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The DDO Abolition Party

Subutai
Posts: 3,223
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1/7/2015 11:16:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The presidential abolitionists are a disparate group of people with often separate goals and intentions for the site. However, we all back the idea that the presidency is useless and should be phased out. It appears that pure anarchism is not going to be an option. However, we have before us the option of essentially a lame duck president who will do absolutely nothing. This is as close we are going to get to anarchy.

Who is the candidate? Beginner - http://www.debate.org.... 61 completed debates and 2508 forum posts. He may not be known very well, but this isn't necessary, considering there's no skills required.

Why should we abolish the presidency? http://www.debate.org...; http://www.debate.org.... This post lists three good reasons why there's no need for a DDO president. There are other thread expresses similar feelings.

Does this movement have support? http://www.debate.org.... Exactly 20 signatures, plus people who haven't signed the petition, but agree with the sentiment.

Are there other serious candidates? Ore_Ele is the only one I'd consider that has a good chance of winning. He's similar to Airmax. I'd back his presidency over anyone else's. He's the only one who probably won't cause a lot of drama. However, he's not needed.

Stand behind Beginner if you want to see this useless office eliminated. Stand behind Beginner if you do not want to see DDO be torn apart further by more presidental drama. Stand behind Beginner if you want a better DDO.

Beginner for DDO President 2015.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/7/2015 11:23:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:16:56 PM, Subutai wrote:
Are there other serious candidates? Ore_Ele is the only one I'd consider that has a good chance of winning. He's similar to Airmax. I'd back his presidency over anyone else's. He's the only one who probably won't cause a lot of drama. However, he's not needed.

Stand behind Beginner if you want to see this useless office eliminated. Stand behind Beginner if you do not want to see DDO be torn apart further by more presidental drama. Stand behind Beginner if you want a better DDO.

Wow...Ore running really hurts the biggest argument here...
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/7/2015 11:30:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Might I propose a different candidate for the abolitionist party? This user has been on DDO for over a year and his conduct is testament to his motives and leadership ability.

In many ways, he is the opposite of Mikal, and I hope I'm not revealing too much when I say that he represents exactly what I'm looking for romantically on DDO.

http://www.debate.org...
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/7/2015 11:34:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:33:32 PM, Beginner wrote:
Thanks Subutai for the blaring endorsement! :)

You see how this candidate keeps popping up and saying stuff? He will as president too no doubt. compare and contrast.
Beginner
Posts: 4,292
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1/7/2015 11:37:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:34:52 PM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:33:32 PM, Beginner wrote:
Thanks Subutai for the blaring endorsement! :)

You see how this candidate keeps popping up and saying stuff?
Shouldn't a candidate be allowed some self-advocacy pre-election? There's no time for activity like election season. T^T
He will as president too no doubt. compare and contrast.
So cynical. D': What's the problem?
Senpai has noticed you.
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/7/2015 11:40:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:37:44 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:34:52 PM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:33:32 PM, Beginner wrote:
Thanks Subutai for the blaring endorsement! :)

You see how this candidate keeps popping up and saying stuff?
Shouldn't a candidate be allowed some self-advocacy pre-election? There's no time for activity like election season. T^T
He will as president too no doubt. compare and contrast.
So cynical. D': What's the problem?

It's the ABOLITIONIST party. NOTHING better meets the party's needs. Thst's all
debatability
Posts: 1,160
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1/7/2015 11:48:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:16:56 PM, Subutai wrote:
The presidential abolitionists are a disparate group of people with often separate goals and intentions for the site. However, we all back the idea that the presidency is useless and should be phased out. It appears that pure anarchism is not going to be an option. However, we have before us the option of essentially a lame duck president who will do absolutely nothing. This is as close we are going to get to anarchy.

Who is the candidate? Beginner - http://www.debate.org.... 61 completed debates and 2508 forum posts. He may not be known very well, but this isn't necessary, considering there's no skills required.

Why should we abolish the presidency? http://www.debate.org...; http://www.debate.org.... This post lists three good reasons why there's no need for a DDO president. There are other thread expresses similar feelings.

Does this movement have support? http://www.debate.org.... Exactly 20 signatures, plus people who haven't signed the petition, but agree with the sentiment.

Are there other serious candidates? Ore_Ele is the only one I'd consider that has a good chance of winning. He's similar to Airmax. I'd back his presidency over anyone else's. He's the only one who probably won't cause a lot of drama. However, he's not needed.

Stand behind Beginner if you want to see this useless office eliminated. Stand behind Beginner if you do not want to see DDO be torn apart further by more presidental drama. Stand behind Beginner if you want a better DDO.

Beginner for DDO President 2015.

I wish I had worded my thread a bit differently because my opinion really goes more along the lines of wanting to *reform* the presidency, rather than abolishing it. Measures haven't been put into place that would allow for someone who's only job is to communicate with juggle, so I would argue that it's important to look to the canidate that will do the best job of communicating with juggle if juggle were to wish to establish relations with the site. That canidate is definitely ore_ele.

It's important that ddo have a way of communicating with juggle because that's what makes site updates happen. That's why you can't just *abolish* the presidency without making sure there is somone in charge of communicating with juggle. So, under the status quo, a president that actually does stuff is needed.

Ore_ele's campaign doesn't contradict any of the points I made in my post about the flaws that most ddo presidencies have because his campaign doesn't inhibit other members from being able to suggest ideas or start their own programs on their own. i.e. voting efforts / forum projects / tournaments. As his vice president, my goal is to make sure that members can persue these interests in a structured way; for example, coming up with a more organized system for tournaments.

I just thought i'd clear that up because the presidency does have a purpose, its just that it's purpose is overshaddowed by what most presidents currently do / campaign and by the fact that juggle isn't persuing a relationship with ddo. When juggle is ready to do a site update, ddo needs to be ready with a canidate that is able to work with juggle.

I didn't want my opinion to be misrepresented, especially since I am going to be running as vp with ore_ele.
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/7/2015 11:49:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:45:06 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Check out that online, updated, joined.

Spooky.

Yeah...spooky. (?)

He's too young. I'd feel embarrassed talking to him about my online menstrual problems.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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1/7/2015 11:50:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:49:23 PM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:45:06 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Check out that online, updated, joined.

Spooky.

Yeah...spooky. (?)

I suffer awfully from religion.

He's too young. I'd feel embarrassed talking to him about my online menstrual problems.
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/7/2015 11:52:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:48:32 PM, debatability wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:16:56 PM, Subutai wrote:

Ore_ele set up the elo without being president. It's not essential to communicating with juggle at all.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/7/2015 11:53:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:43:48 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Meet our new president: http://www.debate.org...

I am most glad to see that no troll can ever use that username now.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/7/2015 11:54:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:50:52 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:49:23 PM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:45:06 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Check out that online, updated, joined.

Spooky.

Yeah...spooky. (?)

I suffer awfully from religion.

Ohh I get it. finally. :)

He's too young. I'd feel embarrassed talking to him about my online menstrual problems.
debatability
Posts: 1,160
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1/7/2015 11:56:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:52:26 PM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:48:32 PM, debatability wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:16:56 PM, Subutai wrote:

Ore_ele set up the elo without being president. It's not essential to communicating with juggle at all.

The point is, *most* site updates are going to be accomplished via communcation with someone on ddo and juggle. And obviously juggle had to do some sort of site update in order to institute the elo system. I'd need to ask airmax about the history of presidential communications with juggle to give a more consise answer though.

It's important to have someone that represents ddo to juggle and who better than ore_ele since he came up with the elo system, was a moderator, and is probably quite familiar with juggle?
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,846
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1/7/2015 11:58:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I should be running for the presidency. No one knows who I am and thus no drama will form.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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1/7/2015 11:58:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:58:00 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
I should be running for the presidency. No one knows who I am and thus no drama will form.

I know you intimately. I read all your fiction.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,846
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1/8/2015 12:01:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:58:34 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:58:00 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
I should be running for the presidency. No one knows who I am and thus no drama will form.

I know you intimately. I read all your fiction.

Umm...okay...
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/8/2015 12:05:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:56:28 PM, debatability wrote:

The elo system was miscoded years ago. None of the presidents since then have been able to fix it. They can't even get the current president page updated. I don't see how the presidency facilitates site updates or communication with Juggle. You say it does, but there's no evidence of it.

Anyway, if someone ever gets up a working relationship with someone at juggle, why mess with it by changing the president every six months? We could just have an open procedure of discussing potential updates.
Beginner
Posts: 4,292
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1/8/2015 12:07:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:23:34 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:16:56 PM, Subutai wrote:
He's the only one who probably won't cause a lot of drama. However, he's not needed.

Stand behind Beginner if you want to see this useless office eliminated. Stand behind Beginner if you do not want to see DDO be torn apart further by more presidental drama. Stand behind Beginner if you want a better DDO.

Wow...Ore running really hurts the biggest argument here...

I agree. Ore_Ele is one of the site's biggest contributors, and I'd probably vote him if all else fails.
However, I think the recent problem of drama does not result from the presidency. As Danielle has pointed out, DDO's election began as a friendly competition between two members. The standards of presidential qualifications in order to win election has been growing ever since. I'm not saying that none of this growth is good, but the recent fiasco of Mikal's resignation and the circumstances surrounding his resignation are indicative of an overarching problem: the DDO community has come to expect too much of the presidency. Pit against the razor-expectations of the increasingly harsh qualifications, the position of DDO president has become one that is consistently discouraging the continued participation of some of the site's best members.

Now I know that part of what Ore_Ele is running on is his explicit declaration against drama and its recurrence, but even Ore_Ele is acquiescing to the constraints of an worsening system. He is a great member and would probably make a great president, but his election will not fundamentally address DDO politics' system problems. Even now, as we speak, the system is utterly refusing to accommodate the abolition movement. The election of a DDO president will happen no matter how many of us sign the abolition petition.
Ore_Ele's campaign, for which I have nought but praise, will disappear into the recesses of DDO history. However, the election of a "lame-duck" president will not.
Just as members can recall the first formation of a structural administration under innomen, members will be able to easily and aptly recall DDO's first null presidency. My candidacy directly addresses DDO's increasing social demands and problems generated by a DDO community that is slowly losing its ability to adapt and change.
Senpai has noticed you.
Beginner
Posts: 4,292
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1/8/2015 12:09:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:40:07 PM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:37:44 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:34:52 PM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:33:32 PM, Beginner wrote:
Thanks Subutai for the blaring endorsement! :)

You see how this candidate keeps popping up and saying stuff?
Shouldn't a candidate be allowed some self-advocacy pre-election? There's no time for activity like election season. T^T
He will as president too no doubt. compare and contrast.
So cynical. D': What's the problem?

It's the ABOLITIONIST party. NOTHING better meets the party's needs. Thst's all

We have the same functional goals. Sorry to break it to you, but abolition just ain't happening. The lame-duck presidency is as close as we get. Let's take what we can shall we? :)
Senpai has noticed you.
Beginner
Posts: 4,292
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1/8/2015 12:13:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 11:56:28 PM, debatability wrote:
It's important to have someone that represents ddo to juggle and who better than ore_ele since he came up with the elo system, was a moderator, and is probably quite familiar with juggle?

As others have put it, communication with juggle does not require any official position. I think if members like you and Ore_Ele can continue to show consistent dedication, it'd send a very positive message to the DDO community of what even common DDO members like you and I can accomplish.
Senpai has noticed you.
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/8/2015 12:13:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 12:09:28 AM, Beginner wrote:
We have the same functional goals. Sorry to break it to you, but abolition just ain't happening. The lame-duck presidency is as close as we get. Let's take what we can shall we? :)

?? Did you miss the part where I proposed a better candidate for our aims?
Beginner
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1/8/2015 12:19:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 12:13:50 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/8/2015 12:09:28 AM, Beginner wrote:
We have the same functional goals. Sorry to break it to you, but abolition just ain't happening. The lame-duck presidency is as close as we get. Let's take what we can shall we? :)

?? Did you miss the part where I proposed a better candidate for our aims?

Your candidate doesn't have any posts, debates, polls or opinions. He cannot run. Plus, such a platform does not compromise enough for it to be practically elected. There just aren't enough abolitionists. For us to succeed, we have to convince a lot of people, especially those who would probably side with Ore_Ele otherwise.
Lame duck presidency [QUACK!] is as close as it gets for all practical purposes if we ever actually want to see this happen.
Besides, there's almost no difference. Is it the hat? If it's the hat, I swear I won't wear it outside. (D8)>
Senpai has noticed you.
debatability
Posts: 1,160
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1/8/2015 12:21:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 12:05:31 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:56:28 PM, debatability wrote:

The elo system was miscoded years ago. None of the presidents since then have been able to fix it. They can't even get the current president page updated. I don't see how the presidency facilitates site updates or communication with Juggle. You say it does, but there's no evidence of it.


Whether or not a president gets something done is usually up to juggle, not the president. TUF was able to get more gender options on the website, and institute a new voting system.


Anyway, if someone ever gets up a working relationship with someone at juggle, why mess with it by changing the president every six months? We could just have an open procedure of discussing potential updates.

The president is able to run as many terms as they would like; it's important to have regular elections though, for the wellbeing of the people on ddo, and the president (if the president does not desire to run again)
debatability
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1/8/2015 12:28:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 12:13:07 AM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/7/2015 11:56:28 PM, debatability wrote:
It's important to have someone that represents ddo to juggle and who better than ore_ele since he came up with the elo system, was a moderator, and is probably quite familiar with juggle?

As others have put it, communication with juggle does not require any official position. I think if members like you and Ore_Ele can continue to show consistent dedication, it'd send a very positive message to the DDO community of what even common DDO members like you and I can accomplish.

Ore_ele was a mod before he instituted elo; that credibility likely led to his plan being put into place.

However, I completely agree with you. Normal members have instituted some pretty great stuff. The example that really comes to mind is blade of truth's voting group which has lasted longer than 30 weeks. This is why I believe an administration's goal should be to help members facilitate tournaments / forum programs / voting groups and instead of take it upon themselves to instute the things mentioned above alone.