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A clarification of my position

kbub
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9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
After reading some responses to my posts on "DDO's silent support of sexual violence," I thought it would be appropriate to clarify my position.

First of all.

I have absolutely no problem with Wylted's debate not being deleted.

I have absolutely no problem with Wylted's debate not being deleted.

I have absolutely no problem with Wylted's debate not being deleted.

It sometimes seems like no matter how many times I repeat that, that no one seems to remember. For the most part, I am against censorship whenever possible.

The fact is, I am not upset with Airmax or DDO policy. I am upset with its users. I am upset with Wylted for putting that debate up in the first place; however, that is not my focus. My focus is on all the people who defended that debate. Some of the people defended Wylted by defending freedom of speech. Since no one's freedom is in question, this red herring only works to subvert the discussion away defending survivors of sexual violence, and instead works to justify anyone who makes racist or sexist comments. (If you attack their comments, somehow you are threatening freedom of speech).

Next, another group decided to talk about how important it is that people don't use "emotions" or "bias" in voting. First of all, defending survivors of sexual violence is not reducible to "emotion" or "bias," though I guess they could be part of it. I've honestly never heard of being anti-rape called a "bias" before now.

Secondly, although I don't blame people for not liking my vote, they have taken it on themselves to discredit my post by talking about how they'll report it for being so bad. That's another red herring that moves the discussion away from the discussion of supporting sexual violence to discussion of voting bias. (And odd one too for those who support freedom of expression and anti-censorship). Moreover--and this I find really upsetting--even after it is revealed that people's votes consisted of "these rape stories turned me on" (a prominent debater said that alone for an RFD), people thought that a bias against rape was a bigger priority to censor than a bias for sexual violence. I think people really need to get their priorities straight. There have been many attacks on my posts that I don't mind, but I do mind such positions.

I never said that any member of DDO was a rapist. That would be a very inappropropriate comment.

I never said that any member of DDO was a rapist. That would be a very inappropropriate comment.

I did imply that Kahos_mage needs to be careful, because their ignorant understanding of sex (they said that if you're too drunk to give consent than "sex" is ok) could lead to future rape if they are not careful. I asked him to please be careful in the future to have acquired consent.

As for jazz, I think they're a troll, but that's no excuse. They took discussion away from the real silence of DDO on sexual violence to make claims that rape is good and whatnot, which is not funny and actually shockingly hard to distinguish between what people are actually saying on DDO.

Let's ignore all that for a moment and get the record straight. This is what I stand for: DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way. There is no appropriate time to defend sexual violence, especially not in a debate. It is always appropriate to defend survivors of sexual violence at any time and place, ESPECIALLY during a debate. That is why I fully support YaHey's decision.
imabench
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9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:

DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.

I disagree. Why should DDO stand together to discredit support of sexual violence at ANY time and in EVERY way? If someone crudely wants to poke some fun at a very controversial topic, that doesn't warrant DDO taking a grand stand against the topic as if to prove to themselves they are all good people. Imagine that Wylted instead made a debate called 'racism battle' where he would post stories of acts of racism as his arguments, should DDO in your opinion rise up and discredit support of it? What about murders, genocides, tortures, hangings, etc?

Just because someone very crudely pokes fun at something that is universally frowned upon, or wants to exploit the controversial nature of something for some gain, that doesn't mean DDO has to be called to action to discredit it. Some people simply have a twisted/controversial sense of humor. You can voice your displeasure for the debate sure, but asking everyone else on DDO to not share in Wylteds joke just because he made a joke about something most people don't approve of is overkill, especially since Wylted doesn't even condone sexual violence in the first place
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bsh1
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9/29/2014 11:01:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Just to reiterate, in part, my previous response to this same post:

My concern is that "discrediting" support of sexual violence could easily take the form of calling out members who make misogynist comments or insensitive debates. Wylted is one example of this. At that point, "discrediting" the support could morph into harassing the individuals who profess--sincerely or not--to be supporters of it. That would limit freedom of speech.

Conceptually, starting threads to discuss how wrong and cruel sexual violence is, is a great idea, but when it targets specific members or creates a slippery slope to that same end, it isn't.
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kbub
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9/29/2014 11:32:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:

DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.

I disagree. Why should DDO stand together to discredit support of sexual violence at ANY time and in EVERY way? If someone crudely wants to poke some fun at a very controversial topic

Is that what rape is to you? A controversial topic?

For many people, even 1/5 American women, rape is not a topic. It's a reality. The issue here is Wylted's making fun of these person's realities. He literally put examples of real rape stories on the internet for us to laugh at. Any one of those stories could have been mine, or another users. I could have been a sexual assault survivor, in which case Wylted would have invalidated my experience has "hilarious," or his "favorite rape." I could have been a rapist, and thought "yeah, that really wasn't a big deal." The post attacked all of us--all of our dignity as humans, and all of our right to not have our experiences be turned into a sport by Wylted.

, that doesn't warrant DDO taking a grand stand against the topic as if to prove to themselves they are all good people.

It does warrant standing up to this injustice. It's not about proving you are a good person--it's about choosing to do the right thing, and making a safe space for everyone. Survivors of sexual violence shouldn't have to fight against their experiences being made a sport--they've fought long and hard already. This is everyone's battle, and we should at least make it so that they can spend time on DDO without having people go unopposed for saying terrible things about rape. (In this case, actually doing terrible things with rape stories).

Imagine that Wylted instead made a debate called 'racism battle' where he would post stories of acts of racism as his arguments, should DDO in your opinion rise up and discredit support of it?

Yes. Always.

What about murders,

Yes.

genocides,

Yes.

tortures,

Yes.

hangings,

Yes.

Just because someone very crudely pokes fun at something

Not something. Someone. These are people's real experiences.

that is universally frowned upon,

Apparently not.

or wants to exploit the controversial nature of something for some gain,

I don't know why one would exploit survivors of rape, but that sounds really bad.

that doesn't mean DDO has to be called to action to discredit it.

If that is supported on DDO, then it should be opposed on DDO. Or else, DDO only advocates and does not defend sexual violence. You as a human being and an earthling and a debater also have a personal responsibility to fight these wrongs whenever you can.

Some people simply have a twisted/controversial sense of humor.

I really don't care about whether or not they find some amusement in making rape stories a sport.

You can voice your displeasure for the debate sure, but asking everyone else on DDO to not share in Wylteds joke just because he made a joke about something most people don't approve of is overkill,

Why?

especially since Wylted doesn't even condone sexual violence in the first place

I don't know Wylted personally. But the "debate," we all agree, is messed up.
imabench
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9/29/2014 12:40:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 11:32:08 AM, kbub wrote:
At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:

DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.

I disagree. Why should DDO stand together to discredit support of sexual violence at ANY time and in EVERY way? If someone crudely wants to poke some fun at a very controversial topic

Is that what rape is to you? A controversial topic?

Did I say thats all it was to me? No. I didnt. Try to stay on topic without going off on a pointless rant

The post attacked all of us--all of our dignity as humans, and all of our right to not have our experiences be turned into a sport by Wylted.

Thats a load of horse sh**..... Wylted's debate didnt attack anyone or anything, you only are so offended by it that you feel as if you were attacked, when all wylted did was crudely use the cases of rapes to make a controversial debate. Wylted didnt make the debate with animosity towards anyone, and those who voted for him didnt do it with animosity towards anyone else either, you cant seem to accept that though.

, that doesn't warrant DDO taking a grand stand against the topic as if to prove to themselves they are all good people.

It does warrant standing up to this injustice. It's not about proving you are a good person--it's about choosing to do the right thing, and making a safe space for everyone.

Seriously? The very nature of debate is questioning what people believe in, not about making them feel safe and fuzzy inside.

Survivors of sexual violence shouldn't have to fight against their experiences being made a sport--they've fought long and hard already.

Making one debate about it one time doesnt count as 'making it into a sport'....

This is everyone's battle,

No its not. Youre only trying to make it everyones battle when a good chunk of this site couldnt care less about wylted's debate or your outrage against it

Imagine that Wylted instead made a debate called 'racism battle' where he would post stories of acts of racism as his arguments, should DDO in your opinion rise up and discredit support of it?

Yes. Always.

What about murders,

Yes.

genocides,

Yes.

tortures,

Yes.

hangings,

Yes.

So everything that you dont like that you find offensive shouldnt be debated in the first place, got it.

Just because someone very crudely pokes fun at something that is universally frowned upon, or wants to exploit the controversial nature of something for some gain, that doesn't mean DDO has to be called to action to discredit it.

If that is supported on DDO, then it should be opposed on DDO. Or else, DDO only advocates and does not defend sexual violence.

Now youre just dealing in extremes. Sexual violence is heavily opposed on DDO (as evidenced by the number of dislikes on Wylted's debate and the number of people who commented about why the debate was bad), just not every single time by every single person. Its already evident that a vast majority of DDO is against sexual violence, you just want it to be 100% all the time for some pointless reason.

There is no question that people on DDO oppose sexual violence, youre just upset that there isnt more opposition to it.

You as a human being and an earthling and a debater also have a personal responsibility to fight these wrongs whenever you can.

Except I dont..... As a human and a debater im within my rights to not give a sh** about Wylted's debate and simply let it go since its a pointless debate that will soon be erased by time itself.

Some people simply have a twisted/controversial sense of humor.

I really don't care about whether or not they find some amusement in making rape stories a sport.

Clearly you do since youre trying to call everyone to arms to make a moral crusade against it.

You can voice your displeasure for the debate sure, but asking everyone else on DDO to not share in Wylteds joke just because he made a joke about something most people don't approve of is overkill,

Why?

Because you dont and never will have the authority to tell people what they are supposed to do or feel towards a topic or debate. If people dont care enough about a controversial topic or already have made it clear that they dont support sexual violence, then they dont have to repeat their stance to everyone when every single opportunity presents itself, and thats exactly what you are requesting people to do.
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kbub
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9/29/2014 1:37:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 12:40:15 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 11:32:08 AM, kbub wrote:
At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:

DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.

I disagree. Why should DDO stand together to discredit support of sexual violence at ANY time and in EVERY way? If someone crudely wants to poke some fun at a very controversial topic

Is that what rape is to you? A controversial topic?

Did I say thats all it was to me? No. I didnt. Try to stay on topic without going off on a pointless rant

Please don't censor my comments you don't like. Here was what I posted:

For many people, even 1/5 American women, rape is not a topic. It's a reality. The issue here is Wylted's making fun of these person's realities. He literally put examples of real rape stories on the internet for us to laugh at. Any one of those stories could have been mine, or another users. I could have been a sexual assault survivor, in which case Wylted would have invalidated my experience has "hilarious," or his "favorite rape." I could have been a rapist, and thought "yeah, that really wasn't a big deal." The post attacked all of us--all of our dignity as humans, and all of our right to not have our experiences be turned into a sport by Wylted.

It explains my grievances against Wylted's game. You probably shouldn't delete that.


The post attacked all of us--all of our dignity as humans, and all of our right to not have our experiences be turned into a sport by Wylted.

Thats a load of horse sh**..... Wylted's debate didnt attack anyone or anything, you only are so offended by it that you feel as if you were attacked, when all wylted did was crudely use the cases of rapes to make a controversial debate.

Yes, it was crude. Yes, he made rape a game. Yes, he made me feel I was attacked. Because I am a human, and I believe in dignity and autonomy. If I were born in different circumstances, those acts could have been against me. Same for you. This insult should apply to everyone: Likewise everyone should be offended by sexism, racism, cisism, etc.

Wylted didnt make the debate with animosity towards anyone, and those who voted for him didnt do it with animosity towards anyone else either, you cant seem to accept that though.

, that doesn't warrant DDO taking a grand stand against the topic as if to prove to themselves they are all good people.

It does warrant standing up to this injustice. It's not about proving you are a good person--it's about choosing to do the right thing, and making a safe space for everyone.

Seriously? The very nature of debate is questioning what people believe in, not about making them feel safe and fuzzy inside.

Survivors of sexual violence shouldn't have to fight against their experiences being made a sport--they've fought long and hard already.

Making one debate about it one time doesnt count as 'making it into a sport'....

They literally made a game where you rank your favorite rape. "Rape battle." Yes this was one time (until other people started imitating, and Airmax had to intervene). This one time is bad enough.

Your post seems super irrelevant.

This is everyone's battle,

No its not. Youre only trying to make it everyones battle when a good chunk of this site couldnt care less about wylted's debate or your outrage against it

Cross-apply:
Yes, he made me feel I was attacked. Because I am a human, and I believe in dignity and autonomy. If I were born in different circumstances, those acts could have been against me. Same for you. This insult should apply to everyone: Likewise everyone should be offended by sexism, racism, cisism, etc.

You criticize my "rant" as being unimportant. What is important? Whether Frozen is better than Lion King (your debate)?

I don't much care what people on the website feel about me as a person. I do, however, want to make DDO more sensitive to important issues and raise activists out of the apathetic. I hope people care about the important issues of this website.


Imagine that Wylted instead made a debate called 'racism battle' where he would post stories of acts of racism as his arguments, should DDO in your opinion rise up and discredit support of it?

Yes. Always.

What about murders,

Yes.

genocides,

Yes.

tortures,

Yes.

hangings,

Yes.

So everything that you dont like that you find offensive shouldnt be debated in the first place, got it.

You say that I am the one who finds murders and rapes and racism offensive. Don't you?

As to whether or not they should be debated--I think we can be clear that this particular game of ranking sexual violence shouldn't have been put forward by Wylted but was excellently debated by YaHey.


Just because someone very crudely pokes fun at something that is universally frowned upon, or wants to exploit the controversial nature of something for some gain, that doesn't mean DDO has to be called to action to discredit it.

If that is supported on DDO, then it should be opposed on DDO. Or else, DDO only advocates and does not defend sexual violence.

Now youre just dealing in extremes. Sexual violence is heavily opposed on DDO (as evidenced by the number of dislikes on Wylted's debate and the number of people who commented about why the debate was bad), just not every single time by every single person. Its already evident that a vast majority of DDO is against sexual violence, you just want it to be 100% all the time for some pointless reason.

There is no question that people on DDO oppose sexual violence, youre just upset that there isnt more opposition to it.

Well, I have made my stance clear. I'm sure you'll feel free to disagree.

You as a human being and an earthling and a debater also have a personal responsibility to fight these wrongs whenever you can.

Except I dont..... As a human and a debater im within my rights to not give a sh** about Wylted's debate and simply let it go since its a pointless debate that will soon be erased by time itself.

Simply because something doesn't affect you personally doesn't meany you shouldn't ignore it. You are within your "rights" or whatever. But that doesn't make you right.

Some people simply have a twisted/controversial sense of humor.

I really don't care about whether or not they find some amusement in making rape stories a sport.

Clearly you do since youre trying to call everyone to arms to make a moral crusade against it.

You're right. I am. But I mean I'm not any happier with their gaining amusement from the game.

You can voice your displeasure for the debate sure, but asking everyone else on DDO to not share in Wylteds joke just because he made a joke about something most people don't approve of is overkill,

Why?

Because you dont and never will have the authority to tell people what they are supposed to do or feel towards a topic or debate. If people dont care enough about a controversial topic or already have made it clear that they dont support sexual violence, then they dont have to repeat their stance to everyone when every single opportunity presents itself, and thats exactly what you are requesting people to do.

I don't think it's a question of authority to say making a game about rape, trivializing rape, making a mockery of rape scenarios is pretty bad. This is a debate website.

And you, imabench, claimed you had the authority to make videos saying who you think is "stupid." I don't think you have the ground to tell me I don't have the authority to post criticisms of people and posts.
socialpinko
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9/29/2014 2:55:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:

DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.

I disagree. Why should DDO stand together to discredit support of sexual violence at ANY time and in EVERY way? If someone crudely wants to poke some fun at a very controversial topic, that doesn't warrant DDO taking a grand stand against the topic as if to prove to themselves they are all good people. Imagine that Wylted instead made a debate called 'racism battle' where he would post stories of acts of racism as his arguments, should DDO in your opinion rise up and discredit support of it? What about murders, genocides, tortures, hangings, etc?

Just because someone very crudely pokes fun at something that is universally frowned upon, or wants to exploit the controversial nature of something for some gain, that doesn't mean DDO has to be called to action to discredit it. Some people simply have a twisted/controversial sense of humor. You can voice your displeasure for the debate sure, but asking everyone else on DDO to not share in Wylteds joke just because he made a joke about something most people don't approve of is overkill, especially since Wylted doesn't even condone sexual violence in the first place

*Pokes fun at victims of sexual violence*

*Calls it "controversial"*

*is an assbag*
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
imabench
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9/29/2014 2:56:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 1:37:12 PM, kbub wrote:
At 9/29/2014 12:40:15 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 11:32:08 AM, kbub wrote:
At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:

Is that what rape is to you? A controversial topic?

Did I say thats all it was to me? No. I didnt. Try to stay on topic without going off on a pointless rant

Please don't censor my comments you don't like. Here was what I posted:

I deleted it because it was a gigantic appeal to emotion that was off topic, not because i didnt like it.

Try to not jump to conclusions so damn fast.

The post attacked all of us--all of our dignity as humans, and all of our right to not have our experiences be turned into a sport by Wylted.

Thats a load of horse sh**..... Wylted's debate didnt attack anyone or anything, you only are so offended by it that you feel as if you were attacked, when all wylted did was crudely use the cases of rapes to make a controversial debate.

Yes, it was crude. Yes, he made rape a game. Yes, he made me feel I was attacked. Because I am a human, and I believe in dignity and autonomy.

No, you feel attacked because you have thin skin.

Survivors of sexual violence shouldn't have to fight against their experiences being made a sport--they've fought long and hard already.

Making one debate about it one time doesnt count as 'making it into a sport'....

They literally made a game where you rank your favorite rape. "Rape battle." Yes this was one time (until other people started imitating, and Airmax had to intervene). This one time is bad enough.

My post highlighted that the debate itself is trivial and that youre making a big deal out of something not nearly as bad as youre making it out to be. Your over the top reaction to the debate is spurring other imitations more than the original debate itself.

This is everyone's battle,

No its not. Youre only trying to make it everyones battle when a good chunk of this site couldnt care less about wylted's debate or your outrage against it

Yes, he made me feel I was attacked. Because I am a human, and I believe in dignity and autonomy.

Again, you feel attacked because you have thin skin. Everyone else on here are human and believe in dignity who sincerely don't care about all this drama your making over the debate.

You criticize my "rant" as being unimportant. What is important? Whether Frozen is better than Lion King (your debate)?

*rolls eyes at stupid response* If Wylted actually made the debate with the intent of making fun of someone on this site who actually was sexually harassed, THEN it becomes an important issue because its a deliberate attack against someone else, not an exploitation of past events done for crude humor. Since that didnt happen, the debate itself is controversial but still unimportant, much like your rant against it.

I don't much care what people on the website feel about me as a person. I do, however, want to make DDO more sensitive to important issues and raise activists out of the apathetic.

Newsflash, going on the internet to try to bring out the humanity in people is definitely not going to work out

So everything that you dont like that you find offensive shouldnt be debated in the first place, got it.

You say that I am the one who finds murders and rapes and racism offensive. Don't you?

Putting words in my mouth rather then trying to even stay on topic only makes you look worse kbub, try to at least act respond to the point.

As to whether or not they should be debated--I think we can be clear that this particular game of ranking sexual violence shouldn't have been put forward by Wylted

Saying that debates like these shouldnt be made is reasonable for a number of reasons. Claiming though that everyone on the site should leap on the debate when it does happen just to take a moral stand against something though isnt.

but was excellently debated by YaHey.

LOL. All YaHey had to do was state that its impossible for one rape to be better than another and end it right there, instead he completely blew a very winnable debate with one long and pointless appeal to emotion.

There is no question that people on DDO oppose sexual violence, youre just upset that there isnt more opposition to it.

Well, I have made my stance clear. I'm sure you'll feel free to disagree.

I'll take that as a yes.

You as a human being and an earthling and a debater also have a personal responsibility to fight these wrongs whenever you can.

Except I dont..... As a human and a debater im within my rights to not give a sh** about Wylted's debate and simply let it go since its a pointless debate that will soon be erased by time itself.

Simply because something doesn't affect you personally doesn't mean you shouldn't ignore it. You are within your "rights" or whatever. But that doesn't make you right.

I shouldnt ignore it but thats different then saying i cant ignore it, which is exactly what you are saying to everyone else. You claim that people cant ignore when someone jokes about sexual harassment, when a more rational position to take would be to say that people shouldnt ignore it.

I really don't care about whether or not they find some amusement in making rape stories a sport.

Clearly you do since youre trying to call everyone to arms to make a moral crusade against it.

You're right. I am. But I mean I'm not any happier with their gaining amusement from the game.

Then dont make a big deal out of it like you are doing and bringing it to everyones attention, because then your doing exactly what you dont want them to do, to gain amusement out of the whole ordeal. Thats trolling tactics 101

Because you dont and never will have the authority to tell people what they are supposed to do or feel towards a topic or debate. If people dont care enough about a controversial topic or already have made it clear that they dont support sexual violence, then they dont have to repeat their stance to everyone when every single opportunity presents itself, and thats exactly what you are requesting people to do.

I don't think it's a question of authority to say making a game about rape, trivializing rape, making a mockery of rape scenarios is pretty bad. This is a debate website.

And you, imabench, claimed you had the authority to make videos saying who you think is "stupid." I don't think you have the ground to tell me I don't have the authority to post criticisms of people and posts.

I had the ability to make videos saying who I think is stupid, stupid. Everyone else on here is more than welcome to make videos saying who they think is stupid too, i was just doing it in the most entertaining fashion.

Furthermore, i said you dont have the authority to tell people what they should do or feel about controversial subjects, not that you dont have the authority 'to post criticisms'. After you decide to stop putting words in people's mouths, maybe then you can work on actually reading a persons argument, rather then reading what you wanted them to say so that you can post what you really want to say
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

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imabench
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9/29/2014 3:00:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 2:55:28 PM, socialpinko wrote:

*Pokes fun at victims of sexual violence*

which i didnt do

*Calls it "controversial"*

it certainly is controversial to poke fun at victims of sexual violence

*is an assbag*

the biggest 'assbag' in this thread would be the retard who puts a quote completely out of context into his signature, which would be you.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

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VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
socialpinko
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9/29/2014 3:00:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 11:01:16 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Just to reiterate, in part, my previous response to this same post:

My concern is that "discrediting" support of sexual violence could easily take the form of calling out members who make misogynist comments or insensitive debates. Wylted is one example of this. At that point, "discrediting" the support could morph into harassing the individuals who profess--sincerely or not--to be supporters of it. That would limit freedom of speech.

Conceptually, starting threads to discuss how wrong and cruel sexual violence is, is a great idea, but when it targets specific members or creates a slippery slope to that same end, it isn't.

Why do we now weigh the feelings of people who poke fun at rape over the feelings of people who are hurt *by* poking fun at rape? At that point it just becomes a matter of who's feelings you care about more and it should honestly be quite obvious who should win out. Of course the free speech point, as I see it, really is just a thinly veiled justification for doing just that (valuing the pov of people who make rape jokes over those who are hurt or offended by them) but just the same. People who joke about rape and sexual violence *should* be called out. They *should* be made to feel bad for what they've done. Why are people so quick to think about their weird feelings over someone who has actual cause for concern?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
imabench
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9/29/2014 3:05:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:00:50 PM, socialpinko wrote:

Why do we now weigh the feelings of people who poke fun at rape over the feelings of people who are hurt *by* poking fun at rape?

Because everyone's feelings have the same worth. One is not greater than the other, but kbub believes that the latter are worth more than the former, and others believe that both are the same, even if one is controversial.

Of course the free speech point, as I see it, really is just a thinly veiled justification for doing just that (valuing the pov of people who make rape jokes over those who are hurt or offended by them) but just the same. People who joke about rape and sexual violence *should* be called out. They *should* be made to feel bad for what they've done.

Thats not whats being argued though, kbub is saying that people MUST be called out and that they MUST be made to feel bad about what they did, and by everyone on the site, hence the conflict.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
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socialpinko
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9/29/2014 3:07:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:00:28 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 2:55:28 PM, socialpinko wrote:

*Pokes fun at victims of sexual violence*

which i didnt do

Didn't say you did.

*Calls it "controversial"*

it certainly is controversial to poke fun at victims of sexual violence

Controversial is a word which underscores the harmful effects of such jokes. Like "hey I'm not an insensitive prick I'm just controversial lmao". Same goes for "opposing political correctness", "it's just my opinion", "just playing Devil's advocate" here, and other hallmarks of white dudebro culture.

*is an assbag*

the biggest 'assbag' in this thread would be the retard who puts a quote completely out of context into his signature, which would be you.

(1) Hey, cool use of the word retard there, brotha. Being controversial again I see.
(2) The quote has enough context. It just saves people the time of wading through yer BS explanation. And btw thanks for clarifying that yer referring to me. Wouldn't have guessed.
(3) Yer literally valuing the feelings of Internet asshats over those of people who may actually negatively react to such wanton playfulness about rape. Of course, the profile: "straight, white, male liberal" should have made it clear form the start that yer a dick.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
imabench
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9/29/2014 3:13:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:07:27 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:00:28 PM, imabench wrote:

the biggest 'assbag' in this thread would be the retard who puts a quote completely out of context into his signature, which would be you.

(1) Hey, cool use of the word retard there, brotha. Being controversial again I see.
(2) The quote has enough context.

The quote implies that kbub only thinks that people 'should' discredit support of sexual violence, when what she has actually been advocating for is that people MUST discredit support of sexual violence, and do so whenever they can and however they can. Had you actually been informed about what was going on, then youd understand that your signature is horrendously out of context.

Of course you have a knack for having an opinion on subjects you know nothing about, so I shouldnt be surprised.

(3) Yer literally valuing the feelings of Internet asshats over those of people who may actually negatively react to such wanton playfulness about rape.

Im arguing that they are both of equal value and then one shoulnt be given precedence over the other just because one of them is more controversial than the other, though I imagine that you only claim im valuing one over the other because of some childish and pathetic grudge you have against me

Of course, the profile: "straight, white, male liberal" should have made it clear form the start that yer a dick.

^ ah, perfect, thanks for proving my point
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
socialpinko
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9/29/2014 3:14:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:05:08 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:00:50 PM, socialpinko wrote:

Why do we now weigh the feelings of people who poke fun at rape over the feelings of people who are hurt *by* poking fun at rape?

Because everyone's feelings have the same worth. One is not greater than the other, but kbub believes that the latter are worth more than the former, and others believe that both are the same, even if one is controversial.

Lmao no they fccking don't. If someone says Jews should die, they're feelings upon being called out for it are not equal to the feelings of the people he's threatening. If someone says rape is hilarious, they're feelings upon being called out for it are not equal to the feelings of the people who's experiences or sensibilities he's shiting on. It's not that difficult. It's quite easy for you to merely abstract these things and gloss over the immanent aspect of all because guess what, things like this don't affect you in the least. What affects you is the idea that Internet losers might get their feelings hurt when they say sh'tty things.

Of course the free speech point, as I see it, really is just a thinly veiled justification for doing just that (valuing the pov of people who make rape jokes over those who are hurt or offended by them) but just the same. People who joke about rape and sexual violence *should* be called out. They *should* be made to feel bad for what they've done.

Thats not whats being argued though, kbub is saying that people MUST be called out and that they MUST be made to feel bad about what they did, and by everyone on the site, hence the conflict.

And you, the person who thinks such an idea is inherently ridiculous, clearly don't because "hey, free speech amirite"? Like is it so hard to believe that we shouldn't let people joke about rape when people are clearly hurt and offended by it? Is this site so fraught with pseudo-intellectualism and privileged experience that we can't even get our heads around the idea that rape jokes = not okay?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
ESocialBookworm
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9/29/2014 3:14:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:13:16 PM, imabench wrote:
Of course, the profile: "straight, white, male liberal" should have made it clear form the start that yer a dick.

^ ah, perfect, thanks for proving my point

You're straight?! :O
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
imabench
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9/29/2014 3:20:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:14:12 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:05:08 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:00:50 PM, socialpinko wrote:

Why do we now weigh the feelings of people who poke fun at rape over the feelings of people who are hurt *by* poking fun at rape?

Because everyone's feelings have the same worth. One is not greater than the other, but kbub believes that the latter are worth more than the former, and others believe that both are the same, even if one is controversial.

Lmao no they fccking don't. If someone says Jews should die, they're feelings upon being called out for it are not equal to the feelings of the people he's threatening. If someone says rape is hilarious, they're feelings upon being called out for it are not equal to the feelings of the people who's experiences or sensibilities he's shiting on. It's not that difficult.

Wylted doesnt actually believe that sexual violence is okay though, and hes not advocating for anything as terrible as 'jews should be killed' or 'rape is hilarious'. Anyone with more than 5 functioning brain cells knows that Wylted's rape debate was a crude trolling attempt of a controversial subject, that separates him from the real a**holes out there that you and a lot of other people are mistaking him for.

Is this site so fraught with pseudo-intellectualism and privileged experience that we can't even get our heads around the idea that rape jokes = not okay?

Its not psudeo-intellectualism and privileged experience that cause people to entertain rape jokes idiot, its that people can have a dark sense of humor and can see the funny aspect of truly horrible things. Anyone who has ever laughed at a dead-baby joke knows what im talking about.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
socialpinko
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9/29/2014 3:21:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:13:16 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:07:27 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:00:28 PM, imabench wrote:

the biggest 'assbag' in this thread would be the retard who puts a quote completely out of context into his signature, which would be you.

(1) Hey, cool use of the word retard there, brotha. Being controversial again I see.
(2) The quote has enough context.

The quote implies that kbub only thinks that people 'should' discredit support of sexual violence, when what she has actually been advocating for is that people MUST discredit support of sexual violence, and do so whenever they can and however they can. Had you actually been informed about what was going on, then youd understand that your signature is horrendously out of context.

There's literally no fccking difference. Yer playing around linguistically because, as I pointed out, you lack the immanent pov necessary to actually understand these things.

Of course you have a knack for having an opinion on subjects you know nothing about, so I shouldnt be surprised.

Lmao dude this is hilarious. Literally have no idea where you pulled that from.

(3) Yer literally valuing the feelings of Internet asshats over those of people who may actually negatively react to such wanton playfulness about rape.

Im arguing that they are both of equal value and then one shoulnt be given precedence over the other just because one of them is more controversial than the other, though I imagine that you only claim im valuing one over the other because of some childish and pathetic grudge you have against me

I have grudge against people who personally do sh'tty things to me. What I have towards you is more like a constant sigh at the quasi-informed white liberal dudebro. Yer probably a whatever person, but the way you talk and the opinions that inform yer posts are indicative of a person who's still stuck in his 16 year old "welcome to my twisted mind" phase. But on to what matters here, as I said earlier about yer use of the word 'controversial' (which you didn't respond to), there's more at work than two equal opinions wherein one is simply deemed more controversial than the other. It's two opinions, one of which harms survivors of sexual violence, people closely associated with such acts, people who are actually....what's the word?....empathetic, and so on. The other may or may not damage the ego of some pissbaby who doesn't like being told not to joke about rape. The rule which says to value these opinions equally in reality side with the latter opinion by allowing the behavior to go on unchanged. And that's what people like you are doing here.

Of course, the profile: "straight, white, male liberal" should have made it clear form the start that yer a dick.

^ ah, perfect, thanks for proving my point

To be fair, it's not just you. This site is crawling with 'em.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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9/29/2014 3:21:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:14:50 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:13:16 PM, imabench wrote:
Of course, the profile: "straight, white, male liberal" should have made it clear form the start that yer a dick.

^ ah, perfect, thanks for proving my point

You're straight?! :O

Yes -________-
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
kbub
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9/29/2014 3:22:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:00:50 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 11:01:16 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Just to reiterate, in part, my previous response to this same post:

My concern is that "discrediting" support of sexual violence could easily take the form of calling out members who make misogynist comments or insensitive debates. Wylted is one example of this. At that point, "discrediting" the support could morph into harassing the individuals who profess--sincerely or not--to be supporters of it. That would limit freedom of speech.

Conceptually, starting threads to discuss how wrong and cruel sexual violence is, is a great idea, but when it targets specific members or creates a slippery slope to that same end, it isn't.

Why do we now weigh the feelings of people who poke fun at rape over the feelings of people who are hurt *by* poking fun at rape? At that point it just becomes a matter of who's feelings you care about more and it should honestly be quite obvious who should win out. Of course the free speech point, as I see it, really is just a thinly veiled justification for doing just that (valuing the pov of people who make rape jokes over those who are hurt or offended by them) but just the same. People who joke about rape and sexual violence *should* be called out. They *should* be made to feel bad for what they've done. Why are people so quick to think about their weird feelings over someone who has actual cause for concern?

That's an excellent point.
ESocialBookworm
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9/29/2014 3:22:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:21:31 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:14:50 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:13:16 PM, imabench wrote:
Of course, the profile: "straight, white, male liberal" should have made it clear form the start that yer a dick.

^ ah, perfect, thanks for proving my point

You're straight?! :O

Yes -________-

You're not bi?

... #YOLO #Learn-something-new-everyday
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
socialpinko
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9/29/2014 3:24:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:20:58 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:14:12 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:05:08 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:00:50 PM, socialpinko wrote:

Why do we now weigh the feelings of people who poke fun at rape over the feelings of people who are hurt *by* poking fun at rape?

Because everyone's feelings have the same worth. One is not greater than the other, but kbub believes that the latter are worth more than the former, and others believe that both are the same, even if one is controversial.

Lmao no they fccking don't. If someone says Jews should die, they're feelings upon being called out for it are not equal to the feelings of the people he's threatening. If someone says rape is hilarious, they're feelings upon being called out for it are not equal to the feelings of the people who's experiences or sensibilities he's shiting on. It's not that difficult.

Wylted doesnt actually believe that sexual violence is okay though, and hes not advocating for anything as terrible as 'jews should be killed' or 'rape is hilarious'. Anyone with more than 5 functioning brain cells knows that Wylted's rape debate was a crude trolling attempt of a controversial subject, that separates him from the real a**holes out there that you and a lot of other people are mistaking him for.

Interesting, still referring to it as 'controversial'. Whatevs. More to the point, didn't say he was advocating for rape. What he's doing is going about it in a wanton way which makes rape into something funny to be joked about which, in turn, contributes to a growing normalization of such patterns. Not to mention the fact that he's still harming the aforementioned groups I mentioned in my last post.

Is this site so fraught with pseudo-intellectualism and privileged experience that we can't even get our heads around the idea that rape jokes = not okay?

Its not psudeo-intellectualism and privileged experience that cause people to entertain rape jokes idiot, its that people can have a dark sense of humor and can see the funny aspect of truly horrible things (while crudely ignoring the emotional toll this can have on other people). Anyone who has ever laughed at a dead-baby joke knows what im talking about.

Fix'd.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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9/29/2014 3:27:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:21:27 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:13:16 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:07:27 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:00:28 PM, imabench wrote:

the biggest 'assbag' in this thread would be the retard who puts a quote completely out of context into his signature, which would be you.

(1) Hey, cool use of the word retard there, brotha. Being controversial again I see.
(2) The quote has enough context.

The quote implies that kbub only thinks that people 'should' discredit support of sexual violence, when what she has actually been advocating for is that people MUST discredit support of sexual violence, and do so whenever they can and however they can. Had you actually been informed about what was going on, then youd understand that your signature is horrendously out of context.

There's literally no fccking difference.

Theres a BIG difference between saying people should do something and that everyone must do something. Its a very simple concept to wrap your head around.

(3) Yer literally valuing the feelings of Internet asshats over those of people who may actually negatively react to such wanton playfulness about rape.

Im arguing that they are both of equal value and then one shoulnt be given precedence over the other just because one of them is more controversial than the other, though I imagine that you only claim im valuing one over the other because of some childish and pathetic grudge you have against me

I have grudge against people who personally do sh'tty things to me. What I have towards you is more like a constant sigh at the quasi-informed white liberal dudebro.

So, butthurt. Got it

Yer probably a whatever person

Ding

but the way you talk and the opinions that inform yer posts are indicative of a person who's still stuck in his 16 year old "welcome to my twisted mind" phase.

that still doesnt discredit any arguments i actually make....

But on to what matters here, as I said earlier about yer use of the word 'controversial' (which you didn't respond to), there's more at work than two equal opinions wherein one is simply deemed more controversial than the other. It's two opinions, one of which harms survivors of sexual violence, people closely associated with such acts, people who are actually empathetic, and so on.

But there is a moral difference in intentionally saying something to harm survivors of sexual violence and just exploiting the horribleness of it for shock value.

The rule which says to value these opinions equally in reality side with the latter opinion by allowing the behavior to go on unchanged. And that's what people like you are doing here.

People are more than welcome to give Wylted some sh** for making the debate, im just advocating that not everybody must give wylted, and every other person who jokes about it every time and in every way, which is what kbub is calling for

Of course, the profile: "straight, white, male liberal" should have made it clear form the start that yer a dick.

^ ah, perfect, thanks for proving my point

To be fair, it's not just you. This site is crawling with 'em.

Sounds more like your problem then mine
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
imabench
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9/29/2014 3:30:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:24:31 PM, socialpinko wrote:

I didn't say he was advocating for rape. What he's doing is going about it in a wanton way which makes rape into something funny to be joked about which, in turn, contributes to a growing normalization of such patterns.

Let me say this once and for all so you can get it through your thick (empty) skull

Im not saying that what wylted do shouldnt be protested, im only saying that the extreme idea that everyone should always protest it whenever and however they can is a bad idea

Its not psudeo-intellectualism and privileged experience that cause people to entertain rape jokes idiot, its that people can have a dark sense of humor and can see the funny aspect of truly horrible things (while crudely ignoring the emotional toll this can have on other people). Anyone who has ever laughed at a dead-baby joke knows what im talking about.

Fix'd.

So you concede that its not psudeo-intlelectualism and priveleged experience. Good to know
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
socialpinko
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9/29/2014 3:33:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:27:42 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:21:27 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:13:16 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:07:27 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:00:28 PM, imabench wrote:

the biggest 'assbag' in this thread would be the retard who puts a quote completely out of context into his signature, which would be you.

(1) Hey, cool use of the word retard there, brotha. Being controversial again I see.
(2) The quote has enough context.

The quote implies that kbub only thinks that people 'should' discredit support of sexual violence, when what she has actually been advocating for is that people MUST discredit support of sexual violence, and do so whenever they can and however they can. Had you actually been informed about what was going on, then youd understand that your signature is horrendously out of context.

There's literally no fccking difference.

Theres a BIG difference between saying people should do something and that everyone must do something. Its a very simple concept to wrap your head around.

Omg I'm hurting my head remembering that I used to make posts like this :(

(3) Yer literally valuing the feelings of Internet asshats over those of people who may actually negatively react to such wanton playfulness about rape.

Im arguing that they are both of equal value and then one shoulnt be given precedence over the other just because one of them is more controversial than the other, though I imagine that you only claim im valuing one over the other because of some childish and pathetic grudge you have against me

I have grudge against people who personally do sh'tty things to me. What I have towards you is more like a constant sigh at the quasi-informed white liberal dudebro.

So, butthurt. Got it

Yer probably a whatever person

Ding

but the way you talk and the opinions that inform yer posts are indicative of a person who's still stuck in his 16 year old "welcome to my twisted mind" phase.

that still doesnt discredit any arguments i actually make....

Wasn't using it to. Yer the one who brought up the idea of a hypothetical grudge. I was just responding to that point before I continued on.

But on to what matters here, as I said earlier about yer use of the word 'controversial' (which you didn't respond to), there's more at work than two equal opinions wherein one is simply deemed more controversial than the other. It's two opinions, one of which harms survivors of sexual violence, people closely associated with such acts, people who are actually empathetic, and so on.

But there is a moral difference in intentionally saying something to harm survivors of sexual violence and just exploiting the horribleness of it for shock value.

Unless they *gasp* converge lol.

The rule which says to value these opinions equally in reality side with the latter opinion by allowing the behavior to go on unchanged. And that's what people like you are doing here.

People are more than welcome to give Wylted some sh** for making the debate, im just advocating that not everybody must give wylted, and every other person who jokes about it every time and in every way, which is what kbub is calling for

Omg I'm so embarrassed for my past liberal self.

Of course, the profile: "straight, white, male liberal" should have made it clear form the start that yer a dick.

^ ah, perfect, thanks for proving my point

To be fair, it's not just you. This site is crawling with 'em.

Sounds more like your problem then mine

Yer telling me. I'm the one that has to deal with the lot of ya. I thought you left this site for good.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/29/2014 3:37:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:30:43 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:24:31 PM, socialpinko wrote:

I didn't say he was advocating for rape. What he's doing is going about it in a wanton way which makes rape into something funny to be joked about which, in turn, contributes to a growing normalization of such patterns.

Let me say this once and for all so you can get it through your thick (empty) skull

Im not saying that what wylted do shouldnt be protested, im only saying that the extreme idea that everyone should always protest it whenever and however they can is a bad idea

So we're gonna jump from you literally saying that all these opinions are the same (thus equating what he did with the response that was invoked) to a big arse backtrack to a minute linguistic correction? Ok to be sure is that how we're doing this?

Its not psudeo-intellectualism and privileged experience that cause people to entertain rape jokes idiot, its that people can have a dark sense of humor and can see the funny aspect of truly horrible things (while crudely ignoring the emotional toll this can have on other people). Anyone who has ever laughed at a dead-baby joke knows what im talking about.

Fix'd.

So you concede that its not psudeo-intlelectualism and priveleged experience. Good to know

Nah. Just wanted to add in the consequence of yer position. Glad to know that you care more to respond to the point that yer NOT a pseudo-intellectual than to the fact that what you were defending literally damages people on this site for no reason than yer sh'tty sense of humor. Glad we got our priorities straight.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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9/29/2014 3:46:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'll just go ahead and delete the chunks of the argument where you conceded the point and failed to offer any rational counter argument by being a complete idiot (unfortunately that eliminated over half of the discussion)

At 9/29/2014 3:33:11 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:27:42 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:21:27 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:13:16 PM, imabench wrote:

But on to what matters here, as I said earlier about yer use of the word 'controversial' (which you didn't respond to), there's more at work than two equal opinions wherein one is simply deemed more controversial than the other. It's two opinions, one of which harms survivors of sexual violence, people closely associated with such acts, people who are actually empathetic, and so on.

But there is a moral difference in intentionally saying something to harm survivors of sexual violence and just exploiting the horribleness of it for shock value.

Unless they *gasp* converge

Go ahead and point out where Wylted stated he deliberately and intentionally wanted to make the debate to harm survivors of sexual violence, otherwise youre just talking out of your a** (as usual)

I thought you left this site for good.

Im only back temporarily to debate something with birdlandmemories, then im out again
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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9/29/2014 3:49:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:37:15 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:30:43 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:24:31 PM, socialpinko wrote:

I didn't say he was advocating for rape. What he's doing is going about it in a wanton way which makes rape into something funny to be joked about which, in turn, contributes to a growing normalization of such patterns.

Let me say this once and for all so you can get it through your thick (empty) skull

Im not saying that what wylted do shouldnt be protested, im only saying that the extreme idea that everyone should always protest it whenever and however they can is a bad idea

So we're gonna jump from you literally saying that all these opinions are the same (thus equating what he did with the response that was invoked) to a big arse backtrack to a minute linguistic correction? Ok to be sure is that how we're doing this?

im not backtracking, im bringing you up to speed since you have your head too far up your a** to know what the conflict really is here.

Its not psudeo-intellectualism and privileged experience that cause people to entertain rape jokes idiot, its that people can have a dark sense of humor and can see the funny aspect of truly horrible things (while crudely ignoring the emotional toll this can have on other people). Anyone who has ever laughed at a dead-baby joke knows what im talking about.

Fix'd.

So you concede that its not psudeo-intlelectualism and priveleged experience. Good to know

Nah. Just wanted to add in the consequence of yer position.

Thats still conceding the original point idiot.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/29/2014 3:54:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:46:35 PM, imabench wrote:
I'll just go ahead and delete the chunks of the argument where you conceded the point and failed to offer any rational counter argument by being a complete idiot (unfortunately that eliminated over half of the discussion)

At 9/29/2014 3:33:11 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:27:42 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:21:27 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:13:16 PM, imabench wrote:

But on to what matters here, as I said earlier about yer use of the word 'controversial' (which you didn't respond to), there's more at work than two equal opinions wherein one is simply deemed more controversial than the other. It's two opinions, one of which harms survivors of sexual violence, people closely associated with such acts, people who are actually empathetic, and so on.

But there is a moral difference in intentionally saying something to harm survivors of sexual violence and just exploiting the horribleness of it for shock value.

Unless they *gasp* converge

Go ahead and point out where Wylted stated he deliberately and intentionally wanted to make the debate to harm survivors of sexual violence, otherwise youre just talking out of your a** (as usual)

Ugh I hate watering things down for you. Swear to god you and Mouthwash are multis. They converge in that the *intention* of the speaker results in the *effects* felt by the survivor.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/29/2014 3:56:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:49:03 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:37:15 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:30:43 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:24:31 PM, socialpinko wrote:

I didn't say he was advocating for rape. What he's doing is going about it in a wanton way which makes rape into something funny to be joked about which, in turn, contributes to a growing normalization of such patterns.

Let me say this once and for all so you can get it through your thick (empty) skull

Im not saying that what wylted do shouldnt be protested, im only saying that the extreme idea that everyone should always protest it whenever and however they can is a bad idea

So we're gonna jump from you literally saying that all these opinions are the same (thus equating what he did with the response that was invoked) to a big arse backtrack to a minute linguistic correction? Ok to be sure is that how we're doing this?

im not backtracking, im bringing you up to speed since you have your head too far up your a** to know what the conflict really is here.

sorry I must be an idiot. You didn't make the points I mentioned above?

Its not psudeo-intellectualism and privileged experience that cause people to entertain rape jokes idiot, its that people can have a dark sense of humor and can see the funny aspect of truly horrible things (while crudely ignoring the emotional toll this can have on other people). Anyone who has ever laughed at a dead-baby joke knows what im talking about.

Fix'd.

So you concede that its not psudeo-intlelectualism and priveleged experience. Good to know

Nah. Just wanted to add in the consequence of yer position.

Thats still conceding the original point idiot.

Again with the ableist language. At least yer consistent. So me not conceding yer point and then also adding in another point about the horrid consequences of the things yer supporting equates to me conceding the point? Also, still haven't responded to the point, again showing that you care more about racking up points than considering that words might actually have harmful affects.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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9/29/2014 4:08:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2014 3:56:45 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:49:03 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:37:15 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:30:43 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/29/2014 3:24:31 PM, socialpinko wrote:

I didn't say he was advocating for rape. What he's doing is going about it in a wanton way which makes rape into something funny to be joked about which, in turn, contributes to a growing normalization of such patterns.

Let me say this once and for all so you can get it through your thick (empty) skull

Im not saying that what wylted do shouldnt be protested, im only saying that the extreme idea that everyone should always protest it whenever and however they can is a bad idea

So we're gonna jump from you literally saying that all these opinions are the same (thus equating what he did with the response that was invoked) to a big arse backtrack to a minute linguistic correction? Ok to be sure is that how we're doing this?

im not backtracking, im bringing you up to speed since you have your head too far up your a** to know what the conflict really is here.

sorry I must be an idiot.

Admitting it is the first step

You didn't make the points I mentioned above?

Youve completely butchered what my points were so go ahead and carefully post all the points you think ive made, then i'll go ahead and clarify them to you so that you finally understand what the conversation is about :)

So me not conceding yer point and then also adding in another point about the horrid consequences of the things yer supporting equates to me conceding the point?

Adding another point about the 'consequences' of having a dark sense of humor while not offering any other protest to the claim that people make rape jokes because they have a dark sense of humor indeed signifies that you conceded the point.

I forgot that stupid people dont realize when theyve dropped a point, so youre forgiven.

Also, still haven't responded to the point, again showing that you care more about racking up points than considering that words might actually have harmful affects.

You didnt make a point though.... I know you think you did but all you did was run away from the argument.

All you did was highlight the negative effects of having a dark sense of humor. You conceded your claim that people tolerate things like the rape battle debate because of pseudo-intellectualism and privileged experience because rather then defend your own claim that those things are why people joke about rape, you instead moved to criticizing dark senses of humor rather then deny that dark senses of humor are the real reason why people occasionally joke about very controversial subjects.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015