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J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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6/16/2010 11:43:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Ok, now that school is out, finals are over, and there aren't many open houses left to go to, I'll be completely open for debate challenges once I get back from Traverse City next sunday. I have Freeman lined up for a debate on the Kyoto Protocol, and Reasoning for a debate on libertarian socialism.

After that, I'm interested in these topics:

- Drug Legalization - PRO
- Morality is Objective - PRO
- Rule-based (Kantian) Ethics is Superior to Utilitarianism - PRO
- Torturing Terror Suspects - CON

I've also been itching to debate wjmelements on solipsism. Freedo, I'm calling you out for the billionth time: outline your ideal society and we'll debate it on ethical and practical grounds.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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6/17/2010 6:15:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/16/2010 11:43:33 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Ok, now that school is out, finals are over, and there aren't many open houses left to go to, I'll be completely open for debate challenges once I get back from Traverse City next sunday. I have Freeman lined up for a debate on the Kyoto Protocol, and Reasoning for a debate on libertarian socialism.

After that, I'm interested in these topics:

- Drug Legalization - PRO
- Morality is Objective - PRO
- Rule-based (Kantian) Ethics is Superior to Utilitarianism - PRO
- Torturing Terror Suspects - CON

I've also been itching to debate wjmelements on solipsism. Freedo, I'm calling you out for the billionth time: outline your ideal society and we'll debate it on ethical and practical grounds.

I agree with you on all of those. :S
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Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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6/17/2010 6:34:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 6:15:00 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/16/2010 11:43:33 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Ok, now that school is out, finals are over, and there aren't many open houses left to go to, I'll be completely open for debate challenges once I get back from Traverse City next sunday. I have Freeman lined up for a debate on the Kyoto Protocol, and Reasoning for a debate on libertarian socialism.

After that, I'm interested in these topics:

- Drug Legalization - PRO
- Morality is Objective - PRO
- Rule-based (Kantian) Ethics is Superior to Utilitarianism - PRO
- Torturing Terror Suspects - CON

I've also been itching to debate wjmelements on solipsism. Freedo, I'm calling you out for the billionth time: outline your ideal society and we'll debate it on ethical and practical grounds.

I agree with you on all of those. :S

I bet you could attack his argument for objective morality though.
MTGandP
Posts: 702
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6/17/2010 9:34:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I might be able to take you on Kantian vs. Utilitarian, as I'm pretty strongly Utilitarian myself. What sort of argument were you planning on making? (You don't have to go into too much detail, but I'd like to know what I'd be getting into.)
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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6/17/2010 12:44:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 12:41:19 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
- Morality is Objective - PRO

I'll take that.

I thought you said "subjective morality is an idotic position" just the other day?
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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6/17/2010 12:54:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 12:44:34 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 6/17/2010 12:41:19 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
- Morality is Objective - PRO

I'll take that.

I thought you said "subjective morality is an idotic position" just the other day?

...moral skepticism?
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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6/17/2010 1:15:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/16/2010 11:43:33 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Ok, now that school is out, finals are over, and there aren't many open houses left to go to, I'll be completely open for debate challenges once I get back from Traverse City next sunday. I have Freeman lined up for a debate on the Kyoto Protocol, and Reasoning for a debate on libertarian socialism.

After that, I'm interested in these topics:


- Torturing Terror Suspects - CON

I can issue you the challenge at any time.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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6/17/2010 1:16:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 1:15:16 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 6/16/2010 11:43:33 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Ok, now that school is out, finals are over, and there aren't many open houses left to go to, I'll be completely open for debate challenges once I get back from Traverse City next sunday. I have Freeman lined up for a debate on the Kyoto Protocol, and Reasoning for a debate on libertarian socialism.

After that, I'm interested in these topics:


- Torturing Terror Suspects - CON

I can issue you the challenge at any time.

This is more interesting than arguing about carbon emissions.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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6/17/2010 1:19:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 12:41:19 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
- Morality is Objective - PRO

I'll take that.

I've always wanted to see you give a defense of J.L. Mackie's moral error theory, if that is indeed what you would be doing.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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6/17/2010 1:36:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 1:19:23 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 6/17/2010 12:41:19 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
- Morality is Objective - PRO

I'll take that.

I've always wanted to see you give a defense of J.L. Mackie's moral error theory, if that is indeed what you would be doing.

Nah, practical moral skepticism :). Mackie's theory is great, but not only do I find some possible holes myself, but I discovered that practical moral skepticism is closer to my original worries about moral objectivism.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/17/2010 1:36:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 1:29:08 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
I disagree with you on all those issues.

A Christian against objective morality? How?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/17/2010 1:38:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 1:36:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
A Christian against objective morality? How?

He's not a Christian anymore. Keep up with the times, Geo.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/17/2010 1:39:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 1:38:09 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/17/2010 1:36:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
A Christian against objective morality? How?

He's not a Christian anymore. Keep up with the times, Geo.

He went back to being a Christian. :P
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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6/17/2010 1:45:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 1:36:10 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
At 6/17/2010 1:19:23 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 6/17/2010 12:41:19 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
- Morality is Objective - PRO

I'll take that.

I've always wanted to see you give a defense of J.L. Mackie's moral error theory, if that is indeed what you would be doing.

Nah, practical moral skepticism :). Mackie's theory is great, but not only do I find some possible holes myself, but I discovered that practical moral skepticism is closer to my original worries about moral objectivism.

Hmm... Ok

That sounds interesting.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/17/2010 1:48:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 1:38:09 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/17/2010 1:36:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
A Christian against objective morality? How?

He's not a Christian anymore. Keep up with the times, Geo.

You're behind. He went back to Christianity a few days ago.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/17/2010 1:50:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 1:48:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You're behind. He went back to Christianity a few days ago.

No way! Think we can team up and convert him again?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/17/2010 1:51:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 1:50:06 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/17/2010 1:48:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You're behind. He went back to Christianity a few days ago.

No way! Think we can team up and convert him again?

He's born again! I don't think that's possible!
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
omelet
Posts: 416
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6/17/2010 2:13:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 1:36:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/17/2010 1:29:08 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
I disagree with you on all those issues.

A Christian against objective morality? How?
I don't understand how Christians think morality is objective in the first place.
Just because it's God's opinion doesn't mean it's not an opinion.

Further, it seems to be subject to many things. For instance, it was morally commanded for the ancient Jews to do certain things, but it's morally repugnant for us to do the same [ex: stoning someone for working on the sabbath]. Thus, this morality seems to be subject to changing societal climes.

It's also not definitively laid out as it relates to modern social climes, but that's not quite as relevant.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/17/2010 2:31:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 1:51:55 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
He's born again! I don't think that's possible!

He's born again!?

Octo-sac, what have you done!
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/17/2010 2:31:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 2:13:09 PM, omelet wrote:
At 6/17/2010 1:36:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/17/2010 1:29:08 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
I disagree with you on all those issues.

A Christian against objective morality? How?
I don't understand how Christians think morality is objective in the first place.
Just because it's God's opinion doesn't mean it's not an opinion.

Further, it seems to be subject to many things. For instance, it was morally commanded for the ancient Jews to do certain things, but it's morally repugnant for us to do the same [ex: stoning someone for working on the sabbath]. Thus, this morality seems to be subject to changing societal climes.

It's also not definitively laid out as it relates to modern social climes, but that's not quite as relevant.

Somewhat agreed. I am a Christian, and I don't believe you guys will convert me ;)
omelet
Posts: 416
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6/17/2010 2:48:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 2:31:11 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Somewhat agreed. I am a Christian, and I don't believe you guys will convert me ;)

Just a quick question: what convinced you that Christianity was true / why are you a Christian?
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/17/2010 2:51:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 2:48:51 PM, omelet wrote:
At 6/17/2010 2:31:11 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Somewhat agreed. I am a Christian, and I don't believe you guys will convert me ;)

Just a quick question: what convinced you that Christianity was true / why are you a Christian?

I believe that Christianity is a belief. I'm not saying that it's true or isn't true; anyone can believe what they want, and this is what I have chosen to believe. You practice Judaism? Fine. Who am I to say that your beliefs are incorrect simply because I have a different religion? I am a Christian because I believe in Christ's strength and the message he tried to convey. I like what He stood for.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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6/17/2010 2:55:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 2:51:30 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
I'm not saying that it's true or isn't true; anyone can believe what they want

sure. People DO have the choice to be adamant in sillyness.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/17/2010 2:56:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 2:55:49 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 6/17/2010 2:51:30 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
I'm not saying that it's true or isn't true; anyone can believe what they want

sure. People DO have the choice to be adamant in sillyness.

That is true. I personally believe that you're somewhat of an a$$hole who randomly posts in threads that discuss religion just to make fun of theists.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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6/17/2010 2:58:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 2:56:57 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 6/17/2010 2:55:49 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 6/17/2010 2:51:30 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
I'm not saying that it's true or isn't true; anyone can believe what they want

sure. People DO have the choice to be adamant in sillyness.

That is true. I personally believe that you're somewhat of an a$$hole who randomly posts in threads that discuss religion just to make fun of theists.

lol...

and I believe your belief is quite unjustified!
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/17/2010 2:59:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/17/2010 2:58:30 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 6/17/2010 2:56:57 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 6/17/2010 2:55:49 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 6/17/2010 2:51:30 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
I'm not saying that it's true or isn't true; anyone can believe what they want

sure. People DO have the choice to be adamant in sillyness.

That is true. I personally believe that you're somewhat of an a$$hole who randomly posts in threads that discuss religion just to make fun of theists.

lol...

and I believe your belief is quite unjustified!

I believe you have made that quite obvious since day one.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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6/17/2010 2:59:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
oh... wait, I have a correction to make..

At 6/17/2010 2:58:30 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
and I **Personally** believe your belief is quite unjustified!
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."