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Replacement of the Presidency

Skepsikyma
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1/5/2015 6:56:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is a spot for any interested parties to discuss a replacement of the DDO presidency with a system which will minimize the flaws of our current system while still maintaining community representation.

My proposition is a DDO Diet, a body of representatives elected by popular vote. The number of representatives can be deliberated, but I think that five should be a minimum. I propose that each voter lists a number of names equal to the amount of seats being elected, and that those who receive the highest number of votes receive said seats. This body could deliberate and elect a leader from amongst itself on a temporary basis in order to give the concerns of the community a unified voice (i.e., a representative to carry concerns to Juggle).

The benefits for this would be as follows:

1. Less drama. With many people running and winning, it will be much less likely for drama to arise for several reasons:

1a. Two huge cliques will not form, as they did in the last election, and proceed to antagonise each other after the election.

1b. Each member will be casting votes for multiple parties, making it less likely for fierce loyalties to develop, and for the best person for the job to be elected.

1c. The body as a whole will maintain more wide support than a potentially divisive president, as more people will feel like they have a voice on the body, instead of half feeling potentially disenfranchised.

2. Less of chance of abdication. It is pretty rare for a person to seek re-election to the office of President. It is a stressful, time consuming, often wearying position. By dividing the work and sharing the burden of responsibility it will become a more manageable affair.

3. Better representative capabilities.

3a. It is more likely that a diverse group of individuals will have some voice on the Diet.

3b. Division of duties and specialization will result in more attention being paid to possible concerns.

3c. A diversity of opinions on the Diet will result in better plans for site improvement, as each member will have differing degrees of communication with varying members of the community.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
mishapqueen
Posts: 3,995
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1/5/2015 6:59:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 6:56:27 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
This is a spot for any interested parties to discuss a replacement of the DDO presidency with a system which will minimize the flaws of our current system while still maintaining community representation.

My proposition is a DDO Diet, a body of representatives elected by popular vote. The number of representatives can be deliberated, but I think that five should be a minimum. I propose that each voter lists a number of names equal to the amount of seats being elected, and that those who receive the highest number of votes receive said seats. This body could deliberate and elect a leader from amongst itself on a temporary basis in order to give the concerns of the community a unified voice (i.e., a representative to carry concerns to Juggle).

The benefits for this would be as follows:

1. Less drama. With many people running and winning, it will be much less likely for drama to arise for several reasons:

1a. Two huge cliques will not form, as they did in the last election, and proceed to antagonise each other after the election.

1b. Each member will be casting votes for multiple parties, making it less likely for fierce loyalties to develop, and for the best person for the job to be elected.

1c. The body as a whole will maintain more wide support than a potentially divisive president, as more people will feel like they have a voice on the body, instead of half feeling potentially disenfranchised.

2. Less of chance of abdication. It is pretty rare for a person to seek re-election to the office of President. It is a stressful, time consuming, often wearying position. By dividing the work and sharing the burden of responsibility it will become a more manageable affair.

3. Better representative capabilities.

3a. It is more likely that a diverse group of individuals will have some voice on the Diet.

3b. Division of duties and specialization will result in more attention being paid to possible concerns.

3c. A diversity of opinions on the Diet will result in better plans for site improvement, as each member will have differing degrees of communication with varying members of the community.

If I ignore how complicated this is, it sounds like a pretty good idea.
You cannot choose whether or not you will live by rules, but you can choose which rules you will live by. --Me

"I was wrong. Squirrels are objectively superior to bunnies in every conceivable dimension."
--Joey

"Silence is golden, duct tape is silver" --PetersSmith

Nunc aut Numquam
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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1/5/2015 6:59:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I mean, this seems unnecessarily complicated and bureaucratic. People are criticizing just having one representative; I am not sure having multiple such representatives will fix the issue. Nor does this idea seem likely to resolve the main issue raised by opponents of the office, i.e. drama, because the system is still necessarily political.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,373
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1/5/2015 7:01:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 6:59:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Brian! :D
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
ESocialBookworm
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1/5/2015 7:01:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 6:59:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I learned a new word today.

What word?
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,288
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1/5/2015 7:01:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 6:59:39 PM, mishapqueen wrote:
At 1/5/2015 6:56:27 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

If I ignore how complicated this is, it sounds like a pretty good idea.

It's not very complicated at all. You just elect more people. That's about the extent of it. The rest of the system will be worked out among the five. Perhaps the only big stumbling block is the execution of the voting.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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1/5/2015 7:02:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 7:01:48 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 1/5/2015 6:59:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I learned a new word today.

What word?

Well, not another word, another meaning of"Diet".
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,288
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1/5/2015 7:02:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 6:59:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I mean, this seems unnecessarily complicated and bureaucratic. People are criticizing just having one representative; I am not sure having multiple such representatives will fix the issue. Nor does this idea seem likely to resolve the main issue raised by opponents of the office, i.e. drama, because the system is still necessarily political.

I outlined how it will; are there flaws in my arguments?
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
bsh1
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1/5/2015 7:03:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 7:01:34 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 1/5/2015 6:59:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Brian! :D

Yeah, I came back because I saw that Mikal was stepping down...but I really shouldn't be online. I plan to log off after I make one or two more posts.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,288
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1/5/2015 7:04:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 7:02:51 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
This doesn't solve the problem of a weak presidency. The presidency needs to be more powerful.

Be specific on that point. I think that the fact that five different independently elected representatives of the community needing to vest their power in a representative gives that representative considerable heft which one who simply won 52% of a vote lacks.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,373
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1/5/2015 7:06:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 7:02:51 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
This doesn't solve the problem of a weak presidency. The presidency needs to be more powerful.

I know how to solve it- Endark for President 2015!
JK.

But seriousy- there are strong members that need to step up to the plate and take the position- bluesteel, thett, cermank, etc
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
mishapqueen
Posts: 3,995
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1/5/2015 7:07:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 7:01:50 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 1/5/2015 6:59:39 PM, mishapqueen wrote:
At 1/5/2015 6:56:27 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

If I ignore how complicated this is, it sounds like a pretty good idea.

It's not very complicated at all. You just elect more people. That's about the extent of it. The rest of the system will be worked out among the five. Perhaps the only big stumbling block is the execution of the voting.

Well, I get easily confused, and while the general idea sounds good, it might be too complicated for those of us who aren't very brilliant. XD
You cannot choose whether or not you will live by rules, but you can choose which rules you will live by. --Me

"I was wrong. Squirrels are objectively superior to bunnies in every conceivable dimension."
--Joey

"Silence is golden, duct tape is silver" --PetersSmith

Nunc aut Numquam
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,373
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1/5/2015 7:08:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
*seriously
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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1/5/2015 7:11:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why does DDO even need a President? If you want to organize DDO related events, just do it. Post in the DDO forum. If people are interested they will respond. You don't need some middleman to do it for you. If you have a complaint or an idea Click on "contact us" and submit it. Again this is where changes will be considered, why go through a middleman? Eliminate the drama completely and don't rely on someone who might not forward your complaint or idea because they have some vendetta against you because you don't believe in global warming or don't support gay marriage or some other whatever reason. Skip the BS and go straight to the people that matter.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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1/5/2015 7:16:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As I see the presidency, it is largely just play. DDO simply does not have any issues that really need a president's attention. The state is not variable. However, the stuff that EndarkenedRationalist said did open my eyes to something: a necessity for play. What harm of it if it brings people together, if it airs aggrievances, if it makes people happy, even if in a rather simple sort of way? Actually, I have made the connection between it and sex in my mind, lol. But then why not spread it out, as Skep is proposing? Why not give each board some representation, let them know each other as the DDO board does? And it does in fact seem only reasonable that it should reduce drama this way, that it should allow people to better air their aggrievances etc. Indeed, perhaps it will pull things together like a presidency never could.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,288
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1/5/2015 7:17:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 7:11:25 PM, sadolite wrote:
Why does DDO even need a President? If you want to organize DDO related events, just do it. Post in the DDO forum. If people are interested they will respond. You don't need some middleman to do it for you. If you have a complaint or an idea Click on "contact us" and submit it. Again this is where changes will be considered, why go through a middleman? Eliminate the drama completely and don't rely on someone who might not forward your complaint or idea because they have some vendetta against you because you don't believe in global warming or don't support gay marriage or some other whatever reason. Skip the BS and go straight to the people that matter.

Well, the purpose of this thread is to replace th presidency, so it presupposes that some sort of representation will exist. If you want to discuss the merits, or lack thereof, of representation itself there are already two threads dedicated to that. From what I can tell, moderation supports it (I imagine it makes the system as a whole more manageable), and the representation serves as a liaison to Juggle should contact with them be required. Getting rid of the system entirely may be unfeasible, as Juggle can't spend company resources listening to every Joe Schmoe who has an opinion about how the site should be run.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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1/5/2015 7:19:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 6:56:27 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

The benefits for this would be as follows:

1. Less drama. With many people running and winning, it will be much less likely for drama to arise for several reasons:

1a. Two huge cliques will not form, as they did in the last election, and proceed to antagonise each other after the election.

I doubt that the size of the cliques matters insofar as cliques form at all. Consider, are 10 cliques with 100 people any less dramatic than 2 cliques with 100 people? Frankly, I think that more factions would just multiply the issue because there are more people for each faction to be mad at.

1b. Each member will be casting votes for multiple parties, making it less likely for fierce loyalties to develop, and for the best person for the job to be elected

I disagree. Let's say that the diet is composed of 5 people, with 10 candidates running. I might be friends with all the candidates, so not matter how I vote, someone's feelings will be hurt. Certainly, if I am particularly fond of one or two candidates, I would definitely display fierce loyalty in helping them get elected.

Keep in mind too that usually, the people who show the fiercest devotion are people included on campaign teams. Certainly, even candidates for a diet will still have people on campaign teams, and so drama will persist.

1c. The body as a whole will maintain more wide support than a potentially divisive president, as more people will feel like they have a voice on the body, instead of half feeling potentially disenfranchised.

I am not sure that's true. Just look at Congress... Just because I approve of my congressional representatives doesn't mean I approve of the body as a whole. Sure, I may support components of the diet, i.e. the people I voted for, but that doesn't equate to me liking the diet as a whole. Moreover, if even half of the people I vote for don't get elected, I may still feel as if my voice is being stifled.

2. Less of chance of abdication. It is pretty rare for a person to seek re-election to the office of President. It is a stressful, time consuming, often wearying position. By dividing the work and sharing the burden of responsibility it will become a more manageable affair.

It also really adds level of bureaucratic nonsense that I simply don't think are necessary. Furthermore, too many cooks in the kitchen can make it harder to get things done. Finally, one of the main arguments against the presidency is that there isn't even enough for 1 person to do; I don't see how adding people is going to solve the issue.

And, keep in mind, most Presidents have sought reelection. The job itself isn't stressful or overly "wearying" or time consuming.

------

Ultimately, the point is that wherever there is politics, there is drama.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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1/5/2015 7:21:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 7:16:56 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I'm now going to request sadolite be my DDO friend and watch him decline the offer.

Done
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
AnDoctuir
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1/5/2015 7:23:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
bsh1 is such a bad poster. Just give it a rest. It'd be cool if we could all get together and have a big wacky, multi-faceted election.
DarthVitiosus
Posts: 624
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1/5/2015 7:27:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 7:17:49 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 1/5/2015 7:11:25 PM, sadolite wrote:
Why does DDO even need a President? If you want to organize DDO related events, just do it. Post in the DDO forum. If people are interested they will respond. You don't need some middleman to do it for you. If you have a complaint or an idea Click on "contact us" and submit it. Again this is where changes will be considered, why go through a middleman? Eliminate the drama completely and don't rely on someone who might not forward your complaint or idea because they have some vendetta against you because you don't believe in global warming or don't support gay marriage or some other whatever reason. Skip the BS and go straight to the people that matter.

Well, the purpose of this thread is to replace th presidency, so it presupposes that some sort of representation will exist. If you want to discuss the merits, or lack thereof, of representation itself there are already two threads dedicated to that. From what I can tell, moderation supports it (I imagine it makes the system as a whole more manageable), and the representation serves as a liaison to Juggle should contact with them be required. Getting rid of the system entirely may be unfeasible, as Juggle can't spend company resources listening to every Joe Schmoe who has an opinion about how the site should be run.

Juggle is an absentee landlord, they could care less what happens here. Ask the previous site president before Mikal, or a site moderator like Airmax, or even ask the president who just resigned. Ask them how well is communication is with Juggle.
WILL NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL:
#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.
sadolite
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1/5/2015 7:28:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 7:22:04 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
lol

You can be my friend, but not in any official manner. You might do something to make me look bad and I don't want any paper trails leading back to me.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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1/5/2015 7:29:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 7:28:20 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 1/5/2015 7:22:04 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
lol

You can be my friend, but not in any official manner. You might do something to make me look bad and I don't want any paper trails leading back to me.

I'll take it. Isn't this a paper trail, though? Are we now friends?
bsh1
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1/5/2015 7:29:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 7:23:56 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
bsh1 is such a bad poster.

Thanks, AnDoc! I'm flattered you think so :)

Just give it a rest. It'd be cool if we could all get together and have a big wacky, multi-faceted election.

Cool, perhaps. Disjointed, ineffective, and looney...definitely.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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1/5/2015 7:31:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 7:29:27 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 1/5/2015 7:28:20 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 1/5/2015 7:22:04 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
lol

You can be my friend, but not in any official manner. You might do something to make me look bad and I don't want any paper trails leading back to me.

I'll take it. Isn't this a paper trail, though? Are we now friends?

It's "unofficial" I am only telling you what you want to hear.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
YYW
Posts: 36,417
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1/5/2015 7:31:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/5/2015 7:29:28 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/5/2015 7:23:56 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
bsh1 is such a bad poster.

Thanks, AnDoc! I'm flattered you think so :)

Yeah pretty much the way to know that you're on the right track is when badger does not approve lol

Just give it a rest. It'd be cool if we could all get together and have a big wacky, multi-faceted election.

Cool, perhaps. Disjointed, ineffective, and looney...definitely.
Tsar of DDO