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Definition of homophobia: you decide

bluesteel
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2/4/2015 11:57:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Homophobia is defined by the dictionary as: "dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people."

Some people on this site have argued that homophobia means an irrational fear of gay people. These people's reasoning is that the word "phobia" means an extreme or irrational fear. So homophobia cannot mean mere prejudice; it must mean that whenever you see a gay person, your natural instinct is to run away and hide. These people would presumably argue that dictionaries are dumb and wrong. "Phobia" means what it means.

Bluesteel pointed out that while the root phobia means "fear," that doesn't mean that every word that uses it should be taken literally. Hydrophobic compounds are ones that tend to "aggregate in aqueous solution and exclude water molecules." Oils are hydrophobic. That doesn't mean these compounds literally have an irrational fear of water. The fear root is a rough analogy because the compounds do not mix with water, but rather seem to push it away. Similarly, homophobic people do not literally fear gay people, but dislike and prejudice are close analogies to fear, just like excluding water is analogous to fearing it.

And whatever: the dictionary defines homophobic as being about prejudice, not an extreme fear.

Anyways, you decide. Which definition of homophobic is more reasonable?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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2/5/2015 12:07:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 11:57:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Homophobia is defined by the dictionary as: "dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people."

Some people on this site have argued that homophobia means an irrational fear of gay people. These people's reasoning is that the word "phobia" means an extreme or irrational fear. So homophobia cannot mean mere prejudice; it must mean that whenever you see a gay person, your natural instinct is to run away and hide. These people would presumably argue that dictionaries are dumb and wrong. "Phobia" means what it means.

Bluesteel pointed out that while the root phobia means "fear," that doesn't mean that every word that uses it should be taken literally. Hydrophobic compounds are ones that tend to "aggregate in aqueous solution and exclude water molecules." Oils are hydrophobic. That doesn't mean these compounds literally have an irrational fear of water. The fear root is a rough analogy because the compounds do not mix with water, but rather seem to push it away. Similarly, homophobic people do not literally fear gay people, but dislike and prejudice are close analogies to fear, just like excluding water is analogous to fearing it.

And whatever: the dictionary defines homophobic as being about prejudice, not an extreme fear.

Anyways, you decide. Which definition of homophobic is more reasonable?

"Homophobia is the term used to describe the irrational fear, hatred, aversion to or discrimination against people who are homosexual, or same-sex attracted, or who are perceived to be homosexual or same-sex attracted."

http://www.acon.org.au...

What is the most common form of the root term 'phobia?' It is an "irrational fear". Obviously, the LGBT community have hijacked certain areas in order to change the definition from what would be the common sense definition, to one which is skewed in their favour (easier to apply). Not to mention the pettiness in arguing purely semantics.

I think you owe "some people" an apology.
bluesteel
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2/5/2015 12:12:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 12:07:20 AM, Zarroette wrote:
At 2/4/2015 11:57:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Homophobia is defined by the dictionary as: "dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people."

Some people on this site have argued that homophobia means an irrational fear of gay people. These people's reasoning is that the word "phobia" means an extreme or irrational fear. So homophobia cannot mean mere prejudice; it must mean that whenever you see a gay person, your natural instinct is to run away and hide. These people would presumably argue that dictionaries are dumb and wrong. "Phobia" means what it means.

Bluesteel pointed out that while the root phobia means "fear," that doesn't mean that every word that uses it should be taken literally. Hydrophobic compounds are ones that tend to "aggregate in aqueous solution and exclude water molecules." Oils are hydrophobic. That doesn't mean these compounds literally have an irrational fear of water. The fear root is a rough analogy because the compounds do not mix with water, but rather seem to push it away. Similarly, homophobic people do not literally fear gay people, but dislike and prejudice are close analogies to fear, just like excluding water is analogous to fearing it.

And whatever: the dictionary defines homophobic as being about prejudice, not an extreme fear.

Anyways, you decide. Which definition of homophobic is more reasonable?

"Homophobia is the term used to describe the irrational fear, hatred, aversion to or discrimination against people who are homosexual, or same-sex attracted, or who are perceived to be homosexual or same-sex attracted."

http://www.acon.org.au...

What is the most common form of the root term 'phobia?' It is an "irrational fear". Obviously, the LGBT community have hijacked certain areas in order to change the definition from what would be the common sense definition, to one which is skewed in their favour (easier to apply). Not to mention the pettiness in arguing purely semantics.

I think you owe "some people" an apology.

Your definition includes mine. You said my definition is wrong. If yours includes mine, it's not wrong.

The rest is just your own homophobic rewriting of history. You and Justice Scalia have something in common in terms of raging about how the LGBT lobby has destroyed the country by tricking everyone to come over to their side.

I'm not apologizing for thinking the dictionary definition of a word is the correct definition. You claim you're not homophobic because while you dislike gay sex, you don't irrationally fear gay people. That's more of a perversion of the English language than is the perversion of marriage that you claim would occur if we allowed gay sex to happen within it.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
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2/5/2015 12:22:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 12:12:37 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/5/2015 12:07:20 AM, Zarroette wrote:
At 2/4/2015 11:57:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Homophobia is defined by the dictionary as: "dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people."

Some people on this site have argued that homophobia means an irrational fear of gay people. These people's reasoning is that the word "phobia" means an extreme or irrational fear. So homophobia cannot mean mere prejudice; it must mean that whenever you see a gay person, your natural instinct is to run away and hide. These people would presumably argue that dictionaries are dumb and wrong. "Phobia" means what it means.

Bluesteel pointed out that while the root phobia means "fear," that doesn't mean that every word that uses it should be taken literally. Hydrophobic compounds are ones that tend to "aggregate in aqueous solution and exclude water molecules." Oils are hydrophobic. That doesn't mean these compounds literally have an irrational fear of water. The fear root is a rough analogy because the compounds do not mix with water, but rather seem to push it away. Similarly, homophobic people do not literally fear gay people, but dislike and prejudice are close analogies to fear, just like excluding water is analogous to fearing it.

And whatever: the dictionary defines homophobic as being about prejudice, not an extreme fear.

Anyways, you decide. Which definition of homophobic is more reasonable?

"Homophobia is the term used to describe the irrational fear, hatred, aversion to or discrimination against people who are homosexual, or same-sex attracted, or who are perceived to be homosexual or same-sex attracted."

http://www.acon.org.au...

What is the most common form of the root term 'phobia?' It is an "irrational fear". Obviously, the LGBT community have hijacked certain areas in order to change the definition from what would be the common sense definition, to one which is skewed in their favour (easier to apply). Not to mention the pettiness in arguing purely semantics.

I think you owe "some people" an apology.

Your definition includes mine. You said my definition is wrong. If yours includes mine, it's not wrong.

The rest is just your own homophobic rewriting of history. You and Justice Scalia have something in common in terms of raging about how the LGBT lobby has destroyed the country by tricking everyone to come over to their side.

I'm not apologizing for thinking the dictionary definition of a word is the correct definition. You claim you're not homophobic because while you dislike gay sex, you don't irrationally fear gay people. That's more of a perversion of the English language than is the perversion of marriage that you claim would occur if we allowed gay sex to happen within it.

Not sure if serious or troll...
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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2/5/2015 12:26:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 12:22:09 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 2/5/2015 12:12:37 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/5/2015 12:07:20 AM, Zarroette wrote:
At 2/4/2015 11:57:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Homophobia is defined by the dictionary as: "dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people."

Some people on this site have argued that homophobia means an irrational fear of gay people. These people's reasoning is that the word "phobia" means an extreme or irrational fear. So homophobia cannot mean mere prejudice; it must mean that whenever you see a gay person, your natural instinct is to run away and hide. These people would presumably argue that dictionaries are dumb and wrong. "Phobia" means what it means.

Bluesteel pointed out that while the root phobia means "fear," that doesn't mean that every word that uses it should be taken literally. Hydrophobic compounds are ones that tend to "aggregate in aqueous solution and exclude water molecules." Oils are hydrophobic. That doesn't mean these compounds literally have an irrational fear of water. The fear root is a rough analogy because the compounds do not mix with water, but rather seem to push it away. Similarly, homophobic people do not literally fear gay people, but dislike and prejudice are close analogies to fear, just like excluding water is analogous to fearing it.

And whatever: the dictionary defines homophobic as being about prejudice, not an extreme fear.

Anyways, you decide. Which definition of homophobic is more reasonable?

"Homophobia is the term used to describe the irrational fear, hatred, aversion to or discrimination against people who are homosexual, or same-sex attracted, or who are perceived to be homosexual or same-sex attracted."

http://www.acon.org.au...

What is the most common form of the root term 'phobia?' It is an "irrational fear". Obviously, the LGBT community have hijacked certain areas in order to change the definition from what would be the common sense definition, to one which is skewed in their favour (easier to apply). Not to mention the pettiness in arguing purely semantics.

I think you owe "some people" an apology.

Your definition includes mine. You said my definition is wrong. If yours includes mine, it's not wrong.

The rest is just your own homophobic rewriting of history. You and Justice Scalia have something in common in terms of raging about how the LGBT lobby has destroyed the country by tricking everyone to come over to their side.

I'm not apologizing for thinking the dictionary definition of a word is the correct definition. You claim you're not homophobic because while you dislike gay sex, you don't irrationally fear gay people. That's more of a perversion of the English language than is the perversion of marriage that you claim would occur if we allowed gay sex to happen within it.

Not sure if serious or troll...

I hope he's not trolling because I just unloaded on his ability to mentor...
Maikuru
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2/5/2015 12:27:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I enjoy these "you decide" threads. I've already decided on this one and the last one, so I'll need another soon.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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Zaradi
Posts: 14,123
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2/5/2015 12:27:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 12:26:06 AM, Zarroette wrote:
At 2/5/2015 12:22:09 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 2/5/2015 12:12:37 AM, bluesteel wrote:

Your definition includes mine. You said my definition is wrong. If yours includes mine, it's not wrong.

The rest is just your own homophobic rewriting of history. You and Justice Scalia have something in common in terms of raging about how the LGBT lobby has destroyed the country by tricking everyone to come over to their side.

I'm not apologizing for thinking the dictionary definition of a word is the correct definition. You claim you're not homophobic because while you dislike gay sex, you don't irrationally fear gay people. That's more of a perversion of the English language than is the perversion of marriage that you claim would occur if we allowed gay sex to happen within it.

Not sure if serious or troll...

I hope he's not trolling because I just unloaded on his ability to mentor...

Like, the bolded makes me think he's being serious because it seems like a serious response...

Then the underlined just looks like straight troll...
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/5/2015 12:35:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Etymology is not the same thing as definition.

The American Heritage Dictionary is my preferred reference, as it has very strict standards of admittance and definition. According to the AHD, literally means literally, 'artistical' isn't a word, and words like irregardless and ain't are accompanied by lengthy disclaimers concerning their history and why their usage isn't acceptable in Standard English. It's the gold standard, as far as dictionaries go.

According to the AHD, Homophobic has a very simple, straightforward definition: 'Fear, hatred, or mistrust of lesbians and gay men.' If there were an actual lexicographical controversy to be had here, they would have gone into it in detail. This is a dictionary which has published articles on in which case it is acceptable to use plural or singular pronouns when describing a gaggle of geese or a murder of crows. It is the Reichstag of the Grammar Nazi movement. I don't think they would have missed any viable alternative definition.

In the end, the furor over this word is entirely manufactured as a red herring. This is done in order to distract from the fact that it is a legitimate pejorative label for emotionally laden arguments, and those who promote such arguments with a sort of morbid fixation. It's downright silly.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
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2/5/2015 12:50:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
-phobe
suff.
One that fears or is averse to a specified thing: ailurophobe.
[French, from Latin -phobus, from Greek -phobos, fearing, from phobos, fear; see bhegw- in the Appendix of Indo-European roots.]
https://ahdictionary.com...

-phobia
suff.
An intense fear of or aversion to a specified thing: xenophobia.
[Late Latin, from Greek -phobiā, from phobos, fear; see bhegw- in the Appendix of Indo-European roots.]
https://ahdictionary.com...

Both suffixes can denote fear or aversion. Hence words like hydrophobic (bluesteels example). In botany, my field, a plant which is adapted to grow in the shade is referred to as photophobic. It can also refer to negative phototropism, which is when a plant (or part of a plant) grows away from light instead of towards it. The suffix enjoys a very broad range of use which far outstrips the popularly known clinical usages.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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2/5/2015 5:59:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 12:07:20 AM, Zarroette wrote:
At 2/4/2015 11:57:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Homophobia is defined by the dictionary as: "dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people."

Some people on this site have argued that homophobia means an irrational fear of gay people. These people's reasoning is that the word "phobia" means an extreme or irrational fear. So homophobia cannot mean mere prejudice; it must mean that whenever you see a gay person, your natural instinct is to run away and hide. These people would presumably argue that dictionaries are dumb and wrong. "Phobia" means what it means.

Bluesteel pointed out that while the root phobia means "fear," that doesn't mean that every word that uses it should be taken literally. Hydrophobic compounds are ones that tend to "aggregate in aqueous solution and exclude water molecules." Oils are hydrophobic. That doesn't mean these compounds literally have an irrational fear of water. The fear root is a rough analogy because the compounds do not mix with water, but rather seem to push it away. Similarly, homophobic people do not literally fear gay people, but dislike and prejudice are close analogies to fear, just like excluding water is analogous to fearing it.

And whatever: the dictionary defines homophobic as being about prejudice, not an extreme fear.

Anyways, you decide. Which definition of homophobic is more reasonable?

"Homophobia is the term used to describe the irrational fear, hatred, aversion to or discrimination against people who are homosexual, or same-sex attracted, or who are perceived to be homosexual or same-sex attracted."

http://www.acon.org.au...

What is the most common form of the root term 'phobia?' It is an "irrational fear".
I like how you conveniently ignored like, 3/4 of your own definition. Irrational aversion towards homosexuals does not necessarily constitute someone having a fear of them, nor does irrational hatred or does actively discriminating against them.

This applies the same way that an xenophobe who hates immigrants will not be forced to run out of a restaurant when a pair of asian people sits down. Sure, *SOME* xenophobes might, but the definition of xenophobia is:

An unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange

So, no, the suffix "phobia" does not necessarily constitute an irrational fear; it can constitute any irrational aversions, hatred, or discriminatory tendencies towards whatever is mentioned in the stem of the word (esp. when applied to people or groups of people).

If your basis for having an aversion or disliking of gay people is inherently irrational, then you are homophobic even if you don't "fear" them. Young children could understand this concept.

Obviously, the LGBT community have hijacked certain areas in order to change the definition from what would be the common sense definition, to one which is skewed in their favour (easier to apply). Not to mention the pettiness in arguing purely semantics.
You have done nothing other than argue semantics. The definition of the word is mutually agreed on by the writers of most dictionaries, and yet you insist on it's invalidity because of arguments related to semantics and some weird, skewed interpretation of the term.
I think you owe "some people" an apology.
F _ C K
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TN05
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2/5/2015 6:01:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 11:57:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Homophobia is defined by the dictionary as: "dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people."

Some people on this site have argued that homophobia means an irrational fear of gay people. These people's reasoning is that the word "phobia" means an extreme or irrational fear. So homophobia cannot mean mere prejudice; it must mean that whenever you see a gay person, your natural instinct is to run away and hide. These people would presumably argue that dictionaries are dumb and wrong. "Phobia" means what it means.

Bluesteel pointed out that while the root phobia means "fear," that doesn't mean that every word that uses it should be taken literally. Hydrophobic compounds are ones that tend to "aggregate in aqueous solution and exclude water molecules." Oils are hydrophobic. That doesn't mean these compounds literally have an irrational fear of water. The fear root is a rough analogy because the compounds do not mix with water, but rather seem to push it away. Similarly, homophobic people do not literally fear gay people, but dislike and prejudice are close analogies to fear, just like excluding water is analogous to fearing it.

And whatever: the dictionary defines homophobic as being about prejudice, not an extreme fear.

Anyways, you decide. Which definition of homophobic is more reasonable?

'Extreme fear' is more reasonable because it makes etymological sense, giving it actual meaning instead of being a word used to ridicule people you disagree with.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/5/2015 6:05:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's been redefined. It used to mean just an irrational fear, which was more common just 10 years ago. I kinda hate how society redefines things.
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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2/5/2015 6:28:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:05:09 AM, Wylted wrote:
It's been redefined. It used to mean just an irrational fear, which was more common just 10 years ago. I kinda hate how society redefines things.

I think there has been a push by some large entity to change the definition of this word so that it could be easier used (irrational fear implies that there is a problem with homosexuality). Why else would this common understanding be changed?
Zarroette
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2/5/2015 6:34:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 5:59:19 AM, Daltonian wrote:
At 2/5/2015 12:07:20 AM, Zarroette wrote:
At 2/4/2015 11:57:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Homophobia is defined by the dictionary as: "dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people."

Some people on this site have argued that homophobia means an irrational fear of gay people. These people's reasoning is that the word "phobia" means an extreme or irrational fear. So homophobia cannot mean mere prejudice; it must mean that whenever you see a gay person, your natural instinct is to run away and hide. These people would presumably argue that dictionaries are dumb and wrong. "Phobia" means what it means.

Bluesteel pointed out that while the root phobia means "fear," that doesn't mean that every word that uses it should be taken literally. Hydrophobic compounds are ones that tend to "aggregate in aqueous solution and exclude water molecules." Oils are hydrophobic. That doesn't mean these compounds literally have an irrational fear of water. The fear root is a rough analogy because the compounds do not mix with water, but rather seem to push it away. Similarly, homophobic people do not literally fear gay people, but dislike and prejudice are close analogies to fear, just like excluding water is analogous to fearing it.

And whatever: the dictionary defines homophobic as being about prejudice, not an extreme fear.

Anyways, you decide. Which definition of homophobic is more reasonable?

"Homophobia is the term used to describe the irrational fear, hatred, aversion to or discrimination against people who are homosexual, or same-sex attracted, or who are perceived to be homosexual or same-sex attracted."

http://www.acon.org.au...

What is the most common form of the root term 'phobia?' It is an "irrational fear".
I like how you conveniently ignored like, 3/4 of your own definition. Irrational aversion towards homosexuals does not necessarily constitute someone having a fear of them, nor does irrational hatred or does actively discriminating against them.

This applies the same way that an xenophobe who hates immigrants will not be forced to run out of a restaurant when a pair of asian people sits down. Sure, *SOME* xenophobes might, but the definition of xenophobia is:

An unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange

Well here's another example of where the definition has been changed to seemingly fit an agenda. Not that I know, but I reckon there's a good chance that this word was changed around the time multiculturalism was promoted. I'm onto something with this...


So, no, the suffix "phobia" does not necessarily constitute an irrational fear; it can constitute any irrational aversions, hatred, or discriminatory tendencies towards whatever is mentioned in the stem of the word (esp. when applied to people or groups of people).

If your basis for having an aversion or disliking of gay people is inherently irrational, then you are homophobic even if you don't "fear" them. Young children could understand this concept.

Who cares about petty semantics? Oh, you do. *pats head*


Obviously, the LGBT community have hijacked certain areas in order to change the definition from what would be the common sense definition, to one which is skewed in their favour (easier to apply). Not to mention the pettiness in arguing purely semantics.
You have done nothing other than argue semantics.

No. I suggested that the LGBT movement might have had something to do with this; they would be creating the context with biased definitions so that people talk in certain ways. Clever manipulation...

The definition of the word is mutually agreed on by the writers of most dictionaries, and yet you insist on it's invalidity because of arguments related to semantics and some weird, skewed interpretation of the term.
I think you owe "some people" an apology.
Bennett91
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2/5/2015 6:36:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 12:35:40 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:

It is the Reichstag of the Grammar Nazi movement. I don't think they would have missed any viable alternative definition.

In the end, the furor over this word ...

I see what you did there.
Bennett91
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2/5/2015 6:37:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:05:09 AM, Wylted wrote:
It's been redefined. It used to mean just an irrational fear, which was more common just 10 years ago. I kinda hate how society redefines things.

Yes, if only culture remained a static thing.
Wylted
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2/5/2015 6:38:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:28:51 AM, Zarroette wrote:
At 2/5/2015 6:05:09 AM, Wylted wrote:
It's been redefined. It used to mean just an irrational fear, which was more common just 10 years ago. I kinda hate how society redefines things.

I think there has been a push by some large entity to change the definition of this word so that it could be easier used (irrational fear implies that there is a problem with homosexuality). Why else would this common understanding be changed?

I'm not sure. It's queer that they would change it
Zarroette
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2/5/2015 6:40:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:38:45 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/5/2015 6:28:51 AM, Zarroette wrote:
At 2/5/2015 6:05:09 AM, Wylted wrote:
It's been redefined. It used to mean just an irrational fear, which was more common just 10 years ago. I kinda hate how society redefines things.

I think there has been a push by some large entity to change the definition of this word so that it could be easier used (irrational fear implies that there is a problem with homosexuality). Why else would this common understanding be changed?

I'm not sure. It's queer that they would change it

I don't think you're being straight with me: do you reckon that they did it?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/5/2015 6:42:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:05:09 AM, Wylted wrote:
It's been redefined. It used to mean just an irrational fear, which was more common just 10 years ago. I kinda hate how society redefines things.

That simply isn't true. People have been arguing over the vague status of the word and trying to narrow the definition to something testable since at least 1980 (http://www.tandfonline.com...).
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
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2/5/2015 6:45:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:36:23 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 2/5/2015 12:35:40 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:

It is the Reichstag of the Grammar Nazi movement. I don't think they would have missed any viable alternative definition.

In the end, the furor over this word ...

I see what you did there.

Lol, I smiled a little when I realized the connotation as well.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Wylted
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2/5/2015 6:52:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Most people used it to mean an actual fear or more accurately a cringe reaction to homosexuality as little as 10 years ago. It's the intended definition when the word originated and it's what should be used.
Zarroette
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2/5/2015 6:54:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:42:13 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 2/5/2015 6:05:09 AM, Wylted wrote:
It's been redefined. It used to mean just an irrational fear, which was more common just 10 years ago. I kinda hate how society redefines things.

That simply isn't true. People have been arguing over the vague status of the word and trying to narrow the definition to something testable since at least 1980 (http://www.tandfonline.com...).

And why this sudden need for a change in word's definition? What's going on here?
Bennett91
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2/5/2015 6:54:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:36:56 AM, Zarroette wrote:
Who would have thought a pointless tussle over semantics would make me realise some agenda is controlling our language?

You do realize part of politics is based on controlling the narrative and language of an issue right? Ever hear of Frank Luntz? He's the guy that renamed Estate Tax to Death Tax.

Depending on phrasing people can both support and reject the same issue without even knowing. For example, in California there's an extremely popular proposition called Prop 13, it basically stopped property taxes from going up. However it has caused problems and has made taxes too low causing budget shortfalls. Anyways, if you asked people if they'd be ok with property taxes going up to fund schools, many would say yes. But if you ask the same person if they want to repeal prop 13, they'll say no.

So bringing this back to the word homophobia, regardless of the actual word, there is an anti-gay sentiment that needs to have a word to reference it. And homophobia is the word in common usage. People will say anti-gay stuff and yet claim they are not homophobes. It's the same act but they don't want the label 'homophobe' with its negative connotations.
Zarroette
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2/5/2015 6:57:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:54:59 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 2/5/2015 6:36:56 AM, Zarroette wrote:
Who would have thought a pointless tussle over semantics would make me realise some agenda is controlling our language?

You do realize part of politics is based on controlling the narrative and language of an issue right? Ever hear of Frank Luntz? He's the guy that renamed Estate Tax to Death Tax.

I realise this now!


Depending on phrasing people can both support and reject the same issue without even knowing. For example, in California there's an extremely popular proposition called Prop 13, it basically stopped property taxes from going up. However it has caused problems and has made taxes too low causing budget shortfalls. Anyways, if you asked people if they'd be ok with property taxes going up to fund schools, many would say yes. But if you ask the same person if they want to repeal prop 13, they'll say no.

So bringing this back to the word homophobia, regardless of the actual word, there is an anti-gay sentiment that needs to have a word to reference it. And homophobia is the word in common usage. People will say anti-gay stuff and yet claim they are not homophobes. It's the same act but they don't want the label 'homophobe' with its negative connotations.

100% agree with all of this. Fascinating.
Wylted
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2/5/2015 6:59:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
You guys can create a new word for prejudice against homosexuals. Homophobia means fear of as originally intended.
Envisage
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2/5/2015 7:57:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 11:57:50 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Homophobia is defined by the dictionary as: "dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people."

Some people on this site have argued that homophobia means an irrational fear of gay people. These people's reasoning is that the word "phobia" means an extreme or irrational fear. So homophobia cannot mean mere prejudice; it must mean that whenever you see a gay person, your natural instinct is to run away and hide. These people would presumably argue that dictionaries are dumb and wrong. "Phobia" means what it means.

Bluesteel pointed out that while the root phobia means "fear," that doesn't mean that every word that uses it should be taken literally. Hydrophobic compounds are ones that tend to "aggregate in aqueous solution and exclude water molecules." Oils are hydrophobic. That doesn't mean these compounds literally have an irrational fear of water. The fear root is a rough analogy because the compounds do not mix with water, but rather seem to push it away. Similarly, homophobic people do not literally fear gay people, but dislike and prejudice are close analogies to fear, just like excluding water is analogous to fearing it.

And whatever: the dictionary defines homophobic as being about prejudice, not an extreme fear.

Anyways, you decide. Which definition of homophobic is more reasonable?

Words are simply labels for concepts. You can use any word to mean any concept. You call call homosexual people "squares" and straight people "circles", it wouldn't mstter, since it's just a label for a concept.

Trouble only arises when one uses the same word to mean more than one concept, if if that label means a different concept to each party. In which case we have an equivocation. Thus when you are calling someone a homophobe, you do so as a label for a specific concept, if that concept is explicitly to mean "someone that doesn't Advocste for same sex rights" then fair enough, but you have to ensure the person you are conversing with understands that.

Otherwise they will think you are labelling them with an irrational fear of homosexuals, which is the general colloquial use of a phobia, as well as it's still prevailant etymology. Those chemical terms, hydrophobic and lipophobic are indeed euphemisms for molecule that "love" or "hate" water, thus still retains close ties with it's colloquial roots.

When applied to animate things such as people however, then we almost without exception are talking about a psychological state of fear or hate. This when you label so one homophobic, or islamophonic, and do so without explicitly stating the concept you are referring to, then the obvious implication of fear and hate is going to be very high on the list of concepts that the other party is going to interpret by your use of that label, and rightly object to it if it doesn't acccurately describe them.
EndarkenedRationalist
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2/5/2015 8:00:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:59:35 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can create a new word for prejudice against homosexuals. Homophobia means fear of as originally intended.

Aright. Then I hope you never use the word gay to refer to anything but being happy.
Wylted
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2/5/2015 8:03:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 8:00:47 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 2/5/2015 6:59:35 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can create a new word for prejudice against homosexuals. Homophobia means fear of as originally intended.

Aright. Then I hope you never use the word gay to refer to anything but being happy.

I like calling homosexuals fruitcake. Can I do that. Plus context helps with these terms. Using the word gay is going to be radically different when talking of happiness and homosexuality. The word homophobia when using both definitions can get confusing. Seeing as how confusion arises from those 2 definitions, the newer less concise one should be dropped.
EndarkenedRationalist
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2/5/2015 8:06:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 8:03:23 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/5/2015 8:00:47 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 2/5/2015 6:59:35 AM, Wylted wrote:
You guys can create a new word for prejudice against homosexuals. Homophobia means fear of as originally intended.

Aright. Then I hope you never use the word gay to refer to anything but being happy.

I like calling homosexuals fruitcake. Can I do that. Plus context helps with these terms. Using the word gay is going to be radically different when talking of happiness and homosexuality. The word homophobia when using both definitions can get confusing. Seeing as how confusion arises from those 2 definitions, the newer less concise one should be dropped.

There's really no confusion, especially with context. "Fear or dislike of homosexuals" is not a complex definition. When someone says "I hate f@gs; burn in hell," it's obvious what people mean when they call him homophobic. The word fits anyway, since people almost always despise what they fear.