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Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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4/22/2010 12:11:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Does someone know what happened?

http://www.debate.org...
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/22/2010 12:14:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
This is why:

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"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
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Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/22/2010 3:55:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
<sigh>
What about my ode! My ode!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/22/2010 5:05:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 5:00:58 AM, True2GaGa wrote:
I emailed her.

Tell her I said hi!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Letera
Posts: 35
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4/22/2010 5:06:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 5:01:36 AM, Letera wrote:
what a shame

it seems that thier are too few females on this site from what I have read.
Kahvan
Posts: 1,339
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4/22/2010 5:07:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 5:05:11 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 4/22/2010 5:00:58 AM, True2GaGa wrote:
I emailed her.

Tell her I said hi!

same
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/22/2010 5:10:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 5:06:10 AM, Letera wrote:
At 4/22/2010 5:01:36 AM, Letera wrote:
what a shame

it seems that thier are too few females on this site from what I have read.

Without trying to sound sexist, fewer women want to join a debate site and maybe some are driven away by the demographics.

But anyway two of our best debators are female, Vi Veri and the Lwerd.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
philosphical
Posts: 1,643
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4/22/2010 8:28:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 8:25:16 AM, Koopin wrote:
Hmm, I wonder what happened.

She got sick of people dis-agreeing with her, and adding insult to injury. That's what happens when you care to much about what other people say about you
Your mouths writing checks that your @ss can't cash!
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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4/22/2010 8:45:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Such a shame. I hope she comes back soon, but I suppose I shouldn't hold my breath - she's been talking about going for awhile.

Oh well. Hopefully she finds something better to do now that she's left. Good luck.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/22/2010 8:48:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 8:28:16 AM, philosphical wrote:
At 4/22/2010 8:25:16 AM, Koopin wrote:
Hmm, I wonder what happened.

She got sick of people dis-agreeing with her, and adding insult to injury. That's what happens when you care to much about what other people say about you

For once, we agree.

This is debate.org but by her own admission she doesn't like to debate. That's fine - she could stay here for the community. But when she said she was leaving last time, she said, "Time to go find a new debate community that'll be more accepting of my ideas." In other words, she doesn't want to be part of a DEBATING community. Because a debating community isn't going to just accept her ideas lol they're going to debate with her. That's the point.

So, in that thread when Kenyon made a comment like, "It's sure not you" [who's debating] it was funny because she doesn't debate and doesn't like to debate. This is all by her own admission... so how were we being mean? She shouldn't be insecure about not debating. She should own it. And if she can't handle it, or it upsets her, then she should probably just leave I guess. Though I do hope she comes back... *shrugs*
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Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/22/2010 8:54:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 8:48:11 AM, theLwerd wrote:
So, in that thread when Kenyon made a comment like, "It's sure not you" [who's debating] it was funny because she doesn't debate and doesn't like to debate. This is all by her own admission... so how were we being mean? She shouldn't be insecure about not debating. She should own it. And if she can't handle it, or it upsets her, then she should probably just leave I guess. Though I do hope she comes back... *shrugs*

I am guessing (but I can't be sure) that she felt some of the debate topics were too personal, as in religion or even with regards her politics which are somewhat of a minority opinion on a site with so many anarchists, libertarians etc, but you have to role with the punches. Hopefully she will change her mind and come back, for the forums if nothing else.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 9:06:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 8:48:11 AM, theLwerd wrote:
But when she said she was leaving last time, she said, "Time to go find a new debate community that'll be more accepting of my ideas." In other words, she doesn't want to be part of a DEBATING community. Because a debating community isn't going to just accept her ideas lol they're going to debate with her. That's the point.
She said 'more' accepting, not entirely accepting. I think she means that she will feel more welcome and comfortable in a debate community where the members will not be as much opposing towards her (regarding religion etc.) as they are here. Christians may not feel being accepted here as much as on a Christian debate/community site, and the same goes for Muslims, Hindus, etc.

I agree that it can be stressful when people say some things that actually go deep into one's personality (as if it were impossible to be friends and respectful, yet holding different world views), but the good thing on a site like this one is that you can show the real side of your belief to more people who do not share that belief, such as when I speak about my religion, it makes more sense to do it here than on a Muslim site, since there's more chance that non-Muslims will read it here because they are larger in number.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/22/2010 9:13:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 9:06:58 AM, Mirza wrote:

She said 'more' accepting, not entirely accepting. I think she means that she will feel more welcome and comfortable in a debate community where the members will not be as much opposing towards her (regarding religion etc.) as they are here.

I agree with everything you said except for this ^ . If she doesn't want people to oppose her then she shouldn't be on a debating site. She should be on a Muslim site. Opposing her is the whole point. If nobody opposed her, this wouldn't be DEBATE.org.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 9:16:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 9:13:39 AM, theLwerd wrote:
I agree with everything you said except for this ^ . If she doesn't want people to oppose her then she shouldn't be on a debating site. She should be on a Muslim site. Opposing her is the whole point. If nobody opposed her, this wouldn't be DEBATE.org.
Debate.org is special in its form of debate. Many 'debate' sites are only through forums. She can be on such 'debating' sites and feel more welcome. Also, if another site is like this one, except that 95% of all members are Muslims, then she will still feel better being there because even though 5% may oppose her, the other 95% will agree with her.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/22/2010 9:19:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 9:16:27 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/22/2010 9:13:39 AM, theLwerd wrote:
I agree with everything you said except for this ^ . If she doesn't want people to oppose her then she shouldn't be on a debating site. She should be on a Muslim site. Opposing her is the whole point. If nobody opposed her, this wouldn't be DEBATE.org.
Debate.org is special in its form of debate. Many 'debate' sites are only through forums. She can be on such 'debating' sites and feel more welcome. Also, if another site is like this one, except that 95% of all members are Muslims, then she will still feel better being there because even though 5% may oppose her, the other 95% will agree with her.

In other words, she can't defend her views (i.e. not debate) unless other people back her up, or do all the work for her. Gotcha.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 9:20:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 9:19:24 AM, theLwerd wrote:
In other words, she can't defend her views (i.e. not debate) unless other people back her up, or do all the work for her. Gotcha.
No, it may be that emotions stand in the way.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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4/22/2010 9:22:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 9:19:24 AM, theLwerd wrote:
In other words, she can't defend her views (i.e. not debate) unless other people back her up, or do all the work for her. Gotcha.

I don't think that's true (I realize you're not accusing her directly, just going off of what Mirza said). I think she just lacked the confidence to debate about topics because a lot of debaters here can be pretty intimidating in their knowledge. It might just be the net, but getting schooled in knowledge will make you think twice either way.

The problem is that she had no confidence in her ability to argue, and people like Nags and Askbob being jerks, not intellectually but just plain jerks, didn't help that.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/22/2010 9:32:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 9:22:42 AM, Volkov wrote:

I don't think that's true (I realize you're not accusing her directly, just going off of what Mirza said). I think she just lacked the confidence to debate about topics because a lot of debaters here can be pretty intimidating in their knowledge. It might just be the net, but getting schooled in knowledge will make you think twice either way.

Yes, there are intelligent people here. That's a good thing because you tend to learn something new pretty often. If you're going to be intimidated by knowledge instead of interested, then DDO isn't the place for you.

The problem is that she had no confidence in her ability to argue, and people like Nags and Askbob being jerks, not intellectually but just plain jerks, didn't help that.

True. They've just been very blunt which I admit can be rude, though in all fairness they are not only blunt towards Insert but everybody else. Anyway I PM'd her and very patiently tried to have a simple discussion about one of her views (socialism) and it was like pulling teeth... no offense, Insert, who I'm sure will be back lurking and reading this thread.

I asked her slowly and specifically using the Socratic method to explain why she believes in socialism. She simply responded (several times) saying that she could simply not defend her views, and though she understood why it's important to be able to do so, that she just has no desire to really try and essentially just kept conceding and repeating herself into a circle of nothingness and non-sensicalness.

I was trying to be the opposite of rude, and go out of my way to be nice and try to help her form an intelligent argument about her beliefs (say, Marxist argument or utilitarian argument) but she was just not having it. She has no desire to debate about her political, religious beliefs, etc. and frankly that's what DDO is about: debating. You can't say "I'm a socialist" and expect people to give a sh-t or accept it when you can't defend it, right? Anyway, whatevskies.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/22/2010 9:34:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 9:20:05 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/22/2010 9:19:24 AM, theLwerd wrote:
In other words, she can't defend her views (i.e. not debate) unless other people back her up, or do all the work for her. Gotcha.
No, it may be that emotions stand in the way.

Right. So when people tell me on a daily basis that I'm going to hell, and liken me and my lifestyle to that of a pedophiles, or say that I am demented or gross, or claim that I should not have the same rights as them thereby reducing me to less than human - sure, that doesn't affect me emotionally at all. Haha. Point is, you can either deal with it or you can't. I guess she can't.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/22/2010 9:41:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 9:34:29 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Right. So when people tell me on a daily basis that I'm going to hell, and liken me and my lifestyle to that of a pedophiles, or say that I am demented or gross, or claim that I should not have the same rights as them thereby reducing me to less than human - sure, that doesn't affect me emotionally at all. Haha. Point is, you can either deal with it or you can't. I guess she can't.
I don't see the point in writing this. I was merely stating that her emotions may stand in the way. For example, it may the be that she can refute something, and does refute one argument, but feels much pressure with more and more arguments, that she feels stressed about it, and decided not to argue anymore. This is actually normal for people.

It may be that she can't deal with much pressure, but as I said, it is normal. We are different.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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4/22/2010 10:09:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 9:16:27 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/22/2010 9:13:39 AM, theLwerd wrote:
I agree with everything you said except for this ^ . If she doesn't want people to oppose her then she shouldn't be on a debating site. She should be on a Muslim site. Opposing her is the whole point. If nobody opposed her, this wouldn't be DEBATE.org.
Debate.org is special in its form of debate. Many 'debate' sites are only through forums. She can be on such 'debating' sites and feel more welcome. Also, if another site is like this one, except that 95% of all members are Muslims, then she will still feel better being there because even though 5% may oppose her, the other 95% will agree with her.

If I was religious I would actively seek out others to test and express my faith, but thats just me.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/22/2010 10:10:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 4/22/2010 9:43:24 AM, wjmelements wrote:
She left in the middle of a mafia game.

It's not like she was playing anyway.
President of DDO