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Why Abolition

Beginner
Posts: 4,292
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1/8/2015 1:50:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I should probably address a common misconception: the presidency of myself and Wylted is not intended to destroy the achievements built up by past presidencies or to permanently eradicate it. As stated many times before, the ideology of the null-campaign has generally been commendatory with regard to DDO's amazing political development and history. Having a temporarily annulled presidency cannot possibly delete this history from the mind of DDO's community at large. The achievement of Innomen, as the first president to provide formal structure and utility to the presidency, is known even to me, and I only joined 2 years ago!

Mikal recently resigned from the presidency in the midst of a very vocal dissenting community. I pointed out to Ore_Ele that the community's severely disproportionate standards and its clash with the presidency is exactly what caused the drama and Mikal's resignation from both the presidency and this site. True, Mikal did give a lot of promises and set a high standard on his own administration, but it is ultimately the chain of presidencies and the community's hyperinflated expectations of succeeding presidents and candidates which led to those standards. These standards have created an unrelenting community in which anything other than a strict adherence deserves the harshest of persecution. This mentality is wrong. Why do we feel a need to harass people for a position which began as a little fun contest between two users? Why do we feel a need to harass people for not fulfilling unnecessary expectations while holding a spot that really has no real functional advantages?

Even if the standards of qualifications have finally been mollified with the resignation of Mikal, successive presidencies will slowly bury the circumstances surrounding Mikal's resignation into the recesses of DDO history. DDO's future generation won't know or remember why the resignation occurred. At best, they will receive mixed responses when they ask (if at all). Just as I cannot name the general characteristics or even the names of the candidates of most past presidents, most voters participating in future DDO politics will not remember the clauses or terms of Ore_Ele, Lannan, or any other functional presidency running. However, just as I can name innomen as the first functional president, future DDO generations will be able to name Beginner-Wylted, the first null-presidency, as a moderation to a structure built too high and too large: a true pillar of reference to defer the recurrence of any commission toward unnecessary construction.

Such a powerful political message will never have such a chance at the stage ever again. If the null-presidency is ever to occur, it has to be now.
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SebUK
Posts: 850
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1/8/2015 1:55:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 1:52:24 PM, Beginner wrote:
Questions? Concerns? Applications for a staff position?

You are not running together are you?
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/8/2015 1:58:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You're missing the whole point of abolition. There shouldn't be positions on an administration or co presidents or anything like that.

You haven't explained how you are better than NOTHING.
Beginner
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1/8/2015 1:58:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 1:55:20 PM, SebUK wrote:
At 1/8/2015 1:52:24 PM, Beginner wrote:
Questions? Concerns? Applications for a staff position?

You are not running together are you?

He and I will occupy the presidency as co-presidents.
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Beginner
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1/8/2015 2:00:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 1:58:02 PM, Garbanza wrote:
You're missing the whole point of abolition. There shouldn't be positions on an administration or co presidents or anything like that.

You haven't explained how you are better than NOTHING.

We are better than NOTHING because NOTHING cannot succeed.
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Beginner
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1/8/2015 2:03:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 1:58:02 PM, Garbanza wrote:
You're missing the whole point of abolition.
Many people want abolition for different reasons. I believe the reason Wylted and I are pushing our candidacy corresponds with that of a good portion of abolitionists.
You are, of course, entitled to have your own goals in proposing abolition. However, I don't see how Wylted-Beginner is bad per se, relative to your ultimate purpose, the movement or to the DDO presidency as a whole.
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Garbanza
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1/8/2015 2:32:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:00:26 PM, Beginner wrote:
You're missing the whole point of abolition. There shouldn't be positions on an administration or co presidents or anything like that.

You haven't explained how you are better than NOTHING.
We are better than NOTHING because NOTHING cannot succeed.

Of course it can if it gets enough votes.

You and wylted are constructing more and more pointless administration and you're both posting a lot. You're just another troll presidency. We've already had one. It was enough.
Beginner
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1/8/2015 2:37:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:32:53 PM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:00:26 PM, Beginner wrote:
You're missing the whole point of abolition. There shouldn't be positions on an administration or co presidents or anything like that.

You haven't explained how you are better than NOTHING.
We are better than NOTHING because NOTHING cannot succeed.

Of course it can if it gets enough votes.

You and wylted are constructing more and more pointless administration and
Exactly. That's the point! <3
you're both posting a lot.
What's wrong with other members being more active? Do you dislike other members being more active? Is that fair? Why?
You're just another troll presidency. We've already had one. It was enough.
Look through the null-presidency campaign text (again, if you've already read it). You can see that the ideology supporting the null-presidency is not a joke. Even if it's interspersed with a bit of mood-lightening context <(8D), it is absolutely serious.
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Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/8/2015 2:41:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:37:30 PM, Beginner wrote:
You and wylted are constructing more and more pointless administration and
Exactly. That's the point! <3
you're both posting a lot.
What's wrong with other members being more active? Do you dislike other members being more active? Is that fair? Why?
You're just another troll presidency. We've already had one. It was enough.
Look through the null-presidency campaign text (again, if you've already read it). You can see that the ideology supporting the null-presidency is not a joke. Even if it's interspersed with a bit of mood-lightening context <(8D), it is absolutely serious.

NOTHING is a far better null candidate than either of you. I can't understand why you're denying it. Any new member can see at a glance that he's not leading the site wheras they might be temporarily confused by either of you. Further, if you ever got in, you'd probably be tempted to do troll initiatives which would be annoying, as you already started with electing VPs etc.
Beginner
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1/8/2015 2:50:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:32:53 PM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:00:26 PM, Beginner wrote:
We are better than NOTHING because NOTHING cannot succeed.

Of course it can if it gets enough votes.
The fact is, the appeal of nothing is restricted solely to abolitionists. Even if we were to take the total number of the abolition votes indicated by the petition, we'd only have 20, maybe 30 people. Last election ran with almost 200 votes. Even if only half of those show up, we'd constitute a mere fraction of the actual voting base. (1/5 ~ 1/4)

A difference between NOTHING and Wylted-Beginner is that Wylted-Beginner is not uncompromising, and its purpose and goals have been explicitly outlined. We're looking beyond just the presidency. Our purpose intends much deeper ramifications, and I've outlined those ramifications clearly and repeatedly.
It's more than just the semantic implementation of abolition: there is a big underlying WHY? that the null-presidency clearly addresses to both abolition-proponents and the general DDO community at large.

Your opposing proposition in favor of NOTHING is truly the 'knee-jerk' reaction, as Ore_Ele put it. Your end purpose is abolition. Our end purpose is DDO.
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Beginner
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1/8/2015 2:58:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:41:43 PM, Garbanza wrote:
NOTHING is a far better null candidate than either of you. I can't understand why you're denying it.
I'm denying it because NOTHING is not better, even if elected. There's more to abolition than just abolition.
Any new member can see at a glance that he's not leading the site wheras they might be temporarily confused by either of you.
That will not happen, and 'leading' the site is exactly what Wylted-Beginner is not going to do. We've emphasized this repeatedly: the site doesn't need leadership. Our ideals are not conflicting. <3
Further, if you ever got in, you'd probably be tempted to do troll initiatives which would be annoying, as you already started with electing VPs etc.

Whether these things are troll or not is up to subjective interpretation. We have a goal to achieve and a lasting message to produce, so let's get to doing it! :)
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Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/8/2015 2:58:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:50:01 PM, Beginner wrote:
LOL. You can't be half abolition and half president for the community. Fact is, oreele is the best actual candidate (or maybe lannan), and NOTHING is the best null candidate.

I don't care if it doesn't win. I think that's corrupt thinking. If most people wsnt a president then let's have one. I just want there to be an option so that people who want no president can voice their opinion too.
Beginner
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1/8/2015 3:04:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:58:30 PM, Garbanza wrote:
So despite repeated assurance, it all boils down to your simply not believing that Wylted-Beginner will follow through with the ideology that its run on if elected.

If the idea is firmly stuck in your head, there is nothing I can do. Enjoy DDO. <3
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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/8/2015 3:08:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:58:30 PM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:50:01 PM, Beginner wrote:
LOL. You can't be half abolition and half president for the community. Fact is, oreele is the best actual candidate (or maybe lannan), and NOTHING is the best null candidate.

I don't care if it doesn't win. I think that's corrupt thinking. If most people wsnt a president then let's have one. I just want there to be an option so that people who want no president can voice their opinion too.

We will do nothing as president. The positions are just for show. I assure you that he'll be on board after I talk to him more.
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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1/8/2015 3:13:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 3:04:10 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:58:30 PM, Garbanza wrote:
So despite repeated assurance, it all boils down to your simply not believing that Wylted-Beginner will follow through with the ideology that its run on if elected.

If the idea is firmly stuck in your head, there is nothing I can do. Enjoy DDO. <3

No, I do believe you. You said that, unlike NOTHING, you are "not uncompromising". A compromising null president just means a bad president. There's no advantage in that at all.

My impression is that you just really, really want to be president. You're missing the point if abolition entirely, as I said at the beginning.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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1/8/2015 3:21:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:00:26 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 1:58:02 PM, Garbanza wrote:
You're missing the whole point of abolition. There shouldn't be positions on an administration or co presidents or anything like that.

You haven't explained how you are better than NOTHING.

We are better than NOTHING because NOTHING cannot succeed.

I don't think this is the argument you think it is. Nothing cannot succeed. Indeed. Nothing can only fail.
Beginner
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1/8/2015 3:23:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 3:13:21 PM, Garbanza wrote:
At 1/8/2015 3:04:10 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:58:30 PM, Garbanza wrote:
So despite repeated assurance, it all boils down to your simply not believing that Wylted-Beginner will follow through with the ideology that its run on if elected.

If the idea is firmly stuck in your head, there is nothing I can do. Enjoy DDO. <3

No, I do believe you. You said that, unlike NOTHING, you are "not uncompromising". A compromising null president just means a bad president. There's no advantage in that at all.
The compromise arises from my actually running and holding the position as a real member. If you believe us, then you'd know that after we are elected, we'd be functionally irrelevant in presidential terms.

My impression is that you just really, really want to be president.
I did say that I desired that hat. There's nothing inherently wrong with a little desire. <3
You're missing the point if abolition entirely, as I said at the beginning.
I believe the point of abolition is more than just achieving abolition, and that there can be many reasons users want abolition at this moment. Permanent abolition and temporary abolition are not the same, and I think it's presumptuous to assume that the entire point of abolition is to achieve permanent abolition.
There is no specific point to abolition, Garbanza. You are entitled to have your own agenda for abolition (whatever it is), but just know that people have differing intent and ideals in their actions. <3

<(8D) .....<(8D)
^My hat ^Wylted's hat
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Beginner
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1/8/2015 3:44:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 3:21:22 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
I don't think this is the argument you think it is. Nothing cannot succeed. Indeed. Nothing can only fail.

And yet, at this very moment, we have nothing on the throne. And nothing is succeeding.
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EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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1/8/2015 4:13:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 3:44:09 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 3:21:22 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
I don't think this is the argument you think it is. Nothing cannot succeed. Indeed. Nothing can only fail.

And yet, at this very moment, we have nothing on the throne. And nothing is succeeding.

It's definitely not, but then, this contradicts what you said earlier anyway.
Beginner
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1/8/2015 4:15:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 4:13:03 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/8/2015 3:44:09 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 3:21:22 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
I don't think this is the argument you think it is. Nothing cannot succeed. Indeed. Nothing can only fail.

And yet, at this very moment, we have nothing on the throne. And nothing is succeeding.

It's definitely not, but then, this contradicts what you said earlier anyway.
NOTHING will not practically be elected. Thus nothing cannot succeed.
However, the void of a functional presidency is succeeding.
Hence, nothing, in functional terms, is succeeding
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EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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1/8/2015 4:17:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 4:15:52 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:13:03 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/8/2015 3:44:09 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 3:21:22 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
I don't think this is the argument you think it is. Nothing cannot succeed. Indeed. Nothing can only fail.

And yet, at this very moment, we have nothing on the throne. And nothing is succeeding.

It's definitely not, but then, this contradicts what you said earlier anyway.
NOTHING will not practically be elected. Thus nothing cannot succeed.
However, the void of a functional presidency is succeeding.
Hence, nothing, in functional terms, is succeeding

The void of a functional presidency is not succeeding...like, at all. 0 tournaments. 0 initiatives with Juggle. 0 anything but drama.
Beginner
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1/8/2015 4:21:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 4:17:02 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
The void of a functional presidency is not succeeding...like, at all. 0 tournaments. 0 initiatives with Juggle. 0 anything but drama.

We're still here aren't we? People are still playing mafia, discussing religion, philosophy, etc.
People are still spawning and responding to opinions and polls.
People are still debating. <3
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EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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1/8/2015 4:23:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 4:21:42 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:17:02 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
The void of a functional presidency is not succeeding...like, at all. 0 tournaments. 0 initiatives with Juggle. 0 anything but drama.

We're still here aren't we? People are still playing mafia, discussing religion, philosophy, etc.
People are still spawning and responding to opinions and polls.
People are still debating. <3

And none of that is at all relevant.
Beginner
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1/8/2015 4:30:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 4:23:45 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:21:42 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:17:02 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
The void of a functional presidency is not succeeding...like, at all. 0 tournaments. 0 initiatives with Juggle. 0 anything but drama.

We're still here aren't we? People are still playing mafia, discussing religion, philosophy, etc.
People are still spawning and responding to opinions and polls.
People are still debating. <3

And none of that is at all relevant.

Contradiction of 0 anything. <3
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EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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1/8/2015 4:32:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 4:30:56 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:23:45 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:21:42 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:17:02 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
The void of a functional presidency is not succeeding...like, at all. 0 tournaments. 0 initiatives with Juggle. 0 anything but drama.

We're still here aren't we? People are still playing mafia, discussing religion, philosophy, etc.
People are still spawning and responding to opinions and polls.
People are still debating. <3

And none of that is at all relevant.

Contradiction of 0 anything. <3

Those were never in the realm of the presidency anyway...they remain at 0 because they're constants.
Beginner
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1/8/2015 4:34:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 4:32:11 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:30:56 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:23:45 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:21:42 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:17:02 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
The void of a functional presidency is not succeeding...like, at all. 0 tournaments. 0 initiatives with Juggle. 0 anything but drama.

We're still here aren't we? People are still playing mafia, discussing religion, philosophy, etc.
People are still spawning and responding to opinions and polls.
People are still debating. <3

And none of that is at all relevant.

Contradiction of 0 anything. <3

Those were never in the realm of the presidency anyway...they remain at 0 because they're constants.

Basically, all activities not related to the presidency fails to qualify as 'anything', and that only the presidency has any significance on the site.
Can the system be any more self-serving?
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Beginner
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1/8/2015 4:40:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 4:17:02 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
The void of a functional presidency is not succeeding...like, at all. 0 tournaments.
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
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EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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1/8/2015 4:54:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 4:40:53 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:17:02 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
The void of a functional presidency is not succeeding...like, at all. 0 tournaments.
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

Guess what. We had a president during each of those.
Beginner
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1/8/2015 5:03:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 4:54:36 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:40:53 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 1/8/2015 4:17:02 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
The void of a functional presidency is not succeeding...like, at all. 0 tournaments.
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

Guess what. We had a president during each of those.

At 1/8/2015 4:17:02 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
The void of a functional presidency is not succeeding...like, at all. 0 tournaments.

At 1/8/2015 4:17:02 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
0 tournaments.

At 1/8/2015 4:17:02 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
0
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