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Losing touch with who I used to be.

Kleptin
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5/2/2010 10:27:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I've been here for a while, as have most of the people reading this, no doubt. Over the years, I've been exposed to a lot of people who support certain political or metaphysical philosophies with various levels of fervor.

I've learned quite a lot from people who can operate under a mindset devoted to a certain philosophy, amazed and astounded by their ways of seeing the world through a philosophy that they have seemingly mastered.

There seems to be an infinite database out there and the people on this site are little hubs allowing me to see the intricacies of our world (whether beautiful or ugly) through a finely tuned lens.

Reason, logic, masterfully crafted explanations and arguments come from all of you, in ways that most people outside of this site would never be able to appreciate, and I reveled in this world of magnificent intelligence that provided me relief from what I felt was a world filled with apathetic idiots.

*I feel as if though I am becoming one of those apathetic idiots*

What used to be admiration for a detailed explanation in accordance with a particular philosophy has, for me, devolved into a feeling of distaste. As if though they were very well versed in something that has absolutely no value whatsoever.

This pales in comparison to what I used to feel, to what used to motivate me into looking deeper into those arguments, and to educate myself about those philosophies and change my view of the world.

I've tried to understand why and came to two possible conclusions:

1. I've been properly brainwashed by society. Most if not all philosophies that people are fervent proponents of on this site go strictly against mainstream thought, defining others as having herd mentality, supporting deviation in thought and vision. It stands to reason that if I have been properly brainwashed, then I would obviously resist the philosophies that push me to think outside of the box. I have been pushed against trying to better myself through free thought, logic, and reason and into a mindless complacency like all the other sheep of the world, and am no longer a freethinking intellectual, but one of the idiots I used to hate.

2. I'm growing up. It's not actually my problem, but the problem of those who have decided to adopt all of these philosophies. I find the fervency of this philosophical support distasteful because it is impractical, idealistic, and an outgrowth of people who want to be outside the social norm for no reason except to be special or different, and they search mastery over something impractical because they lack practical skills at this early stage of life.

What brought this on:

I have a good relationship with my parents and they told me that as time goes by, the beliefs you held as a younger person get completely wiped away as idealism is replaced by pragmatism. I used to think that was because of their lack of educational resources and intellectual exposure, but I'm starting to feel that they are right.

What I seek: The experiment I have designed to test which one is more applicable is as follows-

For those of you who see yourself as mature and stabilized in life, those who are married, have a career, have children, what are your philosophical views? Have they changed at all since you were a teen? Do you find yourself as complacent as I am, and do you share my views?

For those of you who are around my age or younger, do you have any strong or fervent philosophical beliefs? Do they manifest in your day-to-day life? Do they have any relevance to your long-term goals? Can you see yourself having the influence of your philosophy 5 years from now? 10 years from now? 20 years from now? If so, how will they manifest? If not, how do you think they will change?

Inherent bias in this experiment: Participants of this site tend to have strong philosophical leanings, regardless of current status.

Thanks DDOers. I look forward to your response.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
innomen
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5/2/2010 10:52:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Major applause for you!

As one who grew up holding a fairly liberal ideology, then hard core libertarian in college, and now a sort of amalgam of all the above it is practical application of what I hold to be an ideal and what I am capable of in making my life what I want it to be.
There was a time that I was holding onto an ideal to my detriment. The the momentary sacrifice of that ideal would profoundly help me and others around me, but would sacrifice my ideal. A man older and wiser said something to me that I will never forget, and I repeat and pass on at every opportunity: "Don't sanctify the ridiculous". It was hard and depressing for me to move on, but eventually I saw it as ridiculously rigid and stubborn of me to not bend. My mind became more open when I was less entrenched in my ideals. My ethics never wavered, and my constant value of never wanting to harm another person, was maintained always, but my position on issues, and situations now are flexible if I am able to take on different perspectives.

I understand a certain feeling of loss when you have a shift in perspective, it's profound, but it's also pride.

I will tell you that what you wrote has made my day. You have restored some disappointment that I have been dealing with when it comes to people at your stage in life. To know how little you know, and to accept that you can be wrong is profound, and part of successful growth. I will read your posts more closely and you have a great deal of respect from me (for what it's worth).
Kudos.
Kleptin
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5/2/2010 11:03:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Innomen, I want to thank you for your input.

Do you remember the shift you felt in detail? And what are some examples as to how you felt and what you thought when your beliefs started to switch? What are some examples of ideals that became flexible as time went on and can you tell me more about how you managed to reconcile idealism and practicality?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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5/2/2010 11:15:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Honestly, I doubt any of my major philosophical beliefs will change due to age. Sure, when I grow up I probably will change some of them, but only because I hear new opinions, arguments, information, etc. The actual process and journey of growing up, becoming a full-fledged adult citizen, joining the work force, etc. likely won't affect my views (especially since many of them are philosophically abstract in nature :P).
Kleptin
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5/2/2010 11:26:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 11:15:08 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Honestly, I doubt any of my major philosophical beliefs will change due to age. Sure, when I grow up I probably will change some of them, but only because I hear new opinions, arguments, information, etc. The actual process and journey of growing up, becoming a full-fledged adult citizen, joining the work force, etc. likely won't affect my views (especially since many of them are philosophically abstract in nature :P).

Philosophical ideals are like muscles. During the time I spent away from this site, I felt them atrophy. As a philosophy major, you're probably feeling them all the time. Once you get a full-time job, get married, and have kids, you probably won't have any space for the pursuit of philosophical knowledge. Your priorities will change into what can benefit your life and the lives of those you love. Can you honestly say what things will be like 20 years from now when 20 years ago you didn't even exist?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/2/2010 11:33:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 11:03:21 AM, Kleptin wrote:
Innomen, I want to thank you for your input.

Do you remember the shift you felt in detail? And what are some examples as to how you felt and what you thought when your beliefs started to switch? What are some examples of ideals that became flexible as time went on and can you tell me more about how you managed to reconcile idealism and practicality?

There are many, and I will never forget a friend telling me that she has a little magnet on her fridge that says "my ability to change is my greatest asset".

I will tell you that at first I fought it. It also became difficult to know when it was right to hold onto what I believed and when it was time to compromise. I want you to think about the number of conflicts that I have had to deal with: I am a practicing catholic, I have voted republican (I don't claim a party), I am gay, and I live with an immigrant. As a Catholic, I had thought priests were sacred and that the church was of God. So many events made me understand that the church was of man, and priests were men. I found someone to help me understand this, and I had to readjust my thinking, but not my faith. REligion became a structure made of men, which has a place in my life, but not THE place in my life. Understanding my own imperfections helped me understand where I stand with men and God, but finding certain people that had a great influence in me that I respected was how I got through it.
When I was in college I studied Sovietology and spent some time in Russia. Prior to that I was pretty liberal, but seeing, living in, and studying communism and socialism was a crisis in my mind. I will never forget not just the surroundings, but the people. I remember feeling that these people are nothing like me. They don't think like I do, they don't feel the way I do, they are nothing like me. I was kind of a mess for a while. I had always believed that people were essentially the same everywhere. It just wasn't true though. How could it be true? How could it not be true? I was lucky to have a professor that helped me a lot in understanding why, and not being afraid to say what I could see to be the truth.
Later in life I began to work. Eventually I was given more and more responsibility. Along the way I had to learn how business works. There are a lot of changes that occurred in my thinking with this. I always had good bosses that I respected and who mentored me along.

Each situation had different feelings. In some cases I was ashamed by my silly naive positions, now never do I feel ashamed. In all cases I found someone to help me. someone that I respected a lot, and someone that was pretty gentle and not judgemental.

There have also been occasions where it felt like I found a huge discovery, and it was like I was blind before and can now see straight, or more straight. I know the growing pains you speak of, and to be honest, you are leaps and bounds ahead of most on this site by saying out loud (or whatever this is) what you said. It is a wonderful thing that you are saying what you are saying, you just cannot see it now. I will tell you to copy what you wrote and keep it for a long time. It will be valuable to you at some point. It will be valuable for someone else at some point when you are the one writing what I am writing. It also takes courage to do and say what you are doing and saying. The easy way out is to adhere to the dictates of our smaller mind, but to break out and see what you see is good.

Don't think for a moment that you are no longer unique, because you cannot be. If you can see what I see, the sophomoric (and appropriately so) postings of adolescents is not unique, the one who can actually see himself for truly what is going on inside and out is the unique one at this moment.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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5/2/2010 11:34:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I control my beliefs, they do not control me. They do not come up at work, or at parties, unless I let them. Someone can say something I completely disagree with and I don't have to argue, not get mad, nor even feel my blood preasure raise because of a desire to argue.

I will say that every day, I listen Rush Limbaugh, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, and Sean Hannity (and others every now and again, but those ones everyday), and I always strive, not to agree or disagree with them, but to try to understand why they think the way they do. When I find myself calling them idiots and that is my entire excuse because I don't want to exert the effort to research the topic, I go find myself.

I find that spending an entire weekend doing absolutely nothing that involves society or politics clears my head and lets me start fresh. I will drive to the beach and spend all day just walking up and down it listening to oldies and classical rock, and maybe some old school country.

It's like if you're working a job for a long time and you start to slow down and you don't want to slow down, sometimes you just need to stop all to gether, take a breather, and get back to it.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/2/2010 11:40:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 11:34:37 AM, OreEle wrote:
I control my beliefs, they do not control me. They do not come up at work, or at parties, unless I let them. Someone can say something I completely disagree with and I don't have to argue, not get mad, nor even feel my blood preasure raise because of a desire to argue.

I will say that every day, I listen Rush Limbaugh, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, and Sean Hannity (and others every now and again, but those ones everyday), and I always strive, not to agree or disagree with them, but to try to understand why they think the way they do. When I find myself calling them idiots and that is my entire excuse because I don't want to exert the effort to research the topic, I go find myself.

I find that spending an entire weekend doing absolutely nothing that involves society or politics clears my head and lets me start fresh. I will drive to the beach and spend all day just walking up and down it listening to oldies and classical rock, and maybe some old school country.

It's like if you're working a job for a long time and you start to slow down and you don't want to slow down, sometimes you just need to stop all to gether, take a breather, and get back to it.

Sorry, but you're still very young. It isn't almost ever the big issues in the world that cause you to shift your positions, or your perspectives, but specific experiences that can cause a change. Those who close themselves to the changes that come with experience are fools, and are loosing out in growth. A huge shift in my understanding of life and happiness came from living with my partner in abject poverty in a small village in Nicaragua. It wasn't the political positions of the Sandinistas that made me angry, but seeing the day to day corruption to those who live in the country that made me see things differently. It also had to come to me when I was ready for it, so the change or growth could happen.
Kleptin
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5/2/2010 11:56:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 11:34:37 AM, OreEle wrote:
I control my beliefs, they do not control me.

I used to believe that, but now I believe it less and less. I've discovered that what I believe changes over time, and that I have little to no control over it. Reading something or being given an argument rarely changes my beliefs, more so, I find that my beliefs change the amount to which I allow myself to be swayed by something that provokes thought. I rationalize, I develop counterarguments, I do everything except allow my beliefs to be changed in that one instant. Beliefs don't change consciously, at least, for me. It's the fact that they change without my willingness that makes me question what you said.

I will say that every day, I listen Rush Limbaugh, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, and Sean Hannity (and others every now and again, but those ones everyday), and I always strive, not to agree or disagree with them, but to try to understand why they think the way they do. When I find myself calling them idiots and that is my entire excuse because I don't want to exert the effort to research the topic, I go find myself.

I can't see myself listening to *any* politician every day. I don't think I'd even encounter a political or philosophical discussion in a week. Where do you work?

I find that spending an entire weekend doing absolutely nothing that involves society or politics clears my head and lets me start fresh. I will drive to the beach and spend all day just walking up and down it listening to oldies and classical rock, and maybe some old school country.

In stark contrast, I can't think of a situation in which society or politics would come up during a weekend for me. I'd think that the weekend would generally be spent shopping for groceries, planning out the coming week, spending time with the kids, watching TV with the wife, going to my parents' house for dinner, and cleaning up around the house.

It's like if you're working a job for a long time and you start to slow down and you don't want to slow down, sometimes you just need to stop all to gether, take a breather, and get back to it.

But that's the thing. I stopped caring about debate for a month or so and now, it's as if though all the cogs and gears have rusted over, and I don't have the motivation to "get back to it" :(
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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5/2/2010 12:07:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I myself sometimes feel like I'm become more "apathetic" as well. If one thing is for sure, I find less and less tolerance for the stubbornness of other individuals in regards to their beliefs, even though I'm probably equal if not worse in my stances. I feel that, yes, my beliefs and ideology draw me towards more things than I can draw it and that yes, expressing them and trying to follow them is important for me, but when you get to a website like this, where over half of the users have pretty much made up their mind, there's not much you can do but feel apathetic to it all. I mean, if you can't influence another's thinking and if you only get the same old lines back and have the same continued bickering and pointless arguments, what's the point? Those are my reasons for being apathetic, anyways.
innomen
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5/2/2010 12:09:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 12:07:03 PM, Volkov wrote:
I myself sometimes feel like I'm become more "apathetic" as well. If one thing is for sure, I find less and less tolerance for the stubbornness of other individuals in regards to their beliefs, even though I'm probably equal if not worse in my stances. I feel that, yes, my beliefs and ideology draw me towards more things than I can draw it and that yes, expressing them and trying to follow them is important for me, but when you get to a website like this, where over half of the users have pretty much made up their mind, there's not much you can do but feel apathetic to it all. I mean, if you can't influence another's thinking and if you only get the same old lines back and have the same continued bickering and pointless arguments, what's the point? Those are my reasons for being apathetic, anyways.

Actually i consider you one of the more open minded, less arrogant, people on this site.
Volkov
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5/2/2010 12:11:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 12:09:28 PM, innomen wrote:
Actually i consider you one of the more open minded, less arrogant, people on this site.

Haha, thanks, however I personally get pretty tired of the same recycled arguments going nowhere. There reaches a point sometimes that you're just so ardent in your beliefs, or you're just so annoyed at some particular person, that you just shut it out and carry on. I've found myself doing it several times.
innomen
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5/2/2010 12:20:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At some point there is no point. That's a bit different (I think) than what he's getting at. Growth is change, and sometimes the philosophical arguments on our ideals get into areas of a non-sequitur. The practical application of life, forces us to know when our ideals are nothing more than arguing how many angels can dance at the point of a pin, and what truly works and should be held close to our heart. I looked at Skeptic's response and understood where I was at one point in my life, and am grateful I was there at that time, but am even more grateful to know that I have changed for the better.
PoeJoe
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5/2/2010 12:22:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 10:27:25 AM, Kleptin wrote:
For those of you who are around my age or younger, do you have any strong or fervent philosophical beliefs?

When I joined this site, I had few political beliefs, and with time, after reading the bicker of everyone around me, I started to have more and more opinions. And I'm still learning, so I don't have many fervent philosophical beliefs, no. I spend most of my time on here reading, or discussing issues with people via PM.

I used to believe capitalism was inherently evil--that used to be my strongest belief. Now I'm doubting even that.

Do they manifest in your day-to-day life?

I'm an outspoken liberal in real life, much more confident than I really am. I guess I do this to have a certain image in the eyes of my peeps.

Do they have any relevance to your long-term goals?

You live by what you know, and if you live your life without opinions, you've wasted your life entirely. So, yeah.

And one particular area of study that really interests me at the moment is environmental science. Give me more time to think, and I might pick that as a career path, whether as an environmental lawyer, or some other job, perhaps trying to land a job at Greenpeace or something.

Can you see yourself having the influence of your philosophy 5 years from now? 10 years from now? 20 years from now? If so, how will they manifest? If not, how do you think they will change?

Well, I don't have strong opinions right now, so of course I see myself getting more and more passionate with time.
Television Rot: http://tvrot.com...
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/2/2010 12:26:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
For the last generation, the majority of the people were liberals when young and conservatives when they got older. This might be because the political equilibrium and the status quo have changed over time. I believe that as we get older, our beliefs shift to the mainstream simply because we are molded more by the world around us. We gradually conform to our culture in the same way.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
innomen
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5/2/2010 12:34:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 12:26:07 PM, wjmelements wrote:
For the last generation, the majority of the people were liberals when young and conservatives when they got older. This might be because the political equilibrium and the status quo have changed over time. I believe that as we get older, our beliefs shift to the mainstream simply because we are molded more by the world around us. We gradually conform to our culture in the same way.

Also, as you get older you realize that when you were young, you thought you were an original thinker, you thought that you were a free thinker, but in reality you were conforming to something you dare not challenge. It is far more rare for an adolescent to challenge his peers, culture, friends etc, than someone who has grown to some independence in his or her life.

As you grow and have needs that are different, if you have children and you have or want a house, and you want vacations, you understand you need money, and you need to make money, the more you can make the more you can provide. This is a shift that is very serious in how you see things. Paying taxes, a lot of taxes can also have a change in how you see things.

It isn't some inevitable retreat or failure, but rather a slow enlightenment in the way things are.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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5/2/2010 12:38:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 10:27:25 AM, Kleptin wrote:
For those of you who are around my age or younger, do you have any strong or fervent philosophical beliefs?

Yes. Laissez faire capitalism (Austrian economics), consequentialist libertarianism, classical liberalism, and atheism.

Do they manifest in your day-to-day life?

Sometimes. I usually won't bring the above beliefs up just for the sake of conversation, though I will certainly give my opinion if the topic arises.

Do they have any relevance to your long-term goals? Can you see yourself having the influence of your philosophy 5 years from now? 10 years from now? 20 years from now? If so, how will they manifest?

Yes. I'd like to be a politician in the future to advance libertarianism, and maybe atheism. I don't see myself changing this goal.

If not, how do you think they will change?

My beliefs could change, I don't know. I am almost certain I will continue to be an atheist for my whole life. My political beliefs could change a little bit, I doubt that much though. I'm not really all that interested in philosophy besides political philosophy and atheism, so I don't really know where I will be morally and philosophically years from now.
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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5/2/2010 1:15:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 12:26:07 PM, wjmelements wrote:
For the last generation, the majority of the people were liberals when young and conservatives when they got older. This might be because the political equilibrium and the status quo have changed over time. I believe that as we get older, our beliefs shift to the mainstream simply because we are molded more by the world around us. We gradually conform to our culture in the same way.

I think that has much to do with how younger people see the world as having been messed up by the older generation, and don't understand economics or have a job, and think that the world can be solved with liberalism. Then when they get a job and have responsabilities, they realize how much effort it takes and bocome more fiscally conservative.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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5/2/2010 1:41:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Not trying to be condescending, but I had one of these things a while ago and I still have them every now and then, these periods of apathy. You'll have to apply it yourself, but my explanation for why I have these things is that it's because I'm learning a lot about the world.

TheSkeptic will probably find a problem with this, but I think the reason people believe so strongly in the things that they believe in is because they believe it's true. Thus, the moar you know and the more you explore, the more you question whether or not it was worth it to believe so strongly in the things that you did and their actual validity. The world changes from simple claim warrant impact to an infinite sea of reality. I think this was historically the reason for the rise of nihilism – the traditional forms of meaning and truth did not work, so people abandoned the pursuit entirely.

You speak of no longer seeking to "think outside the box", I think it's more that you don't see the meaning in any box any person points out. You've seen so many people claim so many different ideologies that claim to be outside of "the" box, you don't believe in it anymore – especially if you've looked into it deeper, and came to the conclusion that every box everyone talks about is fundamentally different from every other. I don't think you've abandoned reason/logic/etc. Just… feeling? Love? The ephemeral thing that surrealists/idealists/optimists/whateverthey'recalled say binds all things together.

I don't know, this analysis might be really off. It's more or less an extrapolation from what I remember about myself, and you might be completely different. I think I've always been a more emotional guy (i.e. things are based on emotion) and that all this intellectual and logic and reason stuff was just something that came to me due to my upbringing (Chinese immigrant parents to America). Those things have always affected me more.

But my intellectual analysis (might be ex-post facto) of why I still hold meaning is this: Even though there's an infinite amount of possible beliefs out there and an infinite possible combination of experiences, there are two things to derive meaning from:

1) Whether or not *YOU* did it, and 2) whether or not those things are beneficial to humans. The first one I don't really know how to explain. It's basically what lovers who don't believe in "the perfect soul mate" believe. The second one requires a belief that humans have things in common, and thus the traditional method of meaning (based on objectivity) still works. I believe people like freedom with danger rather than captivity with benefits. I believe people want to live a better life and be happier. I believe people don't want to die. I believe everyone thinks they're doing the right thing. I believe there is a small percentage of the population that is willing to screw over others to get what they want, and that a smaller percentage just wants to screw over others because THAT IS what they want. And somehow (read: I can't remember) I derive anarchism from all this, but even when I was on this site as a vanilla socialist I still believed these things.

But yeah, you are, in a sense, abandoning logic. You abandon it because you have no driving force behind it anymore. I think it would be more productive to look at this in that way. It feels to me like you've put too much emphasis on what's being lost rather than why it's being lost.

Don't know if you like manga, but it would be a REALLY good read for you I think. THE MANLIEST MANGA IN EXISTENCE "Vinland Saga" A prince goes from being a sissy to being a man, and the chapters he learns it in really touch on the issue that's going on here. Start from http://www.mangafox.com... and go to http://www.mangafox.com.... http://www.mangafox.com... to http://www.mangafox.com... is a part later that finishes up on the above. They have God references but you can trade them out for whatever you believe or don't believe. I'm a diehard atheist and I was still REALLY moved by this section. (But it REALLY helps if you know a few things about Christianity) It's poetical though, not clear language. But I think its better that way :D

Chapter 40 is nice too, though it's not as strong in my opinion. Translate every instance of "warrior" into "debater" or "seeker of truth" or whatever you'd like to call it.

You should read the whole manga.

But like all powerful pieces of literature (I'm looking at you, PoeJoe), it requires a certain extent of understanding in certain concepts, and a certain mindset to understand, so while it looks like this great piece to me, it might look like just another romantic fluffy idealistic piece of crap to someone else.

I think you though, Kleptin, will understand it.


By "I think", I mean "I hope".

And by "I hope", I mean "It'd be really cool if you actually have the problem I'm talking about and have the prerequisites to understanding what I just posted, but it's cool if you don't too, because I had fun writing this post."

For those of you who are around my age or younger,
lol under 100? I think that's everybody.
do you have any strong or fervent philosophical beliefs?
Anarchism / Voluntarism / Emergentism. And this thing I don't know how to word in any way other than "Love, therefore I am". See the Vinland Saga link.
Do they manifest in your day-to-day life?
Mmmmhmm. AVE, at least. The love thing, not so much. It's a lot harder to implement, since I've only learned of it recently,and to really believe it (i.e. have integrity and act it) I have to overwrite almost all of the beliefs I've held prior to the advent.
Do they have any relevance to your long-term goals?
Yeah: becoming a man.
Can you see yourself having the influence of your philosophy 5 years from now? 10 years from now? 20 years from now? If so, how will they manifest?
I'll be a man. Not an "adult", which is simply euphemism for "self propelled slave". A man.

What is a man?

A "true warrior" – see chapter 40 of above, and the entire anime series "Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann".
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/2/2010 1:51:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The person who remains consistent with their beliefs through their whole life is a braindead idiot. That is a sign that you aren't evolving, learning, and thinking.

However, reverting back to old views isn't advancement either.

I personally have changed and refined my views as well as shed some beliefs.

I have grown to realise that the Illuminati isn't always nefarious and have good side. I also realize they're not to blame, but that we are to blame more than anyone. The conspiracy is more of a psychological war than an actual physical enslavement, though that is an aspect as well.

However, I will always remain to oppose any and all authority, and probably remain a Panarchist (with a few moderate views as well.)

Most recently my metaphysical philosophies have changed and advance quite a bit.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
philosphical
Posts: 1,643
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5/2/2010 2:03:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The person who remains consistent with their beliefs through their whole life is a braindead idiot. That is a sign that you aren't evolving, learning, and thinking.

I would have to dis-agree with this statement. Being firm is your beliefs, only means you have a resourceful amount of experience and informations about them. There is no such thing as a right or wrong belief, only opinions on them. So if for example you happen to stay content with your specific belief, that only means you have changed your opinion. If you have not changed your opinion, that would insinuate that a large amount of experience and personal input has gone into your belief, which doesn't make you an idiot, it just means you have a firm grasp of that specific knowledge, and it makes more sense to you than any other knowledge.

However, reverting back to old views isn't advancement either.

Changing views shouldn't be considered an advancement in the first place seeing as your simply getting a new grip at how things are. By reverting back to your old belief, you have seen fault with the new ordeal and have found more over bearing proof that contends with you, into the old belief.
Your mouths writing checks that your @ss can't cash!
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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5/2/2010 2:09:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
In the year I have been on DDO, my philosophical mindset has completely altered. Politically, I have switched from conservative all the way to liberal. Religiously, I'm questioning why I should follow one in the first place. I am realizing that life is exactly what you make it, and I am not making myself do much right now. I am in a time of deep thought about reality and feel that I have encountered a mental Purgatory. I now advocate solopsism and believe that perception and relativism fit my outlooks at the current moment.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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5/2/2010 2:13:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Btw, I have lost touch with who I used to be. I'd like to go back, but then I'd be at a state of ignorant ignorance. I am focused on being open-minded and non-judgmental. It's really tough not to jump to conclusions when I'm in a pissy mood, but I am working on it.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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5/2/2010 2:30:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 10:27:25 AM, Kleptin wrote:

For those of you who are around my age or younger, do you have any strong or fervent philosophical beliefs?

Yes. Most especially my religious beliefs.

Do they manifest in your day-to-day life?

Yes. My beliefs do tend to color how I see and respond to things.

Do they have any relevance to your long-term goals?

Yes.

Can you see yourself having the influence of your philosophy 5 years from now?

Yup.

10 years from now?

Yup.

20 years from now?

Yup.

If so, how will they manifest? If not, how do you think they will change?

I'm sure some particulars will change but I don't know which ones will.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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5/2/2010 2:31:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 2:09:51 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
I now advocate solopsism and believe that perception and relativism fit my outlooks at the current moment.

Lol.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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5/2/2010 2:43:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 2:31:41 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/2/2010 2:09:51 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
I now advocate solopsism and believe that perception and relativism fit my outlooks at the current moment.

Lol.

SAC I don't think you have full captured the meaning of Solipsism. Not to mention as a Christian... // .
'sup DDO -- july 2013
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
To those who think they will not change I will say that I hope you are wrong for your sake. For those who cling to ideals or beliefs for fear of change, and hope that all will remain as you want them to be, I will tell you that your future is limited. I know a few who refused to grow and they are sadly pathetic. The liberal ones who I remember so well are inept at managing their lives. I guess a few are able to live on the fringe and off the trust fund that their families have set up for them, and some others end up in academia insulated from reality. The rigid conservatives are rich but unhappy, chasing things that they think will make them happy. The atheist who refuses spiritual growth, well...that's for a different debate. It is the ones who are most flexible in their views and understand that life that find happiness and growth, it isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer. One learns more from failure and pain than any other lesson in life.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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5/2/2010 2:47:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
[...] It is the ones who are most flexible in their views and understand that life that find happiness and growth, it isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer. One learns more from failure and pain than any other lesson in life.

One can only learn when one fails :)
Pain is a subset.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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5/2/2010 2:51:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have changed since first joining this site. I have become more moderate in my left-wing beliefs and now believe in a mixed economy rather than pure socialism. However, I have also lost myself to the realm of authoritarianism.