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Mikal / Imabench Platform

Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/1/2014 1:06:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
FreeSpeech - Moderation policy / This is something that on balance offered censorship. Something that bench and I both agreed with and disagreed with in ways and something we want to advocate a change of. We want free speech to be a part of DDO, unless it comes to the point of verbal abuse beyond reason. This is a debate site, one in which you will get into arguments for. One in which insults will become personal. Some people need a thick shell to be on this site. This has been acknowledged by both airmax and innomen in the past

Innomen Quote - "Conflict is what keeps this site alive, and even the occasional drama fuels the posts. There is a balance that is very important to preserve, where the wants and needs of the membership as a whole are kept as the standard for the mod, and limiting the individual members who are the source of harm and abuse. It is a no win situation for the mod, trust me. My time here is limited and changes will happen, but the survival of this site is based on conflict not consensus, not accommodation and not peace, that's just the reality of this site."

Airmax quote " I agree that civility would be nice, especially when it comes to personal attacks that are entirely unnecessary. But this is a debate site, and arguments are bound to get heated and certain regrettable things are bound to said some times. I don't condone that type of behavior, but like everyone has said, this site requires one to just let things slide and have thick skin.

On a practical point, I don't see how this can be resolved through censorship. It would entirely defeat the purpose of this site. Yes, I would like if everyone would be nice to each other and display some empathy. But this is a site where arguments are encouraged and common. The only way to overcome taking it too personally is to recognize that you shouldn't take any insults too seriously, this is the internet after all.

I sympathize with you WriterDave, but if the nature of the site causes you emotional distress, I'd recommend you limit your use of it, if you use it at all."

Conflict is a part of this site, one that should be embraced and not restricted unless there is special cause, or excessive use of bullying. Personal attack however will come along with debate, that is something that no one can change as past moderators have stated.

While we tolerate and understand there being a certain level of censorship on the site to protect members from needless abuse, we feel that the level of censorship has become completely overblown, to the point where even the most harmless of insults gets treated as hate speech with the poster getting a warning. That is why the centerpiece of our platform is to rollback the expansion of censorship on the site back to what it used to be, while still allowing for protection of people from blatant abuse.

Imabench here, and yes, I am back, temporarily, for this campaign. I'll be gone again if this doesn't work out, but I'll stay if it does. Anyways, I was one of the more vocal protesters of the new moderation policy that was instituted since it kinda drastically limited what I could do with the beloved Weekly Stupid. Ultimately, not being able to run the show the way I wanted to, or even be allowed to act the way I normally (mis)behave, is what pushed me to publicly announce leaving the site..... However, when Mikal contacted me asking me to be his VP for a presidential campaign focused on rolling back the very thing I found intolerable on DDO (next to ScottyDouglas's idiocy of course), I couldn't refuse, and so I am back, again, for the last time, again.

I believe in scaling back the moderation policy, but I dont believe that I am the one to lead the charge. Mikal can far more eloquently argue the case for this than I can, which is why I will fanatically support him, this campaign, and ask for you to support it as well.

Brought to you by Frozen, which is getting a sequel in case you havent heard.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Kicking Bad members off the site / With that being said censorship and opinion should be open, but there are some members that go out of their way to cause conflict above and beyond the point of rational thought. ADOL, Jifpop, RM, askbob, Izbo, some of these have been banned and some haven't, but there are some members that literally deserve to be banned just for the controversy that they have caused. Rm has threatened peoples personal safety and was banned, Jif did the same and was not. Jif has spammed countless polls, started a revolution of spam, and personally altered debates so that he can win. He has also altered debates where people would lose because he did not like them. I can personally attest to this, because I was on the receiving end of it once. Along with others he did the same too. ADOL went out of his way to provoke users in to rage wars just to cause drama and issues. Not just free speech stuff but intentionally provoking and causing people distress to the point he should have be banned.

Ima and I firmly believe some people should be banned, and deserve to be banned. We will do our best to make sure these type of users are hauled off the site for good

______________________________________________________________________________________

Trial System / Bring back the trial system, where members like the aforementioned ones are put on trial for their actions and the community votes on whether they should be kicked off and banned. You can view an example of this from the izbo trial in the hall of fame, and this should only be done in special cases, but members like jif, ADOL, and RM are prime examples where this would have been useful. It's a viable way for moderation to moderate while letting the community decide like a democracy about whether some members should be "kicked off the island"

___________________________________________________________________________________

Sub moderators / Doubt I will have the power to make this happen but I will work with airmax to try. Basically set up moderators to run certain forums and have the power to delete spam and posts that are to much. Like the main DDO forum where there is 10 pages of spam about numbers and phone magic and stuff. IF airmax is off or has to much on his plate having people with the privilege to delete this when he is gone is a valuable asset to reduce spam.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Redo the front page / Get the crappy stuff off the front page. I have yet to work out an exact system but remove it from the number of comments a debate has and change the criteria to factor in the number of likes and votes. I will work out an detailed idea of how to implement this and post it in the future, but I want to make the front page a primary focus of this campaign. It literally is horrible. When you can log in and see stuff like you should *** a pig, or gay porn polls with pictures to follow, something needs to change.

___________________________________________________________________________________

DDO cabinet - I want to implement a open cabinet with anyone that wants to join , kind of like airmax did. You can join share your ideas, and we can work together to try to make them work if they are viable and in accordance with juggle. I will have people that help me directly and people that can interact with ideas, thoughts, and projects. Such as running tournies, weekly updates, youtube videos, etc

__________________________________________________________________________________
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/1/2014 1:09:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tourneys and high quality votes/ I want to start up voting incentive, along with tournaments to get intellect back on the site. Give people prizes, or incentive to participate in these. Whether it be just acknowledgement or real prizes. Have stuff for the best votes in a month, or the person who does the best debate.

I can appreciate and love troll debates as much as anyone, because bench and I do them all the time. There however has to be a counter balance for all the bad quality stuff DDO has been bringing lately. The purple debates that are one liners are at an all time high

As I said I love troll debates, rap debates, and any debates. I think there still needs to be a certain threshold for intellectual conversation to keep the right type of members on the site and attract new ones.

I want to advocate for intellectual debates, and votes , so we can improve the site in that way.
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/1/2014 1:31:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Also just for a notation

For all practical purposes. The leading points of this campaign such as the conduct policy, sub mods, trial system, and kicking terrible members are something that is out of my control all around.

The only thing I can do is advocate for them, and judging by how disappointed TUF was with his goals, some things just can't happen. A president is not a moderator, so I can't promise those goals will be achieved, but I can promise that I will advocate for them and try my best to make it happen. Nothing may never come, nor do I believe that airmax and juggle will budge on some of it. I have hope that at some point with enough backing that some changes can be made. I will abide by and stick to promise to promote and uphold free speech, no matter the outcome or result. That is the best I can promise or do. I have no idea the effect it will have or if it's even possible to do, but all I can do is try.

The things I can focus on and actually believe that can occur are the ones after that though

Such as changing the front page. With enough annoyance, I firmly believe that juggle can budge on that, and that is something we could see in the future. In addition the cabinet, tournies, voting promotion, updates, videos, and so forth is something I can do. That is in my power to do, and I will do it. I will advocate for intellectual debates to happen more often with more intellectual votes to follow them.

I want ragnars voting manual posted somewhere such as a sticky on the main forum (this is a realistic goals)

What I'm saying is there are realistic goals, and long shots. I will advocate for my entire platform, but put all my effort into the realistic ones while praying for the long shots.
Mikal
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12/1/2014 1:49:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
After a discussion with bluesteel (after he read my platform),he has agreed to help. He supports the platform and our ticket fully.

He will be like our COS

Note that he will be included in all of our calls and decisions. He will also help in anyway possible.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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12/1/2014 1:52:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
As VP im here to provide assistance + help whenever applicable. I will NOT be put in charge of some secret police force or anything designed to create an underground mafia to secretly run the site in a North-Korea-like grip of fear+power or anything like that
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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12/1/2014 1:58:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 1:49:35 AM, Mikal wrote:
After a discussion with bluesteel (after he read my platform),he has agreed to help. He supports the platform and our ticket fully.

He will be like our COS

Note that he will be included in all of our calls and decisions. He will also help in anyway possible.

Writing this just to confirm what Mikal said, that I will act as his chief of staff. We'll work to reform the moderation policy, as Mikal said, to provide a better balance between being harsher on some toxic users while being more lenient on more innocuous forms of name-calling. As his chief of staff, I'm going to take the very political position that we'll work on ironing out all of the specifics later. I also understand that we'll be implementing a president-sponsored DDO tournament, which I can help administer given my debate background.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/1/2014 2:03:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 1:58:50 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/1/2014 1:49:35 AM, Mikal wrote:
After a discussion with bluesteel (after he read my platform),he has agreed to help. He supports the platform and our ticket fully.

He will be like our COS

Note that he will be included in all of our calls and decisions. He will also help in anyway possible.

Writing this just to confirm what Mikal said, that I will act as his chief of staff. We'll work to reform the moderation policy, as Mikal said, to provide a better balance between being harsher on some toxic users while being more lenient on more innocuous forms of name-calling. As his chief of staff, I'm going to take the very political position that we'll work on ironing out all of the specifics later. I also understand that we'll be implementing a president-sponsored DDO tournament, which I can help administer given my debate background.

Also for further notation ,bench will be my right hand. Bluesteel will be my left

Together us 3 can do our best to change this site for the better.

When you have a bench in one hand and steel in the other, best damn well believe you can punch hard.

Lets get it boys.

As soon as aaron gets out of his time stamp, i'm personally going to work with him and bench on the tournament and voting platform in great detail.

Any questions that you have, I will answer via forums, pms, or on hangouts

I have not been the best member, and I have made mistakes, but I can improve, will improve, and will succeed in what I do.

The one thing no one can take away from me is that I love the hell out of the core user base of this site, it's why i'm on here so much.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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12/1/2014 2:33:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 1:06:18 AM, Mikal wrote:
Trial System / Bring back the trial system, where members like the aforementioned ones are put on trial for their actions and the community votes on whether they should be kicked off and banned. You can view an example of this from the izbo trial in the hall of fame, and this should only be done in special cases, but members like jif, ADOL, and RM are prime examples where this would have been useful. It's a viable way for moderation to moderate while letting the community decide like a democracy about whether some members should be "kicked off the island"

I think more problems would be created in vigilantism. There are some toxic members, of course, that should be banned, but I think (and I think others do, too) that power should be kept to mods. If I don't like someone: of course I'm going to advocate for their removal: but I've already probably advocated for their banning to Airmax, who is way more level-headed and unbiased than 99.99% of active members. He's a more fit person to decide who is and isn't ban-worthy...I advocated for vwv's banning publicly and was rightfully warned. I didn't know it was RM: I was just annoyed at his forum posts. But did I have any hard evidence as to why he should've been removed? No. And other people were annoyed too: they were annoyed he existed. We're a biased group, and we should not handle the permanent removal of members. Looking at the izbo trial, so many of those votes had little RFD and were deciding the fate of a member...we can't have that. Maybe a refined version of a trial would be good...but not that...
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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12/1/2014 4:22:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 2:33:29 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 12/1/2014 1:06:18 AM, Mikal wrote:
Trial System / Bring back the trial system, where members like the aforementioned ones are put on trial for their actions and the community votes on whether they should be kicked off and banned. You can view an example of this from the izbo trial in the hall of fame, and this should only be done in special cases, but members like jif, ADOL, and RM are prime examples where this would have been useful. It's a viable way for moderation to moderate while letting the community decide like a democracy about whether some members should be "kicked off the island"

I think more problems would be created in vigilantism. There are some toxic members, of course, that should be banned, but I think (and I think others do, too) that power should be kept to mods. If I don't like someone: of course I'm going to advocate for their removal: but I've already probably advocated for their banning to Airmax, who is way more level-headed and unbiased than 99.99% of active members. He's a more fit person to decide who is and isn't ban-worthy...I advocated for vwv's banning publicly and was rightfully warned. I didn't know it was RM: I was just annoyed at his forum posts. But did I have any hard evidence as to why he should've been removed? No. And other people were annoyed too: they were annoyed he existed. We're a biased group, and we should not handle the permanent removal of members. Looking at the izbo trial, so many of those votes had little RFD and were deciding the fate of a member...we can't have that. Maybe a refined version of a trial would be good...but not that...

We'll explore a more refined version of the trial system. You also have to take the izbo trial in context. The first round of voting were people taking it seriously. I think the score was 100-2 by the time imabench voted. tvellalot's RFD should be revealing about why a trial was useful in the izbo cause: "I actually thought in the lead up to this debate that izbo10 shouldn't be banned. Then I read Pro's R1 arguments and evidence. Con seemed completely unable to rebutt any of the arguments against him. His conduct in this debate is typical of the very conduct he is being banned for. Good riddance to bad rubbish." As the person who *gathered* the evidence in the izbo trial, I can tell you why really toxic members often don't get banned. It's because no one has ever laid out all the evidence against them all at once. Each individual user goes through their own negative interaction with the person, but no one sees all of those negative interactions combined. Since innomen's time as moderator, I think airmax has done a better job of keeping apprised of all of the complaints against a given user, but there are some people who never file formal complaints, and the full picture of the user gets lost -- even if you at one time heard all the information -- it's really different when you read all the bad things they have done all at once. In the leadup to the izbo trial, a loud minority opposed his ban, for the same reason people oppose any form of censorship now: they didn't know the full story, and disagreed with banning someone for a few trangressions based only on the principle that everyone screws up. The trial was needed by innomen -- at a time when mod banning power had a lot of backlash -- to show the community *why* izbo deserved to be banned. In some way, it was a much more healing process than if Izbo had been quietly banned by innomen. Everyone on DDO knew how bad he was.

After izbo was already losing by like 100 points, people saw the inevitable and started trolling by giving izbo points. I thought it was classless to do so, given the seriousness of the accusations, but some people on this site are immature, so it happens.

If I remember correctly, there was discussion about limiting the vote that counts to a selected group of "jurors." I can't remember whether that was the system that was adopted or whether izbo refused to let innomen pick the jurors because he wanted to take his case to the people.

That said, a trial is only as good as its prosecutor. It took me two weeks to gather all the evidence against izbo. I had to PM all the members he harassed the most, look through his entire voting history, and read through a bunch of his posts in the religious forum to get a sense for what a "normal" discussion with izbo was like. I don't think it's feasible to do that for each person that's banned, but it might be for *some* controversial bans. If Jifpop came back for real, for example, I might be willing to put in the effort again to prosecute him.

Also, keep in mind that the trial was initiated by innomen -- the moderator at the time -- not by me. I didn't randomly challenge izbo to a debate entitled "izbo should be banned." Innomen basically asked me very nicely if I'd do him the huge favor of advocating for izbo's ban because he didn't think he had the support to just ban him outright. A very specific procedure was adopted and agreed upon, and izbo was given a defense team (which included danielle), but he ignored all their advice. The debate was originally supposed to be me versus danielle (arguing on behalf of izbo), but izbo refused and said he wanted to defend himself. Danielle filed a motion with innomen to try to have izbo declared incompetent and force him to accept representation. Innomen refused, for I think the same reason that such a motion is denied in a normal court: if a defendant really wants to defend himself, the court cannot deny his choice of lawyer, even if it is a poor one in such a case.

If a trial system were implemented, it would probably also have a juror system and a procedure for initiating a trial that would need approval from someone (either a mod or a board of advisers). You couldn't just randomly challenge people to debates about whether they should be banned and have that recognized as legitimate. The trial system isn't necessarily the ultimate proposal that we will choose for getting rid of toxic members who won't stay gone, but it is definitely one of the options.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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12/1/2014 4:34:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Bluesteel...always making a good case, lol.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
carriead20
Posts: 1,394
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12/1/2014 5:31:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'll help in any way I can. Let me know what I can do.
To all the people fighting a hard battle out there - life's giving you a pretty hard beating. There's no sugarcoating that, but there's no shadow that's free of light. When life sneers at you and asks, "Ready to go again?" - Raise your hand. Reach out to victory. Don't give in.

---Help Bsh and YYW see each other---
http://www.gofundme.com...
lannan13
Posts: 23,107
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12/1/2014 5:51:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 1:06:18 AM, Mikal wrote:
FreeSpeech - Moderation policy / course), I couldn't refuse, and so I am back, again, for the last time, again.

I believe in scaling back the moderation policy, but I dont believe that I am the one to lead the charge. Mikal can far more eloquently argue the case for this than I can, which is why I will fanatically support him, this campaign, and ask for you to support it as well.


I agree in scaling this back, but the major question is how do you plan to scale it back and by how much?

Brought to you by Frozen, which is getting a sequel in case you havent heard.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Kicking Bad members off the site /

Some people deserved to be banned, but one of the things is that there are other "popular" members who cannot get kicked off the site on the premeice of their popularity. I highly doubt that you will do anything to end this enuendo of madness, but rather than just further increase it due to your popularity. With one breath you say that you will loosen the policy yet in another will increase punishment? Do I see another Romney flip-flop?


______________________________________________________________________________________

Trial System / Bring back the trial system, where members like the aforementioned ones are put on trial for their actions and the community votes on whether they should be kicked off and banned. You can view an example of this from the izbo trial in the hall of fame, and this should only be done in special cases, but members like jif, ADOL, and RM are prime examples where this would have been useful. It's a viable way for moderation to moderate while letting the community decide like a democracy about whether some members should be "kicked off the island"



Here's another issue of it. Once again this is a popularity issue. If someone is unpopular and hated by the site he could easily lose the debate just because of that. People will just vote to get him off no matter his/her case is. This is one of the main issues that I find with this "solution".
___________________________________________________________________________________

Sub moderators / Doubt I will have the power to make this happen but I will work with airmax to try. Basically set up moderators to run certain forums and have the power to delete spam and posts that are to much. Like the main DDO forum where there is 10 pages of spam about numbers and phone magic and stuff. IF airmax is off or has to much on his plate having people with the privilege to delete this when he is gone is a valuable asset to reduce spam.


The first non-contradicting idea that I've seen and liked (so far) It's obvious that the spam bots have gotten out of control under Bladerunner and they have evolved to work when Airmax isn't on, but to hand out this role would clean up the site, but I doubt this would get issued out. I don't see Juggle deligating this power any further down from Ore_Ele and Airmax1227.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Redo the front page / Get the crappy stuff off the front page. I have yet to work out an exact system but remove it from the number of comments a debate has and change the criteria to factor in the number of likes and votes. I will work out an detailed idea of how to implement this and post it in the future, but I want to make the front page a primary focus of this campaign. It literally is horrible. When you can log in and see stuff like you should *** a pig, or gay porn polls with pictures to follow, something needs to change.



A idea that I've suggested several times. It should be cleaned up as the front page looks like a play thing and an advertisement for 2 year olds to join this site. I agree with the changing of the criteria, but what about bringing back the top 5 debater chart. Sure it wasn't always, Mikal, Bluesteal, Imabench, RoyLarthum, and Danielle, but it did those who were in the 99th percentile and this was a huge momentum booster for many younger debaters on the site. ___________________________________________________________________________________

DDO cabinet - I want to implement a open cabinet with anyone that wants to join , kind of like airmax did. You can join share your ideas, and we can work together to try to make them work if they are viable and in accordance with juggle. I will have people that help me directly and people that can interact with ideas, thoughts, and projects. Such as running tournies, weekly updates, youtube videos, etc

Okay I like this idea, but like I've told Airmax and Bladerunner that if you promise away a position to a person you better be able to keep that promise and give them that ability. Say if you grant Tourny running abilities to ESocial and she doesn't come through. you need to also be able to step in and save the operation. You are the President and no matter how much you deligate down you are still the blame for what goes wrong.

How much do you intend on balancing the President-VP role? Airmax was Presidential heavy as well as TUF, but Bladerunner deligated to his VP more often than not.

__________________________________________________________________________________
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/1/2014 7:15:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 2:33:29 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 12/1/2014 1:06:18 AM, Mikal wrote:
Trial System / Bring back the trial system, where members like the aforementioned ones are put on trial for their actions and the community votes on whether they should be kicked off and banned. You can view an example of this from the izbo trial in the hall of fame, and this should only be done in special cases, but members like jif, ADOL, and RM are prime examples where this would have been useful. It's a viable way for moderation to moderate while letting the community decide like a democracy about whether some members should be "kicked off the island"

I think more problems would be created in vigilantism. There are some toxic members, of course, that should be banned, but I think (and I think others do, too) that power should be kept to mods. If I don't like someone: of course I'm going to advocate for their removal: but I've already probably advocated for their banning to Airmax, who is way more level-headed and unbiased than 99.99% of active members. He's a more fit person to decide who is and isn't ban-worthy...I advocated for vwv's banning publicly and was rightfully warned. I didn't know it was RM: I was just annoyed at his forum posts. But did I have any hard evidence as to why he should've been removed? No. And other people were annoyed too: they were annoyed he existed. We're a biased group, and we should not handle the permanent removal of members. Looking at the izbo trial, so many of those votes had little RFD and were deciding the fate of a member...we can't have that. Maybe a refined version of a trial would be good...but not that...

The trial system as heart is a way for the community to judge a member a take it out of the mods hands. Just in general there can be members that are tedious for max to ban, not saying that he would ban them. There are some members however that are an issue to the site without breaking the TOS so much, but are riding the line to the point that you cannot tell the difference. There is one specific member that is active that pops in my mind at this point, a guy that has abided by the TOS but spams debates, comments, and everything to the point it's not reasonable. Someone that like 99 percent of the community wants gone

I think (if implemented) it should remain similar to how it is now. We through around a council idea a while back but the issue is that is only (x) amount of people that are a part of the system, when the community still wanted to be in on it as well. There are ways to revise it and yes it needs tweaking but it is a viable way of enforcement, if someone is judged hazardous to the sight.

It can work similar to the election (x criteria has to be met) before you can vote, but there are situations like the aforementioned one. I want name names, but certain people make it a viable option
Mikal
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12/1/2014 7:15:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 3:19:10 AM, Wylted wrote:
I'll help you campaign in parts of the site which typically don't go on the main forum.

ty sir
Mikal
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12/1/2014 7:22:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 5:51:41 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/1/2014 1:06:18 AM, Mikal wrote:
FreeSpeech - Moderation policy / course), I couldn't refuse, and so I am back, again, for the last time, again.

I believe in scaling back the moderation policy, but I dont believe that I am the one to lead the charge. Mikal can far more eloquently argue the case for this than I can, which is why I will fanatically support him, this campaign, and ask for you to support it as well.


I agree in scaling this back, but the major question is how do you plan to scale it back and by how much?

Scaling back so that if someone calls someone an idiot once or twice out of raged, they don't get jumped on

There are situations like the beverly one and a few others that are going wayyyyyyyy past the line. At that point obv moderation is a good thing, but getting in a flame war that is reasonable is bound to happen on the site, and should be allowed to happen

Granted don't get your hopes up, this is solely out of my power to do as president, and the only thing I can do is advocate for it to change. I will have little to no effect myself, the only way we can ever implement that change is get enough of a userbase to support the idea and ask for an overall together. That however still may not work. It's a long shot, but one that I support

Brought to you by Frozen, which is getting a sequel in case you havent heard.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Kicking Bad members off the site /


Some people deserved to be banned, but one of the things is that there are other "popular" members who cannot get kicked off the site on the premeice of their popularity. I highly doubt that you will do anything to end this enuendo of madness, but rather than just further increase it due to your popularity. With one breath you say that you will loosen the policy yet in another will increase punishment? Do I see another Romney flip-flop?

Again this is the point of the trial system in a way, and IZBO was a prime example of it. Also he was the reason it was invented. Someone that was extremely popular and people advocated for the fact he should stay but should have changed. That trial worked out quite well and it can do so again.


______________________________________________________________________________________

Trial System / Bring back the trial system, where members like the aforementioned ones are put on trial for their actions and the community votes on whether they should be kicked off and banned. You can view an example of this from the izbo trial in the hall of fame, and this should only be done in special cases, but members like jif, ADOL, and RM are prime examples where this would have been useful. It's a viable way for moderation to moderate while letting the community decide like a democracy about whether some members should be "kicked off the island"



Here's another issue of it. Once again this is a popularity issue. If someone is unpopular and hated by the site he could easily lose the debate just because of that. People will just vote to get him off no matter his/her case is. This is one of the main issues that I find with this "solution".

That is why there are ways to tweak it. Set a criteria up (3 debates or so before they can vote) etc and so forth that can be added to make it work more properly. You keep saying popular , popular, popular, but I promise if someone that is popular committed a bad enough offense, the system itself would it should do. The core active userbase, are reasonable members. Assuming they are not capable of voting as a democracy on DDO is a bad line of thought. Your basically saying " I don't trust you to make decisions that are needed". When in reality most people, and I stress most, that we interact with on the forums and that participate in DDO on a regular basis are quite capable of being able to vote in a trial
___________________________________________________________________________________

Sub moderators / Doubt I will have the power to make this happen but I will work with airmax to try. Basically set up moderators to run certain forums and have the power to delete spam and posts that are to much. Like the main DDO forum where there is 10 pages of spam about numbers and phone magic and stuff. IF airmax is off or has to much on his plate having people with the privilege to delete this when he is gone is a valuable asset to reduce spam.


The first non-contradicting idea that I've seen and liked (so far) It's obvious that the spam bots have gotten out of control under Bladerunner and they have evolved to work when Airmax isn't on, but to hand out this role would clean up the site, but I doubt this would get issued out. I don't see Juggle deligating this power any further down from Ore_Ele and Airmax1227.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Redo the front page / Get the crappy stuff off the front page. I have yet to work out an exact system but remove it from the number of comments a debate has and change the criteria to factor in the number of likes and votes. I will work out an detailed idea of how to implement this and post it in the future, but I want to make the front page a primary focus of this campaign. It literally is horrible. When you can log in and see stuff like you should *** a pig, or gay porn polls with pictures to follow, something needs to change.



A idea that I've suggested several times. It should be cleaned up as the front page looks like a play thing and an advertisement for 2 year olds to join this site. I agree with the changing of the criteria, but what about bringing back the top 5 debater chart. Sure it wasn't always, Mikal, Bluesteal, Imabench, RoyLarthum, and Danielle, but it did those who were in the 99th percentile and this was a huge momentum booster for many younger debaters on the site. ___________________________________________________________________________________

DDO cabinet - I want to implement a open cabinet with anyone that wants to join , kind of like airmax did. You can join share your ideas, and we can work together to try to make them work if they are viable and in accordance with juggle. I will have people that help me directly and people that can interact with ideas, thoughts, and projects. Such as running tournies, weekly updates, youtube videos, etc

Okay I like this idea, but like I've told Airmax and Bladerunner that if you promise away a position to a person you better be able to keep that promise and give them that ability. Say if you grant Tourny running abilities to ESocial and she doesn't come through. you need to also be able to step in and save the operation. You are the President and no matter how much you deligate down you are still the blame for what goes wrong.

How much do you intend on balancing the President-VP role? Airmax was Presidential heavy as well as TUF, but Bladerunner deligated to his VP more often than not.

__________________________________________________________________________________
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/1/2014 7:36:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 5:51:41 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/1/2014 1:06:18 AM, Mikal wrote:
FreeSpeech - Moderation policy / course), I couldn't refuse, and so I am back, again, for the last time, again.

I believe in scaling back the moderation policy, but I dont believe that I am the one to lead the charge. Mikal can far more eloquently argue the case for this than I can, which is why I will fanatically support him, this campaign, and ask for you to support it as well.


I agree in scaling this back, but the major question is how do you plan to scale it back and by how much?

Brought to you by Frozen, which is getting a sequel in case you havent heard.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Kicking Bad members off the site /


Some people deserved to be banned, but one of the things is that there are other "popular" members who cannot get kicked off the site on the premeice of their popularity. I highly doubt that you will do anything to end this enuendo of madness, but rather than just further increase it due to your popularity. With one breath you say that you will loosen the policy yet in another will increase punishment? Do I see another Romney flip-flop?


______________________________________________________________________________________

Trial System / Bring back the trial system, where members like the aforementioned ones are put on trial for their actions and the community votes on whether they should be kicked off and banned. You can view an example of this from the izbo trial in the hall of fame, and this should only be done in special cases, but members like jif, ADOL, and RM are prime examples where this would have been useful. It's a viable way for moderation to moderate while letting the community decide like a democracy about whether some members should be "kicked off the island"



Here's another issue of it. Once again this is a popularity issue. If someone is unpopular and hated by the site he could easily lose the debate just because of that. People will just vote to get him off no matter his/her case is. This is one of the main issues that I find with this "solution".
___________________________________________________________________________________

Sub moderators / Doubt I will have the power to make this happen but I will work with airmax to try. Basically set up moderators to run certain forums and have the power to delete spam and posts that are to much. Like the main DDO forum where there is 10 pages of spam about numbers and phone magic and stuff. IF airmax is off or has to much on his plate having people with the privilege to delete this when he is gone is a valuable asset to reduce spam.


The first non-contradicting idea that I've seen and liked (so far) It's obvious that the spam bots have gotten out of control under Bladerunner and they have evolved to work when Airmax isn't on, but to hand out this role would clean up the site, but I doubt this would get issued out. I don't see Juggle deligating this power any further down from Ore_Ele and Airmax1227.

Neither do I. Its possible and should happen but probably won't happen. Still advocate for the change you want to see. Without us supporting a way to delete the main problem, chances are it won't get fixed. This will be similar to rolling back the problem of the moderation policy. There is a chance it can happen, but I will have hardly no to 0 influence on it. We as a community need to advocate for a change to the point juggles acknowledges it.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Redo the front page / Get the crappy stuff off the front page. I have yet to work out an exact system but remove it from the number of comments a debate has and change the criteria to factor in the number of likes and votes. I will work out an detailed idea of how to implement this and post it in the future, but I want to make the front page a primary focus of this campaign. It literally is horrible. When you can log in and see stuff like you should *** a pig, or gay porn polls with pictures to follow, something needs to change.



A idea that I've suggested several times. It should be cleaned up as the front page looks like a play thing and an advertisement for 2 year olds to join this site. I agree with the changing of the criteria, but what about bringing back the top 5 debater chart. Sure it wasn't always, Mikal, Bluesteal, Imabench, RoyLarthum, and Danielle, but it did those who were in the 99th percentile and this was a huge momentum booster for many younger debaters on the site.

That is something that was before my time and I would be lying that I have no idea what it is or know about the specifics, but if you shoot it to be ill be happy to listen. If it was done before I sure it was viable and someone that is even on here can mention why it was removed, but if it's something worth advocating for I will do my best to push for it.

___________________________________________________________________________________

DDO cabinet - I want to implement a open cabinet with anyone that wants to join , kind of like airmax did. You can join share your ideas, and we can work together to try to make them work if they are viable and in accordance with juggle. I will have people that help me directly and people that can interact with ideas, thoughts, and projects. Such as running tournies, weekly updates, youtube videos, etc

Okay I like this idea, but like I've told Airmax and Bladerunner that if you promise away a position to a person you better be able to keep that promise and give them that ability. Say if you grant Tourny running abilities to ESocial and she doesn't come through. you need to also be able to step in and save the operation. You are the President and no matter how much you deligate down you are still the blame for what goes wrong.

Obv, I would still be over it. It just allows DDO members to be apart of the presidency and if someone wanted to step down or could not do it, I could find someone else or do it myself. Bluesteel is an excellent debater and my COS. He h as been to both highschool and collegiate debates. With his help i'm sure we could spit out some great tournaments.

How much do you intend on balancing the President-VP role? Airmax was Presidential heavy as well as TUF, but Bladerunner deligated to his VP more often than not.

It would be a VP and my lefthand man bluesteel. Consdier us 3 running together. All of us will make informed decesion together. We may have little to no power, but we can try

Note that the president is not a moderator just a liaison, and i'm sure airmax will probably not include me in moderation decisions because I have got into with the people in the past. That is something blade has a one up on me on. But if you really consider no president really impacts moderation that much. Someone can work with airmax and try and convince him of stuff, but anyone can do that (not just the president). In the end the mod makes all the calls. Granted I'm sure airmax consults eddie on certain situations, which he would not consult me on but the impact on those conversations is probably limited in itself. If a president had the power to change the site entirely, eddie or TUF would have did a site overall and got features we all needed. Tuf even made a TP site for a chat feature and stuff because it could not be implemented. In codys absence, I was essentially TUFS VP, you can ask him to confirm this. But we both came up with ideas to pitch to juggle, worked on projects together, and quite a few other things. I was not the official VP but I helped a lot. From that I can tell you, its hard to get juggle to anything

____________________________
Mikal
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12/1/2014 7:45:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
For what it's worth

The sub mod policy is kind of an impossible stance, but this is why we should have it

http://tinypic.com...

There are times when airmax is gone, and ore ele is inactive. There are certain users that should be able to go in and delete posts that need to be deleted just to reduce spam
ESocialBookworm
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12/1/2014 8:04:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
This gun be good. tehehe
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
ESocialBookworm
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12/1/2014 8:46:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
@Bench, I think we all have one very important question before we can make a definite decision on whom to vote for.

What size are your balls?
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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12/1/2014 9:11:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Can I be commander in chief of the DDO army?
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
imabench
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12/1/2014 9:12:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 8:46:50 AM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
@Bench, I think we all have one very important question before we can make a definite decision on whom to vote for.

What size are your balls?

http://i.imgur.com...
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
ESocialBookworm
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12/1/2014 9:25:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
@Mima/Imal/Imikal/w/e

Can I please be your assassin?
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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12/1/2014 9:27:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 5:51:41 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 12/1/2014 1:06:18 AM, Mikal wrote:
FreeSpeech - Moderation policy / course), I couldn't refuse, and so I am back, again, for the last time, again.

I believe in scaling back the moderation policy, but I dont believe that I am the one to lead the charge. Mikal can far more eloquently argue the case for this than I can, which is why I will fanatically support him, this campaign, and ask for you to support it as well.


I agree in scaling this back, but the major question is how do you plan to scale it back and by how much?

Brought to you by Frozen, which is getting a sequel in case you havent heard.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Kicking Bad members off the site /


Some people deserved to be banned, but one of the things is that there are other "popular" members who cannot get kicked off the site on the premeice of their popularity. I highly doubt that you will do anything to end this enuendo of madness, but rather than just further increase it due to your popularity. With one breath you say that you will loosen the policy yet in another will increase punishment? Do I see another Romney flip-flop?


______________________________________________________________________________________

Trial System / Bring back the trial system, where members like the aforementioned ones are put on trial for their actions and the community votes on whether they should be kicked off and banned. You can view an example of this from the izbo trial in the hall of fame, and this should only be done in special cases, but members like jif, ADOL, and RM are prime examples where this would have been useful. It's a viable way for moderation to moderate while letting the community decide like a democracy about whether some members should be "kicked off the island"



Here's another issue of it. Once again this is a popularity issue. If someone is unpopular and hated by the site he could easily lose the debate just because of that. People will just vote to get him off no matter his/her case is. This is one of the main issues that I find with this "solution".

If there were a trial system, I envision it being similar to the American system of criminal justice, in which judges still have authority over certain cases (e.g. traffic violations) and juries have authority over other types of cases (felonies).

In the case of DDO, it'd be reversed. The moderator still has jurisdiction over serious violations; popular members can still be banned by the moderator for major TOS infractions. However, a jury of some sort could get rid of a problem member based on proof that the totality of their behavior is sufficiently problematic that they should be removed from the site.

I think that answers your objection. Popular members still have accountability to the TOS. However, if someone is generally a good contributor to the community sufficiently to become "popular," I don't see why a jury should ban that person for being a toxic influence on the site. In contrast, extremely unpopular members should be banned if they are degrading the experience of a large majority of DDO. We'd obviously define what conduct is sufficient to initiate a jury trial: repeatedly bad conduct in the forums, in debates, or in accosting judges (yes), expressing unpopular opinions (no).
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Blade-of-Truth
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12/1/2014 11:06:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 7:45:29 AM, Mikal wrote:
For what it's worth

The sub mod policy is kind of an impossible stance, but this is why we should have it

http://tinypic.com...

There are times when airmax is gone, and ore ele is inactive. There are certain users that should be able to go in and delete posts that need to be deleted just to reduce spam

Yeah I'm a huge advocate for forum-specific moderators who would be given the ability to delete spam threads in their assigned section without having to wait for max or ore. It's very similar to blades forum ambassador project except its one per section and they have thread deletion abilities.

Also, while I can't speak for the whole Council, you have my full support in any and all voting efforts. Glad to see you're going through with this bro :)
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bsh1
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12/1/2014 11:36:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 1:06:18 AM, Mikal wrote:

I have some questions about your platform.

FreeSpeech - Moderation policy / This is something that on balance offered censorship. Something that bench and I both agreed with and disagreed with in ways and something we want to advocate a change of. We want free speech to be a part of DDO, unless it comes to the point of verbal abuse beyond reason. This is a debate site, one in which you will get into arguments for. One in which insults will become personal. Some people need a thick shell to be on this site. This has been acknowledged by both airmax and innomen in the past

How can you, in good conscience, enforce or advocate such a policy when many members, including myself, have seen Bench, numerous times, cross the line into "verbal abuse beyond reason." Doesn't that seem hypocritical?

While we tolerate and understand there being a certain level of censorship on the site to protect members from needless abuse, we feel that the level of censorship has become completely overblown, to the point where even the most harmless of insults gets treated as hate speech with the poster getting a warning. That is why the centerpiece of our platform is to rollback the expansion of censorship on the site back to what it used to be, while still allowing for protection of people from blatant abuse.

Can you point to an instances of egregious censorship that you think represents this problem? Where exactly has Airmax "blatantly abused" his powers to censor? Frankly, I don't think censorship is that big of an issue on DDO--and I would never characterize it as blatant abuse. I think the mods go out of their way to avoid censoring anyone. Moreover, what can you do--concretely--to actually implement this policy?

Imabench here, and yes, I am back, temporarily, for this campaign. I'll be gone again if this doesn't work out, but I'll stay if it does.

Why should we elect someone as VP who has a commitment to self-aggrandizement over a commitment to the site--because this is what that sounds like to me?

Anyways, I was one of the more vocal protesters of the new moderation policy that was instituted since it kinda drastically limited what I could do with the beloved Weekly Stupid. Ultimately, not being able to run the show the way I wanted to, or even be allowed to act the way I normally (mis)behave, is what pushed me to publicly announce leaving the site..... However, when Mikal contacted me asking me to be his VP for a presidential campaign focused on rolling back the very thing I found intolerable on DDO (next to ScottyDouglas's idiocy of course), I couldn't refuse, and so I am back, again, for the last time, again.

Do you two have a proposed alternative to the moderation policy. Would you just abolish it with no replacement? I mean, you talk about pointless verbal abuse, but you need to codify what that means somehow.

Kicking Bad members off the site / With that being said censorship and opinion should be open, but there are some members that go out of their way to cause conflict above and beyond the point of rational thought. ADOL, Jifpop, RM, askbob, Izbo, some of these have been banned and some haven't, but there are some members that literally deserve to be banned just for the controversy that they have caused.

Doesn't it seem contradictory to advocate for free speech so vigorously, and then to support banning people for "controversy"? You cannot have it both ways--if you want that much free speech, then have free speech and all the chaos that it entails. If you want to engage in a policy of censorship through banning, than do that. But you cannot have both.

And really, of all of those, Jif was the only one who wasn't banned--and he hasn't been on the site for ages. I don't see this as a pervasive problem that is as pressing as others.

Can you name three, current, active users of DDO who you would want to ban? Please also note that without Airmax's support, you won't be able to address this part (or the moderation part) of your platform.

Trial System / Bring back the trial system, where members like the aforementioned ones are put on trial for their actions and the community votes on whether they should be kicked off and banned. You can view an example of this from the izbo trial in the hall of fame, and this should only be done in special cases, but members like jif, ADOL, and RM are prime examples where this would have been useful. It's a viable way for moderation to moderate while letting the community decide like a democracy about whether some members should be "kicked off the island"

Who would you try first?

Sub moderators / Doubt I will have the power to make this happen but I will work with airmax to try. Basically set up moderators to run certain forums and have the power to delete spam and posts that are to much. Like the main DDO forum where there is 10 pages of spam about numbers and phone magic and stuff. IF airmax is off or has to much on his plate having people with the privilege to delete this when he is gone is a valuable asset to reduce spam.

I doubt this will happen. I don't think Juggle would jump on board--it's a good idea, but not practical in that sense. I think there are other ways to tackle the spam.

Redo the front page / Get the crappy stuff off the front page. I have yet to work out an exact system but remove it from the number of comments a debate has and change the criteria to factor in the number of likes and votes. I will work out an detailed idea of how to implement this and post it in the future, but I want to make the front page a primary focus of this campaign. It literally is horrible. When you can log in and see stuff like you should *** a pig, or gay porn polls with pictures to follow, something needs to change.

I don't mind the gay porn polls, but I agree with the sentiment here.

DDO cabinet - I want to implement a open cabinet with anyone that wants to join , kind of like airmax did. You can join share your ideas, and we can work together to try to make them work if they are viable and in accordance with juggle. I will have people that help me directly and people that can interact with ideas, thoughts, and projects. Such as running tournies, weekly updates, youtube videos, etc

Wouldn't that get a bit chaotic if enough people wanted to join? As the saying goes, you could easily have too many cooks in the kitchen.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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12/1/2014 11:39:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 1:09:36 AM, Mikal wrote:
Tourneys and high quality votes/ I want to start up voting incentive, along with tournaments to get intellect back on the site. Give people prizes, or incentive to participate in these. Whether it be just acknowledgement or real prizes. Have stuff for the best votes in a month, or the person who does the best debate.

We've had more tourneys during Blade's tenure than in the previous administrations I remember. How would you tangibly increase the number of tourneys without either getting distracted from others goals or creating tourney fatigue? Moreover, there have been more votes on debates since Blade was president than in any administration I can recall? What could you do to do better than that?

Frankly, people want to participate in tourneys--the desire to participate isn't a problem, so I don't understand what offering prizes would actually solve.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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12/1/2014 11:43:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 1:31:08 AM, Mikal wrote:
Also just for a notation

For all practical purposes. The leading points of this campaign such as the conduct policy, sub mods, trial system, and kicking terrible members are something that is out of my control all around.

The only things that you've proposed that you can actually do as President, on your own initiative, are tournaments. And, to be honest, even if Juggle did want to get stuff done, I really sincerely doubt that they would take any ticket with Bench on it seriously enough to build up a good working relationship.

I want ragnars voting manual posted somewhere such as a sticky on the main forum (this is a realistic goals)

I know that Blade and Airmax have already been working on redoing the stickies, so I feel like this is a non-issue, as a solution is imminent.

What I'm saying is there are realistic goals, and long shots. I will advocate for my entire platform, but put all my effort into the realistic ones while praying for the long shots.

You have a lot more long-shots than realistic goals.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...