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Esocial on the elections

ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,354
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12/9/2014 7:34:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hi there everyone... As you might've noticed, I've made several very serious campaigns, and haven't really given my opinion on either Eddie or Mikal. I have the utmost respect for both of them, and like them both a lot. I have yet to decide who to vote for...

After speaking to several people, I decided to post my thought since everyone has decided to annoyingly make their own thread to show who they're supporting so why not drown the forums with it, right?!

WARNING: I haven't kept up with all the election threads... so this may be poorly informed, or include errors, feel free to point them out- please and thank you's!

On the topic of Imabench, because I think this is one of the crucial parts of this decision incumbently:

Imabench, yes, is a troll. He isn't that serious. But he does put in a lot of work for the site, as seen in his establishment of the "Fanfic era" and TWS.

However, I don't like how he handles his interactions with RM. I am no better- which is why I would never run for presidency, but seeing his blatant harshness towards those he deems unfit to use the site, two situations come to mind:

I. The ends justify the means:

Bench does what he has to in order to get what he believes in. He is willing to work hard for what he is passionate about.

II. His immaturity and trolling might cost him (and Mikal) the election:

Bench handles things his way, which by some is seen as immature and childish, as in his interactions with RM, where he harshly insults and has altercations (not that RM is innocent at all.)

On Bench's leaving the site again

This has sparked hella controversy.

I do think that if he wants to be an authoritative member of the site, he should be willing to be a member.

He has a track record for almost getting banned, which was the reason he left initially btw. What makes you think he won't actually commit bannable offenses?

Not to mention- are we going to forgive and forget his past actions and vote him for vice-president?

Is this election actually going to be whether Bench stays or not?

On Bladerunner's past office:

Eddie had many ideas, and these I feel the need to highlight:

I. Voting problem

Eddie volunteered to vote on any debate without a vote for a certain period, and somehow- he's kept up with it, most of the time. How? Don't ask me!
Mikal, however, also has a similar plan- to incorporate BoT's SCOD. However, that actually was BoT's idea and has been, for a good while, up and running, so while BoT might pledge support for Mikal, the SCOD isn't really a Mikal platform thing... It's going to be here, hopefully, regardless of who the president is.

II. Tournaments

During his time in office, Eddie *has* tries to have numerous cumpetitions and help introduce the AAN tourney. Mikal, however, IIRC, alongside romanii and a few others, were the ones who actually got the Tier Tournament up and running.

That however, is not to say, that Eddie's party failed to do this. Eddie and Bsh both tried to commence the AAN tournament, which I as a competitor, have to say was an excellent but imperfect idea. This tourney has a long way to go- in terms of planning, especially with time. As we can see, the previous attempt led to lasting more than a month, causing many to drop out.

My recommendation for this is that we have "classes" for those who want to learn, or improve debating. We can have each excellent debater who is willing, write a little on tips for debating etc, to compile a forum so that it can be shared to noobs. With this, the noobs can THEN go on into small competitions, instead of instantaneously being thrown to the sharks.

Bsh also initiated the Beginner's mafia program, which has attracted some people to the site even!

III. "Juggle relationship"

In several forums, I noticed members saying that Eddie and Juggle already have an established relationship, whereas Mikal would have to start afresh.

While I agree having this connection is useful, that does not make Mikal any less of a candidate- as change is inevitable and he *could* build a relationship between himself and Juggle.

On Mikal's ideas and charisma:

Yes, Mikal has charisma and ideas. It's strange to see most of them *now* showing up however, during election time.

Also, while it is great that he's coming up with ideas and what-not, I want to see action, not words [irony we're on a debating site xD]: a bite, not a bark. I hope Mikal can live up to the expectations he's set forward by so many.

On Cermank:

She's awesome. Nuf' said. I fully believe in her capabilities of being a great VP.

On both COSs

Yar. They be epic too.

More to say...

But I forgot so...

tl dr

Annie procrastinating wrapping Christmas presents, because mother lurking... XD
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
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12/9/2014 7:37:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why was RationalMadman targeted in the first place? Why did he have any less of a right to use DDO than Imabench did?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,354
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12/9/2014 7:42:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 7:37:47 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why was RationalMadman targeted in the first place?
No idea, but I do think the banter between RM and Bench has gotten out of hand, as far as I know- with the death threats and messages.
Why did he have any less of a right to use DDO than Imabench did?
I wasn't around here the time he first got banned... I think. Or I didn't notice. *shrugs*
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,354
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12/9/2014 7:49:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Guys... it's for 6 months? CALM THE FUKE DOWN!!!
O.O
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
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12/9/2014 7:49:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 7:42:10 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 12/9/2014 7:37:47 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why was RationalMadman targeted in the first place?
No idea, but I do think the banter between RM and Bench has gotten out of hand, as far as I know- with the death threats and messages.
Why did he have any less of a right to use DDO than Imabench did?
I wasn't around here the time he first got banned... I think. Or I didn't notice. *shrugs*

I've seen it time and time again: members being deemed "toxic" and either driven off DDO or brutally harassed.

-Jifpop09
-Truth_Seeker (ESPECIALLY him)
-Progressivedem22
-Adam2

Such people have those certain kinds of personalities which are anti-social, perhaps even sociopathic. However, they should not be condemned for this. They should be encouraged to change.
Now, some people, like Negroid, are blatant trolls and should be banned. But all this talk about "getting rid of toxic members" is absurd. There's too much of that already.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,354
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12/9/2014 7:53:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 7:49:46 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 12/9/2014 7:42:10 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 12/9/2014 7:37:47 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why was RationalMadman targeted in the first place?
No idea, but I do think the banter between RM and Bench has gotten out of hand, as far as I know- with the death threats and messages.
Why did he have any less of a right to use DDO than Imabench did?
I wasn't around here the time he first got banned... I think. Or I didn't notice. *shrugs*

I've seen it time and time again: members being deemed "toxic" and either driven off DDO or brutally harassed.

-Jifpop09
-Truth_Seeker (ESPECIALLY him)
-Progressivedem22
-Adam2

Such people have those certain kinds of personalities which are anti-social, perhaps even sociopathic. However, they should not be condemned for this. They should be encouraged to change.
Now, some people, like Negroid, are blatant trolls and should be banned. But all this talk about "getting rid of toxic members" is absurd. There's too much of that already.

I think though, that nobody is truly run off the site- it's their decision to leave or not.

I have some respect for TS for staying on here, while many members don't favour him, and carrying on with his life.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
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12/9/2014 7:56:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 7:53:53 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 12/9/2014 7:49:46 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 12/9/2014 7:42:10 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 12/9/2014 7:37:47 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Why was RationalMadman targeted in the first place?
No idea, but I do think the banter between RM and Bench has gotten out of hand, as far as I know- with the death threats and messages.
Why did he have any less of a right to use DDO than Imabench did?
I wasn't around here the time he first got banned... I think. Or I didn't notice. *shrugs*

I've seen it time and time again: members being deemed "toxic" and either driven off DDO or brutally harassed.

-Jifpop09
-Truth_Seeker (ESPECIALLY him)
-Progressivedem22
-Adam2

Such people have those certain kinds of personalities which are anti-social, perhaps even sociopathic. However, they should not be condemned for this. They should be encouraged to change.
Now, some people, like Negroid, are blatant trolls and should be banned. But all this talk about "getting rid of toxic members" is absurd. There's too much of that already.

I think though, that nobody is truly run off the site- it's their decision to leave or not.

I have some respect for TS for staying on here, while many members don't favour him, and carrying on with his life.

Truth_Seeker made a mistake, and he's probably emotionally unstable as well as possessing a fierce temper, but I don't think he had bad intentions. He didn't deserve to be treated the way he was.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Mikal
Posts: 11,269
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12/9/2014 8:00:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 7:34:55 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
Hi there everyone... As you might've noticed, I've made several very serious campaigns, and haven't really given my opinion on either Eddie or Mikal. I have the utmost respect for both of them, and like them both a lot. I have yet to decide who to vote for...

After speaking to several people, I decided to post my thought since everyone has decided to annoyingly make their own thread to show who they're supporting so why not drown the forums with it, right?!

WARNING: I haven't kept up with all the election threads... so this may be poorly informed, or include errors, feel free to point them out- please and thank you's!

On the topic of Imabench, because I think this is one of the crucial parts of this decision incumbently:

Imabench, yes, is a troll. He isn't that serious. But he does put in a lot of work for the site, as seen in his establishment of the "Fanfic era" and TWS.

However, I don't like how he handles his interactions with RM. I am no better- which is why I would never run for presidency, but seeing his blatant harshness towards those he deems unfit to use the site, two situations come to mind:

I. The ends justify the means:

Bench does what he has to in order to get what he believes in. He is willing to work hard for what he is passionate about.

II. His immaturity and trolling might cost him (and Mikal) the election:

Bench handles things his way, which by some is seen as immature and childish, as in his interactions with RM, where he harshly insults and has altercations (not that RM is innocent at all.)

On Bench's leaving the site again

This has sparked hella controversy.

I do think that if he wants to be an authoritative member of the site, he should be willing to be a member.

He has a track record for almost getting banned, which was the reason he left initially btw. What makes you think he won't actually commit bannable offenses?

Not to mention- are we going to forgive and forget his past actions and vote him for vice-president?

Is this election actually going to be whether Bench stays or not?

On Ima ; See my interview with Danielle. I think i did a pretty good job explaining everything you just mentioned

On Bladerunner's past office:

Eddie had many ideas, and these I feel the need to highlight:

I. Voting problem

Eddie volunteered to vote on any debate without a vote for a certain period, and somehow- he's kept up with it, most of the time. How? Don't ask me!
Mikal, however, also has a similar plan- to incorporate BoT's SCOD. However, that actually was BoT's idea and has been, for a good while, up and running, so while BoT might pledge support for Mikal, the SCOD isn't really a Mikal platform thing... It's going to be here, hopefully, regardless of who the president is.

II. Tournaments

During his time in office, Eddie *has* tries to have numerous cumpetitions and help introduce the AAN tourney. Mikal, however, IIRC, alongside romanii and a few others, were the ones who actually got the Tier Tournament up and running.

That however, is not to say, that Eddie's party failed to do this. Eddie and Bsh both tried to commence the AAN tournament, which I as a competitor, have to say was an excellent but imperfect idea. This tourney has a long way to go- in terms of planning, especially with time. As we can see, the previous attempt led to lasting more than a month, causing many to drop out.

My recommendation for this is that we have "classes" for those who want to learn, or improve debating. We can have each excellent debater who is willing, write a little on tips for debating etc, to compile a forum so that it can be shared to noobs. With this, the noobs can THEN go on into small competitions, instead of instantaneously being thrown to the sharks.

Bsh also initiated the Beginner's mafia program, which has attracted some people to the site even!

III. "Juggle relationship"

In several forums, I noticed members saying that Eddie and Juggle already have an established relationship, whereas Mikal would have to start afresh.

While I agree having this connection is useful, that does not make Mikal any less of a candidate- as change is inevitable and he *could* build a relationship between himself and Juggle.

I can build a relationship . There have been far more controversial presidents than me that had a working relationship after being elect.

Plus having a working relationship with a entity that is absent all together, is the equivalent of nothing. What good is a working relationship if they just said "we have no resources, let's devote our efforts else where. From that point its about the most realistic promises, who can implement them, and who can live up to what they say. That is me

On Mikal's ideas and charisma:

Yes, Mikal has charisma and ideas. It's strange to see most of them *now* showing up however, during election time.

Also, while it is great that he's coming up with ideas and what-not, I want to see action, not words [irony we're on a debating site xD]: a bite, not a bark. I hope Mikal can live up to the expectations he's set forward by so many.

When I have not. I pioneered google hangouts, ran different threads of praise, ran tournies, invented MR and MRS DDO, along with countless other things. Add that to the fact I achieve my goals, I know I can and will live up to expectations. All my ideas have never stopped since I joined the site, and they will continue after the election. That is a part of me

On Cermank:

She's awesome. Nuf' said. I fully believe in her capabilities of being a great VP.

On both COSs

Yar. They be epic too.


More to say...

But I forgot so...


tl dr

Annie procrastinating wrapping Christmas presents, because mother lurking... XD
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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12/9/2014 8:09:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Honestly having modded quite a few mafia games, the success of the game is dependent on how fast you keep it moving along as a mod. People lose interest if you take too long between day phases. The same is true of tournaments. Taking too long between each debate is a failing of the planner.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,354
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12/9/2014 8:12:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 8:09:47 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Honestly having modded quite a few mafia games, the success of the game is dependent on how fast you keep it moving along as a mod. People lose interest if you take too long between day phases. The same is true of tournaments. Taking too long between each debate is a failing of the planner.

True- however, you're not gonna have something perfectly come out on the first try all the time. There'll be bumps- and that's how you learn to modify or update to get better.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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12/9/2014 8:14:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I like the idea of classes but I think it should be live teaching not just another random thread somewhere that is tl;dr. I think it'd be cool to do a Kahn academy type thing with the sites top debaters with like one teaching research skills, another teaching formatting, another teaching rebuttals, another teaching framework, etc. And also a thread where noobs can ask specific questions without being judged or ask people to read over a draft argument and offer suggestions.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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12/9/2014 8:17:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2014 8:12:58 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 12/9/2014 8:09:47 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Honestly having modded quite a few mafia games, the success of the game is dependent on how fast you keep it moving along as a mod. People lose interest if you take too long between day phases. The same is true of tournaments. Taking too long between each debate is a failing of the planner.

True- however, you're not gonna have something perfectly come out on the first try all the time. There'll be bumps- and that's how you learn to modify or update to get better.

I know I could run an AAN tournament right the first time. You also don't even have that experiential knowledge because bsh left the administration. I'd hope someone didn't need three terms just to perfect one of their three past campaign promises.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)