Total Posts:86|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Say NO to Abolition

EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Abolishing the presidency is an absurd idea.

It makes no sense to me how people are so eager to destroy the only legitimate voice they have. Believing we can all communicate with Juggle is a pipe dream. A fantasy. Rather than electing a representative to relay our hopes and concerns and collaborate with Juggle, or even strengthen the presidency, everyone seems content to abandon the future to the hands of unelected and non-removable officials like Airmax. Airmax is great, but he's not everything. I strongly disagree with him single-handedly determining who does and doesn't have power on the site, and I firmly believe the presidency remains the only check on moderator power. The presidency is a position that needs to be strengthened, not abolished. Airmax has made it clear time and time again that he will not pursue ideas he disagrees with. The president does. It's the president's job to represent rather than design and collaborate rather than dictate. A moderator does not need to do any of these things. A moderator has no direct obligation to the community. A president does.

The drama surrounding Mikal has deeply saddened me. I had high hopes for Mikal. I did not see this as an election about elitism or outreach. I saw this as an election about what the presidency versus what the presidency should be. When the latter won, I was elated. When the latter stepped down because he couldn't handle it, because he hated the divisions, because of the needless drama constantly kindled by a handful of members, I was betrayed. But I will not allow that to crush the prospects of DDO being a community.

And to those who mock all of this - who say it's just a stupid website and not to take it seriously - you're wrong. This is a website, yes. It's not real life. But it is a community. It is more genuine than many real life communities. This community united prevented Mikal from being homeless. This community united to try and fund a meeting between bsh1 and YYW. This community has always stood up for one another, like New Yorkers in a Hollywood movie. It does matter. Do not call this a lie.

Tl;dr - the presidency is necessary and good. Make it stronger.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:41:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Abolishing the presidency is an absurd idea.

It makes no sense to me how people are so eager to destroy the only legitimate voice they have. Believing we can all communicate with Juggle is a pipe dream. A fantasy. Rather than electing a representative to relay our hopes and concerns and collaborate with Juggle, or even strengthen the presidency, everyone seems content to abandon the future to the hands of unelected and non-removable officials like Airmax. Airmax is great, but he's not everything. I strongly disagree with him single-handedly determining who does and doesn't have power on the site, and I firmly believe the presidency remains the only check on moderator power. The presidency is a position that needs to be strengthened, not abolished. Airmax has made it clear time and time again that he will not pursue ideas he disagrees with. The president does. It's the president's job to represent rather than design and collaborate rather than dictate. A moderator does not need to do any of these things. A moderator has no direct obligation to the community. A president does.

The drama surrounding Mikal has deeply saddened me. I had high hopes for Mikal. I did not see this as an election about elitism or outreach. I saw this as an election about what the presidency is versus what the presidency should be. When the latter won, I was elated. When the latter stepped down because he couldn't handle it, because he hated the divisions, because of the needless drama constantly kindled by a handful of members, I was betrayed. But I will not allow that to crush the prospects of DDO being a community.

And to those who mock all of this - who say it's just a stupid website and not to take it seriously - you're wrong. This is a website, yes. It's not real life. But it is a community. It is more genuine than many real life communities. This community united prevented Mikal from being homeless. This community united to try and fund a meeting between bsh1 and YYW. This community has always stood up for one another, like New Yorkers in a Hollywood movie. It does matter. Do not call this a lie.

Tl;dr - the presidency is necessary and good. Make it stronger.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:42:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

The presidency has the potential to be something positive. However, at present, it's little more than a charades game that only serves to distract us from serious discussion. Until and unless this changes, I'm in favor of abolishing it.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:43:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:42:58 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

The presidency has the potential to be something positive. However, at present, it's little more than a charades game that only serves to distract us from serious discussion. Until and unless this changes, I'm in favor of abolishing it.

*says Presidency has the potential to do something really good*
*in favor of abolishing it to prevent it from doing good*

#logic
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:44:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:42:58 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

The presidency has the potential to be something positive. However, at present, it's little more than a charades game that only serves to distract us from serious discussion. Until and unless this changes, I'm in favor of abolishing it.

So, we change it.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:44:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:43:57 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:42:58 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

The presidency has the potential to be something positive. However, at present, it's little more than a charades game that only serves to distract us from serious discussion. Until and unless this changes, I'm in favor of abolishing it.

*says Presidency has the potential to do something really good*
*in favor of abolishing it to prevent it from doing good*

#logic
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:45:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
/in

I 100% disagree with the efforts to end the Presidency.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:45:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:43:57 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:42:58 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

The presidency has the potential to be something positive. However, at present, it's little more than a charades game that only serves to distract us from serious discussion. Until and unless this changes, I'm in favor of abolishing it.

*says Presidency has the potential to do something really good*
*in favor of abolishing it to prevent it from doing good*

#logic

Where's the contradiction? I'm saying the presidency could be positive, but isn't.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:46:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:44:04 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:42:58 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

The presidency has the potential to be something positive. However, at present, it's little more than a charades game that only serves to distract us from serious discussion. Until and unless this changes, I'm in favor of abolishing it.

So, we change it.

So in the meantime, we should abolish it. What's the point of keeping it around if it only causes problems?
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:46:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:45:41 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:43:57 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:42:58 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

The presidency has the potential to be something positive. However, at present, it's little more than a charades game that only serves to distract us from serious discussion. Until and unless this changes, I'm in favor of abolishing it.

*says Presidency has the potential to do something really good*
*in favor of abolishing it to prevent it from doing good*

#logic

Where's the contradiction? I'm saying the presidency could be positive, but isn't.

So we might as well kill it now before anyone has the chance to make it positive, amirite?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
thett3
Posts: 14,363
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:47:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I like the DDO monarchy, personally. Long live king Airmax.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:48:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:46:39 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:45:41 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:43:57 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:42:58 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

The presidency has the potential to be something positive. However, at present, it's little more than a charades game that only serves to distract us from serious discussion. Until and unless this changes, I'm in favor of abolishing it.

*says Presidency has the potential to do something really good*
*in favor of abolishing it to prevent it from doing good*

#logic

Where's the contradiction? I'm saying the presidency could be positive, but isn't.

So we might as well kill it now before anyone has the chance to make it positive, amirite?

Until and unless this changes, I'm in favor of abolishing it.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:48:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:46:36 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:44:04 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:42:58 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

The presidency has the potential to be something positive. However, at present, it's little more than a charades game that only serves to distract us from serious discussion. Until and unless this changes, I'm in favor of abolishing it.

So, we change it.

So in the meantime, we should abolish it. What's the point of keeping it around if it only causes problems?

Why should we abolish it only to reinstate it? Why use a two-step plan that silences the people rather than simply fixing it?
Plus, the presidency only causes problems when some people can't accept the results.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:49:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:48:30 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:46:36 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:44:04 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:42:58 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

The presidency has the potential to be something positive. However, at present, it's little more than a charades game that only serves to distract us from serious discussion. Until and unless this changes, I'm in favor of abolishing it.

So, we change it.

So in the meantime, we should abolish it. What's the point of keeping it around if it only causes problems?

Why should we abolish it only to reinstate it? Why use a two-step plan that silences the people rather than simply fixing it?
Plus, the presidency only causes problems when some people can't accept the results.

Because I have doubts it can be fixed without help from Juggle. Until that happens, we should just abolish it.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:51:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:49:48 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:48:30 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:46:36 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:44:04 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:42:58 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

The presidency has the potential to be something positive. However, at present, it's little more than a charades game that only serves to distract us from serious discussion. Until and unless this changes, I'm in favor of abolishing it.

So, we change it.

So in the meantime, we should abolish it. What's the point of keeping it around if it only causes problems?

Why should we abolish it only to reinstate it? Why use a two-step plan that silences the people rather than simply fixing it?
Plus, the presidency only causes problems when some people can't accept the results.

Because I have doubts it can be fixed without help from Juggle. Until that happens, we should just abolish it.

So we get help from Juggle by removing the only legitimate voice we have with Juggle.......okay......
thett3
Posts: 14,363
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:51:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:48:56 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:47:47 PM, thett3 wrote:
I like the DDO monarchy, personally. Long live king Airmax.

Thett. I mean it.

As do I. The president is a figurehead that DDO's effective king, Airmax, allows to exist.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:51:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:51:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:48:56 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:47:47 PM, thett3 wrote:
I like the DDO monarchy, personally. Long live king Airmax.

Thett. I mean it.

As do I. The president is a figurehead that DDO's effective king, Airmax, allows to exist.

Troll responses like this are not something productive to this conversation.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:52:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:51:04 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:49:48 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:48:30 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:46:36 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:44:04 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:42:58 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:38:59 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

The presidency has the potential to be something positive. However, at present, it's little more than a charades game that only serves to distract us from serious discussion. Until and unless this changes, I'm in favor of abolishing it.

So, we change it.

So in the meantime, we should abolish it. What's the point of keeping it around if it only causes problems?

Why should we abolish it only to reinstate it? Why use a two-step plan that silences the people rather than simply fixing it?
Plus, the presidency only causes problems when some people can't accept the results.

Because I have doubts it can be fixed without help from Juggle. Until that happens, we should just abolish it.

So we get help from Juggle by removing the only legitimate voice we have with Juggle.......okay......

What makes you think Juggle listens to the president anymore than they listen to airmax?
thett3
Posts: 14,363
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:52:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:51:31 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:51:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:48:56 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:47:47 PM, thett3 wrote:
I like the DDO monarchy, personally. Long live king Airmax.

Thett. I mean it.

As do I. The president is a figurehead that DDO's effective king, Airmax, allows to exist.

Troll responses like this are not something productive to this conversation.

I'm not trolling...it's just a good metaphor for the situation.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:53:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Originally the president was meant to serve as a representative for the community. If Juggle is unwilling to make changes to the site, what's the point?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:57:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What if it were replaced with something better?

For example, everyone votes for a list of people, and the five people who get the most votes serve act as liaisons between moderation and the community. Less competition, less drama. Better results due to a diversity of voices. Just voting for one president seems to cause problems, and a huge amount of stress for the president. As far as I can recall, not many of them seek re-election.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 3:57:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:52:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:51:31 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:51:06 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:48:56 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:47:47 PM, thett3 wrote:
I like the DDO monarchy, personally. Long live king Airmax.

Thett. I mean it.

As do I. The president is a figurehead that DDO's effective king, Airmax, allows to exist.

Troll responses like this are not something productive to this conversation.

I'm not trolling...it's just a good metaphor for the situation.

The whole post is about changing that.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 4:00:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:57:16 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
What if it were replaced with something better?

For example, everyone votes for a list of people, and the five people who get the most votes serve act as liaisons between moderation and the community. Less competition, less drama. Better results due to a diversity of voices. Just voting for one president seems to cause problems, and a huge amount of stress for the president. As far as I can recall, not many of them seek re-election.

If by "moderation" you mean "juggle", then I think this is definitely a better system than the current one. However, until juggle is willing to make changes, what's the point really?
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 4:00:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:57:16 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
What if it were replaced with something better?

For example, everyone votes for a list of people, and the five people who get the most votes serve act as liaisons between moderation and the community. Less competition, less drama. Better results due to a diversity of voices. Just voting for one president seems to cause problems, and a huge amount of stress for the president. As far as I can recall, not many of them seek re-election.

See, I knew you were a good thinker.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 4:01:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 4:00:25 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/5/2015 3:57:16 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
What if it were replaced with something better?

For example, everyone votes for a list of people, and the five people who get the most votes serve act as liaisons between moderation and the community. Less competition, less drama. Better results due to a diversity of voices. Just voting for one president seems to cause problems, and a huge amount of stress for the president. As far as I can recall, not many of them seek re-election.

If by "moderation" you mean "juggle", then I think this is definitely a better system than the current one. However, until juggle is willing to make changes, what's the point really?

By 'moderation', I mean Airmax and his assistant moderators.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Subutai
Posts: 3,235
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 4:02:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The idealistic view of the DDO presidency has been obviously muddling beyond recognition. The real world of DDO has shown the idea of a presidency to be, at best, useless. It confers no additional powers to the person, it causes too much unnecessary drama on the site, and it offers no greater potential than a popular user has with a popular opinion.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/5/2015 4:03:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 3:45:38 PM, bsh1 wrote:
/in

I 100% disagree with the efforts to end the Presidency.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King