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Definition of an atheist

rougeagent21
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6/7/2010 10:49:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Greetings all.

Having talked with many atheists recently, I have picked up on a few different elements of atheism that seem to correlate. If you feel comfortable with your belief, (which you should if you truly believe it) then I would ask the atheists with free time to post a few key components of their religious or lack of religious beliefs. Your input is appreciated.
"I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country." -Gen. Patton
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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6/7/2010 11:17:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Atheism is simply non belief in god(s). That is it. There is no atheist ideology, doctrine, principles etc. That an atheist may advocate something, that many may advocate the same thing, does not in itself make it atheistic.
InsertNameHere
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6/7/2010 11:20:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:17:31 PM, Puck wrote:
Atheism is simply non belief in god(s). That is it. There is no atheist ideology, doctrine, principles etc. That an atheist may advocate something, that many may advocate the same thing, does not in itself make it atheistic.

Which is an argument many atheists will use to argue that atheism does count as a religion. It often takes as much faith to believe there isn't a God as it does to believe there is one so on this basis I believe atheism does qualify as a religion. Hey, to you guys religion is nothing more than just faith, right?
FREEDO
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6/7/2010 11:21:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 10:49:55 PM, rougeagent21 wrote:
Greetings all.

Having talked with many atheists recently, I have picked up on a few different elements of atheism that seem to correlate. If you feel comfortable with your belief, (which you should if you truly believe it) then I would ask the atheists with free time to post a few key components of their religious or lack of religious beliefs. Your input is appreciated.

Comfortable with my belief? Lol. Personally, my world-view is the complete lack of belief. The part which is a lack of believing in God is Atheism. That's it. That's all it is.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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6/7/2010 11:28:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:20:26 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:17:31 PM, Puck wrote:
Atheism is simply non belief in god(s). That is it. There is no atheist ideology, doctrine, principles etc. That an atheist may advocate something, that many may advocate the same thing, does not in itself make it atheistic.

Which is an argument many atheists will use to argue that atheism does count as a religion.

Atheism is a simple belief claim, a single one. It is not a religion. It is not a belief set.

It often takes as much faith to believe there isn't a God as it does to believe there is one

Existence and non belief are separate claims. An atheist may claim god does not exist, claiming god does not exist is not a prerequisite of atheism however.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/7/2010 11:30:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:28:10 PM, Puck wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:20:26 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:17:31 PM, Puck wrote:
Atheism is simply non belief in god(s). That is it. There is no atheist ideology, doctrine, principles etc. That an atheist may advocate something, that many may advocate the same thing, does not in itself make it atheistic.

Which is an argument many atheists will use to argue that atheism does count as a religion.

Atheism is a simple belief claim, a single one. It is not a religion. It is not a belief set.

It often takes as much faith to believe there isn't a God as it does to believe there is one

Existence and non belief are separate claims. An atheist may claim god does not exist, claiming god does not exist is not a prerequisite of atheism however.

It still takes faith to have a disbelief in God thus it could be considered a religion regardless of whether there's rules and guidelines or not.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/7/2010 11:31:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:30:07 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:28:10 PM, Puck wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:20:26 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:17:31 PM, Puck wrote:
Atheism is simply non belief in god(s). That is it. There is no atheist ideology, doctrine, principles etc. That an atheist may advocate something, that many may advocate the same thing, does not in itself make it atheistic.

Which is an argument many atheists will use to argue that atheism does count as a religion.

Atheism is a simple belief claim, a single one. It is not a religion. It is not a belief set.

It often takes as much faith to believe there isn't a God as it does to believe there is one

Existence and non belief are separate claims. An atheist may claim god does not exist, claiming god does not exist is not a prerequisite of atheism however.

It still takes faith to have a disbelief in God thus it could be considered a religion regardless of whether there's rules and guidelines or not.

You can't have faith in not believing in something. Just think about what you said.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
InsertNameHere
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6/7/2010 11:34:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:31:51 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You can't have faith in not believing in something. Just think about what you said.

Atheists do have belief though, believe that there's no God.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/7/2010 11:35:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:30:07 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
It still takes faith to have a disbelief in God thus it could be considered a religion regardless of whether there's rules and guidelines or not.

Wow. Ok. Faith is blind belief. Atheism is nonbelief (in God).
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
FREEDO
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6/7/2010 11:35:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:34:08 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:31:51 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You can't have faith in not believing in something. Just think about what you said.

Atheists do have belief though, believe that there's no God.

*facepalm*
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/7/2010 11:36:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:34:08 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:31:51 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You can't have faith in not believing in something. Just think about what you said.

Atheists do have belief though, believe that there's no God.

Do you believe that there are no fairies? Great, you belong to the religion and belief system of afairyism.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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6/7/2010 11:36:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:30:07 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
It still takes faith to have a disbelief in God

Faith in what? Claims of existence are not a prerequisite so what exactly am I taking on faith? That an atheist may claim agnosticism on the possibilities of a god existing is part of what an atheist may believe; the claim that I must have an aspect related to faith is a false claim.

thus it could be considered a religion regardless of whether there's rules and guidelines or not.

What exactly makes it a religion? That it has a belief claim? That exists for a vast multitude of things. Your definition seeks to make religion synonymous with belief when it is not. There is no belief set to constitute it as a religion.
InsertNameHere
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6/7/2010 11:37:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:36:04 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:34:08 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:31:51 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You can't have faith in not believing in something. Just think about what you said.

Atheists do have belief though, believe that there's no God.

Do you believe that there are no fairies? Great, you belong to the religion and belief system of afairyism.

I am an Afairyist. :P
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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6/7/2010 11:38:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:34:08 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:31:51 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You can't have faith in not believing in something. Just think about what you said.

Atheists do have belief though, believe that there's no God.

Incorrect. It is a position that one may take in addition to atheism. 'God' is an undefined term in itself, amorphous, the claim 'God doesn't exist' requires a specific set of qualifiers for a definition of God.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/7/2010 11:39:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Despite my contention that Atheism in the strictest sense is merely a lack of belief in something.

I will say that there is a large group of Atheists who do all share a similar world view, and thus can be described as a set of beliefs. Though, such is nearly inevitable because Atheists in general, reject religion, and thus left with very few world views.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
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6/7/2010 11:42:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Also belief in itself isn't a 'faith thing' - it's a statement related to a position on certain types of knowledge. The statement 'I believe rain comes from clouds' is the adjoining agreement to the knowledge claim, 'rain comes from clouds'. A belief in and of itself is simply ones agreement (or disagreement) with certain claims of knowledge.
Puck
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6/7/2010 11:44:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:39:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Despite my contention that Atheism in the strictest sense is merely a lack of belief in something.

I will say that there is a large group of Atheists who do all share a similar world view, and thus can be described as a set of beliefs. Though, such is nearly inevitable because Atheists in general, reject religion, and thus left with very few world views.

Sure, but that doesn't make those claims 'atheisitc'. Evolution is largely advocated by atheists, evolution is not atheistic.
GeoLaureate8
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6/7/2010 11:47:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:44:10 PM, Puck wrote:
Sure, but that doesn't make those claims 'atheisitc'. Evolution is largely advocated by atheists, evolution is not atheistic.

Technically, evolution is atheistic because it describes the origin of man and excludes God. Evolution directly contradicts the theory that God created man.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
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6/7/2010 11:51:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:47:46 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:44:10 PM, Puck wrote:
Sure, but that doesn't make those claims 'atheisitc'. Evolution is largely advocated by atheists, evolution is not atheistic.

Technically, evolution is atheistic because it describes the origin of man and excludes God. Evolution directly contradicts the theory that God created man.

Your bias against theistic evolution is showing. Evolution posits nothing about the origin of life or any divine process that may or may not be involved. Simply not invoking deities does not make a thing atheistic. I tend not to detail god in the process of writing code, is programming language atheistic? No.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/7/2010 11:59:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:51:35 PM, Puck wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:47:46 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Technically, evolution is atheistic because it describes the origin of man and excludes God. Evolution directly contradicts the theory that God created man.

Your bias against theistic evolution is showing. Evolution posits nothing about the origin of life

Notice I was careful with my wording and used the word "man," not "life."

There is no bias, it's a fact. If one accepts evolution, no one, whether Christian or Deist, can claim that God created man. The most they could say is that God created the first multi-cellular organism, then eventually evolved through processes of natural selection into man.

Also, doesn't natural selection contradict any notion that God guided evolution? Either natural selection guides evolution or God guides. You can't have both.

So I dare say that evolution is blatantly incompatible with God created man.

or any divine process that may or may not be involved. Simply not invoking deities does not make a thing atheistic.

Both are explaining the origin of man. One explains origins using God, the other explains the origins without God. I think can be considered and atheistic theory of origins.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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6/8/2010 12:07:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/7/2010 11:59:54 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:51:35 PM, Puck wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:47:46 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Technically, evolution is atheistic because it describes the origin of man and excludes God. Evolution directly contradicts the theory that God created man.

Your bias against theistic evolution is showing. Evolution posits nothing about the origin of life

Notice I was careful with my wording and used the word "man," not "life."

There is no bias, it's a fact. If one accepts evolution, no one, whether Christian or Deist, can claim that God created man.

Sure you can, theistic evolutionist do. Regardless, you have now defined religion as 'origins of man' which is not a prerequisite for that either.

The most they could say is that God created the first multi-cellular organism, then eventually evolved through processes of natural selection into man.

You can start even before that.

Also, doesn't natural selection contradict any notion that God guided evolution? Either natural selection guides evolution or God guides. You can't have both.

Presupposes God has a specific blueprint in mind. Something, if we assume God exists, we do not have knowledge of.


So I dare say that evolution is blatantly incompatible with God created man.

Nope.

or any divine process that may or may not be involved. Simply not invoking deities does not make a thing atheistic.

Both are explaining the origin of man. One explains origins using God, the other explains the origins without God. I think can be considered and atheistic theory of origins.

God wrote the code or I wrote my code. My code is still not atheistic simply because it lacks an explicit God feature.
Atheism
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6/8/2010 12:09:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Its easier if we determine what man is originally born with. Belief, or non-belief. It is scientifically proven we are born without belief in god. Therefore, it takes effort to believe. Therefore, it takes no effort to lack belief. Atheism is simply lack of belief. Therefore, atheism takes no effort to not belief. Ergo, atheism is easier to do than believe.
In a syllogism:
P1:Lack of belief in spiritual beings is natural and effortless.
P2:Ergo, belief in spiritual things is unnatural and needs effort. (From P1.)
P3:Atheism lacks belief.
P4:Ergo, atheism is natural and effortless, whereas belief(heretofore referred as theism) requires effort and is unnatural. (From P1 and P2.)
I miss the old members.
Puck
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6/8/2010 12:11:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Erm, if you want to equate you position with mindlessness, then by all means do. Do not throw us all in there though. :)
Atheism
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6/8/2010 12:11:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/8/2010 12:09:09 AM, Atheism wrote:
Its easier if we determine what man is originally born with. Belief, or non-belief. It is scientifically proven we are born without belief in god. Therefore, it takes effort to believe. Therefore, it takes no effort to lack belief. Atheism is simply lack of belief. Therefore, atheism takes zero effort to lack belief. Ergo, atheism is easier to do than to believe.
In a syllogism:
P1:Lack of belief in spiritual beings is natural and effortless.
P2:Ergo, belief in spiritual things is unnatural and needs effort. (From P1.)
P3:Atheism lacks belief.
P4:Ergo, atheism is natural and effortless, whereas belief(heretofore referred as theism) requires effort and is unnatural. (From P1 and P2.)

Edit.
I miss the old members.
Atheism
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6/8/2010 12:12:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/8/2010 12:11:26 AM, Puck wrote:
Erm, if you want to equate you position with mindlessness, then by all means do. Do not throw us all in there though. :)
How am I equating my position with mindlessness?
I miss the old members.
Puck
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6/8/2010 12:15:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/8/2010 12:12:43 AM, Atheism wrote:
At 6/8/2010 12:11:26 AM, Puck wrote:
Erm, if you want to equate you position with mindlessness, then by all means do. Do not throw us all in there though. :)
How am I equating my position with mindlessness?

"Therefore, it takes no effort to lack belief. Atheism is simply lack of belief. Therefore, atheism takes zero effort to lack belief"
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/8/2010 12:17:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/8/2010 12:07:01 AM, Puck wrote:
At 6/7/2010 11:59:54 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Notice I was careful with my wording and used the word "man," not "life."

There is no bias, it's a fact. If one accepts evolution, no one, whether Christian or Deist, can claim that God created man.

Sure you can, theistic evolutionist do. Regardless, you have now defined religion as 'origins of man' which is not a prerequisite for that either.

I don't recall defining religion, or even using the term. My point is concerning theism, evolution, and the origins of man, not the definition of religion.

The most they could say is that God created the first multi-cellular organism, then eventually evolved through processes of natural selection into man.

You can start even before that.

You are evading the argument. If evolution is true, that man came from lower species, can it be said that God directly created man?

Also, doesn't natural selection contradict any notion that God guided evolution? Either natural selection guides evolution or God guides. You can't have both.

Presupposes God has a specific blueprint in mind. Something, if we assume God exists, we do not have knowledge of.

Notice it's called, natural selection, not divine selection. Natural selection cannot be claimed to be guided by the divine, otherwise it's no longer natural selection. You would have to simply dismiss natural selection.

So I dare say that evolution is blatantly incompatible with God created man.

Nope.

Yes.

Both are explaining the origin of man. One explains origins using God, the other explains the origins without God. I think can be considered and atheistic theory of origins.

God wrote the code or I wrote my code. My code is still not atheistic simply because it lacks an explicit God feature.

Ok, I see what you meant by your comment earlier.

Let me explain it this way. The theist describes the origin of man with God. The atheist describes the origins of man without God. I agree that evolution is not atheism, but it is atheistic in that it lacks a God in explaining something that is usually explained by God.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/8/2010 12:20:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
@Puck and Atheism

I think that it is effortless and mindlessness to lack belief in God, but once a person is indoctrinated with the belief in God, it requires more effort and more mindfulness to reject the belief in God.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Atheism
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6/8/2010 12:22:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/8/2010 12:20:37 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
@Puck and Atheism

I think that it is effortless and mindlessness to lack belief in God, but once a person is indoctrinated with the belief in God, it requires more effort and more mindfulness to reject the belief in God.
Agreed. Naturally, it is effortless, but once you are indoctrinated it requires effort to not believe. But the mindlessness thing has me a bit worried. I assume you mean natural by mindless?
I miss the old members.