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Why We Should Abolish the Presidency

debatability
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1/6/2015 8:31:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
After thinking about it, I honestly think getting rid of the presidency is the best thing for DDO. The only job a president does that normal members cannot do is communicate with juggle. Thus, someone should be appointed as a juggle representative and their only job should be to communicate with juggle and gather ideas from the people pertaining to site updates. This could be done in the form of an election or airmax could appoint a representative (which I think would be preferable).

You may be thinking: how is this any different from the presidency?
I'll go ahead and explain why I think having a juggle rep is better than having a president.

1. The "powers" given to a president are things that can be done by virtually any member. Here is a chart of blade and mikal's campaigns next to eachother https://docs.google.com... Basically every tenet of their campaigns (except site updates) is something that normal members can do. The word "president" is misleading because the president has no official power beyond communicating with juggle.

2. It's better to have regular members facilitate tournaments / forum programs / member outreach / voting groups.
Giving all these jobs to the "president" does two things:
(a) It takes the "president's" attention away from communicating with juggle: though juggle isn't currently devoting many resources to the site, the president needs to be prepared for a time when they do.
(b) Members can do a better job. I would argue that a president is, to a certian extent, facilitating tournaments / forum programs / ect due to obligation, rather than a legitimate drive to better ddo. Whether or not a tournament or voting group succeeds is determined by how motivated the person carrying out the event is. No voting group made by a president has ever lasted a long time. However, the Supreme Council of Determination has lasted around 30 weeks or so, solely due to Addison's effort and hard work. I'd be interested in figuring out some exact statistic; but from observation of tournaments during my time on DDO, I've been able to conclude that tournaments run by members generally work out better, when compared to "official tournaments" which often don't even finish.
(c) Having a president discourages other members from carrying out programs to better the site because even though the president's powers aren't official; it is generally accepted that they are in charge of tournaments / forum programs / ect. Thus, people that really want to start a program to better the site may be discouraged. It would be preferable to provide a more structured way for members to give their ideas on bettering the site and carry them out. For example, members that want to have tournaments should sign up in advanced (kind of like the Mafia Mod List) in order to avoid tournament fever.

3. Less Controversy
This last election has literally been a joke. When a canidate is so desperate to win that they spend hours messaging every barely-elibable member, the legitimacy of the election dissolves.
Having a juggle representative appointed by airmax gets rid of the controversy surrounding campaign methods, and ensures that the person appointed is someone fit for the job. Since the juggle representative's *only* job would be to communicate with juggle, members won't worry so much about how that representative is able to better ddo by facilitating tournaments / forum programs / ect. Rather, the only thing members need to worry about is how well that person can communicate with juggle.

With a "president" members are inhibited from expressing their ideas if they do not particularly like the president (to a certian extent) or if the president does not particularly like them.
If the president has a history of flamewars with "person a" and "person a" has a great idea for a forum program, the forum program likely is not going to happen. Whereas, if person a has a history of flame wars with a "juggle representative" that will not affect the quality of site updates that a representative pushes for because site updates really aren't controversial (meaning that basically everyone can agree that certian features would be a net benifit to the site). So, person a can still start their forum program and without being forced to work with the president, thus eliminating drama.

Really, the qualities that we look for in a president are not necessarily the same qualities we would look for in someone who's only job would be communicating with juggle. Look at mikal for example. How much of his campaign actually explained *why* he would be a good choice when choosing someone to communicate with juggle? He showed that he had the ability to start programs and carry them out, but that should mean nothing when choosing a president because "carrying out programs" is nonunique to presidency. Even if a juggle representative was chosen via election, making it clear that the elected person's only job would be to communicate with juggle ensures that the election doesn't turn into a popularity contest.

My reasoning behind wanting airmax to choose such a representative is simple: Firstly, the representative is an intermediary between the mod and juggle. If airmax can't agree or get along with the representative due to past transgressions (of the representative), or the representative's general demeanor, then it is less likely that site updates will happen.
And secondly, less controversy. I won't touch on this too much because it's pretty obvious. Airmax clearly has good judgement when looking at the sub mods he has appointed, and airmax will undoubtedly make a member-friendly choice when choosing a representative.

Thoughts?
Ajabi
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1/6/2015 8:36:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:31:13 AM, debatability wrote:
After thinking about it, I honestly think getting rid of the presidency is the best thing for DDO. The only job a president does that normal members cannot do is communicate with juggle. Thus, someone should be appointed as a juggle representative and their only job should be to communicate with juggle and gather ideas from the people pertaining to site updates. This could be done in the form of an election or airmax could appoint a representative (which I think would be preferable).

You may be thinking: how is this any different from the presidency?
I'll go ahead and explain why I think having a juggle rep is better than having a president.

1. The "powers" given to a president are things that can be done by virtually any member. Here is a chart of blade and mikal's campaigns next to eachother https://docs.google.com... Basically every tenet of their campaigns (except site updates) is something that normal members can do. The word "president" is misleading because the president has no official power beyond communicating with juggle.

2. It's better to have regular members facilitate tournaments / forum programs / member outreach / voting groups.
Giving all these jobs to the "president" does two things:
(a) It takes the "president's" attention away from communicating with juggle: though juggle isn't currently devoting many resources to the site, the president needs to be prepared for a time when they do.
(b) Members can do a better job. I would argue that a president is, to a certian extent, facilitating tournaments / forum programs / ect due to obligation, rather than a legitimate drive to better ddo. Whether or not a tournament or voting group succeeds is determined by how motivated the person carrying out the event is. No voting group made by a president has ever lasted a long time. However, the Supreme Council of Determination has lasted around 30 weeks or so, solely due to Addison's effort and hard work. I'd be interested in figuring out some exact statistic; but from observation of tournaments during my time on DDO, I've been able to conclude that tournaments run by members generally work out better, when compared to "official tournaments" which often don't even finish.
(c) Having a president discourages other members from carrying out programs to better the site because even though the president's powers aren't official; it is generally accepted that they are in charge of tournaments / forum programs / ect. Thus, people that really want to start a program to better the site may be discouraged. It would be preferable to provide a more structured way for members to give their ideas on bettering the site and carry them out. For example, members that want to have tournaments should sign up in advanced (kind of like the Mafia Mod List) in order to avoid tournament fever.

3. Less Controversy
This last election has literally been a joke. When a canidate is so desperate to win that they spend hours messaging every barely-elibable member, the legitimacy of the election dissolves.
Having a juggle representative appointed by airmax gets rid of the controversy surrounding campaign methods, and ensures that the person appointed is someone fit for the job. Since the juggle representative's *only* job would be to communicate with juggle, members won't worry so much about how that representative is able to better ddo by facilitating tournaments / forum programs / ect. Rather, the only thing members need to worry about is how well that person can communicate with juggle.

With a "president" members are inhibited from expressing their ideas if they do not particularly like the president (to a certian extent) or if the president does not particularly like them.
If the president has a history of flamewars with "person a" and "person a" has a great idea for a forum program, the forum program likely is not going to happen. Whereas, if person a has a history of flame wars with a "juggle representative" that will not affect the quality of site updates that a representative pushes for because site updates really aren't controversial (meaning that basically everyone can agree that certian features would be a net benifit to the site). So, person a can still start their forum program and without being forced to work with the president, thus eliminating drama.

Really, the qualities that we look for in a president are not necessarily the same qualities we would look for in someone who's only job would be communicating with juggle. Look at mikal for example. How much of his campaign actually explained *why* he would be a good choice when choosing someone to communicate with juggle? He showed that he had the ability to start programs and carry them out, but that should mean nothing when choosing a president because "carrying out programs" is nonunique to presidency. Even if a juggle representative was chosen via election, making it clear that the elected person's only job would be to communicate with juggle ensures that the election doesn't turn into a popularity contest.

My reasoning behind wanting airmax to choose such a representative is simple: Firstly, the representative is an intermediary between the mod and juggle. If airmax can't agree or get along with the representative due to past transgressions (of the representative), or the representative's general demeanor, then it is less likely that site updates will happen.
And secondly, less controversy. I won't touch on this too much because it's pretty obvious. Airmax clearly has good judgement when looking at the sub mods he has appointed, and airmax will undoubtedly make a member-friendly choice when choosing a representative.

Thoughts?

This sexy girl gets it. VTK Lizz
Ajabi
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1/6/2015 8:44:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:31:13 AM, debatability wrote:
After thinking about it, I honestly think getting rid of the presidency is the best thing for DDO. The only job a president does that normal members cannot do is communicate with juggle. Thus, someone should be appointed as a juggle representative and their only job should be to communicate with juggle and gather ideas from the people pertaining to site updates. This could be done in the form of an election or airmax could appoint a representative (which I think would be preferable).

Honestly I do not think why airmax himself could do this? He knows this site as good as anyone, he has an awesome team with bladerunner, and whiteflame, and he has the best relationship with Juggle. Juggle trusts airmax, and I trust airmax. I do'nt see why we could not tell him out concerns and he could talk to Juggle.

As for bringing in competitions, and other stuff I agree anyone could do this. Is everyone here so stuck up they need a title to organize competitions, vote on debates? Can people just not do that. For every debate you do, promise yourself you'll vote on one debate. How about that folks?
Wylted
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1/6/2015 9:07:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It seems like Airmax's policy in choosing sub mods is this.

Do they have a good head on their shoulders?

Are they good at communicating?

Are they good at avoiding drama?

With the highest priority being the ability to avoid drama. Which means he'll always choose the less active members. Which means the less active members will be the ones petitioning juggle and likely unaware of what the more active user wants and concerns are.
Wylted
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1/6/2015 9:16:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:13:26 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Stop silencing the people!

I think this whole Mikal being president thing is a false flag op by the DDO elite as a prelude to silencing the people by inserting a dictator as opposed to a president, like debataility is trying to do.

It's classic problem-reaction-solution
debatability
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1/6/2015 11:01:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:44:23 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:31:13 AM, debatability wrote:
After thinking about it, I honestly think getting rid of the presidency is the best thing for DDO. The only job a president does that normal members cannot do is communicate with juggle. Thus, someone should be appointed as a juggle representative and their only job should be to communicate with juggle and gather ideas from the people pertaining to site updates. This could be done in the form of an election or airmax could appoint a representative (which I think would be preferable).

Honestly I do not think why airmax himself could do this? He knows this site as good as anyone, he has an awesome team with bladerunner, and whiteflame, and he has the best relationship with Juggle. Juggle trusts airmax, and I trust airmax. I do'nt see why we could not tell him out concerns and he could talk to Juggle.


I do, to a certian extent, agree with you. However, airmax cannot be expected to keep up with moderator duties and focus on connecting with juggle.
More importantly, quite a few people object to the idea of airmax having total control; thus, having a juggle rep would be a happy medium between having a useless president and giving airmax total control. I'd like to hear what airmax thinks though.


As for bringing in competitions, and other stuff I agree anyone could do this. Is everyone here so stuck up they need a title to organize competitions, vote on debates? Can people just not do that. For every debate you do, promise yourself you'll vote on one debate. How about that folks?
debatability
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1/6/2015 11:04:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:07:23 AM, Wylted wrote:
It seems like Airmax's policy in choosing sub mods is this.

Do they have a good head on their shoulders?

Are they good at communicating?

Are they good at avoiding drama?

With the highest priority being the ability to avoid drama. Which means he'll always choose the less active members. Which means the less active members will be the ones petitioning juggle and likely unaware of what the more active user wants and concerns are.

I think site updates are an area that most people are familiar with because most users have the same concerns.
We can all agree that the front page sucks a$$, the search bar sucks a$$, and it would be nice to write longer rfd's. Whiteflame (or some other member that is not immersed in the social aspect of ddo) can easily figure that out and write a proposal to juggle.
debatability
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1/6/2015 11:04:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 9:13:26 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Stop silencing the people!

how would this silence the people?
Ragnar
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1/6/2015 11:11:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:31:13 AM, debatability wrote:
The only job a president does that normal members cannot do is communicate with juggle. Thus, someone should be appointed as a juggle representative and their only job should be to communicate with juggle and gather ideas from the people pertaining to site updates. This could be done in the form of an election...
So they still do everything they currently do? Why re-brand it?
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
bossyburrito
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1/6/2015 11:13:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Preach it, sister.

A few years ago I thought that the presidency was pointless for pretty much these reasons - Max offered some counterpoints and I reconsidered. Now, after all this, I think I can say that I was right all along.
#UnbanTheMadman

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debatability
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1/6/2015 11:18:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 11:11:35 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 1/6/2015 8:31:13 AM, debatability wrote:
The only job a president does that normal members cannot do is communicate with juggle. Thus, someone should be appointed as a juggle representative and their only job should be to communicate with juggle and gather ideas from the people pertaining to site updates. This could be done in the form of an election...
So they still do everything they currently do? Why re-brand it?

I explain that in my reasons below...
In short,
The term president is pretty misleading for starters. But beyond that, the juggle representative would be different because they would literally do nothing but communicate with juggle.
SebUK
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1/6/2015 11:47:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:31:13 AM, debatability wrote:
After thinking about it, I honestly think getting rid of the presidency is the best thing for DDO. The only job a president does that normal members cannot do is communicate with juggle. Thus, someone should be appointed as a juggle representative and their only job should be to communicate with juggle and gather ideas from the people pertaining to site updates. This could be done in the form of an election or airmax could appoint a representative (which I think would be preferable).

You may be thinking: how is this any different from the presidency?
I'll go ahead and explain why I think having a juggle rep is better than having a president.

1. The "powers" given to a president are things that can be done by virtually any member. Here is a chart of blade and mikal's campaigns next to eachother https://docs.google.com... Basically every tenet of their campaigns (except site updates) is something that normal members can do. The word "president" is misleading because the president has no official power beyond communicating with juggle.

2. It's better to have regular members facilitate tournaments / forum programs / member outreach / voting groups.
Giving all these jobs to the "president" does two things:
(a) It takes the "president's" attention away from communicating with juggle: though juggle isn't currently devoting many resources to the site, the president needs to be prepared for a time when they do.
(b) Members can do a better job. I would argue that a president is, to a certian extent, facilitating tournaments / forum programs / ect due to obligation, rather than a legitimate drive to better ddo. Whether or not a tournament or voting group succeeds is determined by how motivated the person carrying out the event is. No voting group made by a president has ever lasted a long time. However, the Supreme Council of Determination has lasted around 30 weeks or so, solely due to Addison's effort and hard work. I'd be interested in figuring out some exact statistic; but from observation of tournaments during my time on DDO, I've been able to conclude that tournaments run by members generally work out better, when compared to "official tournaments" which often don't even finish.
(c) Having a president discourages other members from carrying out programs to better the site because even though the president's powers aren't official; it is generally accepted that they are in charge of tournaments / forum programs / ect. Thus, people that really want to start a program to better the site may be discouraged. It would be preferable to provide a more structured way for members to give their ideas on bettering the site and carry them out. For example, members that want to have tournaments should sign up in advanced (kind of like the Mafia Mod List) in order to avoid tournament fever.

3. Less Controversy
This last election has literally been a joke. When a canidate is so desperate to win that they spend hours messaging every barely-elibable member, the legitimacy of the election dissolves.
Having a juggle representative appointed by airmax gets rid of the controversy surrounding campaign methods, and ensures that the person appointed is someone fit for the job. Since the juggle representative's *only* job would be to communicate with juggle, members won't worry so much about how that representative is able to better ddo by facilitating tournaments / forum programs / ect. Rather, the only thing members need to worry about is how well that person can communicate with juggle.

With a "president" members are inhibited from expressing their ideas if they do not particularly like the president (to a certian extent) or if the president does not particularly like them.
If the president has a history of flamewars with "person a" and "person a" has a great idea for a forum program, the forum program likely is not going to happen. Whereas, if person a has a history of flame wars with a "juggle representative" that will not affect the quality of site updates that a representative pushes for because site updates really aren't controversial (meaning that basically everyone can agree that certian features would be a net benifit to the site). So, person a can still start their forum program and without being forced to work with the president, thus eliminating drama.

Really, the qualities that we look for in a president are not necessarily the same qualities we would look for in someone who's only job would be communicating with juggle. Look at mikal for example. How much of his campaign actually explained *why* he would be a good choice when choosing someone to communicate with juggle? He showed that he had the ability to start programs and carry them out, but that should mean nothing when choosing a president because "carrying out programs" is nonunique to presidency. Even if a juggle representative was chosen via election, making it clear that the elected person's only job would be to communicate with juggle ensures that the election doesn't turn into a popularity contest.

My reasoning behind wanting airmax to choose such a representative is simple: Firstly, the representative is an intermediary between the mod and juggle. If airmax can't agree or get along with the representative due to past transgressions (of the representative), or the representative's general demeanor, then it is less likely that site updates will happen.
And secondly, less controversy. I won't touch on this too much because it's pretty obvious. Airmax clearly has good judgement when looking at the sub mods he has appointed, and airmax will undoubtedly make a member-friendly choice when choosing a representative.

Thoughts?

Democracy ....
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
EndarkenedRationalist
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1/6/2015 12:03:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 11:04:55 AM, debatability wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:13:26 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Stop silencing the people!

how would this silence the people?

By stripping them of their ability to select their leaders.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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1/6/2015 12:08:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
With weakness of this generation of ddoians it may be the best thing to dissolve it or just have a puppet so future generations at least have the opportunity to utilize the function.

Judging by the character of the elected representative of this community it may be best that juggle does not see the weakness of this generation. I'd hate to see them lose even more faith in the community and either stop updating or make it even worse with no input from the community.

If you do not learn from history what is going to happen? ????

When juggle first bought the site two negatives happened.

1. They created a thread asking for suggestions. And if two members agreed juggle said "ok, sounds good to us" but they were terrible ideas and we had to scramble to stop them and come up with something else.

2. A small group of ancaps contacted juggle and convinced them to unban askbob. Juggle later had to perma ban hom when he posted pictures of an underage troll, family members, address, Facebook, cell number ect. Well the kids momma threatened to sue (when she found out ;) don't know that happened lol) juggle.

Both times a minority in the community made not only juggle unsure if they could trust anyone but also could have weakened the site.

It took a solid president to change that and get it going in the right direction. It looks like the last few generations have taken that time spent and carelessly threw it to the pigs.

Damn shame too.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
thett3
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1/6/2015 12:11:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
On top of this, let's be real. Who is left that's presidential material?

Blade and whiteflame are out because they're mods. Bluesteel doesn't want to do it. Ore maye?
DDO Vice President

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#BetOnThett

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"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
RevNge
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1/6/2015 12:13:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:11:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
On top of this, let's be real. Who is left that's presidential material?

Blade and whiteflame are out because they're mods. Bluesteel doesn't want to do it. Ore maye?

You seriously forgot about Jimtimmy?
EndarkenedRationalist
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1/6/2015 12:13:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:11:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
On top of this, let's be real. Who is left that's presidential material?

Blade and whiteflame are out because they're mods. Bluesteel doesn't want to do it. Ore maye?

I'm not convinced Whiteflame was ever presidential material in the first place (too aloof), but there are plenty of other worthy members.
Cermank
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1/6/2015 12:13:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:11:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
On top of this, let's be real. Who is left that's presidential material?

Blade and whiteflame are out because they're mods. Bluesteel doesn't want to do it. Ore maye?

does being mods really impede that much? airmax did both a while back, didn't he?
thett3
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1/6/2015 12:14:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:13:19 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:11:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
On top of this, let's be real. Who is left that's presidential material?

Blade and whiteflame are out because they're mods. Bluesteel doesn't want to do it. Ore maye?

does being mods really impede that much? airmax did both a while back, didn't he?

He did and the confusion regarding the ties between the two positions lingered until this election basically. Max said the positions are "necessarily separated"
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Cermank
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1/6/2015 12:18:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:14:25 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:13:19 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 1/6/2015 12:11:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
On top of this, let's be real. Who is left that's presidential material?

Blade and whiteflame are out because they're mods. Bluesteel doesn't want to do it. Ore maye?

does being mods really impede that much? airmax did both a while back, didn't he?

He did and the confusion regarding the ties between the two positions lingered until this election basically. Max said the positions are "necessarily separated"

well, i don't see a pressing need for an election right now anyway. Perhaps we can wait a few months and then get an election, if there's a pressing need (which i doubt there would be)

If we were to have one right now, I think blade would be the best choice. bluesteel can be a good one, but i'm not sure if he wants to.
debatability
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1/6/2015 12:40:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 12:03:57 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/6/2015 11:04:55 AM, debatability wrote:
At 1/6/2015 9:13:26 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Stop silencing the people!

how would this silence the people?

By stripping them of their ability to select their leaders.

That is why such an official could be elected; I'm not against that idea.
I'm simply against a president.
dylancatlow
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1/6/2015 3:32:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 3:27:31 PM, Zaradi wrote:
You're advocacting for the status quo under a different name.

K

I can think of at least two ways in which her proposal differs from the current system. 1. The representative would not be chosen democratically and 2. Their role as representative would be more narrowly defined. Their duties would not include organizing tournaments and things of that kind.
Vox_Veritas
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1/6/2015 3:34:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 8:31:13 AM, debatability wrote:
After thinking about it, I honestly think getting rid of the presidency is the best thing for DDO. The only job a president does that normal members cannot do is communicate with juggle. Thus, someone should be appointed as a juggle representative and their only job should be to communicate with juggle and gather ideas from the people pertaining to site updates. This could be done in the form of an election or airmax could appoint a representative (which I think would be preferable).

You may be thinking: how is this any different from the presidency?
I'll go ahead and explain why I think having a juggle rep is better than having a president.

1. The "powers" given to a president are things that can be done by virtually any member. Here is a chart of blade and mikal's campaigns next to eachother https://docs.google.com... Basically every tenet of their campaigns (except site updates) is something that normal members can do. The word "president" is misleading because the president has no official power beyond communicating with juggle.

2. It's better to have regular members facilitate tournaments / forum programs / member outreach / voting groups.
Giving all these jobs to the "president" does two things:
(a) It takes the "president's" attention away from communicating with juggle: though juggle isn't currently devoting many resources to the site, the president needs to be prepared for a time when they do.
(b) Members can do a better job. I would argue that a president is, to a certian extent, facilitating tournaments / forum programs / ect due to obligation, rather than a legitimate drive to better ddo. Whether or not a tournament or voting group succeeds is determined by how motivated the person carrying out the event is. No voting group made by a president has ever lasted a long time. However, the Supreme Council of Determination has lasted around 30 weeks or so, solely due to Addison's effort and hard work. I'd be interested in figuring out some exact statistic; but from observation of tournaments during my time on DDO, I've been able to conclude that tournaments run by members generally work out better, when compared to "official tournaments" which often don't even finish.
(c) Having a president discourages other members from carrying out programs to better the site because even though the president's powers aren't official; it is generally accepted that they are in charge of tournaments / forum programs / ect. Thus, people that really want to start a program to better the site may be discouraged. It would be preferable to provide a more structured way for members to give their ideas on bettering the site and carry them out. For example, members that want to have tournaments should sign up in advanced (kind of like the Mafia Mod List) in order to avoid tournament fever.

3. Less Controversy
This last election has literally been a joke. When a canidate is so desperate to win that they spend hours messaging every barely-elibable member, the legitimacy of the election dissolves.
Having a juggle representative appointed by airmax gets rid of the controversy surrounding campaign methods, and ensures that the person appointed is someone fit for the job. Since the juggle representative's *only* job would be to communicate with juggle, members won't worry so much about how that representative is able to better ddo by facilitating tournaments / forum programs / ect. Rather, the only thing members need to worry about is how well that person can communicate with juggle.

With a "president" members are inhibited from expressing their ideas if they do not particularly like the president (to a certian extent) or if the president does not particularly like them.
If the president has a history of flamewars with "person a" and "person a" has a great idea for a forum program, the forum program likely is not going to happen. Whereas, if person a has a history of flame wars with a "juggle representative" that will not affect the quality of site updates that a representative pushes for because site updates really aren't controversial (meaning that basically everyone can agree that certian features would be a net benifit to the site). So, person a can still start their forum program and without being forced to work with the president, thus eliminating drama.

Really, the qualities that we look for in a president are not necessarily the same qualities we would look for in someone who's only job would be communicating with juggle. Look at mikal for example. How much of his campaign actually explained *why* he would be a good choice when choosing someone to communicate with juggle? He showed that he had the ability to start programs and carry them out, but that should mean nothing when choosing a president because "carrying out programs" is nonunique to presidency. Even if a juggle representative was chosen via election, making it clear that the elected person's only job would be to communicate with juggle ensures that the election doesn't turn into a popularity contest.

My reasoning behind wanting airmax to choose such a representative is simple: Firstly, the representative is an intermediary between the mod and juggle. If airmax can't agree or get along with the representative due to past transgressions (of the representative), or the representative's general demeanor, then it is less likely that site updates will happen.
And secondly, less controversy. I won't touch on this too much because it's pretty obvious. Airmax clearly has good judgement when looking at the sub mods he has appointed, and airmax will undoubtedly make a member-friendly choice when choosing a representative.

Thoughts?

Then sign the petition, please.
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Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
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1/6/2015 3:36:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 3:32:13 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 1/6/2015 3:27:31 PM, Zaradi wrote:
You're advocacting for the status quo under a different name.

K

I can think of at least two ways in which her proposal differs from the current system. 1. The representative would not be chosen democratically

How does this differ? This election was the sole anomaly in which the past president basically handed the office to someone else (innomen basically handed it to Airmax, Airmax basically handed it to tuf and bladerunner). The voting was so landslided that the fact that the voting took place didn't even matter.

and 2. Their role as representative would be more narrowly defined. Their duties would not include organizing tournaments and things of that kind.

It wasn't ever in their job description. They do it because they love the site. Tagging "Official" onto it doesn't change that.
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jharry
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1/6/2015 3:42:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Will the rep listen to the community? What entails communication with juggle?

The presidency became important when juggle said they would listen to the president. It was literally a popularity contest before that.

What if the mod that appoints the rep doesn't hold the same views as the community? Will there be a time when the gap between the two gets so larger the rep won't even matter?

In the past the presidents appointed members to head certain aspects of their platform. Tournaments, Mafia ect. What happened to this? When did it start falling all on one persons shoulders?

That's actually pretty dangerous letting/having one person making all the calls....all the descions. If this is the case than the current community is just lazy and doesn't deserve to be accurately and fairly represented. They deserve to be ruled.
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