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help me out guys

debatability
Posts: 1,160
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11/13/2014 11:20:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
So the new pf topic is: For profit prisons should be banned.

my pf partner and i want to make a case for the aff that claims *all* prisons should be banned (including private prisons). any ideas on how to run a case like this?

we want the craziest cases possible for this topic so any ideasa are welcome for either aff or neg :P
AngelofDeath
Posts: 2,953
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11/13/2014 11:29:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 11:20:29 PM, debatability wrote:
So the new pf topic is: For profit prisons should be banned.

my pf partner and i want to make a case for the aff that claims *all* prisons should be banned (including private prisons). any ideas on how to run a case like this?

we want the craziest cases possible for this topic so any ideasa are welcome for either aff or neg :P

Prisons take away human rights in that they restrict citizens from one of their 3 natural rights, freedom to pursue happiness. Prisons entrap humans like animals in cages, which prevents them from going and doing what makes them happy, and then prisons in general force these humans to eat only what they are permitted by the state budget and to work for their way out (sometimes) which is like slave labor. If they have a life sentence, it's basically like saying hey, youre still a citizen of the US but you dont get any of your rights ever again because of one thing that you did was wrong.... so you dont ever get a chance of redemption.

BUT WAIT, PF is debate of fact, not morals.... so i guess you would have to use stats if you wanted to use that as points... *shrugs* I'm still on LD mindset right now lol. I'm writing my cases right now for tomorrow's competition, i know, i know, i'm a pathetic procrastinator XD
I may or may not be a cat
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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11/13/2014 11:32:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 11:20:29 PM, debatability wrote:
So the new pf topic is: For profit prisons should be banned.

my pf partner and i want to make a case for the aff that claims *all* prisons should be banned (including private prisons). any ideas on how to run a case like this?

we want the craziest cases possible for this topic so any ideasa are welcome for either aff or neg :P

Aff is pretty clear, but abolishing prisons...you could potentially run a case for establishing rehabilitation centers instead (the point, after all, is rehabilitation, not punishment).
thett3
Posts: 14,360
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11/13/2014 11:35:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
ancap k
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whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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11/13/2014 11:56:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You could always run "Privatize Prisons" on Con. There's data to support it, though it's not an open-shut case.

reason.org/news/show/private-prisons
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/14/2014 12:54:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 11:20:29 PM, debatability wrote:
So the new pf topic is: For profit prisons should be banned.

my pf partner and i want to make a case for the aff that claims *all* prisons should be banned (including private prisons). any ideas on how to run a case like this?

we want the craziest cases possible for this topic so any ideasa are welcome for either aff or neg :P

My partner and I ran a dumb Aff in policy once just for fun to see if we could still win it because we had already assured ourselves a spot at the state qualifier. I ended up regretting it. It was kind of fun to run it, until the ballots came back and we lost both rounds to novice teams. Losing sucks.

I have old case files on private prisons. I think this was already a PF topic. You're better off saying that the prison industrial complex in general is bad and that we lock up way too many people. There's a good argument in Malcolm Gladwell's new book David and Goliath arguing that incarceration rates and crime follow a U-trend, meaning that once you move from almost no incarceration to more incarceration, crime rates go down because you're getting dangerous people of the streets (serving the goal of incapacitation) and achieving more deterrence. However, once you start locking up too many people (as we've done; I think 1 in 3 US males will spend at least some time in jail in their lifetimes), you actually start *increasing* crime rates because you've locked up so many people that you disrupt entire communities, leave people growing up without fathers, turn prisons into "schools for crime," and give people no economic opportunities because being a criminal seriously decreases job opportunities. Private prisons are bad insofar as they allow more incarceration that our tax dollars are willing to bear. If you basically say: we can't afford any more public prisons, then stop incarcerating so damn many people. You can't slash prison spending by 1/3 by hiring private prisons, which give prisoners only one roll of toilet paper a month and insufficient food. That's really not the answer. Rethink our drug laws and whether minor possession is worth the long jail sentences we attach to it.

tldr; argue drug decriminalization to decrease incarceration rates instead, if you're interested in an argument that you have a semi-plausible chance of winning. "Abolish all prisons" you're never going to win. People will say that some murderers and rapists can't be rehabilitated and you can't just have no penalty. Losing sucks, and with such an extreme position, you're definitely gonna lose.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/14/2014 12:56:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
i.e. at least run something zany that you have a shot at winning
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/14/2014 1:01:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
For profit prisons are also bull$hit because of lobbying. We already have prison guards unions lobbying for three strikes laws, mandatory minimums, and opposing decriminalization because the more people we lock up, the more money that prison guards get. Do we really want to add lobbying money from for profit prisons into the mix? For profit prisons create a cycle where the government is continually lobbied to criminalize more things so the prisons can profit even further. And the conditions get worse and worse as they cut costs. The less you invest in prisoners, the less likely they are to get rehabilitated and develop the skills (such as through educational programs generally only available in public prisons) that will enable them to succeed after release.

On Con though, I'd support for profit prisons only if they only got merit pay. We pay them based on the recidivism rate of their prisoners (benchmarked to a historical average state recidivism rate, i.e. they get paid only if their recidivism rate is lower than "normal"). It creates private sector incentives to create more effective programs for decreasing recidivism rates. I would totally support that. If they can figure out a way to do that, great for them.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)