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Congratulations to our newest HoFers

1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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10/12/2014 12:34:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
*Claps*
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
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10/12/2014 12:55:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Congrats Gentlemen!!
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
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bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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10/12/2014 12:55:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 12:28:38 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
Congrats to Kleptin, Bladerunner, Mikal and Bsh1.

http://www.debate.org...

Congrats guys. All well-deserved.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Ajabi
Posts: 1,504
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10/12/2014 1:07:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 12:55:53 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 10/12/2014 12:28:38 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
Congrats to Kleptin, Bladerunner, Mikal and Bsh1.

http://www.debate.org...

Congrats guys. All well-deserved.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/12/2014 1:32:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

HOF is about contributions to the site, not necessarily debating prowess. The leaderboard, while imperfect, is designed to measure debating skill. The HOF is meant to spotlight those members who have contributed a lot to the site. For example, a user named GodChoosesLife received a considerable number of votes last HOF election because of her kindness and generosity, and willingness to reach out to members in need, despite the fact that she had a low ELO score.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


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Blade-of-Truth
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10/12/2014 1:33:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

The two really aren't comparable. One reflects a debaters ability and overall record, the other reflects outstanding members who have earned a lasting spot in DDO history.
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vwv
Posts: 666
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10/12/2014 1:48:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 1:32:56 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

HOF is about contributions to the site, not necessarily debating prowess. The leaderboard, while imperfect, is designed to measure debating skill. The HOF is meant to spotlight those members who have contributed a lot to the site. For example, a user named GodChoosesLife received a considerable number of votes last HOF election because of her kindness and generosity, and willingness to reach out to members in need, despite the fact that she had a low ELO score.

No offense but I don't see how that is fair.

What if someone really works hard at debating but isn't the most socially adept individual.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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10/12/2014 1:59:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 1:48:55 AM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:32:56 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

HOF is about contributions to the site, not necessarily debating prowess. The leaderboard, while imperfect, is designed to measure debating skill. The HOF is meant to spotlight those members who have contributed a lot to the site. For example, a user named GodChoosesLife received a considerable number of votes last HOF election because of her kindness and generosity, and willingness to reach out to members in need, despite the fact that she had a low ELO score.

No offense but I don't see how that is fair.

What if someone really works hard at debating but isn't the most socially adept individual.

Then they can still be voted in for being an outstanding debater.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Mikal
Posts: 11,269
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10/12/2014 2:14:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 1:48:55 AM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:32:56 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

HOF is about contributions to the site, not necessarily debating prowess. The leaderboard, while imperfect, is designed to measure debating skill. The HOF is meant to spotlight those members who have contributed a lot to the site. For example, a user named GodChoosesLife received a considerable number of votes last HOF election because of her kindness and generosity, and willingness to reach out to members in need, despite the fact that she had a low ELO score.

No offense but I don't see how that is fair.

What if someone really works hard at debating but isn't the most socially adept individual.

It's a community perspective on members that have made outstanding impressions throughout the history of DDO. It can be for debating, things they have done for the community, and just in general their contributions and hard work. Anything from starting tournaments , having a positive attitude , or being an impeccable debater can earn you a spot.

I have no idea why im in there
UchihaMadara
Posts: 1,049
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10/12/2014 9:54:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 1:59:52 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:48:55 AM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:32:56 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

HOF is about contributions to the site, not necessarily debating prowess. The leaderboard, while imperfect, is designed to measure debating skill. The HOF is meant to spotlight those members who have contributed a lot to the site. For example, a user named GodChoosesLife received a considerable number of votes last HOF election because of her kindness and generosity, and willingness to reach out to members in need, despite the fact that she had a low ELO score.

No offense but I don't see how that is fair.

What if someone really works hard at debating but isn't the most socially adept individual.

Then they can still be voted in for being an outstanding debater.

*cough* RoyLatham *cough*
Linkish1O2
Posts: 2,003
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10/12/2014 11:57:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 11:56:32 AM, YYW wrote:
Congrats to everyone who made it in!

You know I posted a pic of you and you missed it.

On the other hand congratz
"I am a mystery and to unlock the mystery at my core, one must simply embrace slendermans hug with no fear."- me

"I hearby declare myself a phantom in the darkness."-me
YYW
Posts: 36,243
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10/12/2014 12:00:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 11:57:20 AM, Linkish1O2 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 11:56:32 AM, YYW wrote:
Congrats to everyone who made it in!

You know I posted a pic of you and you missed it.

?

On the other hand congratz

lol, I was already in the HOF....
Linkish1O2
Posts: 2,003
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10/12/2014 12:44:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 12:00:45 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/12/2014 11:57:20 AM, Linkish1O2 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 11:56:32 AM, YYW wrote:
Congrats to everyone who made it in!

You know I posted a pic of you and you missed it.

?

On the other hand congratz

lol, I was already in the HOF....

- :p
"I am a mystery and to unlock the mystery at my core, one must simply embrace slendermans hug with no fear."- me

"I hearby declare myself a phantom in the darkness."-me
debatability
Posts: 1,160
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10/12/2014 1:14:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

well really the leaderboard isn't worth much to begin with. we have people like STALIN who just snipe noobs and yet somehow have gained 5,000 elo... significantly more elo than genuinely good debaters.
vwv
Posts: 666
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10/12/2014 1:38:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 1:14:50 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

well really the leaderboard isn't worth much to begin with. we have people like STALIN who just snipe noobs and yet somehow have gained 5,000 elo... significantly more elo than genuinely good debaters.

How exactly do you distinguish the genuinely good from the fakers?
debatability
Posts: 1,160
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10/12/2014 1:40:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 1:38:27 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:14:50 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

well really the leaderboard isn't worth much to begin with. we have people like STALIN who just snipe noobs and yet somehow have gained 5,000 elo... significantly more elo than genuinely good debaters.

How exactly do you distinguish the genuinely good from the fakers?

you read their debates. looking at STALIN, we see debates where every round has been a forfiet by his opponent. now look at YYW or Envisage for example, they have significantly lower elo's than STALIN, yet extremely intellectual and interesting debates
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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10/12/2014 1:43:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 1:38:27 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:14:50 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

well really the leaderboard isn't worth much to begin with. we have people like STALIN who just snipe noobs and yet somehow have gained 5,000 elo... significantly more elo than genuinely good debaters.

How exactly do you distinguish the genuinely good from the fakers?

By reading their debates, evaluating the overall quality of their arguments in terms of logic, style, and supporting evidence as opposed to how much they agree with you, and by evaluating the the average level of their opponents.
Religion Forum Ambassador

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PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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10/12/2014 1:43:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And congrats y'all!

P.S. I didnt know there was an election for this...
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
vwv
Posts: 666
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10/12/2014 2:48:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 1:40:22 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:38:27 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:14:50 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

well really the leaderboard isn't worth much to begin with. we have people like STALIN who just snipe noobs and yet somehow have gained 5,000 elo... significantly more elo than genuinely good debaters.

How exactly do you distinguish the genuinely good from the fakers?

you read their debates. looking at STALIN, we see debates where every round has been a forfiet by his opponent. now look at YYW or Envisage for example, they have significantly lower elo's than STALIN, yet extremely intellectual and interesting debates

Sounds like envy because he got the easy wins that you failed to get tbph...

If you want a higher elo use his tactic and then the genuinely good debaters would rise again, correct?

If they are too lazy to do so then shame on them.
vwv
Posts: 666
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10/12/2014 2:50:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 1:43:18 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:38:27 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:14:50 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

well really the leaderboard isn't worth much to begin with. we have people like STALIN who just snipe noobs and yet somehow have gained 5,000 elo... significantly more elo than genuinely good debaters.

How exactly do you distinguish the genuinely good from the fakers?

By reading their debates, evaluating the overall quality of their arguments in terms of logic, style, and supporting evidence as opposed to how much they agree with you, and by evaluating the the average level of their opponents.

How do you distinguish genuinely good logic, style and supporting evidence from counterfeit good logic, style and supporting evidence?
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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10/12/2014 2:51:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 2:48:44 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:40:22 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:38:27 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:14:50 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

well really the leaderboard isn't worth much to begin with. we have people like STALIN who just snipe noobs and yet somehow have gained 5,000 elo... significantly more elo than genuinely good debaters.

How exactly do you distinguish the genuinely good from the fakers?

you read their debates. looking at STALIN, we see debates where every round has been a forfiet by his opponent. now look at YYW or Envisage for example, they have significantly lower elo's than STALIN, yet extremely intellectual and interesting debates

Sounds like envy because he got the easy wins that you failed to get tbph...

No, it isnt envy, it is disdain. He used unethical methods to game the site and con his way onto the leaderboards.


If you want a higher elo use his tactic and then the genuinely good debaters would rise again, correct?

No, using his tactic would degenerate the quality of this website, and flood it with terrible and useless debates.


If they are too lazy to do so then shame on them.

They are not too lazy to do it, they are simply more fair and responsible.
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PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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10/12/2014 2:53:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 2:50:12 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:43:18 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:38:27 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:14:50 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

well really the leaderboard isn't worth much to begin with. we have people like STALIN who just snipe noobs and yet somehow have gained 5,000 elo... significantly more elo than genuinely good debaters.

How exactly do you distinguish the genuinely good from the fakers?

By reading their debates, evaluating the overall quality of their arguments in terms of logic, style, and supporting evidence as opposed to how much they agree with you, and by evaluating the the average level of their opponents.

How do you distinguish genuinely good logic, style and supporting evidence from counterfeit good logic, style and supporting evidence?

Education. A well educated and intelligent person finds it quite easy to spot faulty logic, irrelevant or useless evidence, and bad style.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
vwv
Posts: 666
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10/12/2014 2:57:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 2:53:00 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/12/2014 2:50:12 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:43:18 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:38:27 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:14:50 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

well really the leaderboard isn't worth much to begin with. we have people like STALIN who just snipe noobs and yet somehow have gained 5,000 elo... significantly more elo than genuinely good debaters.

How exactly do you distinguish the genuinely good from the fakers?

By reading their debates, evaluating the overall quality of their arguments in terms of logic, style, and supporting evidence as opposed to how much they agree with you, and by evaluating the the average level of their opponents.

How do you distinguish genuinely good logic, style and supporting evidence from counterfeit good logic, style and supporting evidence?

Education. A well educated and intelligent person finds it quite easy to spot faulty logic, irrelevant or useless evidence, and bad style.

Being educated may give you the facts needed to spot it but it doesn't explain the process by which you go form seeing the argument to determining its strength or genuine 'goodness'.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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10/12/2014 2:59:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 2:57:41 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 2:53:00 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/12/2014 2:50:12 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:43:18 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:38:27 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:14:50 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

well really the leaderboard isn't worth much to begin with. we have people like STALIN who just snipe noobs and yet somehow have gained 5,000 elo... significantly more elo than genuinely good debaters.

How exactly do you distinguish the genuinely good from the fakers?

By reading their debates, evaluating the overall quality of their arguments in terms of logic, style, and supporting evidence as opposed to how much they agree with you, and by evaluating the the average level of their opponents.

How do you distinguish genuinely good logic, style and supporting evidence from counterfeit good logic, style and supporting evidence?

Education. A well educated and intelligent person finds it quite easy to spot faulty logic, irrelevant or useless evidence, and bad style.

Being educated may give you the facts needed to spot it but it doesn't explain the process by which you go form seeing the argument to determining its strength or genuine 'goodness'.

Yes it does. If you like, we can take this discussion elsewhere and actually get into the conversation.
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HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
vwv
Posts: 666
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10/12/2014 3:01:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 2:51:27 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/12/2014 2:48:44 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:40:22 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:38:27 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:14:50 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

well really the leaderboard isn't worth much to begin with. we have people like STALIN who just snipe noobs and yet somehow have gained 5,000 elo... significantly more elo than genuinely good debaters.

How exactly do you distinguish the genuinely good from the fakers?

you read their debates. looking at STALIN, we see debates where every round has been a forfiet by his opponent. now look at YYW or Envisage for example, they have significantly lower elo's than STALIN, yet extremely intellectual and interesting debates

Sounds like envy because he got the easy wins that you failed to get tbph...

No, it isnt envy, it is disdain. He used unethical methods to game the site and con his way onto the leaderboards.

You are jealous that he did it first. If you had done it too and been as high as him, you wouldn't be complaining. It is no coincidence that you and debatability are both far below his caliber, Elo-wise.


If you want a higher elo use his tactic and then the genuinely good debaters would rise again, correct?

No, using his tactic would degenerate the quality of this website, and flood it with terrible and useless debates.

Your personal opinion of his quality has no relevance to his place on the leader-board.


If they are too lazy to do so then shame on them.

They are not too lazy to do it, they are simply more fair and responsible.

If being fair and responsible prevents one from gaining a high Elo then perhaps one should sacrifice this value in order to get up there.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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10/12/2014 3:03:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 3:01:59 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 2:51:27 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/12/2014 2:48:44 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:40:22 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:38:27 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:14:50 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/12/2014 1:30:13 AM, vwv wrote:
What is leaderboard worth if you have hof?

well really the leaderboard isn't worth much to begin with. we have people like STALIN who just snipe noobs and yet somehow have gained 5,000 elo... significantly more elo than genuinely good debaters.

How exactly do you distinguish the genuinely good from the fakers?

you read their debates. looking at STALIN, we see debates where every round has been a forfiet by his opponent. now look at YYW or Envisage for example, they have significantly lower elo's than STALIN, yet extremely intellectual and interesting debates

Sounds like envy because he got the easy wins that you failed to get tbph...

No, it isnt envy, it is disdain. He used unethical methods to game the site and con his way onto the leaderboards.

You are jealous that he did it first. If you had done it too and been as high as him, you wouldn't be complaining. It is no coincidence that you and debatability are both far below his caliber, Elo-wise.


If you want a higher elo use his tactic and then the genuinely good debaters would rise again, correct?

No, using his tactic would degenerate the quality of this website, and flood it with terrible and useless debates.

Your personal opinion of his quality has no relevance to his place on the leader-board.


If they are too lazy to do so then shame on them.

They are not too lazy to do it, they are simply more fair and responsible.

If being fair and responsible prevents one from gaining a high Elo then perhaps one should sacrifice this value in order to get up there.

Hmm.. well then. It seems that you have resorted to personal insults instead of actually trying to have a decent conversation. I no longer want to speak to you. This conversation is over.
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