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Just a voting tip

iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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10/4/2014 11:14:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have noticed on some debates recently that I have voted on, that there has been a lot of vote rage. So I thought I would share a tip on voting that I pay very strict attention too.

I never read the comments section or votes section of a debate when it goes into the voting stage.

Firstly, I don't want to read another persons decision and be swayed by it.

Secondly, the debate is over. Anything that the debaters discuss at this point is irrelevant. Even if they clear something up and agree upon something (i.e someone conceded in the comments) they did not do this is the debate and should not be judged upon. Like point one I don't want my decision swayed.

Also, I think YYW has the best approach to comments on a persons vote. He does not discuss a person's vote until after the voting is closed. After all we should not be trying to influence people.

Anyway just my two cents worth.

Use it, don't use it.
debatability
Posts: 1,160
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10/4/2014 11:51:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 11:14:05 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
I have noticed on some debates recently that I have voted on, that there has been a lot of vote rage. So I thought I would share a tip on voting that I pay very strict attention too.

I never read the comments section or votes section of a debate when it goes into the voting stage.

Firstly, I don't want to read another persons decision and be swayed by it.

Secondly, the debate is over. Anything that the debaters discuss at this point is irrelevant. Even if they clear something up and agree upon something (i.e someone conceded in the comments) they did not do this is the debate and should not be judged upon. Like point one I don't want my decision swayed.

Also, I think YYW has the best approach to comments on a persons vote. He does not discuss a person's vote until after the voting is closed. After all we should not be trying to influence people.

Anyway just my two cents worth.

Use it, don't use it.

i agree with this. i find that when i read votes and comments before i read the actual debate, i look at the debate through a highly biased perspective. i will even go so far as to try ignore who is winning the debate.
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,027
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10/5/2014 1:57:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 11:14:05 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
I have noticed on some debates recently that I have voted on, that there has been a lot of vote rage. So I thought I would share a tip on voting that I pay very strict attention too.

I never read the comments section or votes section of a debate when it goes into the voting stage.

I always save reading the other RFD's until my own is in. I do read the comments though, but I never give weight to comments and immediately skip the ones that are RFD's. I love the entertainment of comment section rage, but never allow it to influence my own vote.

Firstly, I don't want to read another persons decision and be swayed by it.

Same, and it's actually pretty easy to get swayed by such things, which makes it all the more important to save them until after you've placed your own vote.

I'm a proponent of keeping RFD's blocked from public view until after the voting period is over. Unfortunately there are still too many variables in that proposal for even me to feel comfortable with. I just think there might be something in it, if we can work out all the loopholes and ways that people would get around it.

Secondly, the debate is over. Anything that the debaters discuss at this point is irrelevant. Even if they clear something up and agree upon something (i.e someone conceded in the comments) they did not do this is the debate and should not be judged upon. Like point one I don't want my decision swayed.

Agreed.

Also, I think YYW has the best approach to comments on a persons vote. He does not discuss a person's vote until after the voting is closed. After all we should not be trying to influence people.

His critiques of votes are always informative.

Anyway just my two cents worth.

Use it, don't use it.

Thanks for sharing, this is a solid opinion that is worth being heard.
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thett3
Posts: 14,344
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10/5/2014 10:08:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
You have no business telling anyone else how to vote
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Raisor
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10/5/2014 10:17:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 10:08:04 AM, thett3 wrote:
You have no business telling anyone else how to vote

Discussing how best to approach judging is perfectly warranted. It's totally appropriate for OP to make the argument that judges shouldn't take into account anything outside the debate. I don't agree 100% but it is worth discussing.
thett3
Posts: 14,344
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10/5/2014 12:07:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 10:17:20 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:08:04 AM, thett3 wrote:
You have no business telling anyone else how to vote

Discussing how best to approach judging is perfectly warranted. It's totally appropriate for OP to make the argument that judges shouldn't take into account anything outside the debate. I don't agree 100% but it is worth discussing.

You're right, Raisor. I was just angry at a vote he made.

To the OP, I apologize for my comment but I *do* think you should reconsider some of your voting paradigms...your vote on the military draft debate was, in my opinion, grossly unfair.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Raisor
Posts: 4,460
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10/5/2014 12:56:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 12:07:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:17:20 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:08:04 AM, thett3 wrote:
You have no business telling anyone else how to vote

Discussing how best to approach judging is perfectly warranted. It's totally appropriate for OP to make the argument that judges shouldn't take into account anything outside the debate. I don't agree 100% but it is worth discussing.

You're right, Raisor. I was just angry at a vote he made.

To the OP, I apologize for my comment but I *do* think you should reconsider some of your voting paradigms...your vote on the military draft debate was, in my opinion, grossly unfair.

What was unfair about it?
thett3
Posts: 14,344
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10/5/2014 1:08:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 12:56:08 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 12:07:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:17:20 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:08:04 AM, thett3 wrote:
You have no business telling anyone else how to vote

Discussing how best to approach judging is perfectly warranted. It's totally appropriate for OP to make the argument that judges shouldn't take into account anything outside the debate. I don't agree 100% but it is worth discussing.

You're right, Raisor. I was just angry at a vote he made.

To the OP, I apologize for my comment but I *do* think you should reconsider some of your voting paradigms...your vote on the military draft debate was, in my opinion, grossly unfair.

What was unfair about it?

So, the debate was about a military draft being abolished. Pro argues that an all volunteer force is better/more effective. The OP voted Pro down and completely dismissed the argument about a volunteer force being more effective calling it irrelevant even though there's absolutely no way that argument is irrelevant to the resolution and even if it was Con didn't make that argument.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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10/6/2014 4:54:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 1:08:21 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 12:56:08 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 12:07:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:17:20 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:08:04 AM, thett3 wrote:
You have no business telling anyone else how to vote

Discussing how best to approach judging is perfectly warranted. It's totally appropriate for OP to make the argument that judges shouldn't take into account anything outside the debate. I don't agree 100% but it is worth discussing.

You're right, Raisor. I was just angry at a vote he made.

To the OP, I apologize for my comment but I *do* think you should reconsider some of your voting paradigms...your vote on the military draft debate was, in my opinion, grossly unfair.

What was unfair about it?

So, the debate was about a military draft being abolished. Pro argues that an all volunteer force is better/more effective. The OP voted Pro down and completely dismissed the argument about a volunteer force being more effective calling it irrelevant even though there's absolutely no way that argument is irrelevant to the resolution and even if it was Con didn't make that argument.

Thanks for the input.

I considered and still do consider it irrelevant as it has to do with the draft. It usually means that you need to enlist as rapidly as possible for reasons where you cannot get numbers. So while volunteer may be more effective, none is not effective at all.
thett3
Posts: 14,344
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10/6/2014 8:23:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 4:54:50 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 10/5/2014 1:08:21 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 12:56:08 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 12:07:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:17:20 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:08:04 AM, thett3 wrote:
You have no business telling anyone else how to vote

Discussing how best to approach judging is perfectly warranted. It's totally appropriate for OP to make the argument that judges shouldn't take into account anything outside the debate. I don't agree 100% but it is worth discussing.

You're right, Raisor. I was just angry at a vote he made.

To the OP, I apologize for my comment but I *do* think you should reconsider some of your voting paradigms...your vote on the military draft debate was, in my opinion, grossly unfair.

What was unfair about it?

So, the debate was about a military draft being abolished. Pro argues that an all volunteer force is better/more effective. The OP voted Pro down and completely dismissed the argument about a volunteer force being more effective calling it irrelevant even though there's absolutely no way that argument is irrelevant to the resolution and even if it was Con didn't make that argument.

Thanks for the input.

I considered and still do consider it irrelevant as it has to do with the draft. It usually means that you need to enlist as rapidly as possible for reasons where you cannot get numbers. So while volunteer may be more effective, none is not effective at all.

So, by making an argument against the point when you say that a volunteer force doesn't allow for quick recruiting, you are acknowledging that it is indeed relevant. That was the most ridiculous part of your RFD because there is nothing more relevant than analyzing the alternative. Lannans response to the point was terrible, but you didn't even buy it. You made an argument for Lannan and threw out Pros alternative because you deemed it irrelevant for reasons I still don't understand. And your vote decided the debate.

If you can't see how that's problematic, don't bother responding
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
Posts: 14,344
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10/6/2014 8:27:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's difficult to see how Pro could POSSIBLY win the debate if you deny him the ability to show any system other than conscription. Under the burden you assigned all Lannan has to do is show that having a military is good because you aren't allowing Pro to argue for another way. That's absurd.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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10/6/2014 8:14:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 8:23:22 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/6/2014 4:54:50 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 10/5/2014 1:08:21 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 12:56:08 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 12:07:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:17:20 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:08:04 AM, thett3 wrote:
You have no business telling anyone else how to vote

Discussing how best to approach judging is perfectly warranted. It's totally appropriate for OP to make the argument that judges shouldn't take into account anything outside the debate. I don't agree 100% but it is worth discussing.

You're right, Raisor. I was just angry at a vote he made.

To the OP, I apologize for my comment but I *do* think you should reconsider some of your voting paradigms...your vote on the military draft debate was, in my opinion, grossly unfair.

What was unfair about it?

So, the debate was about a military draft being abolished. Pro argues that an all volunteer force is better/more effective. The OP voted Pro down and completely dismissed the argument about a volunteer force being more effective calling it irrelevant even though there's absolutely no way that argument is irrelevant to the resolution and even if it was Con didn't make that argument.

Thanks for the input.

I considered and still do consider it irrelevant as it has to do with the draft. It usually means that you need to enlist as rapidly as possible for reasons where you cannot get numbers. So while volunteer may be more effective, none is not effective at all.

So, by making an argument against the point when you say that a volunteer force doesn't allow for quick recruiting, you are acknowledging that it is indeed relevant. That was the most ridiculous part of your RFD because there is nothing more relevant than analyzing the alternative. Lannans response to the point was terrible, but you didn't even buy it. You made an argument for Lannan and threw out Pros alternative because you deemed it irrelevant for reasons I still don't understand. And your vote decided the debate.

If you can't see how that's problematic, don't bother responding

I will point out that at that point (where I mentioned its irrelevant), the debate was going against Pro anyway.

The point is seriously, that the draft is because there is not enough volunteers. This is why the draft is employed. This is self explanatory. I didn't make an argument for Con, I just followed what the definition of a draft is "compulsory recruitment" which would not be necessary if their was enough volunteers. I don't really know how to explain this otherwise.

If my understanding of the meaning of the Draft is wrong, it would not have swayed my vote as. At this point in my RFD even if I would have given volunteers to Pro, I would have had to give another deemed irrelevant point (equality) to Con. Which gives the same result.

So yes, my vote swung the win in Cons favor. Very well aware of that.
thett3
Posts: 14,344
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10/6/2014 8:19:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 8:14:48 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 10/6/2014 8:23:22 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/6/2014 4:54:50 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 10/5/2014 1:08:21 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 12:56:08 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 12:07:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:17:20 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:08:04 AM, thett3 wrote:
You have no business telling anyone else how to vote

Discussing how best to approach judging is perfectly warranted. It's totally appropriate for OP to make the argument that judges shouldn't take into account anything outside the debate. I don't agree 100% but it is worth discussing.

You're right, Raisor. I was just angry at a vote he made.

To the OP, I apologize for my comment but I *do* think you should reconsider some of your voting paradigms...your vote on the military draft debate was, in my opinion, grossly unfair.

What was unfair about it?

So, the debate was about a military draft being abolished. Pro argues that an all volunteer force is better/more effective. The OP voted Pro down and completely dismissed the argument about a volunteer force being more effective calling it irrelevant even though there's absolutely no way that argument is irrelevant to the resolution and even if it was Con didn't make that argument.

Thanks for the input.

I considered and still do consider it irrelevant as it has to do with the draft. It usually means that you need to enlist as rapidly as possible for reasons where you cannot get numbers. So while volunteer may be more effective, none is not effective at all.

So, by making an argument against the point when you say that a volunteer force doesn't allow for quick recruiting, you are acknowledging that it is indeed relevant. That was the most ridiculous part of your RFD because there is nothing more relevant than analyzing the alternative. Lannans response to the point was terrible, but you didn't even buy it. You made an argument for Lannan and threw out Pros alternative because you deemed it irrelevant for reasons I still don't understand. And your vote decided the debate.

If you can't see how that's problematic, don't bother responding

I will point out that at that point (where I mentioned its irrelevant), the debate was going against Pro anyway.

The point is seriously, that the draft is because there is not enough volunteers. This is why the draft is employed. This is self explanatory. I didn't make an argument for Con, I just followed what the definition of a draft is "compulsory recruitment" which would not be necessary if their was enough volunteers. I don't really know how to explain this otherwise.

wtf? No, that doesn't follow. If there are enough volunteers than there is NO NEED to have a draft. That was Madara's entire point.


If my understanding of the meaning of the Draft is wrong, it would not have swayed my vote as. At this point in my RFD even if I would have given volunteers to Pro, I would have had to give another deemed irrelevant point (equality) to Con. Which gives the same result.

So yes, my vote swung the win in Cons favor. Very well aware of that.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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10/6/2014 8:59:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/6/2014 8:19:19 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/6/2014 8:14:48 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 10/6/2014 8:23:22 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/6/2014 4:54:50 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 10/5/2014 1:08:21 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 12:56:08 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 12:07:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:17:20 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 10/5/2014 10:08:04 AM, thett3 wrote:
You have no business telling anyone else how to vote

Discussing how best to approach judging is perfectly warranted. It's totally appropriate for OP to make the argument that judges shouldn't take into account anything outside the debate. I don't agree 100% but it is worth discussing.

You're right, Raisor. I was just angry at a vote he made.

To the OP, I apologize for my comment but I *do* think you should reconsider some of your voting paradigms...your vote on the military draft debate was, in my opinion, grossly unfair.

What was unfair about it?

So, the debate was about a military draft being abolished. Pro argues that an all volunteer force is better/more effective. The OP voted Pro down and completely dismissed the argument about a volunteer force being more effective calling it irrelevant even though there's absolutely no way that argument is irrelevant to the resolution and even if it was Con didn't make that argument.

Thanks for the input.

I considered and still do consider it irrelevant as it has to do with the draft. It usually means that you need to enlist as rapidly as possible for reasons where you cannot get numbers. So while volunteer may be more effective, none is not effective at all.

So, by making an argument against the point when you say that a volunteer force doesn't allow for quick recruiting, you are acknowledging that it is indeed relevant. That was the most ridiculous part of your RFD because there is nothing more relevant than analyzing the alternative. Lannans response to the point was terrible, but you didn't even buy it. You made an argument for Lannan and threw out Pros alternative because you deemed it irrelevant for reasons I still don't understand. And your vote decided the debate.

If you can't see how that's problematic, don't bother responding

I will point out that at that point (where I mentioned its irrelevant), the debate was going against Pro anyway.

The point is seriously, that the draft is because there is not enough volunteers. This is why the draft is employed. This is self explanatory. I didn't make an argument for Con, I just followed what the definition of a draft is "compulsory recruitment" which would not be necessary if their was enough volunteers. I don't really know how to explain this otherwise.

wtf? No, that doesn't follow. If there are enough volunteers than there is NO NEED to have a draft. That was Madara's entire point.

Yes, if there were enough volunteers. But clearly there are not hence the draft in the first place.



If my understanding of the meaning of the Draft is wrong, it would not have swayed my vote as. At this point in my RFD even if I would have given volunteers to Pro, I would have had to give another deemed irrelevant point (equality) to Con. Which gives the same result.

So yes, my vote swung the win in Cons favor. Very well aware of that.