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Loss but no win.

user_name
Posts: 120
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10/21/2014 7:09:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Forfeits, make the forfeiter gain a loss but the winner gain no win. Is good idea or bad?

Perhaps if 50% or more of the rounds are forfeited then yes.
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Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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10/21/2014 7:22:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
1. It would be a complexity to the calculations, with little projected merit.
2. It would likely be abused. Just consider when you humiliate someone in the first round of a rematch.
3. (not saying this is a good thing) people occasionally win despite forfeiting multiple rounds.
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user_name
Posts: 120
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10/21/2014 7:28:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 7:22:28 AM, Ragnar wrote:
1. It would be a complexity to the calculations, with little projected merit.

I apologize to you but I do not understand...

2. It would likely be abused. Just consider when you humiliate someone in the first round of a rematch.

Oh yes, but the loss is undeniable.

3. (not saying this is a good thing) people occasionally win despite forfeiting multiple rounds.

If they forfeited 50% or more rounds I consider this unacceptable as the debate didn't go the format it was set up to go.
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Ragnar
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10/21/2014 7:45:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Basically getting any system changed in hard here, due to the parent company not wanting to spend too much money, or otherwise take risks.

Right now it's a very simple few calculation to assign a win and a lose and adjust ELO scores, all changes balancing out. To change it so that the FFing (full forfeit) side is the only side that can earn a win or a lose, would be a multiple potentially clunky piece-wise calculation added into it, which would then need to be extensively error tested, not to mention get committee approval.
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user_name
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10/21/2014 7:46:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 7:45:14 AM, Ragnar wrote:
Basically getting any system changed in hard here, due to the parent company not wanting to spend too much money, or otherwise take risks.

Right now it's a very simple few calculation to assign a win and a lose and adjust ELO scores, all changes balancing out. To change it so that the FFing (full forfeit) side is the only side that can earn a win or a lose, would be a multiple potentially clunky piece-wise calculation added into it, which would then need to be extensively error tested, not to mention get committee approval.

Would you agree that forfeiting displays how bad the forfeiter is but not how good the winner is?
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Ragnar
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10/21/2014 8:22:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 7:46:07 AM, user_name wrote:
Would you agree that forfeiting displays how bad the forfeiter is but not how good the winner is?
Generally yes, but again, the change would likely be abused. The risk of intentional abuse (people dropping out to deny their opponent a win, then the occasional especially problematic member spamming the comments laughing about it) seems a rather high cost, for little gain.

While a victory is far more meaningful without forfeits, conduct remains 1/7th of any victory by DDO standards (if anyone thinks this is not true, please provide a link to any official document indicating otherwise).
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user_name
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10/21/2014 8:27:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:22:06 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:46:07 AM, user_name wrote:
Would you agree that forfeiting displays how bad the forfeiter is but not how good the winner is?
Generally yes, but again, the change would likely be abused. The risk of intentional abuse (people dropping out to deny their opponent a win, then the occasional especially problematic member spamming the comments laughing about it) seems a rather high cost, for little gain.

While a victory is far more meaningful without forfeits, conduct remains 1/7th of any victory by DDO standards (if anyone thinks this is not true, please provide a link to any official document indicating otherwise).

I feel as if the conduct point is unrelated to the 'meaningful' point.

Additionally, I'm not sure what is wrong with winning a debate because a fool accepted it.
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user-name.
user_name
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10/21/2014 8:27:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:22:06 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 10/21/2014 7:46:07 AM, user_name wrote:
Would you agree that forfeiting displays how bad the forfeiter is but not how good the winner is?
Generally yes, but again, the change would likely be abused. The risk of intentional abuse (people dropping out to deny their opponent a win, then the occasional especially problematic member spamming the comments laughing about it) seems a rather high cost, for little gain.

While a victory is far more meaningful without forfeits, conduct remains 1/7th of any victory by DDO standards (if anyone thinks this is not true, please provide a link to any official document indicating otherwise).

Okay I see the issue now, they will intentionally grab wins...
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user-name.