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The REAL Thanksgiving story (disturbing)

kbub
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11/20/2014 6:00:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
--Warning: This true story may be disturbing to some audiences--

From: http://www.manataka.org...

THE REAL STORY OF THANKSGIVING

by Susan Bates

Most of us associate the holiday with happy Pilgrims and Indians sitting down to a big feast. And that did happen - once.

The story began in 1614 when a band of English explorers sailed home to England with a ship full of Patuxet Indians bound for slavery. They left behind smallpox which virtually wiped out those who had escaped. By the time the Pilgrims arrived in Massachusetts Bay they found only one living Patuxet Indian, a man named Squanto who had survived slavery in England and knew their language. He taught them to grow corn and to fish, and negotiated a peace treaty between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Nation. At the end of their first year, the Pilgrims held a great feast honoring Squanto and the Wampanoags.

But as word spread in England about the paradise to be found in the new world, religious zealots called Puritans began arriving by the boat load. Finding no fences around the land, they considered it to be in the public domain. Joined by other British settlers, they seized land, capturing strong young Natives for slaves and killing the rest. But the Pequot Nation had not agreed to the peace treaty Squanto had negotiated and they fought back. The Pequot War was one of the bloodiest Indian wars ever fought.

In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared "A Day Of Thanksgiving" because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.

Cheered by their "victory", the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.

Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of "thanksgiving" to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for 24 years.

The killings became more and more frenzied, with days of thanksgiving feasts being held after each successful massacre. George Washington finally suggested that only one day of Thanksgiving per year be set aside instead of celebrating each and every massacre. Later Abraham Lincoln decreed Thanksgiving Day to be a legal national holiday during the Civil War -- on the same day he ordered troops to march against the starving Sioux in Minnesota.

This story doesn't have quite the same fuzzy feelings associated with it as the one where the Indians and Pilgrims are all sitting down together at the big feast. But we need to learn our true history so it won't ever be repeated. Next Thanksgiving, when you gather with your loved ones to Thank God for all your blessings, think about those people who only wanted to live their lives and raise their families. They, also took time out to say "thank you" to Creator for all their blessings.

----

I had no idea that every Thanksgiving celebrated a massacre. I don't know about you, but I felt sick to my stomach reading that aloud. I also felt angry at everyone--I felt like everyone was lying to me about what Thanksgiving was about.

I'm at a loss for words.
mishapqueen
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11/20/2014 6:06:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:00:36 PM, kbub wrote:
--Warning: This true story may be disturbing to some audiences--

From: http://www.manataka.org...

THE REAL STORY OF THANKSGIVING

by Susan Bates

Most of us associate the holiday with happy Pilgrims and Indians sitting down to a big feast. And that did happen - once.

The story began in 1614 when a band of English explorers sailed home to England with a ship full of Patuxet Indians bound for slavery. They left behind smallpox which virtually wiped out those who had escaped. By the time the Pilgrims arrived in Massachusetts Bay they found only one living Patuxet Indian, a man named Squanto who had survived slavery in England and knew their language. He taught them to grow corn and to fish, and negotiated a peace treaty between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Nation. At the end of their first year, the Pilgrims held a great feast honoring Squanto and the Wampanoags.

But as word spread in England about the paradise to be found in the new world, religious zealots called Puritans began arriving by the boat load. Finding no fences around the land, they considered it to be in the public domain. Joined by other British settlers, they seized land, capturing strong young Natives for slaves and killing the rest. But the Pequot Nation had not agreed to the peace treaty Squanto had negotiated and they fought back. The Pequot War was one of the bloodiest Indian wars ever fought.

In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared "A Day Of Thanksgiving" because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.

Cheered by their "victory", the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.

Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of "thanksgiving" to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for 24 years.

The killings became more and more frenzied, with days of thanksgiving feasts being held after each successful massacre. George Washington finally suggested that only one day of Thanksgiving per year be set aside instead of celebrating each and every massacre. Later Abraham Lincoln decreed Thanksgiving Day to be a legal national holiday during the Civil War -- on the same day he ordered troops to march against the starving Sioux in Minnesota.

This story doesn't have quite the same fuzzy feelings associated with it as the one where the Indians and Pilgrims are all sitting down together at the big feast. But we need to learn our true history so it won't ever be repeated. Next Thanksgiving, when you gather with your loved ones to Thank God for all your blessings, think about those people who only wanted to live their lives and raise their families. They, also took time out to say "thank you" to Creator for all their blessings.

----

I had no idea that every Thanksgiving celebrated a massacre. I don't know about you, but I felt sick to my stomach reading that aloud. I also felt angry at everyone--I felt like everyone was lying to me about what Thanksgiving was about.


I'm at a loss for words.

How do we know this is true?
You cannot choose whether or not you will live by rules, but you can choose which rules you will live by. --Me

"I was wrong. Squirrels are objectively superior to bunnies in every conceivable dimension."
--Joey

"Silence is golden, duct tape is silver" --PetersSmith

Nunc aut Numquam
kbub
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11/20/2014 6:20:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:06:18 PM, mishapqueen wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:00:36 PM, kbub wrote:
--Warning: This true story may be disturbing to some audiences--

From: http://www.manataka.org...

THE REAL STORY OF THANKSGIVING

by Susan Bates

Most of us associate the holiday with happy Pilgrims and Indians sitting down to a big feast. And that did happen - once.

The story began in 1614 when a band of English explorers sailed home to England with a ship full of Patuxet Indians bound for slavery. They left behind smallpox which virtually wiped out those who had escaped. By the time the Pilgrims arrived in Massachusetts Bay they found only one living Patuxet Indian, a man named Squanto who had survived slavery in England and knew their language. He taught them to grow corn and to fish, and negotiated a peace treaty between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Nation. At the end of their first year, the Pilgrims held a great feast honoring Squanto and the Wampanoags.

But as word spread in England about the paradise to be found in the new world, religious zealots called Puritans began arriving by the boat load. Finding no fences around the land, they considered it to be in the public domain. Joined by other British settlers, they seized land, capturing strong young Natives for slaves and killing the rest. But the Pequot Nation had not agreed to the peace treaty Squanto had negotiated and they fought back. The Pequot War was one of the bloodiest Indian wars ever fought.

In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared "A Day Of Thanksgiving" because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.

Cheered by their "victory", the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.

Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of "thanksgiving" to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for 24 years.

The killings became more and more frenzied, with days of thanksgiving feasts being held after each successful massacre. George Washington finally suggested that only one day of Thanksgiving per year be set aside instead of celebrating each and every massacre. Later Abraham Lincoln decreed Thanksgiving Day to be a legal national holiday during the Civil War -- on the same day he ordered troops to march against the starving Sioux in Minnesota.

This story doesn't have quite the same fuzzy feelings associated with it as the one where the Indians and Pilgrims are all sitting down together at the big feast. But we need to learn our true history so it won't ever be repeated. Next Thanksgiving, when you gather with your loved ones to Thank God for all your blessings, think about those people who only wanted to live their lives and raise their families. They, also took time out to say "thank you" to Creator for all their blessings.

----

I had no idea that every Thanksgiving celebrated a massacre. I don't know about you, but I felt sick to my stomach reading that aloud. I also felt angry at everyone--I felt like everyone was lying to me about what Thanksgiving was about.


I'm at a loss for words.

How do we know this is true?

Still working on it. I can't say for sure to what extent these parts of the story are true. From what I'm reading from other sources, the "original story of thanksgiving" are hard to say.

The massacre definitely occured though. It's called the Mystic Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org...

This source confirms the Thanksgiving Day the day after the massacre:

"The Governor of Plymouth, William Bradford, further elaborates

'Those that escaped the fire were slain with the sword; some hewed to pieces, others run through with their rapiers, so that they were quickly dispatched and very few escaped. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fire"horrible was the stink and scent thereof, but the victory seemed a sweet sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them.'

"Perhaps most disturbingly, it is strongly argued by many historians that the Pequot Massacre led to the "Thanksgiving" festivities. The day after the massacre, the aforementioned Governor Massachusetts Bay Colony declared: "A day of Thanksgiving, thanking God that they had eliminated over 700 men, women and children." It was signed into law that, "This day forth shall be a day of celebration and thanksgiving for subduing the Pequots."

https://brokenmystic.wordpress.com...
http://www.dailykos.com...#
mishapqueen
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11/20/2014 6:22:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:20:52 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:06:18 PM, mishapqueen wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:00:36 PM, kbub wrote:
--Warning: This true story may be disturbing to some audiences--

From: http://www.manataka.org...

THE REAL STORY OF THANKSGIVING

by Susan Bates

Most of us associate the holiday with happy Pilgrims and Indians sitting down to a big feast. And that did happen - once.

The story began in 1614 when a band of English explorers sailed home to England with a ship full of Patuxet Indians bound for slavery. They left behind smallpox which virtually wiped out those who had escaped. By the time the Pilgrims arrived in Massachusetts Bay they found only one living Patuxet Indian, a man named Squanto who had survived slavery in England and knew their language. He taught them to grow corn and to fish, and negotiated a peace treaty between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Nation. At the end of their first year, the Pilgrims held a great feast honoring Squanto and the Wampanoags.

But as word spread in England about the paradise to be found in the new world, religious zealots called Puritans began arriving by the boat load. Finding no fences around the land, they considered it to be in the public domain. Joined by other British settlers, they seized land, capturing strong young Natives for slaves and killing the rest. But the Pequot Nation had not agreed to the peace treaty Squanto had negotiated and they fought back. The Pequot War was one of the bloodiest Indian wars ever fought.

In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared "A Day Of Thanksgiving" because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.

Cheered by their "victory", the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.

Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of "thanksgiving" to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for 24 years.

The killings became more and more frenzied, with days of thanksgiving feasts being held after each successful massacre. George Washington finally suggested that only one day of Thanksgiving per year be set aside instead of celebrating each and every massacre. Later Abraham Lincoln decreed Thanksgiving Day to be a legal national holiday during the Civil War -- on the same day he ordered troops to march against the starving Sioux in Minnesota.

This story doesn't have quite the same fuzzy feelings associated with it as the one where the Indians and Pilgrims are all sitting down together at the big feast. But we need to learn our true history so it won't ever be repeated. Next Thanksgiving, when you gather with your loved ones to Thank God for all your blessings, think about those people who only wanted to live their lives and raise their families. They, also took time out to say "thank you" to Creator for all their blessings.

----

I had no idea that every Thanksgiving celebrated a massacre. I don't know about you, but I felt sick to my stomach reading that aloud. I also felt angry at everyone--I felt like everyone was lying to me about what Thanksgiving was about.


I'm at a loss for words.

How do we know this is true?

Still working on it. I can't say for sure to what extent these parts of the story are true. From what I'm reading from other sources, the "original story of thanksgiving" are hard to say.

The massacre definitely occured though. It's called the Mystic Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org...

This source confirms the Thanksgiving Day the day after the massacre:

"The Governor of Plymouth, William Bradford, further elaborates

'Those that escaped the fire were slain with the sword; some hewed to pieces, others run through with their rapiers, so that they were quickly dispatched and very few escaped. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fire"horrible was the stink and scent thereof, but the victory seemed a sweet sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them.'

"Perhaps most disturbingly, it is strongly argued by many historians that the Pequot Massacre led to the "Thanksgiving" festivities. The day after the massacre, the aforementioned Governor Massachusetts Bay Colony declared: "A day of Thanksgiving, thanking God that they had eliminated over 700 men, women and children." It was signed into law that, "This day forth shall be a day of celebration and thanksgiving for subduing the Pequots."

https://brokenmystic.wordpress.com...
http://www.dailykos.com...#

Interesting. What was the context of that quote?
You cannot choose whether or not you will live by rules, but you can choose which rules you will live by. --Me

"I was wrong. Squirrels are objectively superior to bunnies in every conceivable dimension."
--Joey

"Silence is golden, duct tape is silver" --PetersSmith

Nunc aut Numquam
ESocialBookworm
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11/20/2014 6:22:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:05:51 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
How do we know that this is the "real" story?

Kbub said it. Thus it is real.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

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In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

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MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
kbub
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11/20/2014 6:22:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:05:51 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
How do we know that this is the "real" story?

It seems like all of these facts occurred. Whether this is the inspiration for the First Thanksgiving seems to be debated, but all in all it seems there is enough evidence to really hate Thanksgiving.


The massacre definitely occurred. It's called the Mystic Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org...

These source confirms the Thanksgiving Day the day after the massacre:

"The Governor of Plymouth, William Bradford, further elaborates

'Those that escaped the fire were slain with the sword; some hewed to pieces, others run through with their rapiers, so that they were quickly dispatched and very few escaped. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fire"horrible was the stink and scent thereof, but the victory seemed a sweet sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them.'

"Perhaps most disturbingly, it is strongly argued by many historians that the Pequot Massacre led to the "Thanksgiving" festivities. The day after the massacre, the aforementioned Governor Massachusetts Bay Colony declared: "A day of Thanksgiving, thanking God that they had eliminated over 700 men, women and children." It was signed into law that, "This day forth shall be a day of celebration and thanksgiving for subduing the Pequots."

https://brokenmystic.wordpress.com...
http://www.dailykos.com...#
kbub
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11/20/2014 6:24:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:22:26 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:05:51 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
How do we know that this is the "real" story?

Kbub said it. Thus it is real.

I appreciate your confidence in me, but I am only mostly omniscient. :)

I am doing some research though to confirm. I'll give you an update.
thett3
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11/20/2014 6:25:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:22:53 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:05:51 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
How do we know that this is the "real" story?

It seems like all of these facts occurred. Whether this is the inspiration for the First Thanksgiving seems to be debated, but all in all it seems there is enough evidence to really hate Thanksgiving.

That's pretty dumb. What Thanksgiving is now is a fun time for family to get together, eat, and consider all the blessings they have. To hate that because it's origins *possibly* came from a brutal incident in a brutal world nearly 400 years ago just doesn't make sense.


The massacre definitely occurred. It's called the Mystic Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org...

These source confirms the Thanksgiving Day the day after the massacre:

"The Governor of Plymouth, William Bradford, further elaborates

'Those that escaped the fire were slain with the sword; some hewed to pieces, others run through with their rapiers, so that they were quickly dispatched and very few escaped. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fire"horrible was the stink and scent thereof, but the victory seemed a sweet sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them.'

"Perhaps most disturbingly, it is strongly argued by many historians that the Pequot Massacre led to the "Thanksgiving" festivities. The day after the massacre, the aforementioned Governor Massachusetts Bay Colony declared: "A day of Thanksgiving, thanking God that they had eliminated over 700 men, women and children." It was signed into law that, "This day forth shall be a day of celebration and thanksgiving for subduing the Pequots."

https://brokenmystic.wordpress.com...
http://www.dailykos.com...#
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Khaos_Mage
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11/20/2014 6:36:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:05:51 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
How do we know that this is the "real" story?

Cuz it was on the internet.
They can't post it unless it's true.
My work here is, finally, done.
ESocialBookworm
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11/20/2014 6:37:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:36:34 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:05:51 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
How do we know that this is the "real" story?

Cuz it was on the internet.
They can't post it unless it's true.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
UchihaMadara
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11/20/2014 6:38:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:22:53 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:05:51 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
How do we know that this is the "real" story?

It seems like all of these facts occurred. Whether this is the inspiration for the First Thanksgiving seems to be debated, but all in all it seems there is enough evidence to really hate Thanksgiving.

Even if the story is true, there is no reason to "hate Thanksgiving" for it. Obviously, the reason that people celebrate the holiday in modern times has changed substantially, so the old reasons are irrelevant. Especially not since the story is so obscure that not even native Americans seem to know about it.
kbub
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11/20/2014 6:39:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:25:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:22:53 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:05:51 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
How do we know that this is the "real" story?

It seems like all of these facts occurred. Whether this is the inspiration for the First Thanksgiving seems to be debated, but all in all it seems there is enough evidence to really hate Thanksgiving.

That's pretty dumb. What Thanksgiving is now is a fun time for family to get together, eat, and consider all the blessings they have. To hate that because it's origins *possibly* came from a brutal incident in a brutal world nearly 400 years ago just doesn't make sense.

I hate to spoil your holiday with truth, but I think it's important. The United States benefited from the exploitation of Native Americans since the beginning. I personally would like to know what it is that I'm celebrating.

"Most Americans believe Thanksgiving was this wonderful dinner and harvest celebration. The truth is the "Thanksgiving dinner" was invented both to instill a false pride in Americans and to cover up the massacre."
http://www.republicoflakotah.com...

Now, the vision you've been told about the First Thanksgiving is definitely a lie. If you are thinking that it was a religious event, that was a lie according to most historians. They wouldn't have been invited, because they were associated with the Devil.

The original feast was purely about the peace treaty proposition. The peace treaty proposition that, when refused, led to the massacre.

Here's some more evidence anyway.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://www.republicoflakotah.com...

"William Bradford, in his famous History of the Plymouth Plantation, celebrated the Pequot massacre:

'Those that scraped the fire were slaine with the sword; some hewed to peeces, others rune throw with their rapiers, so as they were quickly dispatchte, and very few escapted. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fyer, and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stincke and sente there of, but the victory seemed a sweete sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them, thus to inclose their enemise in their hands, and give them so speedy a victory over so proud and insulting an enimie.'"



The massacre definitely occurred. It's called the Mystic Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org...

These source confirms the Thanksgiving Day the day after the massacre:

"The Governor of Plymouth, William Bradford, further elaborates

'Those that escaped the fire were slain with the sword; some hewed to pieces, others run through with their rapiers, so that they were quickly dispatched and very few escaped. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fire"horrible was the stink and scent thereof, but the victory seemed a sweet sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them.'

"Perhaps most disturbingly, it is strongly argued by many historians that the Pequot Massacre led to the "Thanksgiving" festivities. The day after the massacre, the aforementioned Governor Massachusetts Bay Colony declared: "A day of Thanksgiving, thanking God that they had eliminated over 700 men, women and children." It was signed into law that, "This day forth shall be a day of celebration and thanksgiving for subduing the Pequots."

https://brokenmystic.wordpress.com...
http://www.dailykos.com...#
Khaos_Mage
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11/20/2014 6:39:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:00:36 PM, kbub wrote:
--Warning: This true story may be disturbing to some audiences--

From: http://www.manataka.org...

THE REAL STORY OF THANKSGIVING

by Susan Bates

Most of us associate the holiday with happy Pilgrims and Indians sitting down to a big feast. And that did happen - once.

The story began in 1614 when a band of English explorers sailed home to England with a ship full of Patuxet Indians bound for slavery.

See, I'm going to stop this right here.
That is not what the holiday represents, and you can't start the story with a different tribe.
The tribe involved in the "first thanksgiving" were Wampanoag.
Different tribe, probably same fate, not necessarily the same horrors.
My work here is, finally, done.
thett3
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11/20/2014 6:41:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:39:07 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:25:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:22:53 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:05:51 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
How do we know that this is the "real" story?

It seems like all of these facts occurred. Whether this is the inspiration for the First Thanksgiving seems to be debated, but all in all it seems there is enough evidence to really hate Thanksgiving.

That's pretty dumb. What Thanksgiving is now is a fun time for family to get together, eat, and consider all the blessings they have. To hate that because it's origins *possibly* came from a brutal incident in a brutal world nearly 400 years ago just doesn't make sense.

I hate to spoil your holiday with truth, but I think it's important. The United States benefited from the exploitation of Native Americans since the beginning. I personally would like to know what it is that I'm celebrating.

There's no need to strawman me. It's important to know the atrocities that have occurred in the past, yes. But why hate something *good* now, because of something bad that happened in the past? I'm sure the Indians are extremely thankful for your noble sacrifice.

"Most Americans believe Thanksgiving was this wonderful dinner and harvest celebration. The truth is the "Thanksgiving dinner" was invented both to instill a false pride in Americans and to cover up the massacre."
http://www.republicoflakotah.com...


Now, the vision you've been told about the First Thanksgiving is definitely a lie. If you are thinking that it was a religious event, that was a lie according to most historians. They wouldn't have been invited, because they were associated with the Devil.

The original feast was purely about the peace treaty proposition. The peace treaty proposition that, when refused, led to the massacre.

Here's some more evidence anyway.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://www.republicoflakotah.com...

"William Bradford, in his famous History of the Plymouth Plantation, celebrated the Pequot massacre:

'Those that scraped the fire were slaine with the sword; some hewed to peeces, others rune throw with their rapiers, so as they were quickly dispatchte, and very few escapted. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fyer, and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stincke and sente there of, but the victory seemed a sweete sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them, thus to inclose their enemise in their hands, and give them so speedy a victory over so proud and insulting an enimie.'"







The massacre definitely occurred. It's called the Mystic Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org...

These source confirms the Thanksgiving Day the day after the massacre:

"The Governor of Plymouth, William Bradford, further elaborates

'Those that escaped the fire were slain with the sword; some hewed to pieces, others run through with their rapiers, so that they were quickly dispatched and very few escaped. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fire"horrible was the stink and scent thereof, but the victory seemed a sweet sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them.'

"Perhaps most disturbingly, it is strongly argued by many historians that the Pequot Massacre led to the "Thanksgiving" festivities. The day after the massacre, the aforementioned Governor Massachusetts Bay Colony declared: "A day of Thanksgiving, thanking God that they had eliminated over 700 men, women and children." It was signed into law that, "This day forth shall be a day of celebration and thanksgiving for subduing the Pequots."

https://brokenmystic.wordpress.com...
http://www.dailykos.com...#
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
kbub
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11/20/2014 6:45:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:38:16 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:22:53 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:05:51 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
How do we know that this is the "real" story?

It seems like all of these facts occurred. Whether this is the inspiration for the First Thanksgiving seems to be debated, but all in all it seems there is enough evidence to really hate Thanksgiving.

Even if the story is true, there is no reason to "hate Thanksgiving" for it. Obviously, the reason that people celebrate the holiday in modern times has changed substantially, so the old reasons are irrelevant. Especially not since the story is so obscure that not even native Americans seem to know about it.

What do you mean?

Day of mourning:
http://massmoments.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://americanindiansource.com...

There are a lot of more reasons to care, but I'll have to talk about them after I'm further in my debate with you ;)
Vox_Veritas
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11/20/2014 6:49:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:00:36 PM, kbub wrote:
--Warning: This true story may be disturbing to some audiences--

From: http://www.manataka.org...

THE REAL STORY OF THANKSGIVING

by Susan Bates

Most of us associate the holiday with happy Pilgrims and Indians sitting down to a big feast. And that did happen - once.

The story began in 1614 when a band of English explorers sailed home to England with a ship full of Patuxet Indians bound for slavery. They left behind smallpox which virtually wiped out those who had escaped. By the time the Pilgrims arrived in Massachusetts Bay they found only one living Patuxet Indian, a man named Squanto who had survived slavery in England and knew their language. He taught them to grow corn and to fish, and negotiated a peace treaty between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Nation. At the end of their first year, the Pilgrims held a great feast honoring Squanto and the Wampanoags.

But as word spread in England about the paradise to be found in the new world, religious zealots called Puritans began arriving by the boat load. Finding no fences around the land, they considered it to be in the public domain. Joined by other British settlers, they seized land, capturing strong young Natives for slaves and killing the rest. But the Pequot Nation had not agreed to the peace treaty Squanto had negotiated and they fought back. The Pequot War was one of the bloodiest Indian wars ever fought.

In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared "A Day Of Thanksgiving" because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.

Cheered by their "victory", the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.

Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of "thanksgiving" to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for 24 years.

The killings became more and more frenzied, with days of thanksgiving feasts being held after each successful massacre. George Washington finally suggested that only one day of Thanksgiving per year be set aside instead of celebrating each and every massacre. Later Abraham Lincoln decreed Thanksgiving Day to be a legal national holiday during the Civil War -- on the same day he ordered troops to march against the starving Sioux in Minnesota.

This story doesn't have quite the same fuzzy feelings associated with it as the one where the Indians and Pilgrims are all sitting down together at the big feast. But we need to learn our true history so it won't ever be repeated. Next Thanksgiving, when you gather with your loved ones to Thank God for all your blessings, think about those people who only wanted to live their lives and raise their families. They, also took time out to say "thank you" to Creator for all their blessings.

----

I had no idea that every Thanksgiving celebrated a massacre. I don't know about you, but I felt sick to my stomach reading that aloud. I also felt angry at everyone--I felt like everyone was lying to me about what Thanksgiving was about.


I'm at a loss for words.

And so...what, exactly?
Thanksgiving is simply what the name implies: Thanksgiving. The more gruesome aspects behind its history shouldn't ruin the meaning of the holiday itself.
For instance, in Ancient Israel they celebrated their deliverance from Egypt. They never really thought about the fact that many, many Egyptians died to secure their deliverance from slavery. They probably celebrated being given Israel as their home as well, but they probably didn't consider that another civilization had to be wiped out to make this possible.
We celebrate Independence from England, but lots of people died in the war that made this possible.
We honor Abraham Lincoln, but we don't really consider that HIS VERY ELECTION AS PRESIDENT is what caused the South to secede and start the Civil War.
You get my point?

During thanksgiving we don't celebrate a massacre. We celebrate an oppressed people arriving in a new land. Unfortunately, a massacre followed, but the massacre is not what we celebrate.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
kbub
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11/20/2014 6:56:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:41:12 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:39:07 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:25:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:22:53 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:05:51 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
How do we know that this is the "real" story?

It seems like all of these facts occurred. Whether this is the inspiration for the First Thanksgiving seems to be debated, but all in all it seems there is enough evidence to really hate Thanksgiving.

That's pretty dumb. What Thanksgiving is now is a fun time for family to get together, eat, and consider all the blessings they have. To hate that because it's origins *possibly* came from a brutal incident in a brutal world nearly 400 years ago just doesn't make sense.

I hate to spoil your holiday with truth, but I think it's important. The United States benefited from the exploitation of Native Americans since the beginning. I personally would like to know what it is that I'm celebrating.

There's no need to strawman me. It's important to know the atrocities that have occurred in the past, yes. But why hate something *good* now, because of something bad that happened in the past? I'm sure the Indians are extremely thankful for your noble sacrifice.

It is not good. It is a fairy tale. And many Indians are not happy with the lie.

http://massmoments.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org... http://americanindiansource.com...
http://www.angelfire.com...

And sure, being thankful and eating food with your family are important. But many Indians are living in abject poverty. Besides, let's not fool ourselves with the sacredness of Thanksgiving. The holiday is dedicated to overeating, killing birds, the death penalty (in the White House), the start of Christmas music, and shopping on Black Friday.

Let's also not forget that we celebrate Thanksgiving because Abraham Lincoln told us to.
The same Abraham Lincoln that committed the largest mass execution in US history, against the 38 Dakota.


"Most Americans believe Thanksgiving was this wonderful dinner and harvest celebration. The truth is the "Thanksgiving dinner" was invented both to instill a false pride in Americans and to cover up the massacre."
http://www.republicoflakotah.com...


Now, the vision you've been told about the First Thanksgiving is definitely a lie. If you are thinking that it was a religious event, that was a lie according to most historians. They wouldn't have been invited, because they were associated with the Devil.

The original feast was purely about the peace treaty proposition. The peace treaty proposition that, when refused, led to the massacre.

Here's some more evidence anyway.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://www.republicoflakotah.com...

"William Bradford, in his famous History of the Plymouth Plantation, celebrated the Pequot massacre:

'Those that scraped the fire were slaine with the sword; some hewed to peeces, others rune throw with their rapiers, so as they were quickly dispatchte, and very few escapted. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fyer, and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stincke and sente there of, but the victory seemed a sweete sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them, thus to inclose their enemise in their hands, and give them so speedy a victory over so proud and insulting an enimie.'"







The massacre definitely occurred. It's called the Mystic Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org...

These source confirms the Thanksgiving Day the day after the massacre:

"The Governor of Plymouth, William Bradford, further elaborates

'Those that escaped the fire were slain with the sword; some hewed to pieces, others run through with their rapiers, so that they were quickly dispatched and very few escaped. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fire"horrible was the stink and scent thereof, but the victory seemed a sweet sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them.'

"Perhaps most disturbingly, it is strongly argued by many historians that the Pequot Massacre led to the "Thanksgiving" festivities. The day after the massacre, the aforementioned Governor Massachusetts Bay Colony declared: "A day of Thanksgiving, thanking God that they had eliminated over 700 men, women and children." It was signed into law that, "This day forth shall be a day of celebration and thanksgiving for subduing the Pequots."

https://brokenmystic.wordpress.com...
http://www.dailykos.com...#
thett3
Posts: 14,339
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11/20/2014 7:00:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:56:55 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:41:12 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:39:07 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:25:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:22:53 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:05:51 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
How do we know that this is the "real" story?

It seems like all of these facts occurred. Whether this is the inspiration for the First Thanksgiving seems to be debated, but all in all it seems there is enough evidence to really hate Thanksgiving.

That's pretty dumb. What Thanksgiving is now is a fun time for family to get together, eat, and consider all the blessings they have. To hate that because it's origins *possibly* came from a brutal incident in a brutal world nearly 400 years ago just doesn't make sense.

I hate to spoil your holiday with truth, but I think it's important. The United States benefited from the exploitation of Native Americans since the beginning. I personally would like to know what it is that I'm celebrating.

There's no need to strawman me. It's important to know the atrocities that have occurred in the past, yes. But why hate something *good* now, because of something bad that happened in the past? I'm sure the Indians are extremely thankful for your noble sacrifice.

It is not good. It is a fairy tale. And many Indians are not happy with the lie.

So? Since when does a story have to be true to have a good effect?

http://massmoments.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org... http://americanindiansource.com...
http://www.angelfire.com...

And sure, being thankful and eating food with your family are important.

Glad you agree. So, what's the argument here again?

But many Indians are living in abject poverty.

and I'm sure celebrating all that I have to be thankful for affects their poverty, right? Oh wait, it doesn't? So this is completely irrelevant?

Besides, let's not fool ourselves with the sacredness of Thanksgiving. The holiday is dedicated to overeating, killing birds, the death penalty (in the White House), the start of Christmas music, and shopping on Black Friday.

Let's also not forget that we celebrate Thanksgiving because Abraham Lincoln told us to.
The same Abraham Lincoln that committed the largest mass execution in US history, against the 38 Dakota.


"Most Americans believe Thanksgiving was this wonderful dinner and harvest celebration. The truth is the "Thanksgiving dinner" was invented both to instill a false pride in Americans and to cover up the massacre."
http://www.republicoflakotah.com...


Now, the vision you've been told about the First Thanksgiving is definitely a lie. If you are thinking that it was a religious event, that was a lie according to most historians. They wouldn't have been invited, because they were associated with the Devil.

The original feast was purely about the peace treaty proposition. The peace treaty proposition that, when refused, led to the massacre.

Here's some more evidence anyway.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://www.republicoflakotah.com...

"William Bradford, in his famous History of the Plymouth Plantation, celebrated the Pequot massacre:

'Those that scraped the fire were slaine with the sword; some hewed to peeces, others rune throw with their rapiers, so as they were quickly dispatchte, and very few escapted. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fyer, and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stincke and sente there of, but the victory seemed a sweete sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them, thus to inclose their enemise in their hands, and give them so speedy a victory over so proud and insulting an enimie.'"







The massacre definitely occurred. It's called the Mystic Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org...

These source confirms the Thanksgiving Day the day after the massacre:

"The Governor of Plymouth, William Bradford, further elaborates

'Those that escaped the fire were slain with the sword; some hewed to pieces, others run through with their rapiers, so that they were quickly dispatched and very few escaped. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fire"horrible was the stink and scent thereof, but the victory seemed a sweet sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them.'

"Perhaps most disturbingly, it is strongly argued by many historians that the Pequot Massacre led to the "Thanksgiving" festivities. The day after the massacre, the aforementioned Governor Massachusetts Bay Colony declared: "A day of Thanksgiving, thanking God that they had eliminated over 700 men, women and children." It was signed into law that, "This day forth shall be a day of celebration and thanksgiving for subduing the Pequots."

https://brokenmystic.wordpress.com...
http://www.dailykos.com...#
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
kbub
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11/20/2014 7:05:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:49:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:00:36 PM, kbub wrote:
--Warning: This true story may be disturbing to some audiences--

From: http://www.manataka.org...

THE REAL STORY OF THANKSGIVING

by Susan Bates

Most of us associate the holiday with happy Pilgrims and Indians sitting down to a big feast. And that did happen - once.

The story began in 1614 when a band of English explorers sailed home to England with a ship full of Patuxet Indians bound for slavery. They left behind smallpox which virtually wiped out those who had escaped. By the time the Pilgrims arrived in Massachusetts Bay they found only one living Patuxet Indian, a man named Squanto who had survived slavery in England and knew their language. He taught them to grow corn and to fish, and negotiated a peace treaty between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Nation. At the end of their first year, the Pilgrims held a great feast honoring Squanto and the Wampanoags.

But as word spread in England about the paradise to be found in the new world, religious zealots called Puritans began arriving by the boat load. Finding no fences around the land, they considered it to be in the public domain. Joined by other British settlers, they seized land, capturing strong young Natives for slaves and killing the rest. But the Pequot Nation had not agreed to the peace treaty Squanto had negotiated and they fought back. The Pequot War was one of the bloodiest Indian wars ever fought.

In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared "A Day Of Thanksgiving" because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.

Cheered by their "victory", the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.

Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of "thanksgiving" to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for 24 years.

The killings became more and more frenzied, with days of thanksgiving feasts being held after each successful massacre. George Washington finally suggested that only one day of Thanksgiving per year be set aside instead of celebrating each and every massacre. Later Abraham Lincoln decreed Thanksgiving Day to be a legal national holiday during the Civil War -- on the same day he ordered troops to march against the starving Sioux in Minnesota.

This story doesn't have quite the same fuzzy feelings associated with it as the one where the Indians and Pilgrims are all sitting down together at the big feast. But we need to learn our true history so it won't ever be repeated. Next Thanksgiving, when you gather with your loved ones to Thank God for all your blessings, think about those people who only wanted to live their lives and raise their families. They, also took time out to say "thank you" to Creator for all their blessings.

----

I had no idea that every Thanksgiving celebrated a massacre. I don't know about you, but I felt sick to my stomach reading that aloud. I also felt angry at everyone--I felt like everyone was lying to me about what Thanksgiving was about.


I'm at a loss for words.

And so...what, exactly?
Thanksgiving is simply what the name implies: Thanksgiving. The more gruesome aspects behind its history shouldn't ruin the meaning of the holiday itself.
For instance, in Ancient Israel they celebrated their deliverance from Egypt. They never really thought about the fact that many, many Egyptians died to secure their deliverance from slavery. They probably celebrated being given Israel as their home as well, but they probably didn't consider that another civilization had to be wiped out to make this possible.
We celebrate Independence from England, but lots of people died in the war that made this possible.
We honor Abraham Lincoln, but we don't really consider that HIS VERY ELECTION AS PRESIDENT is what caused the South to secede and start the Civil War.
You get my point?

During thanksgiving we don't celebrate a massacre. We celebrate an oppressed people arriving in a new land. Unfortunately, a massacre followed, but the massacre is not what we celebrate.

I just thought people might be interested in learning the truth. I may choose to make Thanksgiving a day of mourning and rememberance. Like veteran's day. But I make no pretense at telling you what to do.

That being said, I think I do need to respond somewhat. The genocide didn't "unfortunately happen." It was committed by those Puritans you said you were celebrating. And they kept committing genocides. Abraham Lincoln was also terrible to Native Americans. He committed the largest mass execution in US history--toward the Dakota.
UchihaMadara
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11/20/2014 7:06:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:45:54 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:38:16 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:22:53 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:05:51 PM, UchihaMadara wrote:
How do we know that this is the "real" story?

It seems like all of these facts occurred. Whether this is the inspiration for the First Thanksgiving seems to be debated, but all in all it seems there is enough evidence to really hate Thanksgiving.

Even if the story is true, there is no reason to "hate Thanksgiving" for it. Obviously, the reason that people celebrate the holiday in modern times has changed substantially, so the old reasons are irrelevant. Especially not since the story is so obscure that not even native Americans seem to know about it.

What do you mean?

Day of mourning:
http://massmoments.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://americanindiansource.com...


Um, none of those sources imply that the natives are offended by our celebration of Thanksgiving... and they shouldn't be. The reasons we celebrate it now are completely unrelated to the reasons people may have celebrated it centuries ago.

There are a lot of more reasons to care, but I'll have to talk about them after I'm further in my debate with you ;)

Haha I'm writing my argument for that rn
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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11/20/2014 7:10:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:05:00 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:49:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:00:36 PM, kbub wrote:
--Warning: This true story may be disturbing to some audiences--

From: http://www.manataka.org...

THE REAL STORY OF THANKSGIVING

by Susan Bates

Most of us associate the holiday with happy Pilgrims and Indians sitting down to a big feast. And that did happen - once.

The story began in 1614 when a band of English explorers sailed home to England with a ship full of Patuxet Indians bound for slavery. They left behind smallpox which virtually wiped out those who had escaped. By the time the Pilgrims arrived in Massachusetts Bay they found only one living Patuxet Indian, a man named Squanto who had survived slavery in England and knew their language. He taught them to grow corn and to fish, and negotiated a peace treaty between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Nation. At the end of their first year, the Pilgrims held a great feast honoring Squanto and the Wampanoags.

But as word spread in England about the paradise to be found in the new world, religious zealots called Puritans began arriving by the boat load. Finding no fences around the land, they considered it to be in the public domain. Joined by other British settlers, they seized land, capturing strong young Natives for slaves and killing the rest. But the Pequot Nation had not agreed to the peace treaty Squanto had negotiated and they fought back. The Pequot War was one of the bloodiest Indian wars ever fought.

In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared "A Day Of Thanksgiving" because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.

Cheered by their "victory", the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.

Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of "thanksgiving" to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for 24 years.

The killings became more and more frenzied, with days of thanksgiving feasts being held after each successful massacre. George Washington finally suggested that only one day of Thanksgiving per year be set aside instead of celebrating each and every massacre. Later Abraham Lincoln decreed Thanksgiving Day to be a legal national holiday during the Civil War -- on the same day he ordered troops to march against the starving Sioux in Minnesota.

This story doesn't have quite the same fuzzy feelings associated with it as the one where the Indians and Pilgrims are all sitting down together at the big feast. But we need to learn our true history so it won't ever be repeated. Next Thanksgiving, when you gather with your loved ones to Thank God for all your blessings, think about those people who only wanted to live their lives and raise their families. They, also took time out to say "thank you" to Creator for all their blessings.

----

I had no idea that every Thanksgiving celebrated a massacre. I don't know about you, but I felt sick to my stomach reading that aloud. I also felt angry at everyone--I felt like everyone was lying to me about what Thanksgiving was about.


I'm at a loss for words.

And so...what, exactly?
Thanksgiving is simply what the name implies: Thanksgiving. The more gruesome aspects behind its history shouldn't ruin the meaning of the holiday itself.
For instance, in Ancient Israel they celebrated their deliverance from Egypt. They never really thought about the fact that many, many Egyptians died to secure their deliverance from slavery. They probably celebrated being given Israel as their home as well, but they probably didn't consider that another civilization had to be wiped out to make this possible.
We celebrate Independence from England, but lots of people died in the war that made this possible.
We honor Abraham Lincoln, but we don't really consider that HIS VERY ELECTION AS PRESIDENT is what caused the South to secede and start the Civil War.
You get my point?

During thanksgiving we don't celebrate a massacre. We celebrate an oppressed people arriving in a new land. Unfortunately, a massacre followed, but the massacre is not what we celebrate.

I just thought people might be interested in learning the truth. I may choose to make Thanksgiving a day of mourning and rememberance. Like veteran's day. But I make no pretense at telling you what to do.

That being said, I think I do need to respond somewhat. The genocide didn't "unfortunately happen." It was committed by those Puritans you said you were celebrating. And they kept committing genocides. Abraham Lincoln was also terrible to Native Americans. He committed the largest mass execution in US history--toward the Dakota.

I don't think it's entirely fair to assume that the evil Puritans slaughtered the good Native Americans. The Pilgrims were attacked first, if I recall correctly. Before the Puritans a colony was mysteriously wiped out, most likely by a hostile Native American tribe. But you're right: it's not a good thing that they did. Their arrival meant the destruction of the Native Americans, but it also meant the Founding of the United States. I think that people generally celebrate Thanksgiving because of the latter.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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YYW
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11/20/2014 7:11:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 6:00:36 PM, kbub wrote:
--Warning: This [quasi-true work of creative historical interpretation] may be disturbing to some audiences--

I'm at a loss for words.

I'd suggest a few things to keep in mind, kbub...

There are a lot of history textbooks that present different versions of events, some of which are more or less accurate than others. This work of creativity that you've posted seems to be a fairly straightforward reinterpretation of those events to advance a political narrative, and to evoke certain emotions.

That is not to say that the Puritans were wonderful people -they were not- or that the Indians were totally innocent -they were not either. And even if a person knew nothing about American history, this narrative doesn't even make good sense. Knowing a thing or two about American history, I can say that the account this is getting at is as much a work of creativity as it is a work of fact. Creativity in two ways: omitting certain details, like Native aggression, and in making excessively bold statements about things that didn't really happen in the way that they did.

When you're reading something like this, you need to do so with skepticism. What is this author trying to get me to think? What is this author trying to get me to feel? Why might they be doing that? How are they doing that? Why was this piece written as it is?

If you ever get a chance to take a course in the intellectual history of the history of the United States (sort of like meta-history...it's more or less the history of how we tell our story, and how that story has changed over time), I'd suggest that you do it. It might be of interest to you, and it would, if this is a topic that you're interested in, perhaps equip you with the tools to avoid falling for certain "traps" that are laced within documents of the variety that you've posted above.

The "traps" are these: the political narrative, the reason for publication, the way events are portrayed, the selection of certain facts to include, the omissions of others, etc. Surely, you're not so naive as to believe that this is "the whole story" -or if you are, then we've probably got things that we need to discuss.

Usually, articles like that are written for one or more of a few reasons: (1) shock value, (2) to advance the idea that white people are bad and the cause of all the world's problems, (3) to "unmask" and/or "defile" sacred things in society, and others. The "unmasking" aspect is of particular importance here, because this "history" -if one could call it that- is less a history than a propaganda piece. The take-away is that Thanksgiving is really an unholy, godforsaken celebration of human depravity at its most egregious.

Now... the only way that thesis holds is if the only reason we celebrate Thanksgiving is because of some pilgrims. To believe that I suppose is possible, but it's absurd, because what Thanksgiving means is a time for families to come together and reunite, once a year, and break bread. That's Thanksgiving. It's not about murder, or killing Indians in peculiar and grotesque ways. It's about spending time with loved ones, and taking a step back to think about what matters. That is an activity that has value which far exceeds the value of any good that may come from publishing or reading a historical "fvck you!" directed at an otherwise pleasant holiday.

So, in the unlikely event that my point wasn't clear: (1) your OP doesn't tell the whole story, meaning that I don't see any reason to take it seriously, and (2) even if it did tell the whole story, the contemporary value of Thanksgiving in culture and society far outweighs the value of knowing what you posted. I think that's what thett might have been getting at, but I wanted to say it in more detail.
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11/20/2014 7:11:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:10:24 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:05:00 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:49:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:00:36 PM, kbub wrote:
--Warning: This true story may be disturbing to some audiences--

From: http://www.manataka.org...

THE REAL STORY OF THANKSGIVING

by Susan Bates

Most of us associate the holiday with happy Pilgrims and Indians sitting down to a big feast. And that did happen - once.

The story began in 1614 when a band of English explorers sailed home to England with a ship full of Patuxet Indians bound for slavery. They left behind smallpox which virtually wiped out those who had escaped. By the time the Pilgrims arrived in Massachusetts Bay they found only one living Patuxet Indian, a man named Squanto who had survived slavery in England and knew their language. He taught them to grow corn and to fish, and negotiated a peace treaty between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Nation. At the end of their first year, the Pilgrims held a great feast honoring Squanto and the Wampanoags.

But as word spread in England about the paradise to be found in the new world, religious zealots called Puritans began arriving by the boat load. Finding no fences around the land, they considered it to be in the public domain. Joined by other British settlers, they seized land, capturing strong young Natives for slaves and killing the rest. But the Pequot Nation had not agreed to the peace treaty Squanto had negotiated and they fought back. The Pequot War was one of the bloodiest Indian wars ever fought.

In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared "A Day Of Thanksgiving" because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.

Cheered by their "victory", the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.

Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of "thanksgiving" to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for 24 years.

The killings became more and more frenzied, with days of thanksgiving feasts being held after each successful massacre. George Washington finally suggested that only one day of Thanksgiving per year be set aside instead of celebrating each and every massacre. Later Abraham Lincoln decreed Thanksgiving Day to be a legal national holiday during the Civil War -- on the same day he ordered troops to march against the starving Sioux in Minnesota.

This story doesn't have quite the same fuzzy feelings associated with it as the one where the Indians and Pilgrims are all sitting down together at the big feast. But we need to learn our true history so it won't ever be repeated. Next Thanksgiving, when you gather with your loved ones to Thank God for all your blessings, think about those people who only wanted to live their lives and raise their families. They, also took time out to say "thank you" to Creator for all their blessings.

----

I had no idea that every Thanksgiving celebrated a massacre. I don't know about you, but I felt sick to my stomach reading that aloud. I also felt angry at everyone--I felt like everyone was lying to me about what Thanksgiving was about.


I'm at a loss for words.

And so...what, exactly?
Thanksgiving is simply what the name implies: Thanksgiving. The more gruesome aspects behind its history shouldn't ruin the meaning of the holiday itself.
For instance, in Ancient Israel they celebrated their deliverance from Egypt. They never really thought about the fact that many, many Egyptians died to secure their deliverance from slavery. They probably celebrated being given Israel as their home as well, but they probably didn't consider that another civilization had to be wiped out to make this possible.
We celebrate Independence from England, but lots of people died in the war that made this possible.
We honor Abraham Lincoln, but we don't really consider that HIS VERY ELECTION AS PRESIDENT is what caused the South to secede and start the Civil War.
You get my point?

During thanksgiving we don't celebrate a massacre. We celebrate an oppressed people arriving in a new land. Unfortunately, a massacre followed, but the massacre is not what we celebrate.

I just thought people might be interested in learning the truth. I may choose to make Thanksgiving a day of mourning and rememberance. Like veteran's day. But I make no pretense at telling you what to do.

That being said, I think I do need to respond somewhat. The genocide didn't "unfortunately happen." It was committed by those Puritans you said you were celebrating. And they kept committing genocides. Abraham Lincoln was also terrible to Native Americans. He committed the largest mass execution in US history--toward the Dakota.

I don't think it's entirely fair to assume that the evil Puritans slaughtered the good Native Americans. The Pilgrims were attacked first, if I recall correctly. Before the Puritans a colony was mysteriously wiped out, most likely by a hostile Native American tribe.

You're thinking of Roanoke, and they most likely joined the local tribes.

But you're right: it's not a good thing that they did. Their arrival meant the destruction of the Native Americans, but it also meant the Founding of the United States. I think that people generally celebrate Thanksgiving because of the latter.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
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11/20/2014 7:13:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:11:16 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:00:36 PM, kbub wrote:
--Warning: This [quasi-true work of creative historical interpretation] may be disturbing to some audiences--

I'm at a loss for words.

I'd suggest a few things to keep in mind, kbub...

There are a lot of history textbooks that present different versions of events, some of which are more or less accurate than others. This work of creativity that you've posted seems to be a fairly straightforward reinterpretation of those events to advance a political narrative, and to evoke certain emotions.

That is not to say that the Puritans were wonderful people -they were not- or that the Indians were totally innocent -they were not either. And even if a person knew nothing about American history, this narrative doesn't even make good sense. Knowing a thing or two about American history, I can say that the account this is getting at is as much a work of creativity as it is a work of fact. Creativity in two ways: omitting certain details, like Native aggression, and in making excessively bold statements about things that didn't really happen in the way that they did.

When you're reading something like this, you need to do so with skepticism. What is this author trying to get me to think? What is this author trying to get me to feel? Why might they be doing that? How are they doing that? Why was this piece written as it is?

If you ever get a chance to take a course in the intellectual history of the history of the United States (sort of like meta-history...it's more or less the history of how we tell our story, and how that story has changed over time), I'd suggest that you do it. It might be of interest to you, and it would, if this is a topic that you're interested in, perhaps equip you with the tools to avoid falling for certain "traps" that are laced within documents of the variety that you've posted above.

The "traps" are these: the political narrative, the reason for publication, the way events are portrayed, the selection of certain facts to include, the omissions of others, etc. Surely, you're not so naive as to believe that this is "the whole story" -or if you are, then we've probably got things that we need to discuss.

Usually, articles like that are written for one or more of a few reasons: (1) shock value, (2) to advance the idea that white people are bad and the cause of all the world's problems, (3) to "unmask" and/or "defile" sacred things in society, and others. The "unmasking" aspect is of particular importance here, because this "history" -if one could call it that- is less a history than a propaganda piece. The take-away is that Thanksgiving is really an unholy, godforsaken celebration of human depravity at its most egregious.

Now... the only way that thesis holds is if the only reason we celebrate Thanksgiving is because of some pilgrims. To believe that I suppose is possible, but it's absurd, because what Thanksgiving means is a time for families to come together and reunite, once a year, and break bread. That's Thanksgiving. It's not about murder, or killing Indians in peculiar and grotesque ways. It's about spending time with loved ones, and taking a step back to think about what matters. That is an activity that has value which far exceeds the value of any good that may come from publishing or reading a historical "fvck you!" directed at an otherwise pleasant holiday.

So, in the unlikely event that my point wasn't clear: (1) your OP doesn't tell the whole story, meaning that I don't see any reason to take it seriously, and (2) even if it did tell the whole story, the contemporary value of Thanksgiving in culture and society far outweighs the value of knowing what you posted. I think that's what thett might have been getting at, but I wanted to say it in more detail.

Thank you.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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11/20/2014 7:13:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:11:32 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:10:24 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:05:00 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:49:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:00:36 PM, kbub wrote:
--Warning: This true story may be disturbing to some audiences--

From: http://www.manataka.org...

THE REAL STORY OF THANKSGIVING

by Susan Bates

Most of us associate the holiday with happy Pilgrims and Indians sitting down to a big feast. And that did happen - once.

The story began in 1614 when a band of English explorers sailed home to England with a ship full of Patuxet Indians bound for slavery. They left behind smallpox which virtually wiped out those who had escaped. By the time the Pilgrims arrived in Massachusetts Bay they found only one living Patuxet Indian, a man named Squanto who had survived slavery in England and knew their language. He taught them to grow corn and to fish, and negotiated a peace treaty between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Nation. At the end of their first year, the Pilgrims held a great feast honoring Squanto and the Wampanoags.

But as word spread in England about the paradise to be found in the new world, religious zealots called Puritans began arriving by the boat load. Finding no fences around the land, they considered it to be in the public domain. Joined by other British settlers, they seized land, capturing strong young Natives for slaves and killing the rest. But the Pequot Nation had not agreed to the peace treaty Squanto had negotiated and they fought back. The Pequot War was one of the bloodiest Indian wars ever fought.

In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared "A Day Of Thanksgiving" because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.

Cheered by their "victory", the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.

Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of "thanksgiving" to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for 24 years.

The killings became more and more frenzied, with days of thanksgiving feasts being held after each successful massacre. George Washington finally suggested that only one day of Thanksgiving per year be set aside instead of celebrating each and every massacre. Later Abraham Lincoln decreed Thanksgiving Day to be a legal national holiday during the Civil War -- on the same day he ordered troops to march against the starving Sioux in Minnesota.

This story doesn't have quite the same fuzzy feelings associated with it as the one where the Indians and Pilgrims are all sitting down together at the big feast. But we need to learn our true history so it won't ever be repeated. Next Thanksgiving, when you gather with your loved ones to Thank God for all your blessings, think about those people who only wanted to live their lives and raise their families. They, also took time out to say "thank you" to Creator for all their blessings.

----

I had no idea that every Thanksgiving celebrated a massacre. I don't know about you, but I felt sick to my stomach reading that aloud. I also felt angry at everyone--I felt like everyone was lying to me about what Thanksgiving was about.


I'm at a loss for words.

And so...what, exactly?
Thanksgiving is simply what the name implies: Thanksgiving. The more gruesome aspects behind its history shouldn't ruin the meaning of the holiday itself.
For instance, in Ancient Israel they celebrated their deliverance from Egypt. They never really thought about the fact that many, many Egyptians died to secure their deliverance from slavery. They probably celebrated being given Israel as their home as well, but they probably didn't consider that another civilization had to be wiped out to make this possible.
We celebrate Independence from England, but lots of people died in the war that made this possible.
We honor Abraham Lincoln, but we don't really consider that HIS VERY ELECTION AS PRESIDENT is what caused the South to secede and start the Civil War.
You get my point?

During thanksgiving we don't celebrate a massacre. We celebrate an oppressed people arriving in a new land. Unfortunately, a massacre followed, but the massacre is not what we celebrate.

I just thought people might be interested in learning the truth. I may choose to make Thanksgiving a day of mourning and rememberance. Like veteran's day. But I make no pretense at telling you what to do.

That being said, I think I do need to respond somewhat. The genocide didn't "unfortunately happen." It was committed by those Puritans you said you were celebrating. And they kept committing genocides. Abraham Lincoln was also terrible to Native Americans. He committed the largest mass execution in US history--toward the Dakota.

I don't think it's entirely fair to assume that the evil Puritans slaughtered the good Native Americans. The Pilgrims were attacked first, if I recall correctly. Before the Puritans a colony was mysteriously wiped out, most likely by a hostile Native American tribe.

You're thinking of Roanoke, and they most likely joined the local tribes.

The colonists joined a tribe? I never heard that theory before. Interesting.

But you're right: it's not a good thing that they did. Their arrival meant the destruction of the Native Americans, but it also meant the Founding of the United States. I think that people generally celebrate Thanksgiving because of the latter.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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11/20/2014 7:15:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
One of the really unfortunate things about revisionist historians is that while some of them do a valuable service (like emphasizing that the Civil War was NOT about state's rights alone as some abstract concept; it was about slavery, and state's rights to continue to enslave, and only state's rights to continue to enslave people), they damage their cause when they publish stuff like this that caters to the lowest common denominator.

I mean... really. Outside of a community college or some obnoxious high school teacher in Oregon or Washington State who wore his politics on his sleeve, that article would and ought to receive no credence. It's not even offensive, so much as it is an exercise in absurdity.
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thett3
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11/20/2014 7:15:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2014 7:13:43 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:11:32 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:10:24 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 7:05:00 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:49:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2014 6:00:36 PM, kbub wrote:
--Warning: This true story may be disturbing to some audiences--

From: http://www.manataka.org...

THE REAL STORY OF THANKSGIVING

by Susan Bates

Most of us associate the holiday with happy Pilgrims and Indians sitting down to a big feast. And that did happen - once.

The story began in 1614 when a band of English explorers sailed home to England with a ship full of Patuxet Indians bound for slavery. They left behind smallpox which virtually wiped out those who had escaped. By the time the Pilgrims arrived in Massachusetts Bay they found only one living Patuxet Indian, a man named Squanto who had survived slavery in England and knew their language. He taught them to grow corn and to fish, and negotiated a peace treaty between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Nation. At the end of their first year, the Pilgrims held a great feast honoring Squanto and the Wampanoags.

But as word spread in England about the paradise to be found in the new world, religious zealots called Puritans began arriving by the boat load. Finding no fences around the land, they considered it to be in the public domain. Joined by other British settlers, they seized land, capturing strong young Natives for slaves and killing the rest. But the Pequot Nation had not agreed to the peace treaty Squanto had negotiated and they fought back. The Pequot War was one of the bloodiest Indian wars ever fought.

In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared "A Day Of Thanksgiving" because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.

Cheered by their "victory", the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.

Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of "thanksgiving" to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for 24 years.

The killings became more and more frenzied, with days of thanksgiving feasts being held after each successful massacre. George Washington finally suggested that only one day of Thanksgiving per year be set aside instead of celebrating each and every massacre. Later Abraham Lincoln decreed Thanksgiving Day to be a legal national holiday during the Civil War -- on the same day he ordered troops to march against the starving Sioux in Minnesota.

This story doesn't have quite the same fuzzy feelings associated with it as the one where the Indians and Pilgrims are all sitting down together at the big feast. But we need to learn our true history so it won't ever be repeated. Next Thanksgiving, when you gather with your loved ones to Thank God for all your blessings, think about those people who only wanted to live their lives and raise their families. They, also took time out to say "thank you" to Creator for all their blessings.

----

I had no idea that every Thanksgiving celebrated a massacre. I don't know about you, but I felt sick to my stomach reading that aloud. I also felt angry at everyone--I felt like everyone was lying to me about what Thanksgiving was about.


I'm at a loss for words.

And so...what, exactly?
Thanksgiving is simply what the name implies: Thanksgiving. The more gruesome aspects behind its history shouldn't ruin the meaning of the holiday itself.
For instance, in Ancient Israel they celebrated their deliverance from Egypt. They never really thought about the fact that many, many Egyptians died to secure their deliverance from slavery. They probably celebrated being given Israel as their home as well, but they probably didn't consider that another civilization had to be wiped out to make this possible.
We celebrate Independence from England, but lots of people died in the war that made this possible.
We honor Abraham Lincoln, but we don't really consider that HIS VERY ELECTION AS PRESIDENT is what caused the South to secede and start the Civil War.
You get my point?

During thanksgiving we don't celebrate a massacre. We celebrate an oppressed people arriving in a new land. Unfortunately, a massacre followed, but the massacre is not what we celebrate.

I just thought people might be interested in learning the truth. I may choose to make Thanksgiving a day of mourning and rememberance. Like veteran's day. But I make no pretense at telling you what to do.

That being said, I think I do need to respond somewhat. The genocide didn't "unfortunately happen." It was committed by those Puritans you said you were celebrating. And they kept committing genocides. Abraham Lincoln was also terrible to Native Americans. He committed the largest mass execution in US history--toward the Dakota.

I don't think it's entirely fair to assume that the evil Puritans slaughtered the good Native Americans. The Pilgrims were attacked first, if I recall correctly. Before the Puritans a colony was mysteriously wiped out, most likely by a hostile Native American tribe.

You're thinking of Roanoke, and they most likely joined the local tribes.

The colonists joined a tribe? I never heard that theory before. Interesting.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. Of course, no one knows for sure but there's evidence to suggest that there were lightish skinned/eyed "Indians" who claimed to descend from the former colonists of Roanoke. http://en.wikipedia.org...

But you're right: it's not a good thing that they did. Their arrival meant the destruction of the Native Americans, but it also meant the Founding of the United States. I think that people generally celebrate Thanksgiving because of the latter.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right