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WODC prizegiving/results

larztheloser
Posts: 857
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9/27/2014 12:28:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Awesome tournament! Was fun to organize.

BEST DEBATER

After an exciting tournament, here are your top 5 debaters in the inaugural online debate cup:

1bsh1 (DDO)
2Ajabi (DDO)
3nzlockie(Edeb8)
49spaceking (DDO)
5Krit(Edeb8)

bsh1 and Ajabi will have a final to determine the overall winner. Congratulations also to the runners up: 9spaceking came very close after almost having an upset win over bsh1 in the final round, Krit was looking remarkably strong until the later rounds, and nzlockie staged a remarkable comeback in the last few rounds to almost make the final. Well done also to cooldudebro, who ended placing respectably despite starting late, and really to all debaters who didn't drop out, as everyone finished with 2 or more win points.

Ajabi will be affirming the topic in the final. The final will be held on edeb8.

The full draw/results can be seen on the official tournament website: http://www.edeb8.com...

BEST JUDGE

Congratulations to our best judge of the tournament, Whiteflame (DDO)! bladerunner060 (DDO) placed a very close second. I see this as DDO's voting strategy in action, which is great. Thanks to everybody who voted.

The following also deserve credit for multiple votes in the tournament: YYW, Cooldudebro, 9spaceking and Ragnar.

BEST SITE

Average final position of contestants from each participating site (lower is better):
DDO average = 7.5
Edeb8 average = 6.2

Well done to edeb8 for winning best site by over an entire place! DDO had the odds stacked against them after a large number of drop-outs, and nzlockie's spectacular comeback basically sealed DDO's fate here. Better luck next year DDO!
whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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9/27/2014 12:43:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Heh, I hadn't even known that my votes were getting such recognition. Needless to say, bladerunner would have been just as deserving if not more so, given the high quality of his votes.

It seems as though the tournament as a whole was a worthy endeavor, Larz, and I hope you'll try this again (hopefully with a larger contingent of debaters participating from a wider variety of sites, though I know you did what you could this time around). Congratulations on a tournament well-run, and to everyone who participated. Also, congrats to bsh1 and Ajabi for making it to the final round! Good luck, guys!
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,360
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9/27/2014 8:19:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 12:43:12 AM, whiteflame wrote:

It seems as though the tournament as a whole was a worthy endeavor, Larz, and I hope you'll try this again (hopefully with a larger contingent of debaters participating from a wider variety of sites, though I know you did what you could this time around). Congratulations on a tournament well-run, and to everyone who participated. Also, congrats to bsh1 and Ajabi for making it to the final round! Good luck, guys!

^
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
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9/28/2014 1:20:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 12:28:21 AM, larztheloser wrote:
Awesome tournament! Was fun to organize.

BEST DEBATER

After an exciting tournament, here are your top 5 debaters in the inaugural online debate cup:

1bsh1 (DDO)
2Ajabi (DDO)
3nzlockie(Edeb8)
49spaceking (DDO)
5Krit(Edeb8)

bsh1 and Ajabi will have a final to determine the overall winner. Congratulations also to the runners up: 9spaceking came very close after almost having an upset win over bsh1 in the final round, Krit was looking remarkably strong until the later rounds, and nzlockie staged a remarkable comeback in the last few rounds to almost make the final. Well done also to cooldudebro, who ended placing respectably despite starting late, and really to all debaters who didn't drop out, as everyone finished with 2 or more win points.

Ajabi will be affirming the topic in the final. The final will be held on edeb8.

The full draw/results can be seen on the official tournament website: http://www.edeb8.com...

BEST JUDGE

Congratulations to our best judge of the tournament, Whiteflame (DDO)! bladerunner060 (DDO) placed a very close second. I see this as DDO's voting strategy in action, which is great. Thanks to everybody who voted.

The following also deserve credit for multiple votes in the tournament: YYW, Cooldudebro, 9spaceking and Ragnar.

BEST SITE

Average final position of contestants from each participating site (lower is better):
DDO average = 7.5
Edeb8 average = 6.2

Well done to edeb8 for winning best site by over an entire place! DDO had the odds stacked against them after a large number of drop-outs, and nzlockie's spectacular comeback basically sealed DDO's fate here. Better luck next year DDO!

The two finalists are from DDO, and yet edeb8's creator claims his site as the best site? Does no-one else here on DDO see this nonsense?!

Justify it with drop-outs all you want, but DDO still came out on top. I'd go so far as to say it shows just how poor Edeb8's debaters did considering that even with all the DDO drop-outs your debaters still couldn't come out on top. I know it's hard to admit that your own site lost it's own tournament, but the facts are that both finalists were DDO debaters. Your site seems to be a few spaces down from being the "best", it's just a matter of you choosing to be honest with yourself or not.
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9spaceking
Posts: 4,213
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9/28/2014 1:26:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 1:20:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:28:21 AM, larztheloser wrote:
Awesome tournament! Was fun to organize.

BEST DEBATER

After an exciting tournament, here are your top 5 debaters in the inaugural online debate cup:

1bsh1 (DDO)
2Ajabi (DDO)
3nzlockie(Edeb8)
49spaceking (DDO)
5Krit(Edeb8)

bsh1 and Ajabi will have a final to determine the overall winner. Congratulations also to the runners up: 9spaceking came very close after almost having an upset win over bsh1 in the final round, Krit was looking remarkably strong until the later rounds, and nzlockie staged a remarkable comeback in the last few rounds to almost make the final. Well done also to cooldudebro, who ended placing respectably despite starting late, and really to all debaters who didn't drop out, as everyone finished with 2 or more win points.

Ajabi will be affirming the topic in the final. The final will be held on edeb8.

The full draw/results can be seen on the official tournament website: http://www.edeb8.com...

BEST JUDGE

Congratulations to our best judge of the tournament, Whiteflame (DDO)! bladerunner060 (DDO) placed a very close second. I see this as DDO's voting strategy in action, which is great. Thanks to everybody who voted.

The following also deserve credit for multiple votes in the tournament: YYW, Cooldudebro, 9spaceking and Ragnar.

BEST SITE

Average final position of contestants from each participating site (lower is better):
DDO average = 7.5
Edeb8 average = 6.2

Well done to edeb8 for winning best site by over an entire place! DDO had the odds stacked against them after a large number of drop-outs, and nzlockie's spectacular comeback basically sealed DDO's fate here. Better luck next year DDO!

The two finalists are from DDO, and yet edeb8's creator claims his site as the best site? Does no-one else here on DDO see this nonsense?!

Justify it with drop-outs all you want, but DDO still came out on top. I'd go so far as to say it shows just how poor Edeb8's debaters did considering that even with all the DDO drop-outs your debaters still couldn't come out on top. I know it's hard to admit that your own site lost it's own tournament, but the facts are that both finalists were DDO debaters. Your site seems to be a few spaces down from being the "best", it's just a matter of you choosing to be honest with yourself or not.
hey, it's average placement, not final two. And you gotta admit my vote for krit was unfair. Nz might have gotten 2cd place ahead of ajabi if I didn't vote against him in an biased quick messy fashion.
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YYW
Posts: 36,271
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9/28/2014 1:37:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 1:20:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:28:21 AM, larztheloser wrote:
Awesome tournament! Was fun to organize.

BEST DEBATER

After an exciting tournament, here are your top 5 debaters in the inaugural online debate cup:

1bsh1 (DDO)
2Ajabi (DDO)
3nzlockie(Edeb8)
49spaceking (DDO)
5Krit(Edeb8)

bsh1 and Ajabi will have a final to determine the overall winner. Congratulations also to the runners up: 9spaceking came very close after almost having an upset win over bsh1 in the final round, Krit was looking remarkably strong until the later rounds, and nzlockie staged a remarkable comeback in the last few rounds to almost make the final. Well done also to cooldudebro, who ended placing respectably despite starting late, and really to all debaters who didn't drop out, as everyone finished with 2 or more win points.

Ajabi will be affirming the topic in the final. The final will be held on edeb8.

The full draw/results can be seen on the official tournament website: http://www.edeb8.com...

BEST JUDGE

Congratulations to our best judge of the tournament, Whiteflame (DDO)! bladerunner060 (DDO) placed a very close second. I see this as DDO's voting strategy in action, which is great. Thanks to everybody who voted.

The following also deserve credit for multiple votes in the tournament: YYW, Cooldudebro, 9spaceking and Ragnar.

BEST SITE

Average final position of contestants from each participating site (lower is better):
DDO average = 7.5
Edeb8 average = 6.2

Well done to edeb8 for winning best site by over an entire place! DDO had the odds stacked against them after a large number of drop-outs, and nzlockie's spectacular comeback basically sealed DDO's fate here. Better luck next year DDO!

The two finalists are from DDO, and yet edeb8's creator claims his site as the best site? Does no-one else here on DDO see this nonsense?!

Of course it is, although more broadly the tournament itself was a farce.

Justify it with drop-outs all you want, but DDO still came out on top. I'd go so far as to say it shows just how poor Edeb8's debaters did considering that even with all the DDO drop-outs your debaters still couldn't come out on top. I know it's hard to admit that your own site lost it's own tournament, but the facts are that both finalists were DDO debaters. Your site seems to be a few spaces down from being the "best", it's just a matter of you choosing to be honest with yourself or not.

The fact that Larz allows miscreants on his site should be enough to keep most off of it.

Clearly, DDO is better and this is the place where the final debate should be held for several reasons:

1. DDO debaters won.
2. DDO debaters are better.
3. DDO as a site has more and better voters.
4. DDO does not have the miscreants that Larz allows on his site.
5. DDO members will ensure that another absurdly rationalized 'win' will not emerge from this final debate as Larz rationalized his site's win.

Even still, I've been horribly disappointed with Larz and this tournament.

See This debate: http://www.debate.org...

The resolution is one of the most egregiously biased resolutions I've ever seen. Larz claims that he "assigned" it because it was an 'official' resolution from some debating society somewhere. It's a stupid resolution, and it was irresponsible of him to assign it. Potentially even malicious, since he handicapped bsh1 so substantially.

But, this is the nonsense that went down in this tournament Larz hosted -and these threads he's making about how his site 'won' and how he's the victim of whatever happened to bother him are getting on my nerves.
Tsar of DDO
larztheloser
Posts: 857
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9/28/2014 2:25:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 1:37:56 PM, YYW wrote:

YYW, you can't be disappointed when you had no expectation to begin with. You're the one who egged me to leave DDO in the first place. You're the reason I don't debate here anymore. You've been taunting and harassing me on every one of my threads. I have done nothing to you. Never have I personally attacked you, yet you have personally attacked me, and you have made a point of doing so at every opportunity. And now you claim I'm getting on your nerves? What about? Does it burn you up inside to think that I have feelings too? That I'm a real human being?

I didn't make any decisions of where to host the final. I didn't "rationalize" anything. I'm not making this up as I go along. These were rules determined before the tournament which were completely fair to all debaters and participating sites. Now if you have a problem with that and want to construct a tournament involving multiple sites that is not based on fair and consistent rules, then be my guest.

So stop making this an attack on me personally. Attack the tournament, fine, but do NOT attack me. This has nothing to do with me. You're just bent on attacking me for no reason. Stop.
nzlockie
Posts: 25
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9/28/2014 3:36:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think this tournament was a success. I feel like there are definitely things to improve on if it happens again... I wasn't happy that in five rounds I only got to debate three different people. I didn't like the fact that a DDO participant was able to cost me a shot at the title with an epic vote bomb - (although I do appreciate the fact that he admits and regrets it.)

These and more critiques are being asked and answered in this thread: http://www.edeb8.com...

Accusations that Lars is trying to spin the results in favour of Edeb8 are probably well founded. (Sorry Lars) I can't really blame him to be honest. He is passionate about debate, passionate about Edeb8 and has an agenda to push. He's entitled to do so in much the same way I and millions of my countrymen will argue long and hard that the ABs have been robbed each and every time they lose. (Which is not often)
He has a vested interest.

BUT accusations that the tournament was rigged are grossly out of place. He went out of his way to ensure that every aspect was completely transparent, he put rules in place which were fair, but also meant that Edeb8 was potentially going to be massively disadvantaged - namely that participants couldn't vote on debates hosted at their home site.
He himself abstained from voting, even when Spaceking's blantant votebomb virtually guaranteed to knock one of Edeb8's participants out of contention.
All rules and criteria were posted well before the tournament started and all participants were made aware of them.

Regarding the motions, for heaven's sake, sack up. That motion is absolutely an official WUDC resolution and, as such, will have come under scrutiny by people far more invested and far more knowledgeable than ourselves. Most recently it was used as Round 7 of the Chennai Worlds. http://debatemotioncentral.blogspot.co.nz...

The results tab shows an fairly even balance of wins for either side, and extended searches have revealed absolutely NO complaints that ANY of the resolutions at that event were biased.

And it wasn't like it was only DDO that got a random res they didn't like - spare a thought for finding out that you're arguing against one of the DDO favourites that "All speed limits should be abolished"!

The tournament was fair. A DDO person will be crowned the winner. I think most of the participants enjoyed it. Edeb8 is a very small site and although I won't be proclaiming us the winning site, I feel like we performed just fine. Parties from both sites are perfectly entitled to argue afterwards, just as in any sporting contest - but in this case, accusations of a personal nature are completely unwarranted.

And on that note, regarding Edeb8 "allowing miscreants"... puhlease. Did you think DDO was the only site that would allow people with extreme viewpoints on it? At least we haven't had a debate glorifying rape yet.
Yeah, way to claim that moral high ground YYW...
ESocialBookworm
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9/28/2014 3:44:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 3:36:46 PM, nzlockie wrote:
And on that note, regarding Edeb8 "allowing miscreants"... puhlease. Did you think DDO was the only site that would allow people with extreme viewpoints on it? At least we haven't had a debate glorifying rape yet.
Yeah, way to claim that moral high ground YYW...
pew pew pew #shots-fired #truth

---

As with every site, I believe we all have our weak links, whether it's idiots or idiotic resolutions and debates. *shrugs* We just have to work around it.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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9/28/2014 3:50:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 1:26:03 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
Nz might have gotten 2cd place ahead of ajabi if I didn't vote against him in an biased quick messy fashion.

In a realm of bad votes and non coherency. Hell would freeze over before dude beat ajab in debate. I would love to see that happen though
Mikal
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9/28/2014 3:50:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 3:50:35 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 9/28/2014 1:26:03 PM, 9spaceking wrote:
Nz might have gotten 2cd place ahead of ajabi if I didn't vote against him in an biased quick messy fashion.

In a realm of bad votes and non coherency. Hell would freeze over before dude beat ajab in debate. I would love to see that happen though

them debate that is*
YYW
Posts: 36,271
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9/28/2014 6:22:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Larz, the idea that I am "just bent" on attacking you is a fantasy, and what I said was in no way an "attack."

I'm sure that there are those who, for whatever reason, do not recognize the inherent problems with assigning Bsh1 the topic he got. The reasons for that are irrelevant, where the beginning and end of a person's response ignores the substance behind why Larz assigning the topic he did is problematic.

It is possible that Larz was simply negligent in choosing a topic that was not egregiously biased, but I think not likely. If Larz was slow or stupid, the conversation we are having would be different. I know that Larz is smart enough to know that the topic he assigned is biased, that it is egregiously biased and that despite that he assigned the disadvantaged side to Bsh1. His only defense was that the topic was an "official" resolution from some generally unknown debate society.

Nonsense, the lot of it.

But at this point, it's settled. I made a point of not making a fuss about it until the tournament was over because doing so would be improper, but now that the tournament is over it's time to air the grievances. There were huge problems with the tournament, and the tournament's administration. And again, the notion that edeb8 won is a complete farce.

Larz, I am personally sorry that you individual sensitivity makes any observation of objective fact that paints you in an unfavorable light rises, in your mind, to the level of a personal attack which merits a response of the kind that you've posted here. That will not, however, prevent me from doing so. If you don't want to have your mistakes pointed out to you, then in the future take good care to not make them. The fact that you have an irrational persecution complex does not mean that you are entitled to skirt accountability.

And to this other person who has come to Larz's relative defense, realize that I did not say that the tournament was "rigged." I said it was irresponsible, among other things, for Larz to take a specific action. Before you respond to things, do take prudent care to ensure that you understand what you're responding too -lest you embarrass yourself before us all, much in the same fashion that Larz appears so inclined to do.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,271
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9/28/2014 6:30:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 3:36:46 PM, nzlockie wrote:
I think this tournament was a success. I feel like there are definitely things to improve on if it happens again... I wasn't happy that in five rounds I only got to debate three different people. I didn't like the fact that a DDO participant was able to cost me a shot at the title with an epic vote bomb - (although I do appreciate the fact that he admits and regrets it.)

These and more critiques are being asked and answered in this thread: http://www.edeb8.com...

Accusations that Lars is trying to spin the results in favour of Edeb8 are probably well founded. (Sorry Lars) I can't really blame him to be honest. He is passionate about debate, passionate about Edeb8 and has an agenda to push. He's entitled to do so in much the same way I and millions of my countrymen will argue long and hard that the ABs have been robbed each and every time they lose. (Which is not often)
He has a vested interest.

BUT accusations that the tournament was rigged are grossly out of place. He went out of his way to ensure that every aspect was completely transparent, he put rules in place which were fair, but also meant that Edeb8 was potentially going to be massively disadvantaged - namely that participants couldn't vote on debates hosted at their home site.
He himself abstained from voting, even when Spaceking's blantant votebomb virtually guaranteed to knock one of Edeb8's participants out of contention.
All rules and criteria were posted well before the tournament started and all participants were made aware of them.

Regarding the motions, for heaven's sake, sack up. That motion is absolutely an official WUDC resolution and, as such, will have come under scrutiny by people far more invested and far more knowledgeable than ourselves. Most recently it was used as Round 7 of the Chennai Worlds. http://debatemotioncentral.blogspot.co.nz...

The results tab shows an fairly even balance of wins for either side, and extended searches have revealed absolutely NO complaints that ANY of the resolutions at that event were biased.

And it wasn't like it was only DDO that got a random res they didn't like - spare a thought for finding out that you're arguing against one of the DDO favourites that "All speed limits should be abolished"!

And on that note, regarding Edeb8 "allowing miscreants"... puhlease. Did you think DDO was the only site that would allow people with extreme viewpoints on it? At least we haven't had a debate glorifying rape yet.
Yeah, way to claim that moral high ground YYW...

On a general scale of 1-10, where 10 is a good response and 1 is an inferior one, this is about a 3. Let's explore why:

While you acknowledged that there were certain problems with some of the things that Larz did, when your responded to the point I made you failed to demonstrate even a minimally adequate level of comprehension of what I said. I did not say that the tournament was rigged, and the totality of your response as it relates to what I said proceeds from that premise.

But what you did not say is even more significant. Rather than explain why the resolution was not biased, which might have countered what I said, you instead opted to posture the same nonsense that Larz did. Just because some world debating order employs a certain topic does not make it good or unbiased. If anything, the fact that the organization would employ such a topic speaks more of the organization itself than it does of the resolution... but I digress.

Your incorporation of irrelevant information, as a way to reframe the discussion, was to no productive end. Clearly, you didn't read the debate Wylted cited, because if you did you would not have made that idiotic comment -and make no mistake, your comment was idiotic. If it is your general habit to make off the cuff remarks that have no bearing in reality while showcasing your ignorance, it would serve you prudently to discontinue doing so henceforth. It is embarrassing for you, and for the site you claim to represent.

As it were, I think you were a member that once was on DDO and left. If you are who I think you are, it is a pity that you returned -and especially under these circumstances. Even still, edeb8, I'm sure, welcomes you.
Tsar of DDO
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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9/28/2014 6:35:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 12:28:21 AM, larztheloser wrote:
Awesome tournament! Was fun to organize.

BEST DEBATER

After an exciting tournament, here are your top 5 debaters in the inaugural online debate cup:

1bsh1 (DDO)
2Ajabi (DDO)
3nzlockie(Edeb8)
49spaceking (DDO)
5Krit(Edeb8)

bsh1 and Ajabi will have a final to determine the overall winner. Congratulations also to the runners up: 9spaceking came very close after almost having an upset win over bsh1 in the final round, Krit was looking remarkably strong until the later rounds, and nzlockie staged a remarkable comeback in the last few rounds to almost make the final. Well done also to cooldudebro, who ended placing respectably despite starting late, and really to all debaters who didn't drop out, as everyone finished with 2 or more win points.

Ajabi will be affirming the topic in the final. The final will be held on edeb8.

The full draw/results can be seen on the official tournament website: http://www.edeb8.com...

BEST JUDGE

Congratulations to our best judge of the tournament, Whiteflame (DDO)! bladerunner060 (DDO) placed a very close second. I see this as DDO's voting strategy in action, which is great. Thanks to everybody who voted.

The following also deserve credit for multiple votes in the tournament: YYW, Cooldudebro, 9spaceking and Ragnar.

BEST SITE

Average final position of contestants from each participating site (lower is better):
DDO average = 7.5
Edeb8 average = 6.2

Well done to edeb8 for winning best site by over an entire place! DDO had the odds stacked against them after a large number of drop-outs, and nzlockie's spectacular comeback basically sealed DDO's fate here. Better luck next year DDO!

Is the tab/results functionality shown in the lnk built into edb8 or are you just able to do that as admin?

Either way its cool seeing results organized like that. I will look out for the next wave of WODC.
nzlockie
Posts: 25
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9/28/2014 8:43:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
@ YYW - Thanks for the rating mate. And I love to explore...

It appears that you've jumped on the defensive pretty quick. I wasn't directing any of my comment exclusively at you except for the last part.

The inference that the tournament was rigged by Lars by hand picking resolutions that would disadvantage certain participants or skewing the scoring system to favour one site over another didn't come exclusively from this thread at all. In fact I'm rather ashamed to admit that I was one of the ones asking such questions towards the beginning of the tournament!
Sorry if you thought my whole post was about you...

I didn't defend the resolution because I don't need to. When drafting a motion, using one already chosen and vetted by a legitimate international debating body like the WUDC must SURELY be satisfactory and at the very least, must surely be less biased than drafting one yourself - which is the position Lars found himself in.
I also haven't defended the resolution because that would simply derail this thread into a debate. Ironically, it would end up being the exact debate you feel was so biased!

--------
That being said... personally I agree that this debate ends up being about the role of Government. A solid case can be made that government's role is to ensure the safety of its people. This would indicate that it SHOULD require safety testing on drugs. But ensuring the effectiveness of the drugs could be argued to be more of a consumer issue.
As always, Cars are a nice comparison. Nobody contests that cars should be safety tested, but there is no need for government to have to test them to make sure they actually work. The market will soon weed out those cars that don't run. Much cheaper and much more efficient.
Should a drug be found to be unsafe, the government can step in. Should a drug be found to be ineffective, the drug companies can be sued under a number of existing laws.
---------

Back to your comments:
You're correct I hadn't read that debate. Why on earth would I? My wife uses this computer. Do you think I want to explain to her why I was looking up a debate that rates the best rapes?!
I logged into DDO to try and find Bsh to let him know that we are into the cross examination round of our debate on Edeb8, and I see, "Rape War - Who can post the best rape?" as the #1 featured debate on the main screen. Nice welcome.
Thanks to your comment, I have now briefly read it. I'm not sure why you think that changes anything. That whole debate was rubbish. I then found some comments of people trying to defend it as being satire, sarcasm, a joke, a right to push the boundaries... the list goes on. (In fact, as a genuine fan of real satire, it actually prompted me to start a thread on satire on Edeb8.)
Don't take MY word for it, from a look at this forum I'm not the only one who thinks that it was a step over the line.

And that's only one debate. Let's say I get challenged to find a debate where someone is purely pushing a racist agenda. Not making an intellectual case for eugenics or anything, just simply using this site as a forum to shout racist propaganda. How long do you think that would take me?
Sorry mate - if you think that those kinds of debates are something to be proud of then more power to you.
Like I said, calling Edeb8 out for habouring miscreants when you have this kind of thing going on over here is just hypocritical.

YYW - I have no beef with you personally. I don't even know you. I can assure you I have never been a member of this site until this tournament, although I'd be interested to know who you thought I was. I've never even thought of doing debate before a year ago. My path to Edeb8 has been well documented on that site.
I apologise to Edeb8 and to Lars if my comments here have been a poor reflection on them. I assure you, any idiocy you perceive is all mine and should not be representative of that site.
I only named you specifically because your five points were mildly offensive to me and your attitude seemed a little aggressive and amusingly out of character with the little love heart you have in your signature. It seemed like it would be fun to poke you.
And it was.
larztheloser
Posts: 857
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9/29/2014 2:57:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 6:22:02 PM, YYW wrote:
Larz, the idea that I am "just bent" on attacking you is a fantasy, and what I said was in no way an "attack."

I'm sure that there are those who, for whatever reason, do not recognize the inherent problems with assigning Bsh1 the topic he got. The reasons for that are irrelevant, where the beginning and end of a person's response ignores the substance behind why Larz assigning the topic he did is problematic.

It is possible that Larz was simply negligent in choosing a topic that was not egregiously biased, but I think not likely. If Larz was slow or stupid, the conversation we are having would be different. I know that Larz is smart enough to know that the topic he assigned is biased, that it is egregiously biased and that despite that he assigned the disadvantaged side to Bsh1. His only defense was that the topic was an "official" resolution from some generally unknown debate society.

If this is all about bsh1's topic, then I can answer it very simply by saying that I did not assign it. I had Microsoft Excel give me a random number. Then I used that number to choose from a list of topics that were the most evenly matched at Worlds tournaments (in terms of placements in recent years), used in the current tournament, or suggested prior to the competition. In this case it was a Worlds tournament - which incidentally, is not some obscure society, but the largest conglomerate of societies from all over the world, with a comprehensive process to ensure that topics are fairly matched. Prior to the tournament debaters were able to raise objection to any topic on the list and request its removal. Nobody thought any topic was unfair then.

The so-called "substance" of why I presented the topic is not because I thought it was fair, which it just so happens that I do. It's that the world's best judges thought it was fair. No tournament has ever assigned topics in this way. No tournament has ever had the topics reviewed either so extensively or impartially. By attacking this part of this tournament, you're basically just attacking every other tournament as well. If you think the process can be improved, then tell me. I invited ANYBODY to tell me the topics were impartial and I would have removed them. It's only unfair to scream that the topics are partial AFTER the topic was already assigned.

I'm pretty happy with the broad range of debates this tournament covered in the end. This tournament had more debates than any that have happened on DDO before, and I think that was beneficial.

But at this point, it's settled. I made a point of not making a fuss about it until the tournament was over because doing so would be improper, but now that the tournament is over it's time to air the grievances. There were huge problems with the tournament, and the tournament's administration. And again, the notion that edeb8 won is a complete farce.

That's weird, because if I remember back to the original thread about the WODC, before it even began, you already made a post telling me that nobody cares about my tournament. You never miss an opportunity to attack me. You have not refrained from commenting on that topic before and the comments of the debate prove it.

The notion that edeb8 won is not my personal opinion. It is simply determined by a set of fair criteria that I invited comment on, and everybody was happy with. DDO dominated 2 out of 3 awards and clearly had many debaters who were better. The issue is that often a more "average" site can get a better "average" position. This is not to neglect the awesome effort put in by many debaters over at edeb8 who punched well above their weight, but simply to point out that sometimes you can get statistical anomalies like that in any tournament. It was not an arbitrary decision made by the tournament administration.

The fact that you have an irrational persecution complex does not mean that you are entitled to skirt accountability.

Let me just assume for a moment that I have a persecution complex. How on earth would you know if it's irrational? I might have the most rational reason in the world and you wouldn't even know about it.

I'm happy to be held accountable on the proviso that the things I am held to account for are actually true. You're making stuff up that I didn't do, and you're not even being constructive about it.
larztheloser
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9/29/2014 2:57:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 6:35:12 PM, Raisor wrote:
Is the tab/results functionality shown in the lnk built into edb8 or are you just able to do that as admin?

Either way its cool seeing results organized like that. I will look out for the next wave of WODC.

Thanks!

The tab part is built in but I haven't made it available yet because I'm waiting for edeb8 to have more active members before just anyone makes a big tournament. Some of the other presentational stuff, the odds voting etc, I added specifically for this tournament. It's a really boring backend and it doesn't support knock-out tournaments. So even when I do make it available there'll be a bit of work. Still, there's a good chance that by the time of the next WODC it will be generally available.