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How do I become a great debater?

Benshapiro
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1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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1/23/2015 8:38:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Knowing your material is, of course, always good, but if you can't convey why the material backs up your view you're going to lose the debate. Rhetoric is arguably as important as logic if you want to win arguments. Study past debates and pay attention to how the debaters word their arguments and why.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
bossyburrito
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1/23/2015 8:38:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Though I'm not really qualified to give advice on how to debate, lol.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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1/23/2015 8:47:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Read Whiteflame, bsh1 and Bluesteels debates. Watch how they format and frame their arguments. Presentation is 50% of the job. Being concise and knowing your material is most of the rest.

Always make sure the debate and arguments remain on-topic and on-target. Cutting the fat offoif your arguments and being concise goes a long way.
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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1/23/2015 8:58:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Simply learn history, and the category you wish to debate. When the time comes, you're know what to say. History is vital though. History teaches more about fallacies and logic than any other course. Also, study Wikipedia's page on Fallacies. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Formatting isn't over important. Most formatting and prose is learned by doing.

A good tactic would be to take up a mentor who can teach you.
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donald.keller
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1/23/2015 9:01:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 8:47:59 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Read Whiteflame, bsh1 and Bluesteels debates. Watch how they format and frame their arguments. Presentation is 50% of the job. Being concise and knowing your material is most of the rest.

My formatting goods too <_<
Don't want too much formatting, or it gets crowded. Voters don't like crowded. Gotta learn to blend format and simplicity.

Always make sure the debate and arguments remain on-topic and on-target. Cutting the fat offoif your arguments and being concise goes a long way.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

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bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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1/23/2015 10:01:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Practice.

It may sound cliched, but it's 100% true. The more you do it, the better you get.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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RevNge
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1/23/2015 10:04:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:01:25 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Practice.

It may sound cliched, but it's 100% true. The more you do it, the better you get.

It is cliched.
bsh1
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1/23/2015 10:04:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:04:08 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:01:25 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Practice.

It may sound cliched, but it's 100% true. The more you do it, the better you get.

It is cliched.

True, but that doesn't make it less accurate.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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1/23/2015 10:31:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Look at bsh1, white flame and Bluesteel. Do what they do.
Tsar of DDO
RevNge
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1/23/2015 10:32:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:31:14 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Look at bsh1, white flame, YYW, and Bluesteel. Do what they do.

Fix'd
YYW
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1/23/2015 10:34:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:32:35 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:31:14 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Look at bsh1, white flame, YYW, and Bluesteel. Do what they do.

Fix'd

Thanks, but I thought it might be a bit too preposterous to include myself in that list ;)
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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1/23/2015 10:36:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:34:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:32:35 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:31:14 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Look at bsh1, white flame, YYW, and Bluesteel. Do what they do.

Fix'd

Thanks, but I thought it might be a bit too preposterous to include myself in that list ;)

You are one of the 5 best debaters on the site. It's not preposterous at all.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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1/23/2015 10:36:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:34:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:32:35 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:31:14 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Look at bsh1, white flame, YYW, and Bluesteel. Do what they do.

Fix'd

Thanks, but I thought it might be a bit too preposterous to include myself in that list ;)

Have no shame, bruh. :P
YYW
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1/23/2015 10:37:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:36:16 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:34:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:32:35 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:31:14 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Look at bsh1, white flame, YYW, and Bluesteel. Do what they do.

Fix'd

Thanks, but I thought it might be a bit too preposterous to include myself in that list ;)

You are one of the 5 best debaters on the site. It's not preposterous at all.

Cheers.
Tsar of DDO
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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1/23/2015 11:25:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Imo, Read the debates of high profile members, such as Roylatham and Bluesteel. Formal logic you don't need unless you want to debate philosophy, in which case it would really, really help.
Music composition contest: http://www.debate.org...
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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1/23/2015 11:30:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:31:14 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Look at bsh1, white flame and Bluesteel. And Donald.Keller (learn formatting from his Islam debate). Do what they do.

There. You must have got distracted or something, because you forgot to type all that :)
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

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YYW
Posts: 36,289
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1/23/2015 11:36:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 11:30:37 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:31:14 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Look at bsh1, white flame and Bluesteel. And Donald.Keller (learn formatting from his Islam debate). Do what they do.

There. You must have got distracted or something, because you forgot to type all that :)

Woe is me.
Tsar of DDO
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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1/23/2015 11:51:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 11:36:41 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 11:30:37 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:31:14 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Look at bsh1, white flame and Bluesteel. And Donald.Keller (learn formatting from his Islam debate). Do what they do.

There. You must have got distracted or something, because you forgot to type all that :)

Woe is me.

You come in next chapter on DGO, btw.

I have special plans for you and Bsh.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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1/23/2015 11:54:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 11:51:50 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/23/2015 11:36:41 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 11:30:37 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:31:14 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Look at bsh1, white flame and Bluesteel. And Donald.Keller (learn formatting from his Islam debate). Do what they do.

There. You must have got distracted or something, because you forgot to type all that :)

Woe is me.

You come in next chapter on DGO, btw.

I have special plans for you and Bsh.

Do tell...
Tsar of DDO
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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1/23/2015 11:57:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 11:54:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 11:51:50 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/23/2015 11:36:41 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 11:30:37 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:31:14 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Look at bsh1, white flame and Bluesteel. And Donald.Keller (learn formatting from his Islam debate). Do what they do.

There. You must have got distracted or something, because you forgot to type all that :)

Woe is me.

You come in next chapter on DGO, btw.

I have special plans for you and Bsh.

Do tell...

Spoilers...
Just understand. I don't start with the status quo. I build up to the status quo. Love means more when it's built up to, not started off with.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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1/24/2015 10:19:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Thanks for all the replies everyone. My first step will be to read over debates from the members mentioned.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/24/2015 10:26:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 10:19:54 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Thanks for all the replies everyone. My first step will be to read over debates from the members mentioned.

Look at my first debates. Fvcking terrible. I was also young as sh!t, but terrible. Some of the kids on here are best NA at that age. I was dumb as a mouse with cancer in its brain. I didn't understand grammar, reading comprehension, etc. Hell, I still don't understand grammar I mostly guess. But now I have beaten RoyLatham and my debate with Danielle is undecided--but I have some points guaranteed, at least. So I am not total sh!t anymore. Now some people (bluesteel, whiteflame, thett) could still probably wipe their a$$ with my arguments. But I have gotten better. So how did I do it? I spammed noob snipes. And would write decent arguments against noobs. Then when I mastered that, I kept noob sniping. Reason: stats. Now I am okay.

So basically practice. Formatting. I have found source spam (23 sources per round sometimes) really helps.
"I have one study" - opponent
"cool story bro, I have 15" - Me

lolol
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/24/2015 10:50:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Why do you want to become a great debater?

Are you sure you want to be a great debater?

What do you really want to gain from being a great debater?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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1/24/2015 11:07:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 10:50:00 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Why do you want to become a great debater?

Lots of reasons. It would help me be a more effective communicator. It would teach me how to learn and how to think. I'd be more discerning of logically fallacious arguments on DDO and in the real world.

Are you sure you want to be a great debater?

Yeah. By "great" I just mean highly effective or skilled. I don't mean "great" to mean that I'm seeking glory, riches, or fame out of this.

What do you really want to gain from being a great debater?

The same reasons for why I want to become a great debater.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/24/2015 11:10:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 11:07:13 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/24/2015 10:50:00 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Why do you want to become a great debater?

Lots of reasons. It would help me be a more effective communicator. It would teach me how to learn and how to think. I'd be more discerning of logically fallacious arguments on DDO and in the real world.

Are you sure you want to be a great debater?

Yeah. By "great" I just mean highly effective or skilled. I don't mean "great" to mean that I'm seeking glory, riches, or fame out of this.

What do you really want to gain from being a great debater?

The same reasons for why I want to become a great debater.

Then maybe you should keep focus on your real goals and don't let the goal of being a great debater get in the way of that.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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1/24/2015 11:12:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 11:10:11 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/24/2015 11:07:13 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/24/2015 10:50:00 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Why do you want to become a great debater?

Lots of reasons. It would help me be a more effective communicator. It would teach me how to learn and how to think. I'd be more discerning of logically fallacious arguments on DDO and in the real world.

Are you sure you want to be a great debater?

Yeah. By "great" I just mean highly effective or skilled. I don't mean "great" to mean that I'm seeking glory, riches, or fame out of this.

What do you really want to gain from being a great debater?

The same reasons for why I want to become a great debater.

Then maybe you should keep focus on your real goals and don't let the goal of being a great debater get in the way of that.

Perhaps my focus should be on my goals and being a great debater will follow after that.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/24/2015 11:13:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 11:12:10 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/24/2015 11:10:11 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/24/2015 11:07:13 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/24/2015 10:50:00 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Why do you want to become a great debater?

Lots of reasons. It would help me be a more effective communicator. It would teach me how to learn and how to think. I'd be more discerning of logically fallacious arguments on DDO and in the real world.

Are you sure you want to be a great debater?

Yeah. By "great" I just mean highly effective or skilled. I don't mean "great" to mean that I'm seeking glory, riches, or fame out of this.

What do you really want to gain from being a great debater?

The same reasons for why I want to become a great debater.

Then maybe you should keep focus on your real goals and don't let the goal of being a great debater get in the way of that.

Perhaps my focus should be on my goals and being a great debater will follow after that.

Perhaps but if you become a great communicater, who gives a crap about the rest?
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/24/2015 11:15:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Actually the best way to become good is debate the pros and lose... You accidentally begin using their tactics to win--and it works. Bluesteel, Danielle, RoyLatham, Thett3 (via Royal), etc. have all beaten me in debates before. But I learned. Now I have beaten Roy and am doing well against Danielle.

So in short: Get your a$$ kicked and you get better
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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1/24/2015 11:21:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 11:13:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/24/2015 11:12:10 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/24/2015 11:10:11 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/24/2015 11:07:13 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/24/2015 10:50:00 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:32:16 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
What's the best use of my time? How should I portion it out?

Studying formal logic? Studying the material I want to debate? Analyzing debates from successful users on the site? Outside reading?

If you were to make a plan for somebody looking to improve, how would you plan it out?

Why do you want to become a great debater?

Lots of reasons. It would help me be a more effective communicator. It would teach me how to learn and how to think. I'd be more discerning of logically fallacious arguments on DDO and in the real world.

Are you sure you want to be a great debater?

Yeah. By "great" I just mean highly effective or skilled. I don't mean "great" to mean that I'm seeking glory, riches, or fame out of this.

What do you really want to gain from being a great debater?

The same reasons for why I want to become a great debater.

Then maybe you should keep focus on your real goals and don't let the goal of being a great debater get in the way of that.

Perhaps my focus should be on my goals and being a great debater will follow after that.

Perhaps but if you become a great communicater, who gives a crap about the rest?

Some great communicators are ridden with logically fallacious rhetoric. I want to be one who can discern true arguments.