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Live Debates--Anyone Interested?

bsh1
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11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would like, ideally, to do some live debates before I take a respite from debating (for my own sanity).

These debates would be in the following (largely LD) format:

6 - Aff Constructive (AC)
3 - Neg CX (1CX)
7 - Neg Constructive and First Rebuttal (NC/1NR)
3 - Aff CX (2CX)
4 - Aff First Rebuttal (1AR)
6 - Neg Second Rebuttal (2NR)
3 - Aff Second Rebuttal (2AR)

w/ 5 minutes of prep time to use at your discretion (upped it from 4 since I am rusty).

I would insist on a traditional LD format: (1) no kritiks or theory, (2) no severe spreading, (3) a value and a criterion must be offered or agreed upon--no non-V/C standards are allowed, and (4) no flex prep or other weirdness.

I would want both myself and my opponent to do this on a google hangout, which would then be saved to youtube, and which I would then post in a debate on DDO for people to vote on. In that debate, we would each also post transcripts of our constructive speeches.

I am interested in doing these topics:

- That the "right to be forgotten" from internet searches Ought to be a Civil Right. (Con)
- Justice requires the recognition of animal rights. (Pro)
- That multilateral international intervention in the political processes of other countries, for the purpose of halting human rights abuses, is justified. (Pro)

If you're interested, lemme know. You would need to be available to debate between now and Dec. 5th.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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11/17/2014 10:45:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'll also throw in a plug for two debates I want to do in a convention (non-live) format:

- Abortion is always Morally Permissible (Con)
- A less Harsh version of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk W=would have Substantially Increased the Central Power's chances of Winning WWI (Pro)
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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11/17/2014 11:04:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I was literally thinking today about how good live debating sounded.

At 11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:

- That the "right to be forgotten" from internet searches Ought to be a Civil Right. (Con)
- Justice requires the recognition of animal rights. (Pro)


I'll do either of these with you. Preference to the Animal rights one since I'm better prepared for that :P

Although you do drive a hard bargain with no Ks or spreading....
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
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11/17/2014 11:08:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/17/2014 11:04:16 PM, Zaradi wrote:
I was literally thinking today about how good live debating sounded.

At 11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:

- That the "right to be forgotten" from internet searches Ought to be a Civil Right. (Con)
- Justice requires the recognition of animal rights. (Pro)



I'll do either of these with you. Preference to the Animal rights one since I'm better prepared for that :P

Although you do drive a hard bargain with no Ks or spreading....

Lol...I would prefer to do RTBF, only because I think we're on more even ground there, preparedness-wise. When would you be up for a debate?

Hey, I'm a traditionalist. What can I say...?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/17/2014 11:11:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/17/2014 11:10:44 PM, Cermank wrote:
If this goes down, can I watch?

Sure thing :)
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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11/17/2014 11:18:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/17/2014 11:08:01 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2014 11:04:16 PM, Zaradi wrote:
I was literally thinking today about how good live debating sounded.

At 11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:

- That the "right to be forgotten" from internet searches Ought to be a Civil Right. (Con)
- Justice requires the recognition of animal rights. (Pro)



I'll do either of these with you. Preference to the Animal rights one since I'm better prepared for that :P

Although you do drive a hard bargain with no Ks or spreading....

Lol...I would prefer to do RTBF, only because I think we're on more even ground there, preparedness-wise. When would you be up for a debate?

Wednesday or Thursday literally any time. I have them off from work.

Hey, I'm a traditionalist. What can I say...?

"I'm sorry for not being a progressive debater and I promise I'll change." ?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/17/2014 11:21:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/17/2014 11:18:27 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 11/17/2014 11:08:01 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2014 11:04:16 PM, Zaradi wrote:
I was literally thinking today about how good live debating sounded.

At 11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:

- That the "right to be forgotten" from internet searches Ought to be a Civil Right. (Con)
- Justice requires the recognition of animal rights. (Pro)



I'll do either of these with you. Preference to the Animal rights one since I'm better prepared for that :P

Although you do drive a hard bargain with no Ks or spreading....

Lol...I would prefer to do RTBF, only because I think we're on more even ground there, preparedness-wise. When would you be up for a debate?

Wednesday or Thursday literally any time. I have them off from work.

Thursday, with a late start time (sometime between 11:00pm and 12:00pm EST) would work for me.

Hey, I'm a traditionalist. What can I say...?

"I'm sorry for not being a progressive debater and I promise I'll change." ?

Lol. No.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
UchihaMadara
Posts: 1,049
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11/17/2014 11:28:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
idk why everyone likes live debates so much... I would completely crash and burn without having the time to think that text debating affords me.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/17/2014 11:30:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/17/2014 11:28:18 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
idk why everyone likes live debates so much... I would completely crash and burn without having the time to think that text debating affords me.

It's nostalgia for the good old days...debate was, at one point, the most important thing in my life. I still miss the rush of a live debate...

But, it's not for everyone. I posted 2 non-live-debate topics I am interested in.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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11/17/2014 11:47:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would be willing to live debate any of the following topics:
- Captain Picard is a superior Starfleet officer to -insert other captain here-
- The Jedi Council is largely responsible for the fall of Anakin Skywalker
- It would be preferable to own a portal gun to a gravity gun
- Ben was a villain on Lost

Rules:
- no prep time
- no kinds of cases or values or whatever
- all bulllshit
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/17/2014 11:49:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/17/2014 11:47:38 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I would be willing to live debate any of the following topics:
- Captain Picard is a superior Starfleet officer to -insert other captain here-
- The Jedi Council is largely responsible for the fall of Anakin Skywalker
- It would be preferable to own a portal gun to a gravity gun
- Ben was a villain on Lost

Rules:
- no prep time
- no kinds of cases or values or whatever
- all bulllshit

I love the second topic, but, rofl, I think I'll pass.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/18/2014 12:02:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I would like, ideally, to do some live debates before I take a respite from debating (for my own sanity).

These debates would be in the following (largely LD) format:

6 - Aff Constructive (AC)
3 - Neg CX (1CX)
7 - Neg Constructive and First Rebuttal (NC/1NR)
3 - Aff CX (2CX)
4 - Aff First Rebuttal (1AR)
6 - Neg Second Rebuttal (2NR)
3 - Aff Second Rebuttal (2AR)

w/ 5 minutes of prep time to use at your discretion (upped it from 4 since I am rusty).

I would insist on a traditional LD format: (1) no kritiks or theory, (2) no severe spreading, (3) a value and a criterion must be offered or agreed upon--no non-V/C standards are allowed,

you lost me....

and (4) no flex prep or other weirdness.

I would want both myself and my opponent to do this on a google hangout, which would then be saved to youtube, and which I would then post in a debate on DDO for people to vote on. In that debate, we would each also post transcripts of our constructive speeches.

I am interested in doing these topics:

- That the "right to be forgotten" from internet searches Ought to be a Civil Right. (Con)
- Justice requires the recognition of animal rights. (Pro)
- That multilateral international intervention in the political processes of other countries, for the purpose of halting human rights abuses, is justified. (Pro)

If you're interested, lemme know. You would need to be available to debate between now and Dec. 5th.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/18/2014 12:05:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:02:39 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I would like, ideally, to do some live debates before I take a respite from debating (for my own sanity).

These debates would be in the following (largely LD) format:

6 - Aff Constructive (AC)
3 - Neg CX (1CX)
7 - Neg Constructive and First Rebuttal (NC/1NR)
3 - Aff CX (2CX)
4 - Aff First Rebuttal (1AR)
6 - Neg Second Rebuttal (2NR)
3 - Aff Second Rebuttal (2AR)

w/ 5 minutes of prep time to use at your discretion (upped it from 4 since I am rusty).

I would insist on a traditional LD format: (1) no kritiks or theory, (2) no severe spreading, (3) a value and a criterion must be offered or agreed upon--no non-V/C standards are allowed,

you lost me....

For example, "the vote should go to the funniest debater, because debates are meaningless expect to provide entertainment." In that case, humor is the standard. It's just a way of reemphasizing (1).
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/18/2014 12:05:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm interested in doing a live debate, but not LD style and not on any of the positions you left open on those particular topics. I don't think any of them are defensible against a good opponent. I find it hard to believe that the NFL chose them as topics, despite seeing my fair share of really dumb PF topics.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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11/18/2014 12:09:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/17/2014 11:21:42 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2014 11:18:27 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 11/17/2014 11:08:01 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2014 11:04:16 PM, Zaradi wrote:
I was literally thinking today about how good live debating sounded.

At 11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:

- That the "right to be forgotten" from internet searches Ought to be a Civil Right. (Con)
- Justice requires the recognition of animal rights. (Pro)



I'll do either of these with you. Preference to the Animal rights one since I'm better prepared for that :P

Although you do drive a hard bargain with no Ks or spreading....

Lol...I would prefer to do RTBF, only because I think we're on more even ground there, preparedness-wise. When would you be up for a debate?

Wednesday or Thursday literally any time. I have them off from work.

Thursday, with a late start time (sometime between 11:00pm and 12:00pm EST) would work for me.

You're going to try and kill me.
I work Friday morning at 6am.

Hey, I'm a traditionalist. What can I say...?

"I'm sorry for not being a progressive debater and I promise I'll change." ?

Lol. No.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/18/2014 12:10:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:05:34 AM, bluesteel wrote:
I'm interested in doing a live debate, but not LD style and not on any of the positions you left open on those particular topics. I don't think any of them are defensible against a good opponent. I find it hard to believe that the NFL chose them as topics, despite seeing my fair share of really dumb PF topics.

Okay. I think the current topic is defensible on both sides, and personally, my mind really is made up on it. I also think the third one I suggest is defensible.

I think the Organ Procurement topic really sucked though.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/18/2014 12:11:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:09:03 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 11/17/2014 11:21:42 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2014 11:18:27 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 11/17/2014 11:08:01 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2014 11:04:16 PM, Zaradi wrote:
I was literally thinking today about how good live debating sounded.

At 11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:

- That the "right to be forgotten" from internet searches Ought to be a Civil Right. (Con)
- Justice requires the recognition of animal rights. (Pro)



I'll do either of these with you. Preference to the Animal rights one since I'm better prepared for that :P

Although you do drive a hard bargain with no Ks or spreading....

Lol...I would prefer to do RTBF, only because I think we're on more even ground there, preparedness-wise. When would you be up for a debate?

Wednesday or Thursday literally any time. I have them off from work.

Thursday, with a late start time (sometime between 11:00pm and 12:00pm EST) would work for me.

You're going to try and kill me.
I work Friday morning at 6am.

Ouch...Um...I can't really do debates until that time of night though...How about on the weekend?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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11/18/2014 12:12:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:11:27 AM, bsh1 wrote:

Ouch...Um...I can't really do debates until that time of night though...How about on the weekend?

Not sure. After that morning shift I have the rest of Friday and Saturday off, but I'm not sure if I'm spending them at home or at my friends house.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/18/2014 12:13:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:12:12 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:11:27 AM, bsh1 wrote:

Ouch...Um...I can't really do debates until that time of night though...How about on the weekend?

Not sure. After that morning shift I have the rest of Friday and Saturday off, but I'm not sure if I'm spending them at home or at my friends house.

Okay. I'll prep, and if you're free, that's great. If not, it's not much skin off my nose. Deal?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/18/2014 12:13:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:05:17 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:02:39 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I would like, ideally, to do some live debates before I take a respite from debating (for my own sanity).

These debates would be in the following (largely LD) format:

6 - Aff Constructive (AC)
3 - Neg CX (1CX)
7 - Neg Constructive and First Rebuttal (NC/1NR)
3 - Aff CX (2CX)
4 - Aff First Rebuttal (1AR)
6 - Neg Second Rebuttal (2NR)
3 - Aff Second Rebuttal (2AR)

w/ 5 minutes of prep time to use at your discretion (upped it from 4 since I am rusty).

I would insist on a traditional LD format: (1) no kritiks or theory, (2) no severe spreading, (3) a value and a criterion must be offered or agreed upon--no non-V/C standards are allowed,

you lost me....

For example, "the vote should go to the funniest debater, because debates are meaningless expect to provide entertainment." In that case, humor is the standard. It's just a way of reemphasizing (1).

I mean you lost me as a potential opponent. I don't believe the VC model is worthwhile. I would probably offer a weighing mechanism or just concede your VC, but as a non-LD debater, I detest that particular formalism of LD. I think criterions in particular are silly. It makes you phrase your value in an artificial way so that your criterion essentially becomes the overall framework of the debate (i.e. so if I want to argue util was my framework, I have to do something artificial like saying my value is a squishy concept like "justice" and my criterion is util). I believe in Occam's Razor: explain your weighing mechanism in the simplest way possible. If that doesn't fit the VC model, then screw the VC.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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11/18/2014 12:14:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:13:49 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:05:17 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:02:39 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I would like, ideally, to do some live debates before I take a respite from debating (for my own sanity).

These debates would be in the following (largely LD) format:

6 - Aff Constructive (AC)
3 - Neg CX (1CX)
7 - Neg Constructive and First Rebuttal (NC/1NR)
3 - Aff CX (2CX)
4 - Aff First Rebuttal (1AR)
6 - Neg Second Rebuttal (2NR)
3 - Aff Second Rebuttal (2AR)

w/ 5 minutes of prep time to use at your discretion (upped it from 4 since I am rusty).

I would insist on a traditional LD format: (1) no kritiks or theory, (2) no severe spreading, (3) a value and a criterion must be offered or agreed upon--no non-V/C standards are allowed,

you lost me....

For example, "the vote should go to the funniest debater, because debates are meaningless expect to provide entertainment." In that case, humor is the standard. It's just a way of reemphasizing (1).

I mean you lost me as a potential opponent. I don't believe the VC model is worthwhile. I would probably offer a weighing mechanism or just concede your VC, but as a non-LD debater, I detest that particular formalism of LD. I think criterions in particular are silly. It makes you phrase your value in an artificial way so that your criterion essentially becomes the overall framework of the debate (i.e. so if I want to argue util was my framework, I have to do something artificial like saying my value is a squishy concept like "justice" and my criterion is util). I believe in Occam's Razor: explain your weighing mechanism in the simplest way possible. If that doesn't fit the VC model, then screw the VC.

THANK GOD SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS ME.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/18/2014 12:18:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:10:09 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:05:34 AM, bluesteel wrote:
I'm interested in doing a live debate, but not LD style and not on any of the positions you left open on those particular topics. I don't think any of them are defensible against a good opponent. I find it hard to believe that the NFL chose them as topics, despite seeing my fair share of really dumb PF topics.

Okay. I think the current topic is defensible on both sides, and personally, my mind really is made up on it. I also think the third one I suggest is defensible.

Elevating it to a civil right is silly imo. Should consumers demand that companies give them anonymity, sure. But a VPN accomplishes the same thing. It's hard to argue that it's unfair to have to pay $5 a month for the privilege of anonymous browsing since the internet isn't free and internet access isn't a civil right. Almost by definition, you can't have a right to browse the internet in a certain way when there is no right to browse the internet at all.


I think the Organ Procurement topic really sucked though.

It was stupid. Mandates choice is almost the exact same thing as presumed consent, is equally effective, and doesn't implicate the same moral problems involved in "presuming" consent from non-action.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bsh1
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11/18/2014 12:19:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:13:49 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:05:17 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:02:39 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I would like, ideally, to do some live debates before I take a respite from debating (for my own sanity).

These debates would be in the following (largely LD) format:

6 - Aff Constructive (AC)
3 - Neg CX (1CX)
7 - Neg Constructive and First Rebuttal (NC/1NR)
3 - Aff CX (2CX)
4 - Aff First Rebuttal (1AR)
6 - Neg Second Rebuttal (2NR)
3 - Aff Second Rebuttal (2AR)

w/ 5 minutes of prep time to use at your discretion (upped it from 4 since I am rusty).

I would insist on a traditional LD format: (1) no kritiks or theory, (2) no severe spreading, (3) a value and a criterion must be offered or agreed upon--no non-V/C standards are allowed,

you lost me....

For example, "the vote should go to the funniest debater, because debates are meaningless expect to provide entertainment." In that case, humor is the standard. It's just a way of reemphasizing (1).

I mean you lost me as a potential opponent. I don't believe the VC model is worthwhile. I would probably offer a weighing mechanism or just concede your VC, but as a non-LD debater, I detest that particular formalism of LD. I think criterions in particular are silly. It makes you phrase your value in an artificial way so that your criterion essentially becomes the overall framework of the debate (i.e. so if I want to argue util was my framework, I have to do something artificial like saying my value is a squishy concept like "justice" and my criterion is util). I believe in Occam's Razor: explain your weighing mechanism in the simplest way possible. If that doesn't fit the VC model, then screw the VC.

Ah, okay. I mean, agreeing to my framework is allowed. I did that all the time to get a time skew in my favor. I like the formulism of LD--I always found PF to be not formulaic enough...but I guess that's why there are multiple events. Everyone can choose the event that best fits them.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/18/2014 12:20:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:14:51 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:13:49 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:05:17 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:02:39 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I would like, ideally, to do some live debates before I take a respite from debating (for my own sanity).

These debates would be in the following (largely LD) format:

6 - Aff Constructive (AC)
3 - Neg CX (1CX)
7 - Neg Constructive and First Rebuttal (NC/1NR)
3 - Aff CX (2CX)
4 - Aff First Rebuttal (1AR)
6 - Neg Second Rebuttal (2NR)
3 - Aff Second Rebuttal (2AR)

w/ 5 minutes of prep time to use at your discretion (upped it from 4 since I am rusty).

I would insist on a traditional LD format: (1) no kritiks or theory, (2) no severe spreading, (3) a value and a criterion must be offered or agreed upon--no non-V/C standards are allowed,

you lost me....

For example, "the vote should go to the funniest debater, because debates are meaningless expect to provide entertainment." In that case, humor is the standard. It's just a way of reemphasizing (1).

I mean you lost me as a potential opponent. I don't believe the VC model is worthwhile. I would probably offer a weighing mechanism or just concede your VC, but as a non-LD debater, I detest that particular formalism of LD. I think criterions in particular are silly. It makes you phrase your value in an artificial way so that your criterion essentially becomes the overall framework of the debate (i.e. so if I want to argue util was my framework, I have to do something artificial like saying my value is a squishy concept like "justice" and my criterion is util). I believe in Occam's Razor: explain your weighing mechanism in the simplest way possible. If that doesn't fit the VC model, then screw the VC.

THANK GOD SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS ME.

<3
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/18/2014 12:24:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:19:41 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:13:49 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:05:17 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:02:39 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/17/2014 10:23:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I would like, ideally, to do some live debates before I take a respite from debating (for my own sanity).

These debates would be in the following (largely LD) format:

6 - Aff Constructive (AC)
3 - Neg CX (1CX)
7 - Neg Constructive and First Rebuttal (NC/1NR)
3 - Aff CX (2CX)
4 - Aff First Rebuttal (1AR)
6 - Neg Second Rebuttal (2NR)
3 - Aff Second Rebuttal (2AR)

w/ 5 minutes of prep time to use at your discretion (upped it from 4 since I am rusty).

I would insist on a traditional LD format: (1) no kritiks or theory, (2) no severe spreading, (3) a value and a criterion must be offered or agreed upon--no non-V/C standards are allowed,

you lost me....

For example, "the vote should go to the funniest debater, because debates are meaningless expect to provide entertainment." In that case, humor is the standard. It's just a way of reemphasizing (1).

I mean you lost me as a potential opponent. I don't believe the VC model is worthwhile. I would probably offer a weighing mechanism or just concede your VC, but as a non-LD debater, I detest that particular formalism of LD. I think criterions in particular are silly. It makes you phrase your value in an artificial way so that your criterion essentially becomes the overall framework of the debate (i.e. so if I want to argue util was my framework, I have to do something artificial like saying my value is a squishy concept like "justice" and my criterion is util). I believe in Occam's Razor: explain your weighing mechanism in the simplest way possible. If that doesn't fit the VC model, then screw the VC.

Ah, okay. I mean, agreeing to my framework is allowed.

I mean, I'm not allowed that luxury if your VC doesn't fit with my own case. Like if I were pro presumed consent and your VC was value = autonomy, criterion = consent, I obviously can't concede your VC and still win.

I did that all the time to get a time skew in my favor. I like the formulism of LD--I always found PF to be not formulaic enough...but I guess that's why there are multiple events. Everyone can choose the event that best fits them.

I suppose, but it's kind of silly that someone who has done policy and coached PF would be disadvantaged in LD because of unfamiliarity with the VC model. It's not that such a person is bad at debate, it's that you are imposing a completely false constraint that has nothing to do with debate ability.

The VC is a vestigial organ. It was created at a time in LD when debaters never used weighing mechanisms. It was a good training wheel to teach LD debaters to always have weighing mechanisms. But requiring training wheels after one has learned to ride a bike is absolutely silly.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/18/2014 12:25:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:18:55 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:10:09 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:05:34 AM, bluesteel wrote:
I'm interested in doing a live debate, but not LD style and not on any of the positions you left open on those particular topics. I don't think any of them are defensible against a good opponent. I find it hard to believe that the NFL chose them as topics, despite seeing my fair share of really dumb PF topics.

Okay. I think the current topic is defensible on both sides, and personally, my mind really is made up on it. I also think the third one I suggest is defensible.

Elevating it to a civil right is silly imo. Should consumers demand that companies give them anonymity, sure.

It's not necessarily an issue of anonymity. I don't necessarily wish to be anonymous on the internet, but if there is something about me that I want removed, I wanted to be able to demand its removal.

But a VPN accomplishes the same thing. It's hard to argue that it's unfair to have to pay $5 a month for the privilege of anonymous browsing since the internet isn't free and internet access isn't a civil right.

And what of people who don't use the internet, or who had content posted about them without their knowledge or consent?

Person X never or rarely uses the internet. A negative story is posted about him on the internet. Years later, he goes to get a job or to do something, and finds out this story is out there and hindering him from achieving his goals. Should he have to pay a fee for something he never or rarely uses? And even if he did, would you allow him to remove content he did not post if that content is true?

Almost by definition, you can't have a right to browse the internet in a certain way when there is no right to browse the internet at all.

But that's not what the issue about. It isn't about access to a browser, it's about what that browser displays.

I think the Organ Procurement topic really sucked though.

It was stupid. Mandates choice is almost the exact same thing as presumed consent, is equally effective, and doesn't implicate the same moral problems involved in "presuming" consent from non-action.

Agreed.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/18/2014 12:34:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:25:21 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:18:55 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:10:09 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:05:34 AM, bluesteel wrote:
I'm interested in doing a live debate, but not LD style and not on any of the positions you left open on those particular topics. I don't think any of them are defensible against a good opponent. I find it hard to believe that the NFL chose them as topics, despite seeing my fair share of really dumb PF topics.

Okay. I think the current topic is defensible on both sides, and personally, my mind really is made up on it. I also think the third one I suggest is defensible.

Elevating it to a civil right is silly imo. Should consumers demand that companies give them anonymity, sure.

It's not necessarily an issue of anonymity. I don't necessarily wish to be anonymous on the internet, but if there is something about me that I want removed, I wanted to be able to demand its removal.

I admit, I didn't really know what the topic was about until your post. It's not immediately apparent what the "right to be forgotten" is. I had assumed it meant having your literal search history forgotten by Google's servers.


But a VPN accomplishes the same thing. It's hard to argue that it's unfair to have to pay $5 a month for the privilege of anonymous browsing since the internet isn't free and internet access isn't a civil right.

And what of people who don't use the internet, or who had content posted about them without their knowledge or consent?

Person X never or rarely uses the internet. A negative story is posted about him on the internet. Years later, he goes to get a job or to do something, and finds out this story is out there and hindering him from achieving his goals. Should he have to pay a fee for something he never or rarely uses? And even if he did, would you allow him to remove content he did not post if that content is true?

Presumably, the right to be forgotten only applies to content you post. If it applies to the content of others, it implicates free speech issues. Can a politician have unfavorable articles about him or her removed under the "right to be forgotten"? Presumably not.

I don't know. We seem to be arguing the same side. Or maybe we're not. I presume Pro would argue that the definition does not include other people's content and Con would argue it does. Which makes this a semantics debate of the worst form. I think the Pro definition would have to win though. Otherwise, the topic is really dumb. You can't force Pro to endorse the view that people have a civil right to have anything removed from the internet they don't like, when the same right doesn't apply to content in print or television news media.


Almost by definition, you can't have a right to browse the internet in a certain way when there is no right to browse the internet at all.

But that's not what the issue about. It isn't about access to a browser, it's about what that browser displays.

It's not even about having the URL deleted, it's about having Google forget the URL and its content exists. And presumably only the content owner can invoke the right.

And if that's the case, the content owner assumes the risk of the content never being able to be removed because he or she posted it. Even if Google forgot the content, web archiving sites like the Waybackmachine would still have a copy of the webpage.

It's just a dumb topic.


I think the Organ Procurement topic really sucked though.

It was stupid. Mandates choice is almost the exact same thing as presumed consent, is equally effective, and doesn't implicate the same moral problems involved in "presuming" consent from non-action.

Agreed.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/18/2014 12:37:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:25:21 AM, bsh1 wrote:


I'd consider debating you on whether the right to be forgotten topic is a dumb topic.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/18/2014 12:41:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 12:34:42 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:25:21 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 12:18:55 AM, bluesteel wrote:
Elevating it to a civil right is silly imo. Should consumers demand that companies give them anonymity, sure.

It's not necessarily an issue of anonymity. I don't necessarily wish to be anonymous on the internet, but if there is something about me that I want removed, I wanted to be able to demand its removal.

I admit, I didn't really know what the topic was about until your post. It's not immediately apparent what the "right to be forgotten" is. I had assumed it meant having your literal search history forgotten by Google's servers.

The ECHR defines it thusly: "individuals have the right--under certain conditions--to ask search engines to remove links with personal information about them. This applies where the information is inaccurate, inadequate, irrelevant or excessive for the purposes of the data processing."

But a VPN accomplishes the same thing. It's hard to argue that it's unfair to have to pay $5 a month for the privilege of anonymous browsing since the internet isn't free and internet access isn't a civil right.

And what of people who don't use the internet, or who had content posted about them without their knowledge or consent?

Person X never or rarely uses the internet. A negative story is posted about him on the internet. Years later, he goes to get a job or to do something, and finds out this story is out there and hindering him from achieving his goals. Should he have to pay a fee for something he never or rarely uses? And even if he did, would you allow him to remove content he did not post if that content is true?

Presumably, the right to be forgotten only applies to content you post. If it applies to the content of others, it implicates free speech issues. Can a politician have unfavorable articles about him or her removed under the "right to be forgotten"? Presumably not.

No, it applies to any information about you, so it does raise free speech issues. I think that information about politicians doesn't meet the irrelevancy criteria put forth by the ECHR, so I don't think that should be excluded. Obviously, and as with all rights, Courts will have to balance and more clearly define the right.

The RTBF will never be legal here, due to First Amendment issues, but I support it. I think with the ever-increasing power and pervasiveness of the internet, something has got to be done to tackle data permanence.

I don't know. We seem to be arguing the same side. Or maybe we're not. I presume Pro would argue that the definition does not include other people's content and Con would argue it does. Which makes this a semantics debate of the worst form. I think the Pro definition would have to win though. Otherwise, the topic is really dumb. You can't force Pro to endorse the view that people have a civil right to have anything removed from the internet they don't like, when the same right doesn't apply to content in print or television news media.

Every single debater and commentator I have seen or read on this issue agrees that it applies to content post about you by others.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...