Total Posts:29|Showing Posts:1-29
Jump to topic:

A proposal...

bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:26:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
No contacting a voter after their vote is cast. Goes for both sides. Pretty straightforward honestly. It's undemocratic. This is why we have secret ballots in real elections. I said before I didn't think secret ballots were necessary but I guess I didn't realize people would go to such lengths.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
YYW
Posts: 36,392
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:27:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:26:53 PM, bluesteel wrote:
No contacting a voter after their vote is cast. Goes for both sides. Pretty straightforward honestly. It's undemocratic. This is why we have secret ballots in real elections. I said before I didn't think secret ballots were necessary but I guess I didn't realize people would go to such lengths.

Are people actually doing that?
Tsar of DDO
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:29:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Who the fvck is doing that? Those are serious charges, voter coercion and sh!t.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:30:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:27:23 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:26:53 PM, bluesteel wrote:
No contacting a voter after their vote is cast. Goes for both sides. Pretty straightforward honestly. It's undemocratic. This is why we have secret ballots in real elections. I said before I didn't think secret ballots were necessary but I guess I didn't realize people would go to such lengths.

Are people actually doing that?

Yes on both sides.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Mikal
Posts: 11,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:31:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:29:34 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Who the fvck is doing that? Those are serious charges, voter coercion and sh!t.

A guy that voted for me got a 9 page rebuttal why he should not vote for me and why im not fit to serve

im fine with saying he maybe think about who you should vote for but come on
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:31:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:30:04 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:27:23 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:26:53 PM, bluesteel wrote:
No contacting a voter after their vote is cast. Goes for both sides. Pretty straightforward honestly. It's undemocratic. This is why we have secret ballots in real elections. I said before I didn't think secret ballots were necessary but I guess I didn't realize people would go to such lengths.

Are people actually doing that?

Yes on both sides.

I don't wants it done on my behalf nor do I think blade wants it done on his.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Mikal
Posts: 11,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:31:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:31:07 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:29:34 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Who the fvck is doing that? Those are serious charges, voter coercion and sh!t.

A guy that voted for me got a 9 page rebuttal why he should not vote for me and why im not fit to serve

im fine with saying he maybe think about who you should vote for but come on

*paragraph
YYW
Posts: 36,392
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:32:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:31:07 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:29:34 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Who the fvck is doing that? Those are serious charges, voter coercion and sh!t.

A guy that voted for me got a 9 page rebuttal why he should not vote for me and why im not fit to serve

im fine with saying he maybe think about who you should vote for but come on

PM me what happened.
Tsar of DDO
Raisor
Posts: 4,466
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:35:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why is this undemocratic?

Trying to convince people to change their votes is undemocratic?

If there is actual harassment going on that is a problem, but simply PMing people about their vote isn't harassment.

If this is an actual concern this is the wrong way to go about solving the problem. Making a public call out thread turns this is into a political issue.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:36:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I got a total 5 PMs in election-related matters. All of them were in good taste and tone, so...I've been spared from harassment...
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:36:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:35:04 PM, Raisor wrote:
Why is this undemocratic?

Trying to convince people to change their votes is undemocratic?

If there is actual harassment going on that is a problem, but simply PMing people about their vote isn't harassment.

If this is an actual concern this is the wrong way to go about solving the problem. Making a public call out thread turns this is into a political issue.

So. What you're saying is. People should make call out threads?
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
Raisor
Posts: 4,466
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:38:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:36:38 PM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:35:04 PM, Raisor wrote:
Why is this undemocratic?

Trying to convince people to change their votes is undemocratic?

If there is actual harassment going on that is a problem, but simply PMing people about their vote isn't harassment.

If this is an actual concern this is the wrong way to go about solving the problem. Making a public call out thread turns this is into a political issue.

So. What you're saying is. People should make call out threads?

No I am explicitly saying Mikal should NOT have made this call out thread. That is why I said this thread is the wrong way to go about solving the problem.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:38:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:35:04 PM, Raisor wrote:
Why is this undemocratic?

Because post-vote persuasion is a form of political malpractice.

Trying to convince people to change their votes is undemocratic?

Yes, that is why all democratic votes are collected by secret ballot, which should have been done here.


If there is actual harassment going on that is a problem, but simply PMing people about their vote isn't harassment.

The accusation was one of harassment to the point of bullying people off the site.

If this is an actual concern this is the wrong way to go about solving the problem. Making a public call out thread turns this is into a political issue.

Of course it is a political issue. Its an election.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:39:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:27:23 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:26:53 PM, bluesteel wrote:
No contacting a voter after their vote is cast. Goes for both sides. Pretty straightforward honestly. It's undemocratic. This is why we have secret ballots in real elections. I said before I didn't think secret ballots were necessary but I guess I didn't realize people would go to such lengths.

Are people actually doing that?

I can confirm it on my part.
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:41:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:38:22 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:36:38 PM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:35:04 PM, Raisor wrote:
Why is this undemocratic?

Trying to convince people to change their votes is undemocratic?

If there is actual harassment going on that is a problem, but simply PMing people about their vote isn't harassment.

If this is an actual concern this is the wrong way to go about solving the problem. Making a public call out thread turns this is into a political issue.

So. What you're saying is. People should make call out threads?

No I am explicitly saying Mikal should NOT have made this call out thread. That is why I said this thread is the wrong way to go about solving the problem.

So you admit it's a problem? I was about to say what problem? I don't see an issue with people PMing someone about their vote the block button is so conveniently located.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
Raisor
Posts: 4,466
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:43:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:38:35 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:35:04 PM, Raisor wrote:
Why is this undemocratic?

Because post-vote persuasion is a form of political malpractice.

Why is it a form of political malpractice. I am asking for a justification for this claim.

Trying to convince people to change their votes is undemocratic?

Yes, that is why all democratic votes are collected by secret ballot, which should have been done here.

There are many justifications for a secret ballot.



If there is actual harassment going on that is a problem, but simply PMing people about their vote isn't harassment.

The accusation was one of harassment to the point of bullying people off the site.

That is unacceptable, but harassment on any topic for any reason is unacceptable. That some people are harassing to chang their vote doesn't mean the practice as a whole is wrong. The harassment is what is wrong, not the topic of discussion.


If this is an actual concern this is the wrong way to go about solving the problem. Making a public call out thread turns this is into a political issue.

Of course it is a political issue. Its an election.

Both sides are doing this, but this thread frames the issue as though blade's side is more guilty. The nature of the thread turns this practice into a reason to vote for one side.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:43:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:35:04 PM, Raisor wrote:
Why is this undemocratic?

Trying to convince people to change their votes is undemocratic?

If there is actual harassment going on that is a problem, but simply PMing people about their vote isn't harassment.

If this is an actual concern this is the wrong way to go about solving the problem. Making a public call out thread turns this is into a political issue.

I haven't called anyone out. It has to be public to the extent that people not within each candidates inner circle also need to know to not do this. I don't know how you can call this political. I called out supporters of both candidates for doing this.

And I completely disagree raisor. Once someone has made up their mind enough to vote, that's the end of it. Before we had a secret ballot in the US, we had "bandwagons" where people would drive voters to the polling place, show them a good time while riding on what was essentially a party bus but in wagon form, then stare over their shoulder until they voted the "right" way. A one on one PM is especially suspectable to undue influence post-vote. There are more subtle forms of coercion than outright threats and harassment.

And keep in my mind, some people on this site are just kids. They don't have your resolve raisor to tell someone to duck off if they don't want to be pressured to change their vote.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:45:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:43:51 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:35:04 PM, Raisor wrote:
Why is this undemocratic?

Trying to convince people to change their votes is undemocratic?

If there is actual harassment going on that is a problem, but simply PMing people about their vote isn't harassment.

If this is an actual concern this is the wrong way to go about solving the problem. Making a public call out thread turns this is into a political issue.

I haven't called anyone out. It has to be public to the extent that people not within each candidates inner circle also need to know to not do this. I don't know how you can call this political. I called out supporters of both candidates for doing this.

And I completely disagree raisor. Once someone has made up their mind enough to vote, that's the end of it. Before we had a secret ballot in the US, we had "bandwagons" where people would drive voters to the polling place, show them a good time while riding on what was essentially a party bus but in wagon form, then stare over their shoulder until they voted the "right" way. A one on one PM is especially suspectable to undue influence post-vote. There are more subtle forms of coercion than outright threats and harassment.

And keep in my mind, some people on this site are just kids. They don't have your resolve raisor to tell someone to duck off if they don't want to be pressured to change their vote.

I do.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Raisor
Posts: 4,466
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:46:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:41:23 PM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:38:22 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:36:38 PM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:35:04 PM, Raisor wrote:
Why is this undemocratic?

Trying to convince people to change their votes is undemocratic?

If there is actual harassment going on that is a problem, but simply PMing people about their vote isn't harassment.

If this is an actual concern this is the wrong way to go about solving the problem. Making a public call out thread turns this is into a political issue.

So. What you're saying is. People should make call out threads?

No I am explicitly saying Mikal should NOT have made this call out thread. That is why I said this thread is the wrong way to go about solving the problem.

So you admit it's a problem? I was about to say what problem? I don't see an issue with people PMing someone about their vote the block button is so conveniently located.

Maybe I was not clear in my post. I do not think this is an issue. If there is harassment going on, that is an indpendent problem. I agree with you that people should block messages they find annoying. I think we agree here.
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:48:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:46:06 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:41:23 PM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:38:22 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:36:38 PM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:35:04 PM, Raisor wrote:
Why is this undemocratic?

Trying to convince people to change their votes is undemocratic?

If there is actual harassment going on that is a problem, but simply PMing people about their vote isn't harassment.

If this is an actual concern this is the wrong way to go about solving the problem. Making a public call out thread turns this is into a political issue.

So. What you're saying is. People should make call out threads?

No I am explicitly saying Mikal should NOT have made this call out thread. That is why I said this thread is the wrong way to go about solving the problem.

So you admit it's a problem? I was about to say what problem? I don't see an issue with people PMing someone about their vote the block button is so conveniently located.

Maybe I was not clear in my post. I do not think this is an issue. If there is harassment going on, that is an indpendent problem. I agree with you that people should block messages they find annoying. I think we agree here.

Mah nigga? This is a new experience for me gimme a second.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:52:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Do people realize this is an election for a debate website president or no?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 8:55:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:52:20 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Do people realize this is an election for a debate website president or no?

Hue. no :D
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
Raisor
Posts: 4,466
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 9:00:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:43:51 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:35:04 PM, Raisor wrote:
Why is this undemocratic?

Trying to convince people to change their votes is undemocratic?

If there is actual harassment going on that is a problem, but simply PMing people about their vote isn't harassment.

If this is an actual concern this is the wrong way to go about solving the problem. Making a public call out thread turns this is into a political issue.

I haven't called anyone out. It has to be public to the extent that people not within each candidates inner circle also need to know to not do this. I don't know how you can call this political. I called out supporters of both candidates for doing this.

And I completely disagree raisor. Once someone has made up their mind enough to vote, that's the end of it. Before we had a secret ballot in the US, we had "bandwagons" where people would drive voters to the polling place, show them a good time while riding on what was essentially a party bus but in wagon form, then stare over their shoulder until they voted the "right" way. A one on one PM is especially suspectable to undue influence post-vote. There are more subtle forms of coercion than outright threats and harassment.

And keep in my mind, some people on this site are just kids. They don't have your resolve raisor to tell someone to duck off if they don't want to be pressured to change their vote.

Those are all fair points.

When I mentioned a call out thread I was thinking of the thread Mikal made on this topic. I'd rather not get into how/why I think the issue is being framed because I think the substance of the question here is more interesting.

Where I disagree with you is in the claim "Once someone has made up their mind enough to vote, that's the end of it."

We both know that members unfamiliar with forums, new to the site, etc. are being pursued by both sides in this election by PM campaigning. These voters will only hear one side and if they vote will vote for whoever happened to contact them. I think it is fair to contact especially these voters to give them a chance to hear both sides. It is bad for democracy if a huge chunk of votes is decided simply by which candidate happened to pick their name out of the sea of new users.

DDO elections are different from real world elections- the DDO electorate is self selected such that the boundaries of it are impossible to discern. By targeting "new" members the candidates actually create new participants in the DDO political process. They take people who did not have a vested interest in the election and turn them into people who do. Essentially this type of campaigning conflates "registering to vote" with the actual vote itself. In fact, there were people trying to create voter eligibility by bumping up new user forum counts after the election started.

In real elections, the electorate is well defined by geography and demographics. In the US voters must register in advance and everyone in a geographic region has a vested political interest.

There are real differences between DO politics and US politics. These differences mean that different rules are required to create the most fair electoral process.

If your proposal were to go into effect, I would suggest there also be advance DDO voter registration. I think this is unnecessary though.
Raisor
Posts: 4,466
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 9:02:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:52:20 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Do people realize this is an election for a debate website president or no?

I'm really banking on that DDO presidential pardon in the future so I need to make sure the right candidate gets voted in.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 9:21:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 9:00:47 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:43:51 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:35:04 PM, Raisor wrote:
Why is this undemocratic?

Trying to convince people to change their votes is undemocratic?

If there is actual harassment going on that is a problem, but simply PMing people about their vote isn't harassment.

If this is an actual concern this is the wrong way to go about solving the problem. Making a public call out thread turns this is into a political issue.

I haven't called anyone out. It has to be public to the extent that people not within each candidates inner circle also need to know to not do this. I don't know how you can call this political. I called out supporters of both candidates for doing this.

And I completely disagree raisor. Once someone has made up their mind enough to vote, that's the end of it. Before we had a secret ballot in the US, we had "bandwagons" where people would drive voters to the polling place, show them a good time while riding on what was essentially a party bus but in wagon form, then stare over their shoulder until they voted the "right" way. A one on one PM is especially suspectable to undue influence post-vote. There are more subtle forms of coercion than outright threats and harassment.

And keep in my mind, some people on this site are just kids. They don't have your resolve raisor to tell someone to duck off if they don't want to be pressured to change their vote.

Those are all fair points.

When I mentioned a call out thread I was thinking of the thread Mikal made on this topic. I'd rather not get into how/why I think the issue is being framed because I think the substance of the question here is more interesting.

Where I disagree with you is in the claim "Once someone has made up their mind enough to vote, that's the end of it."

We both know that members unfamiliar with forums, new to the site, etc. are being pursued by both sides in this election by PM campaigning. These voters will only hear one side and if they vote will vote for whoever happened to contact them. I think it is fair to contact especially these voters to give them a chance to hear both sides. It is bad for democracy if a huge chunk of votes is decided simply by which candidate happened to pick their name out of the sea of new users.

DDO elections are different from real world elections- the DDO electorate is self selected such that the boundaries of it are impossible to discern. By targeting "new" members the candidates actually create new participants in the DDO political process. They take people who did not have a vested interest in the election and turn them into people who do. Essentially this type of campaigning conflates "registering to vote" with the actual vote itself. In fact, there were people trying to create voter eligibility by bumping up new user forum counts after the election started.

In real elections, the electorate is well defined by geography and demographics. In the US voters must register in advance and everyone in a geographic region has a vested political interest.

There are real differences between DO politics and US politics. These differences mean that different rules are required to create the most fair electoral process.

If your proposal were to go into effect, I would suggest there also be advance DDO voter registration. I think this is unnecessary though.

Your argument depends on only new users being contacted, which is not the case.

I agree with your points about the voter qualifications being flawed. That needs to be fixed next election. But as a theoretical tool, post vote contact is too subject to undue influence and it's an infinite regress. If the user is so easily swayed, both sides will keep contacting them and continually getting them to change their mind until they just get fed up with the political process. PMs are not a good forum for persuasion because the other side can't respond so theoretically you get infinite back and forth with each side trying to negate the point that just swayed that user.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,373
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 9:28:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:52:20 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Do people realize this is an election for a debate website president or no?

idts
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
Raisor
Posts: 4,466
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 9:31:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 9:21:29 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/13/2014 9:00:47 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:43:51 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/13/2014 8:35:04 PM, Raisor wrote:
Why is this undemocratic?

Trying to convince people to change their votes is undemocratic?

If there is actual harassment going on that is a problem, but simply PMing people about their vote isn't harassment.

If this is an actual concern this is the wrong way to go about solving the problem. Making a public call out thread turns this is into a political issue.

I haven't called anyone out. It has to be public to the extent that people not within each candidates inner circle also need to know to not do this. I don't know how you can call this political. I called out supporters of both candidates for doing this.

And I completely disagree raisor. Once someone has made up their mind enough to vote, that's the end of it. Before we had a secret ballot in the US, we had "bandwagons" where people would drive voters to the polling place, show them a good time while riding on what was essentially a party bus but in wagon form, then stare over their shoulder until they voted the "right" way. A one on one PM is especially suspectable to undue influence post-vote. There are more subtle forms of coercion than outright threats and harassment.

And keep in my mind, some people on this site are just kids. They don't have your resolve raisor to tell someone to duck off if they don't want to be pressured to change their vote.

Those are all fair points.

When I mentioned a call out thread I was thinking of the thread Mikal made on this topic. I'd rather not get into how/why I think the issue is being framed because I think the substance of the question here is more interesting.

Where I disagree with you is in the claim "Once someone has made up their mind enough to vote, that's the end of it."

We both know that members unfamiliar with forums, new to the site, etc. are being pursued by both sides in this election by PM campaigning. These voters will only hear one side and if they vote will vote for whoever happened to contact them. I think it is fair to contact especially these voters to give them a chance to hear both sides. It is bad for democracy if a huge chunk of votes is decided simply by which candidate happened to pick their name out of the sea of new users.

DDO elections are different from real world elections- the DDO electorate is self selected such that the boundaries of it are impossible to discern. By targeting "new" members the candidates actually create new participants in the DDO political process. They take people who did not have a vested interest in the election and turn them into people who do. Essentially this type of campaigning conflates "registering to vote" with the actual vote itself. In fact, there were people trying to create voter eligibility by bumping up new user forum counts after the election started.

In real elections, the electorate is well defined by geography and demographics. In the US voters must register in advance and everyone in a geographic region has a vested political interest.

There are real differences between DO politics and US politics. These differences mean that different rules are required to create the most fair electoral process.

If your proposal were to go into effect, I would suggest there also be advance DDO voter registration. I think this is unnecessary though.

Your argument depends on only new users being contacted, which is not the case.

I agree with your points about the voter qualifications being flawed. That needs to be fixed next election. But as a theoretical tool, post vote contact is too subject to undue influence and it's an infinite regress. If the user is so easily swayed, both sides will keep contacting them and continually getting them to change their mind until they just get fed up with the political process. PMs are not a good forum for persuasion because the other side can't respond so theoretically you get infinite back and forth with each side trying to negate the point that just swayed that user.

I mean that's not really an infinite regress, that's just a feature of how persuasion works is the real world. In reality users will probably make up their mind after being contacted by both sides.

Also if given the choice between a world where many voters are aware of only one side of the campaign vs a world where many voters have heard from both sides but where pestered into not voting at all, I would choose the later. At least the second option has a better informed electorate.

There are a lot of things that make people fed up with the political process that shouldn't necessarily be changed e.g. celebrity endorsements {looking at you Clint Eastwoord}.

I don't see how post-vote contact to undue influence. If anything I would imagine that being contacted after your vote is cast is much less effective than being contacted before.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/13/2014 9:39:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/13/2014 8:26:53 PM, bluesteel wrote:
No contacting a voter after their vote is cast. Goes for both sides. Pretty straightforward honestly. It's undemocratic. This is why we have secret ballots in real elections. I said before I didn't think secret ballots were necessary but I guess I didn't realize people would go to such lengths.

People are doing that? Only thing I've been contacted for is to vote for someone (and only one campaign contacted me, at that).