again does not mean they view is correct but you cannot restrict them from having that view as wrong as it may be.

Nor does it warrant a 7 point vote bomb in said debate due to confirmation bias

*cough*
whiteflame
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9/25/2014 2:40:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 2:11:09 PM, kbub wrote:
Recently, a debate has been put forward by Wylted and accepted by YaHey. The debate was called "rape battle," and it challenged to put forward the "best rape" to win.

The best rape.

Historically, debate.org has had issues being welcoming to minorities. Posting racist and sexist polls on the website is commonplace. Making blatantly homophobic and Transphobic remarks on the forums is considered a matter-of-course. And now this.

"Here is my second story it involves 4 fat chicks raping a drunk dude after a night of partying. The good news is these fat chicks were never caught."

Beyond the mere exhibition of rape victims without their consent as if they were memes or gifs, Wylted has taken to exoticising rape. He asks us to follow him, as if in a museum, to observe an point to the different displays of sexual violence. He asks us to admire the "best" of them--the weirdest, the most exotic. He directs our attention to the ugly, the queer: "Look at this rape! This one has fat chicks." Or, "See this rape by a man and a woman against the woman's sister who was sold into slavery." The horror of the victim is somehow made even more amusing because the women were fat, or the fact that one victim was a slave, or the fact that one victim was raped by a member of her family.

Wylted's "battle" trivializes sexual violence, insults victims of sexual violence, and parades their traumatic experiences for the entertainment and judgement of the other debate.org members. The triple rape committed by three fat women and the double rape committed by a lesbian-mistress-sister and another man merely add to the entertainment of the display of acts of sexual violence that Wylted puts forward.

The truth is that the "best" rape is no rape at all. We have an obligation to put this truth forward wherever and however we can--be in in the comments, in a forum, in a vote, in a debate, or in a discussion. YaHey responded appropriately to Wylted's display--he pointed out that rape isn't a game, and having a contest to display the most outrageous rape victims/attackers is not a game. All worthy points. The best line of the debate is the end: "You do not inspire shock, my friend [Wylted]. You inspire pity."

But I was shocked by the debate. Not only by the willingness of one member to make up this horrid game in the first place, but the willingness with which members of DDO let that happen, and even approved of it. The website's "best" debaters took turns voting for Wylted, without a word condemning or even rebutting his inappropriate display.

A total of 20 people voted on the debate so far, and together they awarded him 95 points. Only one debater gave YaHey even a conduct point, leaving him a total of 1 point. The comments displayed varying level of depravity, from whiteflame who suggested that criticism of the debate ought to be moved to the comments, to tylergram who praised the debate as "Best raep stories 5evar," to TUF who (in the comments) said the debate "Had me on the floor laughing until the boring last round," to Mikal who offered Wylted's rape stories win because they "turned everyone on." I am appalled at all the members, both those who actively supported Wylted's display of sexual violence and those who couldn't be bothered to oppose it.

Every single voter effectively admitted that the "best" rapes were those that Wylted displayed. Many of the voters suggested that it is inappropriate to oppose sexual violence in a debate round, even if one's opponent is supporting sexual violence, if doing so is off-topic. The worst proclaimed that sexual violence is kinky, which violates the dignity of both these rape victims and every victim of sexual violence.

I am ashamed by debate.org's silent and outspoken toleration of sexual violence, and of rape. I am not saying this merely to condemn debate.org, but to hopefully make it better. Right now, the statistics in DDO show that there is a definite male over female majority. Furthermore, there are almost no black bodies on this website. This system must change, and it begins and ends with us--it's members. We have no one else to blame. Apathy is no longer sufficient (was it ever?). We must dedicate ourselves to fighting oppression in all its forms--whether by reporting bullies, by challenging racist assumptions, or by defending victims of sexual violence. We must do so in the forums, in the comments, in the messages, in the debates, in the video conversations, in the forums, in the polls, and even in our games of mafia.

I would lie if I said I don't feel a twinge of shame at being a member of debate.org at this moment. But I believe in that shame, I nurture that shame. That shame means that there is something wrong with the way things are, that this-THIS-is not the way things are supposed to be. Shame brings me hope that people everywhere will be motivated enough to make a difference. At this juncture, however, I feel an overwhelming pessimism that people do not learn, and oppressive systems do not change. Have you felt that before? I invite you, and beg you really, to prove me wrong.

Thanks for your time.

I know you're upset with the situation, kbub, but these accusations you're throwing at every voter on that debate are taking it a little far. I can't speak for everyone, but in my case, my vote is not an expression of my views on rape, nor does it treat Wylted's choice of topic and the examples used to support his position as reasonable. I made it quite clear in my vote that YaHey's usage of insults in this debate in no way warranted what should have been an obvious conduct point for him. His "arguments" were, at best, pseudo critiques of the topic without the necessary reasoning to afford him a vote. YaHey basically used the debate as an outlet to express his hatred of the topic, and while I can sympathize with him, that is not reason enough to afford him a vote.

If your point is that my vote and others should have included some explicit condemnation of Wylted and the debate as a whole, I don't think it's my place as a voter to inject my emotional sentiments into my decision. As a member of DDO, I found the topic repugnant and the examples excruciating, but I don't have to express those views in my decision, nor does my decision reflect my views, something I've made great efforts to distance myself from in judging debates. I'll let the others speak for themselves if they so wish, but personally, I take issue with the view that my vote somehow indicates my willingness to tolerate rape in general.
Mikal
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9/25/2014 2:52:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
and white flame hit the main contention behind this. Inserting that all voters in favor of wylted are essentially bigots because they removed their opinions and voted objectively on the debate via the rules and guidelines set up is just a incoherent statement. In fact you are literally in support of confirmation bias at that point, and saying "award con arguments because he made the right choice"

(a) There is no morally correct choice to make and you are asserting your own personal thoughts as an objective standard for which the debate should be judged

(b) The guy clearly broke the rules set up in round 1 and did nothing the entire debate

I like you as a person, but everything you just typed was a giant load of bs and literally supports confirmation bias even if it is against deplorable viewpoints.
kbub
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9/25/2014 2:57:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 2:40:25 PM, whiteflame wrote:
At 9/25/2014 2:11:09 PM, kbub wrote:
Recently, a debate has been put forward by Wylted and accepted by YaHey. The debate was called "rape battle," and it challenged to put forward the "best rape" to win.

The best rape.

Historically, debate.org has had issues being welcoming to minorities. Posting racist and sexist polls on the website is commonplace. Making blatantly homophobic and Transphobic remarks on the forums is considered a matter-of-course. And now this.

"Here is my second story it involves 4 fat chicks raping a drunk dude after a night of partying. The good news is these fat chicks were never caught."

Beyond the mere exhibition of rape victims without their consent as if they were memes or gifs, Wylted has taken to exoticising rape. He asks us to follow him, as if in a museum, to observe an point to the different displays of sexual violence. He asks us to admire the "best" of them--the weirdest, the most exotic. He directs our attention to the ugly, the queer: "Look at this rape! This one has fat chicks." Or, "See this rape by a man and a woman against the woman's sister who was sold into slavery." The horror of the victim is somehow made even more amusing because the women were fat, or the fact that one victim was a slave, or the fact that one victim was raped by a member of her family.

Wylted's "battle" trivializes sexual violence, insults victims of sexual violence, and parades their traumatic experiences for the entertainment and judgement of the other debate.org members. The triple rape committed by three fat women and the double rape committed by a lesbian-mistress-sister and another man merely add to the entertainment of the display of acts of sexual violence that Wylted puts forward.

The truth is that the "best" rape is no rape at all. We have an obligation to put this truth forward wherever and however we can--be in in the comments, in a forum, in a vote, in a debate, or in a discussion. YaHey responded appropriately to Wylted's display--he pointed out that rape isn't a game, and having a contest to display the most outrageous rape victims/attackers is not a game. All worthy points. The best line of the debate is the end: "You do not inspire shock, my friend [Wylted]. You inspire pity."

But I was shocked by the debate. Not only by the willingness of one member to make up this horrid game in the first place, but the willingness with which members of DDO let that happen, and even approved of it. The website's "best" debaters took turns voting for Wylted, without a word condemning or even rebutting his inappropriate display.

A total of 20 people voted on the debate so far, and together they awarded him 95 points. Only one debater gave YaHey even a conduct point, leaving him a total of 1 point. The comments displayed varying level of depravity, from whiteflame who suggested that criticism of the debate ought to be moved to the comments, to tylergram who praised the debate as "Best raep stories 5evar," to TUF who (in the comments) said the debate "Had me on the floor laughing until the boring last round," to Mikal who offered Wylted's rape stories win because they "turned everyone on." I am appalled at all the members, both those who actively supported Wylted's display of sexual violence and those who couldn't be bothered to oppose it.

Every single voter effectively admitted that the "best" rapes were those that Wylted displayed. Many of the voters suggested that it is inappropriate to oppose sexual violence in a debate round, even if one's opponent is supporting sexual violence, if doing so is off-topic. The worst proclaimed that sexual violence is kinky, which violates the dignity of both these rape victims and every victim of sexual violence.

I am ashamed by debate.org's silent and outspoken toleration of sexual violence, and of rape. I am not saying this merely to condemn debate.org, but to hopefully make it better. Right now, the statistics in DDO show that there is a definite male over female majority. Furthermore, there are almost no black bodies on this website. This system must change, and it begins and ends with us--it's members. We have no one else to blame. Apathy is no longer sufficient (was it ever?). We must dedicate ourselves to fighting oppression in all its forms--whether by reporting bullies, by challenging racist assumptions, or by defending victims of sexual violence. We must do so in the forums, in the comments, in the messages, in the debates, in the video conversations, in the forums, in the polls, and even in our games of mafia.

I would lie if I said I don't feel a twinge of shame at being a member of debate.org at this moment. But I believe in that shame, I nurture that shame. That shame means that there is something wrong with the way things are, that this-THIS-is not the way things are supposed to be. Shame brings me hope that people everywhere will be motivated enough to make a difference. At this juncture, however, I feel an overwhelming pessimism that people do not learn, and oppressive systems do not change. Have you felt that before? I invite you, and beg you really, to prove me wrong.

Thanks for your time.

I know you're upset with the situation, kbub, but these accusations you're throwing at every voter on that debate are taking it a little far. I can't speak for everyone, but in my case, my vote is not an expression of my views on rape, nor does it treat Wylted's choice of topic and the examples used to support his position as reasonable. I made it quite clear in my vote that YaHey's usage of insults in this debate in no way warranted what should have been an obvious conduct point for him. His "arguments" were, at best, pseudo critiques of the topic without the necessary reasoning to afford him a vote. YaHey basically used the debate as an outlet to express his hatred of the topic, and while I can sympathize with him, that is not reason enough to afford him a vote.

If your point is that my vote and others should have included some explicit condemnation of Wylted and the debate as a whole, I don't think it's my place as a voter to inject my emotional sentiments into my decision. As a member of DDO, I found the topic repugnant and the examples excruciating, but I don't have to express those views in my decision, nor does my decision reflect my views, something I've made great efforts to distance myself from in judging debates. I'll let the others speak for themselves if they so wish, but personally, I take issue with the view that my vote somehow indicates my willingness to tolerate rape in general.

I think I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think you can circumvent the fact that you voted that Wylted's rape stories were the "best." Nor do I think you can you were justified by giving a conduct point for his making debate.org a hostile place for victims of sexual violence.

You have a right to your vote. You also have a right to be displeased by insults. I know I often am. But focusing on the insults masks whether or not they are legitimate, in the same way focusing on only acts of civil disobedience ignores their original purpose.

If I were in YaHey's shoes, I'd have done the exact same thing. I'd have been sarcastic, because rape isn't funny. I'd have insulted the instigator, because they did something truly worthy of insulting. I'd have made a fuss.

As for my vote, it says that no rape is the best. YaHey provided no rape.

Furthermore, what YaHey says about this entire project is on the money. By focusing on YaHeys insult merely in the fact that it is an insult, one ignores the -content- of that insult.

In my opinion, the instigator has been far more insulting--insulting to everyone who has suffered from sexual violence. I will not allow that conduct to go
RevL8ion
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9/25/2014 3:05:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
In my own opinion, whenever someone does something like this, I just try not to interfere. Inevitably, there will always be people like this in any world, so it"s best to stay out of their way.
Check out my DDO FanFic! http://www.debate.org...

"Revelation is a tyrannical despot, not 13 years old." -max.wallace

"hehehehe...ahahaha....wahaha...AHHHHHHHHHHHAHA....pant...pant...pant...""...that's like sex for you, isn't it?" RevL8ion on DDO and FlyingForever on Skype

"Just remember that Yama is more powerful than you, little mortal." -Yama

"XD I like you, Rev. Maybe I won't kill you off right away." -Endark
kbub
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9/25/2014 3:06:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 2:52:26 PM, Mikal wrote:
and white flame hit the main contention behind this. Inserting that all voters in favor of wylted are essentially bigots because they removed their opinions and voted objectively on the debate via the rules and guidelines set up is just a incoherent statement. In fact you are literally in support of confirmation bias at that point, and saying "award con arguments because he made the right choice"


(a) There is no morally correct choice to make and you are asserting your own personal thoughts as an objective standard for which the debate should be judged

(b) The guy clearly broke the rules set up in round 1 and did nothing the entire debate


I like you as a person, but everything you just typed was a giant load of bs and literally supports confirmation bias even if it is against deplorable viewpoints.

I've been itching to ask--do you really get off on real life example of rape? Or is that just a funny thing to say?

I don't know you. I don't know your soul, or your intent, or really anything. All I know is te content of your words, and that is what I am critiquing. Not because I think it's fun, but because I can't live with myself if I ignore it.

You talk about confirmation bias. I'm pretty sure I outlined exactly what I found wrong and disturbing about the debate.

You and whiteflame have called me "emotional." Good. I am. There are some things worth being angry about, and trivializing sexual violence, parading sexual violence, having a contest for which violence agaist a victim is your favorite... For me, that's one of them. I find it odd that this display, which in real life violated the dignity of people far braver than I, is not considered and insult; and yet, saying "you are sexist" is. It looks to me like the way things are going, sexism will never be punished, but people who fight sexism will be.

Anyway, that's a good bit of my rant.
kbub
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9/25/2014 3:11:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:05:06 PM, RevL8ion wrote:
In my own opinion, whenever someone does something like this, I just try not to interfere. Inevitably, there will always be people like this in any world, so it"s best to stay out of their way.

There are times for that. But if that's your motto for life, then you are hardly innocent. Your apathy at others but not you recovering injustice makes you just as responsible. If this is the way you live, then you benefit from others' harm. You are just as responsible for injustice as the explicit oppressors.
Zylorarchy
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9/25/2014 3:14:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Morality aside. What exactly is a "best rape". The definition of "best" is "of the most excellent or desirable type or quality." And the definition of rape is "a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse (or other forms of sexual penetration) initiated against one or more individuals without the consent of those individuals".

So how exactly can we have a most excellent, highest quality non-consensual sexual intercourse? You simply cannot. A "best rape" cannot possibly exist for there is no way in measuring what constitutes a better rape than another.

Besides, it is clear that Wylted is an ignorant fool who has never taken anything seriously in his life. And I don't normally attack people personally. But I think when he makes claims that he is a satanist and finds being a "dik" amusing... it is clear this is not even a serious debate. But seeing as nothing could ever constitute a "best rape", then I can see why.
"I am not intolerant of religion, I am intolerant of intolerance"
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Mikal
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9/25/2014 3:17:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:06:46 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 2:52:26 PM, Mikal wrote:
and white flame hit the main contention behind this. Inserting that all voters in favor of wylted are essentially bigots because they removed their opinions and voted objectively on the debate via the rules and guidelines set up is just a incoherent statement. In fact you are literally in support of confirmation bias at that point, and saying "award con arguments because he made the right choice"


(a) There is no morally correct choice to make and you are asserting your own personal thoughts as an objective standard for which the debate should be judged

(b) The guy clearly broke the rules set up in round 1 and did nothing the entire debate


I like you as a person, but everything you just typed was a giant load of bs and literally supports confirmation bias even if it is against deplorable viewpoints.

I've been itching to ask--do you really get off on real life example of rape? Or is that just a funny thing to say?

I don't know you. I don't know your soul, or your intent, or really anything. All I know is te content of your words, and that is what I am critiquing. Not because I think it's fun, but because I can't live with myself if I ignore it.

You talk about confirmation bias. I'm pretty sure I outlined exactly what I found wrong and disturbing about the debate.

You and whiteflame have called me "emotional." Good. I am. There are some things worth being angry about, and trivializing sexual violence, parading sexual violence, having a contest for which violence agaist a victim is your favorite... For me, that's one of them. I find it odd that this display, which in real life violated the dignity of people far braver than I, is not considered and insult; and yet, saying "you are sexist" is. It looks to me like the way things are going, sexism will never be punished, but people who fight sexism will be.

Anyway, that's a good bit of my rant.

Rape is obviously bad in our minds, does that make it a an absolute or a moral negative everywhere? That is obviously a no. Some people and cultures could be fine with it, and if they are that is on them. We in America have labeled it as bad for obvious reasons, thus it is morally wrong in this culture to commit.

You are allotted your own thoughts and perspective on any matter that is available, that however does not give you the right to trounce over someone else if they see a viewpoint differently than you. You cannot objectively declare your position absolute, and then apply it that way. If someone has an incoherent view point, that is on them and they are allowed to have that. No one in most cases would be okay with rape, but some people like to laugh if off. If you disagree with it that's fine but the entire point was that what you believe and what your personal opinion is should no contribute to confirmation bias within votes.

If you find yourself at a emotional cross roads regarding a debate issue, take it upon yourself not to vote. As Ragnar often does or abides by. Some debates are better not voted on by some people

You cannot logically justify your RFD in that debate. It is looking for a reason to vote for con because you support his position. He literally violated the rules set out in R1.
RevL8ion
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9/25/2014 3:19:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:11:12 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:05:06 PM, RevL8ion wrote:
In my own opinion, whenever someone does something like this, I just try not to interfere. Inevitably, there will always be people like this in any world, so it"s best to stay out of their way.

There are times for that. But if that's your motto for life, then you are hardly innocent. Your apathy at others but not you recovering injustice makes you just as responsible. If this is the way you live, then you benefit from others' harm. You are just as responsible for injustice as the explicit oppressors.

Of course, I don't mean to just lazily watch them corrupt this world. I might have sounded like that, so apologies on my own behalf. What I meant was not to tangle with evil for too long, or you will be caught in its webs and turned to evil yourself. Besides, Wylted isn't too depraved. We should first blame the people who committed these heinous crimes. I'm not one to argue with you, though, since as my elder you've obviously seen more horrors in your lifetime than I have.
Check out my DDO FanFic! http://www.debate.org...

"Revelation is a tyrannical despot, not 13 years old." -max.wallace

"hehehehe...ahahaha....wahaha...AHHHHHHHHHHHAHA....pant...pant...pant...""...that's like sex for you, isn't it?" RevL8ion on DDO and FlyingForever on Skype

"Just remember that Yama is more powerful than you, little mortal." -Yama

"XD I like you, Rev. Maybe I won't kill you off right away." -Endark
kbub
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9/25/2014 3:20:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:14:39 PM, Zylorarchy wrote:
Morality aside. What exactly is a "best rape". The definition of "best" is "of the most excellent or desirable type or quality." And the definition of rape is "a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse (or other forms of sexual penetration) initiated against one or more individuals without the consent of those individuals".

So how exactly can we have a most excellent, highest quality non-consensual sexual intercourse? You simply cannot. A "best rape" cannot possibly exist for there is no way in measuring what constitutes a better rape than another.

Besides, it is clear that Wylted is an ignorant fool who has never taken anything seriously in his life. And I don't normally attack people personally. But I think when he makes claims that he is a satanist and finds being a "dik" amusing... it is clear this is not even a serious debate. But seeing as nothing could ever constitute a "best rape", then I can see why.

Absolutely, although I do not think that Wylted is unintelligent, but in fact highly intelligent. Just very very wrong, especially in this case.
ESocialBookworm
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9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.
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MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
RevL8ion
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9/25/2014 3:21:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:06:46 PM, kbub wrote:

You and whiteflame have called me "emotional." Good. I am.

I would like to refer to it as "compassionate."
Check out my DDO FanFic! http://www.debate.org...

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"hehehehe...ahahaha....wahaha...AHHHHHHHHHHHAHA....pant...pant...pant...""...that's like sex for you, isn't it?" RevL8ion on DDO and FlyingForever on Skype

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Zylorarchy
Posts: 209
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9/25/2014 3:22:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:20:08 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:14:39 PM, Zylorarchy wrote:
Morality aside. What exactly is a "best rape". The definition of "best" is "of the most excellent or desirable type or quality." And the definition of rape is "a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse (or other forms of sexual penetration) initiated against one or more individuals without the consent of those individuals".

So how exactly can we have a most excellent, highest quality non-consensual sexual intercourse? You simply cannot. A "best rape" cannot possibly exist for there is no way in measuring what constitutes a better rape than another.

Besides, it is clear that Wylted is an ignorant fool who has never taken anything seriously in his life. And I don't normally attack people personally. But I think when he makes claims that he is a satanist and finds being a "dik" amusing... it is clear this is not even a serious debate. But seeing as nothing could ever constitute a "best rape", then I can see why.

Absolutely, although I do not think that Wylted is unintelligent, but in fact highly intelligent. Just very very wrong, especially in this case.

Perhaps you are right about Wylted, though I will have lost any respect for him out of this debate. I merely (in my post) tried to point out that, morality, aside, this debate is implausible due to the reasons I gave. A "best rape" cannot possibly exist.
"I am not intolerant of religion, I am intolerant of intolerance"
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RevL8ion
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9/25/2014 3:23:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:20:08 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:14:39 PM, Zylorarchy wrote:
Morality aside. What exactly is a "best rape". The definition of "best" is "of the most excellent or desirable type or quality." And the definition of rape is "a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse (or other forms of sexual penetration) initiated against one or more individuals without the consent of those individuals".

So how exactly can we have a most excellent, highest quality non-consensual sexual intercourse? You simply cannot. A "best rape" cannot possibly exist for there is no way in measuring what constitutes a better rape than another.

Besides, it is clear that Wylted is an ignorant fool who has never taken anything seriously in his life. And I don't normally attack people personally. But I think when he makes claims that he is a satanist and finds being a "dik" amusing... it is clear this is not even a serious debate. But seeing as nothing could ever constitute a "best rape", then I can see why.

Absolutely, although I do not think that Wylted is unintelligent, but in fact highly intelligent. Just very very wrong, especially in this case.

Unfortunately, power given to the wrong person has a tendency to be used for immoral acts. Intellectual power, in this case, has obviously rotted.
Check out my DDO FanFic! http://www.debate.org...

"Revelation is a tyrannical despot, not 13 years old." -max.wallace

"hehehehe...ahahaha....wahaha...AHHHHHHHHHHHAHA....pant...pant...pant...""...that's like sex for you, isn't it?" RevL8ion on DDO and FlyingForever on Skype

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RevL8ion
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9/25/2014 3:24:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.

What really pisses me off is that this is on the front page of the website. Wylted's made DDO look as it it's full of perverts like him. >.>
Check out my DDO FanFic! http://www.debate.org...

"Revelation is a tyrannical despot, not 13 years old." -max.wallace

"hehehehe...ahahaha....wahaha...AHHHHHHHHHHHAHA....pant...pant...pant...""...that's like sex for you, isn't it?" RevL8ion on DDO and FlyingForever on Skype

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whiteflame
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9/25/2014 3:27:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I know you're upset with the situation, kbub, but these accusations you're throwing at every voter on that debate are taking it a little far. I can't speak for everyone, but in my case, my vote is not an expression of my views on rape, nor does it treat Wylted's choice of topic and the examples used to support his position as reasonable. I made it quite clear in my vote that YaHey's usage of insults in this debate in no way warranted what should have been an obvious conduct point for him. His "arguments" were, at best, pseudo critiques of the topic without the necessary reasoning to afford him a vote. YaHey basically used the debate as an outlet to express his hatred of the topic, and while I can sympathize with him, that is not reason enough to afford him a vote.

If your point is that my vote and others should have included some explicit condemnation of Wylted and the debate as a whole, I don't think it's my place as a voter to inject my emotional sentiments into my decision. As a member of DDO, I found the topic repugnant and the examples excruciating, but I don't have to express those views in my decision, nor does my decision reflect my views, something I've made great efforts to distance myself from in judging debates. I'll let the others speak for themselves if they so wish, but personally, I take issue with the view that my vote somehow indicates my willingness to tolerate rape in general.

I think I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think you can circumvent the fact that you voted that Wylted's rape stories were the "best."

Already, you're mischaracterizing my vote. If I vote for someone in a live debate on topicality, my vote doesn't represent a vote for their case being the better of the two. If I vote against someone as a result of their opponent getting up, saying they're insulted by the opposing case, and sitting down, I am not supporting their opponent's case in the process. I'm making a decision before I ever look at the substance of the cases themselves, on the basis of whether both debaters have fulfilled their burdens. Wylted, at least to some extent, attempted to meet his burden. YaHey didn't even try to do so, nor did he establish a separate burden than he must meet. Lacking that, YaHey loses based on technical issues, not on the basis that Wylted established that his "rape stories where the 'best.'"

Nor do I think you can you were justified by giving a conduct point for his making debate.org a hostile place for victims of sexual violence.

I think I"m justified in giving conduct points based on personal attacks as well. YaHey made it quite clear that that's what he wanted to spend a great deal of his time doing. You think I'd be justified in ignoring his behavior on the basis that Wylted was being hostile to a number of people beyond the debate. I think I'd be more justified, within the confines of the debate, to afford that point to Wylted, as the first thing I'm concerned with in a debate is how the debaters treat each other. I decided not to do so on the basis that Wylted conducted himself poorly by creating the topic and endeavoring to support it as he did. In both cases, they are guilty of conduct violations in my estimation, and I chose not to weigh them against one another. Like it or not, debate isn't just about whether you personally feel insulted by someone's argument.

You have a right to your vote. You also have a right to be displeased by insults. I know I often am. But focusing on the insults masks whether or not they are legitimate, in the same way focusing on only acts of civil disobedience ignores their original purpose.

If I were in YaHey's shoes, I'd have done the exact same thing. I'd have been sarcastic, because rape isn't funny. I'd have insulted the instigator, because they did something truly worthy of insulting. I'd have made a fuss.

And I imagine you would have made efforts to run a full-fledged Kritik as well, as you have before. You likely would have gotten my vote in doing so, though your insults would have similarly lost you the conduct point. YaHey failed to provide any analysis on why he should win the debate on any level, and as such, I'm forced to go with the only argument that's on topic, no matter how deplorable that topic may be.

As for my vote, it says that no rape is the best. YaHey provided no rape.

Please. He did not present rape as a couterplan, and if he had, it still would have had to come in the form of a Kritik, since it is, at best, slightly off topic. He failed to do that. You're a technical debater, I'm surprised at your willingness to overlook the obvious deficits in his arguments for the sake of emotional appeal.

Furthermore, what YaHey says about this entire project is on the money. By focusing on YaHeys insult merely in the fact that it is an insult, one ignores the -content- of that insult.

They're personal attacks. It doesn't matter if you feel they're accurately applied. He directly impugned Wylted's character, not solely the case itself. That's a problem from my perspective.

In my opinion, the instigator has been far more insulting--insulting to everyone who has suffered from sexual violence. I will not allow that conduct to go

If you want to weigh that conduct violation higher, that's your choice. It is not mine, and I've already explained why in great detail.
kbub
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9/25/2014 3:31:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.

You're right, it would have been better had the debate been deleted. Whether or not YaHey should have accepted the vote--we may disagree. I personally think it was admirable of her/him to use this debate as a platform of advocacy and change, and to declare that such rhetorical--in any form, at any time--in unwelcome on debate.org.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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9/25/2014 3:34:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I agree that the debate is pretty disgusting and probably shouldn't have been tolerated. I would, however like to see some evidence for your charge of this site being unwelcome to minorities and gay people because, frankly, that's just not true.
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
dynamicduodebaters
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9/25/2014 3:43:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:34:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
I agree that the debate is pretty disgusting and probably shouldn't have been tolerated. I would, however like to see some evidence for your charge of this site being unwelcome to minorities and gay people because, frankly, that's just not true.'

Agreed.
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kbub
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9/25/2014 3:49:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:34:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
I agree that the debate is pretty disgusting and probably shouldn't have been tolerated. I would, however like to see some evidence for your charge of this site being unwelcome to minorities and gay people because, frankly, that's just not true.

Thanks for your comments and interest!

I've got a list compiled. If you can, please message me later and I'll give a sample.

Recently, before gender was not a forced m/f, I looked up the statistics. I disproportionate number of debaters were male. I then looked at the highest ranking, and found that gap was far larger--there were far, far more men ranked over 2500 than female, and at 3000 the gap increased more. Are women worse at debating? I find that unlikely. I hypothesize instead that for some reason, this website is unfriendly to debating women, and especially debating women who can succeed. I'm not sure if it's voter bias, if it's unfriendly comments, or if it's problematic rhetoric like the kind found in this debate, or problematic marketing that has made this website unfriendly to highly skillful women debaters. It could be a combination of all of them. Or none of them. But something needs to change.

Look through the photos of debaters sometime. Tally the bodies of white people against the bodies of people of color (Latin@, black, First Nation, etc. all separately of course). There is a disproportionate number of white people in regard to the United States and the common European countries on this website. Let alone the Congo or Peru.

The explicit anti-minority comments I've kept track of (a small fraction) I'll send to you if you remind me. Thanks again!
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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9/25/2014 3:55:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is an excellent reason why we should euthanize all raped women. That way these discussions don't offend said women.
YaHey
Posts: 43
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9/25/2014 4:16:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:31:09 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.

You're right, it would have been better had the debate been deleted. Whether or not YaHey should have accepted the vote--we may disagree. I personally think it was admirable of her/him to use this debate as a platform of advocacy and change, and to declare that such rhetorical--in any form, at any time--in unwelcome on debate.org.

Okay, so I guess people are wondering why I accepted the debate. I did this for a few reasons.
1. I knew my message of screw trivializing rape and any form of sexual harrassment.
2. Before I accepted, I saw several people thinking about accepting. Perhaps it is "childish" of me (although I think it is a hell of a lot more mature than having a rape battle) but I didn't want to give Wylted the satisfaction of actually having that debate.
Mikal
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9/25/2014 4:30:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.

It's not going to get deleted as none of the other views on extreme issues are. There is a debate in the hall of fame about black people being done. It's a debate site, if you don't like extreme positions or topics leave.
Mikal
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9/25/2014 4:34:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 4:30:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.

It's not going to get deleted as none of the other views on extreme issues are. There is a debate in the hall of fame about black people being done. It's a debate site, if you don't like extreme positions or topics leave.

dumb*
kbub
Posts: 1,377
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9/25/2014 6:10:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 4:30:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:20:38 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
I refused to vote on the debate because of its idiocy.

@Mikal, rape is not an 'extreme view.' It's a fucked up thing to do to anyone- violating one's most private and personal areas, making someone feel helpless and the effects to the person- mostly psychologically- can be detrimental. This was a stupid debate, trivializing sexual violence as kbub said.

That said, HOWEVER, YaHey accepted the stupid debate, for God-alone-knows what reason. He *could* have left the challenge- for no one to accept and Wylted to see what A DUMB debate it was.

tl dr:

This debate should not have happened and should just be deleted.

It's not going to get deleted as none of the other views on extreme issues are. There is a debate in the hall of fame about black people being done. It's a debate site, if you don't like extreme positions or topics leave.

I will not allow you nor any one else to bully me into submission, silence, or off the site. I am painfully aware that we award accolades to racism, but thanks for the reminder. I also have never said that censorship is the way to root out racism and sexism on this website.

There are easier ways.

We could avoid saying racist and sexist things in our comments, in our forums, and in our RFDs. We can stop condoning racism, sexism, cisism, and all the other forms of exclusion and start condemning them. We don't have to rely on airmax to defend homosexuality, Trans* expression, or people of color (have we ever?). The problem is us--we the members of debate.org--and no one else. I pray we can also be the solution.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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9/25/2014 6:21:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:49:09 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/25/2014 3:34:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
I agree that the debate is pretty disgusting and probably shouldn't have been tolerated. I would, however like to see some evidence for your charge of this site being unwelcome to minorities and gay people because, frankly, that's just not true.

Thanks for your comments and interest!

I've got a list compiled. If you can, please message me later and I'll give a sample.

Recently, before gender was not a forced m/f, I looked up the statistics. I disproportionate number of debaters were male. I then looked at the highest ranking, and found that gap was far larger--there were far, far more men ranked over 2500 than female, and at 3000 the gap increased more. Are women worse at debating? I find that unlikely. I hypothesize instead that for some reason, this website is unfriendly to debating women, and especially debating women who can succeed. I'm not sure if it's voter bias, if it's unfriendly comments, or if it's problematic rhetoric like the kind found in this debate, or problematic marketing that has made this website unfriendly to highly skillful women debaters. It could be a combination of all of them. Or none of them. But something needs to change.

The thing is, a hypothesis requires evidence. It can't be post hoc. If there truly is discrimination against females on the site, the fact that females are less well represented in the debate leaderboard doesn't prove anything because there are a lot of factors at play. It's not as if a lot of women join this site and are immediately turned off by its sexist chauvinism--or if they are, I haven't seen any examples of that. Rather what's happening is that women just aren't as interested in online debating but the ones who have been here have generally been quite successful and welcomed by the community. So yeah, this is one of those "do you have a card for that" moments. Where's the sexism? Wylteds debate is pretty fuckedd up, I'll agree, but I'll also note that by making rape an issue affecting only women *you're* the one being sexist. Wylted is just being an assshole and, indeed, one of his selected rapes had a male victim.

Look through the photos of debaters sometime. Tally the bodies of white people against the bodies of people of color (Latin@, black, First Nation, etc. all separately of course). There is a disproportionate number of white people in regard to the United States and the common European countries on this website. Let alone the Congo or Peru.

Again, you're taking statistics and making assumptions about them. Where's the racism? I also would like to see the statistics. Are whites really over represented? Do you have proof of this?

The explicit anti-minority comments I've kept track of (a small fraction) I'll send to you if you remind me. Thanks again!

I would like to see that list.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
ESocialBookworm
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9/25/2014 6:32:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 3:55:49 PM, Envisage wrote:
This is an excellent reason why we should euthanize all raped women. That way these discussions don't offend said women.

Wtf Shaun
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.