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Institutionalized Stigmatization on DDO?

The_Fool_on_the_hill
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12/10/2014 3:48:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Against Institutionalized Stigmatization on DDO

The Fool: Mikal/Bluesteel really expect people to vote to implement the feminist construct of "toxic masculinity", in the form of "toxic member" to demonize debate members of the website which are of course mostly male, as a type of DDO purification process, for our own best interest? Fvck that noise..

They want to implement policies which allow past flags, and Temp bans accessible to everybody. So let"s say you"ve got in a previous polemic argument with somebody in the past you carry the negative stigmatization with you everywhere, forever as if you haven"t gotten any better.

Some of my personal experiences:

When I first got here I used to argue with the Christians a lot, about proofs of God. After a while this group got so frustrated with me, that they would start complaining that I"m harassing them, when I was giving rational arguments, but the moderator at the time was a Christian. I never really did anything wrong, but they would gang complain, to get me banned. And then they would always team up and vote Bomb my god debates. And so you think it"s Justified that people should carry a stigmatization, which may be unjust,To have their voices silence and no longer be heard out, even when they have paid their dues, by being banned, and/or if they have changed.

People "ought" be allowed to redeem themselves. Were not talking about job applications, were talking forum debates. And people like bluesteel are the very type to abuse this. Any just person should prevent enforcement of these "thought policing" tactics in a place where ideas should flourish.

Against the ideologist

Another Reason To Vote For Blade
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
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12/10/2014 4:00:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't see how past flags and temp bans stigmatize you o.o. Can you elaborate on the whole toxic member thing.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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12/10/2014 4:06:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2014 4:00:54 AM, headphonegut wrote:
headphonegut : I don't see how past flags and temp bans stigmatize you o.o. Can you elaborate on the whole toxic member thing.

The Fool: Having them being accessible to everybody, all the time. I admit, DDO has become a lot more tolerant since then, but there's still something Morally wrong with not allowing people to redeem themselves, from past mistakes.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
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12/10/2014 4:09:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2014 4:06:27 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 12/10/2014 4:00:54 AM, headphonegut wrote:
headphonegut : I don't see how past flags and temp bans stigmatize you o.o. Can you elaborate on the whole toxic member thing.

The Fool: Having them being accessible to everybody, all the time. I admit, DDO has become a lot more tolerant since then, but there's still something Morally wrong with not allowing people to redeem themselves, from past mistakes.

A person can only be redeemed of a past mistake if people know the mistake mate. No clue what morality has to do with it to be completely honest.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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12/10/2014 4:19:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2014 4:09:57 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/10/2014 4:06:27 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 12/10/2014 4:00:54 AM, headphonegut wrote:
headphonegut : I don't see how past flags and temp bans stigmatize you o.o. Can you elaborate on the whole toxic member thing.

The Fool: Having them being accessible to everybody, all the time. I admit, DDO has become a lot more tolerant since then, but there's still something Morally wrong with not allowing people to redeem themselves, from past mistakes.

A person can only be redeemed of a past mistake if people know the mistake mate. No clue what morality has to do with it to be completely honest.

The Fool: For example, when somebody commits a crime, they go to jail, and they pay their dues in time, that's the point of jail. So they are no longer in debt to the state.
However If they then go to a job interview. The employer has the right to ask them about their criminal record. However, this is not a job interview it's just a debate forum. There is no social media, such as Twitter, where people have been banned multiple times, where people have access to this.

DDO members have paid their dues, when they were banned, so they no longer owe anybody anything. In fact the more I think about it the more ridiculous it sounds. It's absolutely ridiculous.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
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12/10/2014 4:34:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2014 4:19:28 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 12/10/2014 4:09:57 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/10/2014 4:06:27 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 12/10/2014 4:00:54 AM, headphonegut wrote:
headphonegut : I don't see how past flags and temp bans stigmatize you o.o. Can you elaborate on the whole toxic member thing.

The Fool: Having them being accessible to everybody, all the time. I admit, DDO has become a lot more tolerant since then, but there's still something Morally wrong with not allowing people to redeem themselves, from past mistakes.

A person can only be redeemed of a past mistake if people know the mistake mate. No clue what morality has to do with it to be completely honest.

The Fool: For example, when somebody commits a crime, they go to jail, and they pay their dues in time, that's the point of jail. So they are no longer in debt to the state.
However If they then go to a job interview. The employer has the right to ask them about their criminal record. However, this is not a job interview it's just a debate forum. There is no social media, such as Twitter, where people have been banned multiple times, where people have access to this.

DDO members have paid their dues, when they were banned, so they no longer owe anybody anything. In fact the more I think about it the more ridiculous it sounds. It's absolutely ridiculous.

So we're dropping the redemption thing? Alright. If this isn't a jail and is a debate forum then the analogy isn't a fair one and you are just using it for your own gain. No? Let's say I agree with you because I do. I don't see how it matters how are you (specifically) stigmatized by having people know you were banned at one time? Will people change their view of you? Probably not, being banned isn't the end all of 'moral' upstanding.

When someone commits a crime they committed an actual offense against society. When you get banned you violated the ToS. The difference is night and day.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/10/2014 5:25:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2014 3:48:28 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Against Institutionalized Stigmatization on DDO

The Fool: Mikal/Bluesteel really expect people to vote to implement the feminist construct of "toxic masculinity", in the form of "toxic member" to demonize debate members of the website which are of course mostly male, as a type of DDO purification process, for our own best interest? Fvck that noise..

They want to implement policies which allow past flags, and Temp bans accessible to everybody. So let"s say you"ve got in a previous polemic argument with somebody in the past you carry the negative stigmatization with you everywhere, forever as if you haven"t gotten any better.

Some of my personal experiences:

When I first got here I used to argue with the Christians a lot, about proofs of God. After a while this group got so frustrated with me, that they would start complaining that I"m harassing them, when I was giving rational arguments, but the moderator at the time was a Christian. I never really did anything wrong, but they would gang complain, to get me banned. And then they would always team up and vote Bomb my god debates. And so you think it"s Justified that people should carry a stigmatization, which may be unjust,To have their voices silence and no longer be heard out, even when they have paid their dues, by being banned, and/or if they have changed.

People "ought" be allowed to redeem themselves. Were not talking about job applications, were talking forum debates. And people like bluesteel are the very type to abuse this. Any just person should prevent enforcement of these "thought policing" tactics in a place where ideas should flourish.

Against the ideologist

Another Reason To Vote For Blade



Thought policing?

All their saying is people who try to shut down conversation with insults and harassment should receive a warning and then slowly progress to temp bans and so on.

This is actually conducive to people not being afraid to share controversial opinions.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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12/10/2014 5:26:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2014 4:34:00 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/10/2014 4:19:28 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 12/10/2014 4:09:57 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/10/2014 4:06:27 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 12/10/2014 4:00:54 AM, headphonegut wrote:
headphonegut : I don't see how past flags and temp bans stigmatize you o.o. Can you elaborate on the whole toxic member thing.

The Fool: Having them being accessible to everybody, all the time. I admit, DDO has become a lot more tolerant since then, but there's still something Morally wrong with not allowing people to redeem themselves, from past mistakes.

A person can only be redeemed of a past mistake if people know the mistake mate. No clue what morality has to do with it to be completely honest.

The Fool: For example, when somebody commits a crime, they go to jail, and they pay their dues in time, that's the point of jail. So they are no longer in debt to the state.
However If they then go to a job interview. The employer has the right to ask them about their criminal record. However, this is not a job interview it's just a debate forum. There is no social media, such as Twitter, where people have been banned multiple times, where people have access to this.

DDO members have paid their dues, when they were banned, so they no longer owe anybody anything. In fact the more I think about it the more ridiculous it sounds. It's absolutely ridiculous.

So we're dropping the redemption thing?

The Fool: One is redeemed after the ban or the jail time has been served.

headphonegut: Alright. If this isn't a jail and is a debate forum then the analogy isn't a fair on

The Fool: It is a fair one. The point I am making is that implementing that here would be treating people worse then actual criminals.

headphonegut: and you are just using it for your own gain. No?

The Fool: What is my own GAIN here?

headphonegut: Let's say I agree with you because I do. I don't see how it matters how are you (specifically) stigmatized by having people know you were banned at one time? Will people change their view of you?

The Fool: The purpose of the website is to challenge ideas. And many are not going to like to be challenged. The history of banning serves not POSITIVE purpose while increasing the likeliness for people to right off legitimate criticisms, by ad-hominem, since ones history has nothing to do with the legitimacy of ones argument.

headphonegut: Probably not, being banned isn't the end all of 'moral' upstanding.

The Fool: It doesn't matter if its Hitler himself, if the argument follows then it follows. Therefore there is no good reason to have it at all, but for it to be use to shame people an stigmatize people. It's unnecessary and its IMMORAL, Because it only serves for people to get-off on the shame and therefore suffering of others.

headphonegut:: When someone commits a crime they committed an actual offense against society.

The Fool: It can simply be against a person.

headphonegut:When you get banned you violated the ToS. The difference is night and day.

The Fool: No the latter is just TEXT letters on a computer screen. Nobody is in any REAL danger.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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12/10/2014 5:28:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2014 5:25:17 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:48:28 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Against Institutionalized Stigmatization on DDO

The Fool: Mikal/Bluesteel really expect people to vote to implement the feminist construct of "toxic masculinity", in the form of "toxic member" to demonize debate members of the website which are of course mostly male, as a type of DDO purification process, for our own best interest? Fvck that noise..

They want to implement policies which allow past flags, and Temp bans accessible to everybody. So let"s say you"ve got in a previous polemic argument with somebody in the past you carry the negative stigmatization with you everywhere, forever as if you haven"t gotten any better.

Some of my personal experiences:

When I first got here I used to argue with the Christians a lot, about proofs of God. After a while this group got so frustrated with me, that they would start complaining that I"m harassing them, when I was giving rational arguments, but the moderator at the time was a Christian. I never really did anything wrong, but they would gang complain, to get me banned. And then they would always team up and vote Bomb my god debates. And so you think it"s Justified that people should carry a stigmatization, which may be unjust,To have their voices silence and no longer be heard out, even when they have paid their dues, by being banned, and/or if they have changed.

People "ought" be allowed to redeem themselves. Were not talking about job applications, were talking forum debates. And people like bluesteel are the very type to abuse this. Any just person should prevent enforcement of these "thought policing" tactics in a place where ideas should flourish.

Against the ideologist

Another Reason To Vote For Blade



Thought policing?

All their saying is people who try to shut down conversation with insults and harassment should receive a warning and then slowly progress to temp bans and so on.

Wylted : This is actually conducive to people not being afraid to share controversial opinions.

The Fool: I agree with that. We already had that. But not with everybody always having access to it.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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12/10/2014 5:33:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2014 5:25:17 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:48:28 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Against Institutionalized Stigmatization on DDO

The Fool: Mikal/Bluesteel really expect people to vote to implement the feminist construct of "toxic masculinity", in the form of "toxic member" to demonize debate members of the website which are of course mostly male, as a type of DDO purification process, for our own best interest? Fvck that noise..

They want to implement policies which allow past flags, and Temp bans accessible to everybody. So let"s say you"ve got in a previous polemic argument with somebody in the past you carry the negative stigmatization with you everywhere, forever as if you haven"t gotten any better.

Some of my personal experiences:

When I first got here I used to argue with the Christians a lot, about proofs of God. After a while this group got so frustrated with me, that they would start complaining that I"m harassing them, when I was giving rational arguments, but the moderator at the time was a Christian. I never really did anything wrong, but they would gang complain, to get me banned. And then they would always team up and vote Bomb my god debates. And so you think it"s Justified that people should carry a stigmatization, which may be unjust,To have their voices silence and no longer be heard out, even when they have paid their dues, by being banned, and/or if they have changed.

People "ought" be allowed to redeem themselves. Were not talking about job applications, were talking forum debates. And people like bluesteel are the very type to abuse this. Any just person should prevent enforcement of these "thought policing" tactics in a place where ideas should flourish.

Against the ideologist

Another Reason To Vote For Blade



Thought policing?

All their saying is people who try to shut down conversation with insults and harassment should receive a warning and then slowly progress to temp bans and so on.

This is actually conducive to people not being afraid to share controversial opinions.

The Fool: That is I don't agree with others having the access to the history of others warning and banning, to be hung over there head,, ridiculed and dismissed, on those grounds alone... It will happen.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/10/2014 5:45:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2014 5:33:35 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 12/10/2014 5:25:17 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/10/2014 3:48:28 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
Against Institutionalized Stigmatization on DDO

The Fool: Mikal/Bluesteel really expect people to vote to implement the feminist construct of "toxic masculinity", in the form of "toxic member" to demonize debate members of the website which are of course mostly male, as a type of DDO purification process, for our own best interest? Fvck that noise..

They want to implement policies which allow past flags, and Temp bans accessible to everybody. So let"s say you"ve got in a previous polemic argument with somebody in the past you carry the negative stigmatization with you everywhere, forever as if you haven"t gotten any better.

Some of my personal experiences:

When I first got here I used to argue with the Christians a lot, about proofs of God. After a while this group got so frustrated with me, that they would start complaining that I"m harassing them, when I was giving rational arguments, but the moderator at the time was a Christian. I never really did anything wrong, but they would gang complain, to get me banned. And then they would always team up and vote Bomb my god debates. And so you think it"s Justified that people should carry a stigmatization, which may be unjust,To have their voices silence and no longer be heard out, even when they have paid their dues, by being banned, and/or if they have changed.

People "ought" be allowed to redeem themselves. Were not talking about job applications, were talking forum debates. And people like bluesteel are the very type to abuse this. Any just person should prevent enforcement of these "thought policing" tactics in a place where ideas should flourish.

Against the ideologist

Another Reason To Vote For Blade



Thought policing?

All their saying is people who try to shut down conversation with insults and harassment should receive a warning and then slowly progress to temp bans and so on.

This is actually conducive to people not being afraid to share controversial opinions.

The Fool: That is I don't agree with others having the access to the history of others warning and banning, to be hung over there head,, ridiculed and dismissed, on those grounds alone... It will happen.

I want any banning I receive in the open. I don't like how anyone on the site can just disappear for a month.

You become close friends with these people and the Mods make them disappear without making any public announcement and you have to worry about whether they're even alive or not.

The mod's power to make people disappear is scary.