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Debate Quality

Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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5/5/2010 7:02:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
As many of you are well aware, the quality of the debates of DDO is declining (or at the very least remaining stagnant).

To remedy this situation I propose that we create:

"The league of sophisticated debaters united against the proliferation of stupid debates" It's a working title. Can someone think of a better one?

This league will hopefully be comprised of science majors, philosophy majors, political science majors, psychology majors, economics majors, business majors, religious studies majors, math majors and everyone - regardless of education - that seriously cares about reason and the truth.

By joining this group you promise to boycott (i.e. refuse to take) debates that:

1. are rambling, incoherent, or difficult to read.

2. are only a few sentences long.

3. request that the opposition create the first argument. There are noteworthy exceptions to this (e.g. http://www.debate.org...) Debates like that are great.

4. contain vacuous resolutions. (e.g. http://www.debate.org...)

5. are generally very poor in quality.

Additionally, we should start to converge on the general debate layout that works the best. Interestingly enough, social evolution has already done a lot of this on DDO. This debate should function as a good model for how to go back and forth with an opponent. http://www.debate.org... The layout from both people is clear, concise, and the sources are listed at the bottom in a numbered order.

I think I've also come up with a layout that's pretty effective, and hopefully easily readable. http://www.debate.org... The thesis statement and claims are laid out in the opening paragraph. Then a title follows which gives the general thrust of the debate. After that, the contentions (C1, C2, C3 etc.) follow with a title that gives the main point of the following paragraph. And finally, the conclusion ties everything together. There is probably a range of good ways to set up a debate, but there are clearly better ways than others.

There is nothing wrong with funny or joke debates, but some debates are little more than pointless spam. We should be discouraging these kind of debates and leading by example with quality debates that are not offensive to reason.

Thanks, and please join.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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5/5/2010 7:10:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm not sure if I have the proper credentials, but I think that a better name than that f*cking ridiculous monstrosity of a title which you currently have would be something along the lines of "The Greater Debater Society" or something like that. I like rhyming titles, given that it sounds a bit more classy than... whatever you had.

Anyway, interesting idea, and it sounds like it would definitely perpetuate what little intelligent discussion still remains in the actual "debate" part of this site.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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5/5/2010 7:11:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't think this is a good idea.

Debate quality isn't based on how well the top debaters debate, but rather on how newcomers debate, all this will do is lead to more elitism among those who are already top debaters. Having the best debaters boycott debates they deem "stupid" is counterproductive. These "stupid" debates will just be taken up by other debaters who have less experience.

Furthermore, why would anyone want to join if it means we have to abide by a particular format? It's too restrictive and doing so will harm DDO participation.

The best way to improve debate, is to start a debate yourself, debate well, and do it frequently enough to make up for all the other stupid debates.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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5/5/2010 7:13:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I boycott this proposal. :P I like the less serious debates. It's good to have a laugh once in awhile. Also, I think something like this will lead to elitism.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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5/5/2010 7:14:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 7:02:34 PM, Freeman wrote:
3. request that the opposition create the first argument.

And you want to increase the quality of the debates?

"I will let Con/Pro go first" has to be one of the weakest intellectual tactics around.
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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5/5/2010 7:14:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Or...it doesn't really matter, and anything we do won't change much overall.

Live with it. This site, after all, is for fun and relaxation. No need to take it too seriously.
Television Rot: http://tvrot.com...
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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5/5/2010 7:18:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 7:02:34 PM, Freeman wrote:
"The league of sophisticated debaters united against the proliferation of stupid debates" It's a working title. Can someone think of a better one?

Master Debaters.
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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5/5/2010 7:23:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 7:13:20 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I boycott this proposal. :P I like the less serious debates. It's good to have a laugh once in awhile. Also, I think something like this will lead to elitism.

There is nothing wrong with funny debates, but some debates are meaningless.

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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5/5/2010 7:23:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 7:23:08 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 5/5/2010 7:13:20 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I boycott this proposal. :P I like the less serious debates. It's good to have a laugh once in awhile. Also, I think something like this will lead to elitism.

There is nothing wrong with funny debates, but some debates are meaningless.

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

I would prefer lower quality over elitism in this aspect, sir.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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5/5/2010 7:31:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 7:14:25 PM, Puck wrote:
At 5/5/2010 7:02:34 PM, Freeman wrote:
3. request that the opposition create the first argument.

And you want to increase the quality of the debates?

"I will let Con/Pro go first" has to be one of the weakest intellectual tactics around.

That's what he's asking you to "boycott", as it were.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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5/5/2010 7:32:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 7:31:27 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 5/5/2010 7:14:25 PM, Puck wrote:
At 5/5/2010 7:02:34 PM, Freeman wrote:
3. request that the opposition create the first argument.

And you want to increase the quality of the debates?

"I will let Con/Pro go first" has to be one of the weakest intellectual tactics around.

That's what he's asking you to "boycott", as it were.

Oops. Misread.
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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5/5/2010 7:33:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 7:23:56 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 5/5/2010 7:23:08 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 5/5/2010 7:13:20 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I boycott this proposal. :P I like the less serious debates. It's good to have a laugh once in awhile. Also, I think something like this will lead to elitism.

There is nothing wrong with funny debates, but some debates are meaningless.

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

I would prefer lower quality over elitism in this aspect, sir.

I would prefer if you would stop encouraging spammers, sir.

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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5/5/2010 7:33:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
There's nothing wrong with Freeman wanting to take strides in improving DDO, it's just that I don't think this idea will pan out the way he thinks.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
SportsGuru
Posts: 1,648
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5/5/2010 7:36:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Without even going into the elitism that such a move would create that, the fact is that its HOW the debaters debate that make it good bad or otherwise, not extraneous factors, such as "vacuous resolutions" Of the top of my head, though I probable thought of it first since I actually participated in this one

http://www.debate.org...

The resolution may not be the most serious resolution, or even one that can be proven, but is was by far the best intellectual sparring I've had in a debate. (Note: the last round is "forfeited" because the system cut off the time, when I still had a few minutes left and about to copy/paste my argument. Thus, it is in the comments section)
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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5/6/2010 8:05:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/5/2010 7:33:11 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 5/5/2010 7:23:56 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
I would prefer lower quality over elitism in this aspect, sir.

I would prefer if you would stop encouraging spammers, sir.

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

Aw don't be a meanie Freeman, let SAC have his easy wins :)
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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5/6/2010 8:25:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I boycott this boycott. the meaningless debates can let us practise debates without getting worked up emotionally in them
http://www.debate.org... abortion is generaly considered a serious debate, but do observe the way my opponent titeld the debate, and his general attitude in comments and debate. Its not deplorable, but the presence of his emotions over the subject affecting his debate is defenitly present. It not a big deal but It would be nice to have debates were we can practice the art without the emotional contraversies. And a man simply cant get emotionaly too worked up over a debate like http://www.debate.org...
exept for Narccasist mabye, he could get emotional worked up over anything.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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5/6/2010 8:28:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/6/2010 8:25:01 AM, Marauder wrote:
exept for Narccasist mabye, he could get emotional worked up over anything.

Link?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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5/6/2010 9:22:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/6/2010 8:28:58 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 5/6/2010 8:25:01 AM, Marauder wrote:
exept for Narccasist mabye, he could get emotional worked up over anything.

Link?

better than a link I will provoke an example right hear, you stupid pedofile.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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5/6/2010 9:32:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'll take that as a concession then.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.