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toxic inanity

Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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12/9/2014 3:09:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The inanity on this site has reached toxic levels. People are just saying too many shallow, stupid things too often.

Here are my suggestions for improvement.

1. All children be banned from the site, or at least from the forums.
2. All fanfic threads be restricted to Arts.
3. All Google hangouts and related threads be restricted to Personal.
4. All online Mafia threads should go in Games.

That's not enough. I can't think of anything else, but this site would be so awesome if there were a higher proportion of intelligent people.

Maybe other people have suggestions.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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12/9/2014 3:49:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm of the mind that this website would require a complete and utter overhaul to achieve a "higher proportion of intelligent people." It would cease to be what it is currently and would become an entirely different business with an entirely different business plan/path to profitability.

I strongly suspect this website currently does NOT have a path to profitability, and that whatever Juggle saw in this website did not pan out as it anticipated.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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12/9/2014 4:57:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Sorry - I shouldn't have said "stupid" and "intelligent" because that really isn't what I mean.

I mean something more like sophistication and an open, interested approach to challenging ideas.
UchihaMadara
Posts: 1,049
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12/9/2014 8:27:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 3:09:43 AM, Garbanza wrote:
The inanity on this site has reached toxic levels. People are just saying too many shallow, stupid things too often.

Here are my suggestions for improvement.

1. All children be banned from the site, or at least from the forums.

-______________-

No

2. All fanfic threads be restricted to Arts.

Definitely in favor of this.

3. All Google hangouts and related threads be restricted to Personal.

Unless it is for election stuff, I agree.

4. All online Mafia threads should go in Games.

I think this is already the case


That's not enough. I can't think of anything else, but this site would be so awesome if there were a higher proportion of intelligent people.

Maybe other people have suggestions.

Debate.org is an easily accessible site, and most people on this planet are not particularly intelligent. As long as debate.org remains easily accessible, it will continue to have a substantial portion of not-so-intelligent people on it. You would have to put a membership fee or something on it if you only wanted to keep only the most dedicated (not necessarily the most intelligent) members, and I imagine that would drive away quite a few of our intelligent people along with the not-so-intelligent, simply for financial reasons.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,100
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12/9/2014 9:07:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 3:09:43 AM, Garbanza wrote:
The inanity on this site has reached toxic levels. People are just saying too many shallow, stupid things too often.

Here are my suggestions for improvement.

Oh Lord...

1. All children be banned from the site, or at least from the forums.

Rofl. No.

2. All fanfic threads be restricted to Arts.

Meh.

3. All Google hangouts and related threads be restricted to Personal.

No.

4. All online Mafia threads should go in Games.

That's already how it works.

That's not enough. I can't think of anything else, but this site would be so awesome if there were a higher proportion of intelligent people.

IMHO, you're a total dipshit. So...

Maybe other people have suggestions.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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12/9/2014 9:28:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 3:09:43 AM, Garbanza wrote:
The inanity on this site has reached toxic levels. People are just saying too many shallow, stupid things too often.

Here are my suggestions for improvement.

1. All children be banned from the site, or at least from the forums.

Yeah, I'm 13. I hope you see why this idea is flawed.

2. All fanfic threads be restricted to Arts.

No, misc.

3. All Google hangouts and related threads be restricted to Personal.

Then no one would read them.

4. All online Mafia threads should go in Games.

Uhhh, they usually are.


That's not enough. I can't think of anything else, but this site would be so awesome if there were a higher proportion of intelligent people.

Maybe other people have suggestions.
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
komododragon8
Posts: 405
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12/9/2014 9:40:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 3:09:43 AM, Garbanza wrote:
The inanity on this site has reached toxic levels. People are just saying too many shallow, stupid things too often.

Here are my suggestions for improvement.

1. All children be banned from the site, or at least from the forums.

Just because somebody is a kid doesnt mean they are a troll. In fact some really good debaters can be just 13 or 14 years old.
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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12/9/2014 10:10:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 9:55:28 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I will admit I am way past sick of seeing stupid DDO Fanfiction in the DDO section of the site where it clearly does not belong.

T^T

Okay then. I'll just stick to writing things on FFN where people actually *ahem* appreciate fanfiction.

And actually, there are TONS of things that do not belong in the DDO section, yet they are still there.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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12/9/2014 10:12:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:10:01 AM, RevNge wrote:
At 12/9/2014 9:55:28 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I will admit I am way past sick of seeing stupid DDO Fanfiction in the DDO section of the site where it clearly does not belong.

T^T

Okay then. I'll just stick to writing things on FFN where people actually *ahem* appreciate fanfiction.

And actually, there are TONS of things that do not belong in the DDO section, yet they are still there.

Doesn't excuse fanfiction being there. It's really quite annoying. I want to see meaningful things yet I login and see DDO X and Day 5 DDO Y. And I haven't read a single word of it. It's just clutter.
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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12/9/2014 10:18:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:12:58 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:10:01 AM, RevNge wrote:
At 12/9/2014 9:55:28 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I will admit I am way past sick of seeing stupid DDO Fanfiction in the DDO section of the site where it clearly does not belong.

T^T

Okay then. I'll just stick to writing things on FFN where people actually *ahem* appreciate fanfiction.

And actually, there are TONS of things that do not belong in the DDO section, yet they are still there.

Doesn't excuse fanfiction being there. It's really quite annoying. I want to see meaningful things yet I login and see DDO X and Day 5 DDO Y. And I haven't read a single word of it. It's just clutter.

Because spam is just so meaningful! Do you need a love doctor named Rooba by any chance? LOL

I think you're overreacting. There's only one fanfic thread that's created every two or three days out of the dozens. Why so concerned with one topic out of fifty?

If you want to see meaningful things when you login, you shouldn't be on DDO. XD
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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12/9/2014 10:21:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 3:09:43 AM, Garbanza wrote:
The inanity on this site has reached toxic levels. People are just saying too many shallow, stupid things too often.

Here are my suggestions for improvement.

1. All children be banned from the site, or at least from the forums.

You're funny. As said in the words of the great Bench: "Go fvck yourself."
2. All fanfic threads be restricted to Arts.

No one ever visits the Arts, but I'll be happy to release it in Entertainment.
3. All Google hangouts and related threads be restricted to Personal.

Again, go fvck yourself. :D
4. All online Mafia threads should go in Games.
I dun even...

That's not enough. I can't think of anything else, but this site would be so awesome if there were a higher proportion of intelligent people.

Maybe other people have suggestions.

So you think Mafia, fanfiction, Hangouts, and kids are the primary source of stupidity?

You're almost as deranged as LMGIG.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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12/9/2014 10:24:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:18:23 AM, RevNge wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:12:58 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:10:01 AM, RevNge wrote:
At 12/9/2014 9:55:28 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I will admit I am way past sick of seeing stupid DDO Fanfiction in the DDO section of the site where it clearly does not belong.

T^T

Okay then. I'll just stick to writing things on FFN where people actually *ahem* appreciate fanfiction.

And actually, there are TONS of things that do not belong in the DDO section, yet they are still there.

Doesn't excuse fanfiction being there. It's really quite annoying. I want to see meaningful things yet I login and see DDO X and Day 5 DDO Y. And I haven't read a single word of it. It's just clutter.

Because spam is just so meaningful! Do you need a love doctor named Rooba by any chance? LOL

I think you're overreacting. There's only one fanfic thread that's created every two or three days out of the dozens. Why so concerned with one topic out of fifty?

If you want to see meaningful things when you login, you shouldn't be on DDO. XD

^ First of all, that attitude is a) extremely exclusive and b) the reason why people like Garbanza want children banned.

You want to force people off DDO because they want to see meaningful content? Go back to 4chan then and revel in your muck.

Secondly, you just equated your fanfiction to actual spam which gets deleted daily by the mods. Perhaps I should report yours as well and cite the love doctor threads as precedent for banning your stories?

And saying "Five pieces of sh!t isn't SO bad" is a lazy attitude. I'd affirm that five pieces of sh!t is five too many.
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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12/9/2014 10:31:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:24:02 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:18:23 AM, RevNge wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:12:58 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:10:01 AM, RevNge wrote:
At 12/9/2014 9:55:28 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I will admit I am way past sick of seeing stupid DDO Fanfiction in the DDO section of the site where it clearly does not belong.

T^T

Okay then. I'll just stick to writing things on FFN where people actually *ahem* appreciate fanfiction.

And actually, there are TONS of things that do not belong in the DDO section, yet they are still there.

Doesn't excuse fanfiction being there. It's really quite annoying. I want to see meaningful things yet I login and see DDO X and Day 5 DDO Y. And I haven't read a single word of it. It's just clutter.

Because spam is just so meaningful! Do you need a love doctor named Rooba by any chance? LOL

I think you're overreacting. There's only one fanfic thread that's created every two or three days out of the dozens. Why so concerned with one topic out of fifty?

If you want to see meaningful things when you login, you shouldn't be on DDO. XD

^ First of all, that attitude is a) extremely exclusive and b) the reason why people like Garbanza want children banned.

Dear God, I wasn't serious. >.>
You want to force people off DDO because they want to see meaningful content? Go back to 4chan then and revel in your muck.

OMFG.
Secondly, you just equated your fanfiction to actual spam which gets deleted daily by the mods. Perhaps I should report yours as well and cite the love doctor threads as precedent for banning your stories?

No, it's your opinion. You said fanfiction is clutter, and you're the one who treats it as spam. If it bothers you so much, go ahead and tell Airmax to delete them.
And saying "Five pieces of sh!t isn't SO bad" is a lazy attitude. I'd affirm that five pieces of sh!t is five too many.

I take offense to you calling fanfiction sh1t. It might not belong on DDO, but all of the writers have committed themselves to writing it, no matter the general opinion of people like you who despise them.

Unfortunately, that's probably why fanfiction's dying now, thanks to disapproval like this. Why bother to write such "sh1t"?

If it mollifies you, I'll take my sh1tty writing and dump it all in another website.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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12/9/2014 10:31:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Except the fanfiction threads are wonderful and placed in the only area where people will actually look at them. Many people enjoy them, and most of them are really, really good. I absolutely oppose any effort to mandate them to be elsewhere.
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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12/9/2014 10:33:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:31:28 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Except the fanfiction threads are wonderful and placed in the only area where people will actually look at them. Many people enjoy them, and most of them are really, really good. I absolutely oppose any effort to mandate them to be elsewhere.

Well, people like CP says it's utter "sh1t" and it's pretty much spam, so why bother?

Sorry for sounding whiny, but I don't take people insulting others' writing kindly, especially on FFN.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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12/9/2014 10:34:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:31:16 AM, RevNge wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:24:02 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:18:23 AM, RevNge wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:12:58 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:10:01 AM, RevNge wrote:
At 12/9/2014 9:55:28 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I will admit I am way past sick of seeing stupid DDO Fanfiction in the DDO section of the site where it clearly does not belong.

T^T

Okay then. I'll just stick to writing things on FFN where people actually *ahem* appreciate fanfiction.

And actually, there are TONS of things that do not belong in the DDO section, yet they are still there.

Doesn't excuse fanfiction being there. It's really quite annoying. I want to see meaningful things yet I login and see DDO X and Day 5 DDO Y. And I haven't read a single word of it. It's just clutter.

Because spam is just so meaningful! Do you need a love doctor named Rooba by any chance? LOL

I think you're overreacting. There's only one fanfic thread that's created every two or three days out of the dozens. Why so concerned with one topic out of fifty?

If you want to see meaningful things when you login, you shouldn't be on DDO. XD

^ First of all, that attitude is a) extremely exclusive and b) the reason why people like Garbanza want children banned.

Dear God, I wasn't serious. >.>
You want to force people off DDO because they want to see meaningful content? Go back to 4chan then and revel in your muck.

OMFG.
Secondly, you just equated your fanfiction to actual spam which gets deleted daily by the mods. Perhaps I should report yours as well and cite the love doctor threads as precedent for banning your stories?

No, it's your opinion. You said fanfiction is clutter, and you're the one who treats it as spam. If it bothers you so much, go ahead and tell Airmax to delete them.
And saying "Five pieces of sh!t isn't SO bad" is a lazy attitude. I'd affirm that five pieces of sh!t is five too many.

I take offense to you calling fanfiction sh1t. It might not belong on DDO, but all of the writers have committed themselves to writing it, no matter the general opinion of people like you who despise them.

Unfortunately, that's probably why fanfiction's dying now, thanks to disapproval like this. Why bother to write such "sh1t"?

If it mollifies you, I'll take my sh1tty writing and dump it all in another website.

1. I don't care if you move it off the site or not. I never said DDO wasn't the place for it, I said the DDO forum section was.
2. Don't get all hot and bothered.
3. I am an author and the reason why I dislike fanfiction is that it is based entirely on another person's work. It lacks originality. It lacks flavor. I understand the appeal, people fall in love with characters, lore and a world and want to create your own stories within it. That's fine I guess, is akin to playing with Legos. To me, real writing is moving on from Legos and building things with brick and steel. I just find fanfiction inherently stale and inherently parasitic.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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12/9/2014 10:39:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:33:38 AM, RevNge wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:31:28 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Except the fanfiction threads are wonderful and placed in the only area where people will actually look at them. Many people enjoy them, and most of them are really, really good. I absolutely oppose any effort to mandate them to be elsewhere.

Well, people like CP says it's utter "sh1t" and it's pretty much spam, so why bother?

And yet he also said he hasn't read a word, so he stuff his uneducated opinion elsewhere.

Sorry for sounding whiny, but I don't take people insulting others' writing kindly, especially on FFN.

Nor do I.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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12/9/2014 10:43:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:40:57 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
If you read the fanfiction, CP, you would see that most of it isn't even actually fanfiction (A Game of DDO excepted) but original work.

And that's great if it is, then why tack on the name fanfiction? He admitted himself that it has been attracting negative opinions from people doing so. I cannot attest to the quality of the writing which I'm sure is fine (or people wouldn't read it), I just don't get the obsession of fanfiction. I think if you're capable of writing fanfiction you're capable of writing original fiction which gets more respect.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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12/9/2014 10:50:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:39:05 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:33:38 AM, RevNge wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:31:28 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Except the fanfiction threads are wonderful and placed in the only area where people will actually look at them. Many people enjoy them, and most of them are really, really good. I absolutely oppose any effort to mandate them to be elsewhere.

Well, people like CP says it's utter "sh1t" and it's pretty much spam, so why bother?

And yet he also said he hasn't read a word, so he stuff his uneducated opinion elsewhere.

Sorry for sounding whiny, but I don't take people insulting others' writing kindly, especially on FFN.

Nor do I.

I will point out that the only way to get better as a writer is for one to insult your writing at some point.
And I'm not insulting his writing ability but rather choice of writing style i.e fanfiction.
YYW
Posts: 36,256
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12/9/2014 10:52:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The inanity on this site has reached toxic levels. People are just saying too many shallow, stupid things too often.

When I see threads like this, the irony of them is usually the first thing that comes to mind. Most of the kids on this site (like, the vast majority of them) are good and productive members and many of them offer a more valuable contribution to the community than those demanding their ban.

The fan-fics add entertainment to the forums, and most of the fan fics really aren't fan fics but works of original creativity that include DDO personalities as characters. Many of them are very cool, and it's a pity that some have to ruin other people's fun and enjoyment.

Google Hangouts (while I have only been in two of them -both for debates that bsh1 has done) are more or less an extension of the same kind of social environment that takes place in the forums and there is no reason why they should not be posted on the main page. If that bothers some people, they can and should deal with it or go away.

All mafia games already do take place in the games section, so I'm not sure what the OP's point about that was either.

Now, to the overarching irony of this thread, I completely agree that "this site would be so awesome if there were a higher proportion of intelligent people." What's ironic is that the intellectual bar, if raised any higher, would exclude the OP and most of her supporters. That's not so much an indication of my being condescending so much as it is a statement of objective fact as evidenced by her debates.

Seriously, if you don't like the way we do things here.... leave. The same goes for those who are sympathetic to her position.
Tsar of DDO
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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12/9/2014 10:52:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:50:05 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:39:05 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:33:38 AM, RevNge wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:31:28 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Except the fanfiction threads are wonderful and placed in the only area where people will actually look at them. Many people enjoy them, and most of them are really, really good. I absolutely oppose any effort to mandate them to be elsewhere.

Well, people like CP says it's utter "sh1t" and it's pretty much spam, so why bother?

And yet he also said he hasn't read a word, so he stuff his uneducated opinion elsewhere.

Sorry for sounding whiny, but I don't take people insulting others' writing kindly, especially on FFN.

Nor do I.

I will point out that the only way to get better as a writer is for one to insult your writing at some point.
And I'm not insulting his writing ability but rather choice of writing style i.e fanfiction.

Yes, but to do so constructively. Saying "I dislike fanfiction, therefore, don't write it" is not constructive. His story isn't fanfiction either but also original work. I don't know why the fanfiction label has stuck when it's mostly inaccurate.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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12/9/2014 10:55:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:52:07 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:50:05 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:39:05 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:33:38 AM, RevNge wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:31:28 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Except the fanfiction threads are wonderful and placed in the only area where people will actually look at them. Many people enjoy them, and most of them are really, really good. I absolutely oppose any effort to mandate them to be elsewhere.

Well, people like CP says it's utter "sh1t" and it's pretty much spam, so why bother?

And yet he also said he hasn't read a word, so he stuff his uneducated opinion elsewhere.

Sorry for sounding whiny, but I don't take people insulting others' writing kindly, especially on FFN.

Nor do I.

I will point out that the only way to get better as a writer is for one to insult your writing at some point.
And I'm not insulting his writing ability but rather choice of writing style i.e fanfiction.

Yes, but to do so constructively. Saying "I dislike fanfiction, therefore, don't write it" is not constructive. His story isn't fanfiction either but also original work. I don't know why the fanfiction label has stuck when it's mostly inaccurate.

I thought I was being constructive in saying that fanfiction discredits writer's work. I pointed out very clearly why I dislike it and my criticisms are not venamous in nature on that front.

Back to the original point, I guess it doesn't matter where it ends up but it is my opinion that it should be moved to Arts, Entertainment or Misc. That was the point. If he writes fanfiction it is no skin off my back, I just don't read fanfiction anymore because, as many young teens, I had my fill back in the day and have moved on.
YYW
Posts: 36,256
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12/9/2014 10:56:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:50:05 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I will point out that the only way to get better as a writer is for one to insult your writing at some point.

That is not true at all; like, not only is it not true, it's actually counterproductive to the end that it purports to achieve.

The way for people to become better writers is to read and emulate good fiction, not for random people who may or may not have any concept of what good writing looks like to opine upon it and voice their derision.

Some people may benefit from suggestions, but it's really not conceivable that the insults readers who may or may not know what good writing looks like would in any way improve anyone's writing ability. More likely it is the case that insults like that are going to just make someone stop writing.
Tsar of DDO
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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12/9/2014 11:01:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
One of the problems this site is starting to have in increasing abundance is a generational/age gap. The problem is not the intelligence level of the members of this site, even the younger members (~14) are vastly more intelligent than their average peers. Everyone who has the gumption to dive into this site and stick around has to be of some sort of intelligence because the average intelligence of an active user on DDO, I would argue, is higher of that of a normal person.

The problem is in tastes/interaction. We have three distinct groups on the site and the groups are starting to become more stark as they interact.

13-18 year olds.
19-~30
30+
These distinctions are somewhat arbitrary and I don't want to argue about them but thats the rough configuration.

Now these three groups have completely different ways of communicating, things going on in their lives and entertainment tastes. If you can imagine DDO as a large room and dumping all of the active members into it, it is no wonder that there is some contention and condescention going on. Imagine an intelligent 28 year old with two college majors, a wife and a career trying to talk to a 14 year old freshman who thinks they know everything about a certain vein of philosophical thought. The disconnect is not intelligence but rather its just an age gap.

A lot of it is maturity level. Someone who has gone through college is going to find it hard to connect with a high schooler and vis-versa. Then add everything else in on top of it, life experiences, income, race, sexuality, religious values, moral values etc. and we see an endless cylce of people thinking a groupe of other DDO members are dumb or inane when that is simply not the case.
ConservativePolitico
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12/9/2014 11:04:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:56:55 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:50:05 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I will point out that the only way to get better as a writer is for one to insult your writing at some point.

That is not true at all; like, not only is it not true, it's actually counterproductive to the end that it purports to achieve.

The way for people to become better writers is to read and emulate good fiction, not for random people who may or may not have any concept of what good writing looks like to opine upon it and voice their derision.

Some people may benefit from suggestions, but it's really not conceivable that the insults readers who may or may not know what good writing looks like would in any way improve anyone's writing ability. More likely it is the case that insults like that are going to just make someone stop writing.

I disagree. It is not simply about emulation. In fact, I would argue that emulating others will only undermine your own inate skills because you'll just copy someone elses style. I'm not saying you need to take every insult at face value but every once in a while someone needs to put your work down and say "Well Grant this is absolute crap.' If no one ever says that then you'll never change, or you won't change as quickly or deeply as you might.

The flip side is the author has to ask "Why is it crap?" to really get something going but it all starts with an insult. Usually at least.
ConservativePolitico
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12/9/2014 11:10:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:56:55 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:50:05 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I will point out that the only way to get better as a writer is for one to insult your writing at some point.

That is not true at all; like, not only is it not true, it's actually counterproductive to the end that it purports to achieve.

The way for people to become better writers is to read and emulate good fiction, not for random people who may or may not have any concept of what good writing looks like to opine upon it and voice their derision.

Some people may benefit from suggestions, but it's really not conceivable that the insults readers who may or may not know what good writing looks like would in any way improve anyone's writing ability. More likely it is the case that insults like that are going to just make someone stop writing.

Furthermore if insults make you quit writing you probably shouldn't be writing for anything other than fun anyways. Insults are part of the business. If they don't come from your editor they'll sure as hell come from the readers at some point.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/9/2014 11:15:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 10:31:28 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Except the fanfiction threads are wonderful and placed in the only area where people will actually look at them. Many people enjoy them, and most of them are really, really good. I absolutely oppose any effort to mandate them to be elsewhere.

It is this line of thinking that has caused the death of 60% of the forums.
The huge influx of noobs using the DDO forum to post everything occured about the same time the fanfics were in their hayday, and it caused the forums to not be utilitzed.
It seems game, religion, and politics/society (and not even always then) are the major ones used anymore.
Everything else seems to go into personal or DDO.

And, to be fair, the spam does not help.
My work here is, finally, done.
YYW
Posts: 36,256
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12/9/2014 11:16:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 11:04:31 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:56:55 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/9/2014 10:50:05 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I will point out that the only way to get better as a writer is for one to insult your writing at some point.

That is not true at all; like, not only is it not true, it's actually counterproductive to the end that it purports to achieve.

The way for people to become better writers is to read and emulate good fiction, not for random people who may or may not have any concept of what good writing looks like to opine upon it and voice their derision.

Some people may benefit from suggestions, but it's really not conceivable that the insults readers who may or may not know what good writing looks like would in any way improve anyone's writing ability. More likely it is the case that insults like that are going to just make someone stop writing.

I disagree. It is not simply about emulation. In fact, I would argue that emulating others will only undermine your own inate skills because you'll just copy someone elses style. I'm not saying you need to take every insult at face value but every once in a while someone needs to put your work down and say "Well Grant this is absolute crap.' If no one ever says that then you'll never change, or you won't change as quickly or deeply as you might.

I didn't know you were an English major, Grant. Have you ever taken any formal writing classes? Do you have any experience writing... anything other than a blog?
Tsar of DDO