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A sincere question

bluesteel
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2/20/2015 5:23:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If someone on DDO said the word "f@g" to refer to gay people to you in a PM and legitimately meant it in a derogatory manner, would you still be friends with the person?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
donald.keller
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2/20/2015 5:25:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It'd depend on their history. I try not to judge someone for one incident. It'd definitely be a major strike against them.
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Zarroette
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2/20/2015 5:26:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:23:43 PM, bluesteel wrote:
If someone on DDO said the word "f@g" to refer to gay people to you in a PM and legitimately meant it in a derogatory manner, would you still be friends with the person?

No way! Big meanies like that need to be de-friended! Make sure to dob that person into the teacher, too!
bsh1
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2/20/2015 5:29:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:23:43 PM, bluesteel wrote:
If someone on DDO said the word "f@g" to refer to gay people to you in a PM and legitimately meant it in a derogatory manner, would you still be friends with the person?

I would be extremely offended. I wouldn't necessarily end my friendship with them, but I would expect genuine contrition from them later. However, saying it once even sans an apology wouldn't cause me to end the relationship--reevaluate it, perhaps, but not end it. If it became a pattern, though, (if they did it 3 or more times) then I would end the friendship.
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bsh1
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2/20/2015 5:29:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:25:01 PM, donald.keller wrote:
It'd depend on their history. I try not to judge someone for one incident. It'd definitely be a major strike against them.

I think that this is basically my opinion.
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bluesteel
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2/20/2015 5:31:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:26:19 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 2/20/2015 5:23:43 PM, bluesteel wrote:
If someone on DDO said the word "f@g" to refer to gay people to you in a PM and legitimately meant it in a derogatory manner, would you still be friends with the person?

No way! Big meanies like that need to be de-friended! Make sure to dob that person into the teacher, too!

Subtle...
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Zarroette
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2/20/2015 5:31:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:31:00 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/20/2015 5:26:19 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 2/20/2015 5:23:43 PM, bluesteel wrote:
If someone on DDO said the word "f@g" to refer to gay people to you in a PM and legitimately meant it in a derogatory manner, would you still be friends with the person?

No way! Big meanies like that need to be de-friended! Make sure to dob that person into the teacher, too!

Subtle...

Straight-forward and definitely not passive-aggressive...
Maikuru
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2/20/2015 5:33:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
That would probably be enough for me to end it. Life's too short to associate with people you don't respect.
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YamaVonKarma
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2/20/2015 5:46:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:23:43 PM, bluesteel wrote:
If someone on DDO said the word "f@g" to refer to gay people to you in a PM and legitimately meant it in a derogatory manner, would you still be friends with the person?

I'd call them a filthy mouth breathing pig and make a thread to publically shame them.
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Raisor
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2/20/2015 5:47:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Probably.

People are multidimensional, opinions change, its too hard to find people you are perfectly in agreement with.

Friends and acquaintances have said terribly misogynistic things, I disagree, we talk about it. It bothers me, but they have a better chance of changing their mind if you still interact with them than if you throw away a relationship by making a flaw in their worldview the totality of their identity.
donald.keller
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2/20/2015 5:52:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:47:49 PM, Raisor wrote:
Probably.

People are multidimensional, opinions change, its too hard to find people you are perfectly in agreement with.

Friends and acquaintances have said terribly misogynistic things, I disagree, we talk about it. It bothers me, but they have a better chance of changing their mind if you still interact with them than if you throw away a relationship by making a flaw in their worldview the totality of their identity.
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Vox_Veritas
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2/20/2015 6:07:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:23:43 PM, bluesteel wrote:
If someone on DDO said the word "f@g" to refer to gay people to you in a PM and legitimately meant it in a derogatory manner, would you still be friends with the person?

Yes. I disagree with downright homophobia (in contrast to merely the belief that homosexual activity is sinful), but I also disagree with the "witch hunts" conducted against people who hold on to bigoted beliefs. You don't start witch hunts against jerks, or people with short tempers. Bigotry is merely another character flaw, something which is not on par with being a rapist or a murderer.
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imabench
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2/20/2015 6:13:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:23:43 PM, bluesteel wrote:
If someone on DDO said the word "f@g" to refer to gay people to you in a PM and legitimately meant it in a derogatory manner, would you still be friends with the person?

Depends on their opinion of Frozen
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1harderthanyouthink
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2/20/2015 6:32:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Probably not, but I wouldn't block them from making it up.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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1harderthanyouthink
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2/20/2015 6:34:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Some of my friends IRL say "f@g" occasionally. I don't like it, but there's not much I can do about it.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bluesteel
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2/20/2015 6:35:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:47:49 PM, Raisor wrote:
Probably.

People are multidimensional, opinions change, its too hard to find people you are perfectly in agreement with.

Friends and acquaintances have said terribly misogynistic things, I disagree, we talk about it. It bothers me, but they have a better chance of changing their mind if you still interact with them than if you throw away a relationship by making a flaw in their worldview the totality of their identity.

What if they refused to discuss why using it is bad? And merely called you thin-skinned for objecting?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
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2/20/2015 6:37:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:07:09 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 2/20/2015 5:23:43 PM, bluesteel wrote:
If someone on DDO said the word "f@g" to refer to gay people to you in a PM and legitimately meant it in a derogatory manner, would you still be friends with the person?

Yes. I disagree with downright homophobia (in contrast to merely the belief that homosexual activity is sinful), but I also disagree with the "witch hunts" conducted against people who hold on to bigoted beliefs. You don't start witch hunts against jerks, or people with short tempers. Bigotry is merely another character flaw, something which is not on par with being a rapist or a murderer.

I'd be happy to witch hunt jerks, trolls, and vote bombers if it were allowed under site rules. Societal condemnation is really the only thing that continues to get racists, sexists, and bigots to reconsider their views.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
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2/20/2015 6:39:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:34:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Some of my friends IRL say "f@g" occasionally. I don't like it, but there's not much I can do about it.

I definitely don't like it either, but calling your friend that word in a joking manner is less mean-spirited and bigoted than actually using the word to refer to gay people, as if it were a synonym for "homosexual."
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
1harderthanyouthink
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2/20/2015 6:42:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:39:07 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:34:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Some of my friends IRL say "f@g" occasionally. I don't like it, but there's not much I can do about it.

I definitely don't like it either, but calling your friend that word in a joking manner is less mean-spirited and bigoted than actually using the word to refer to gay people, as if it were a synonym for "homosexual."

They use it as an insult, and they have used it to refer to gay people, and I've never heard them toss it around as a joke, but I give them a chance because they're stupid 13 year olds from a pretty shitty town in terms of accepting anything that's not going along with conservative Catholic belief.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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YYW
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2/20/2015 6:47:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:23:43 PM, bluesteel wrote:
If someone on DDO said the word "f@g" to refer to gay people to you in a PM and legitimately meant it in a derogatory manner, would you still be friends with the person?

No.
Tsar of DDO
bluesteel
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2/20/2015 6:49:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:42:44 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:39:07 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:34:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Some of my friends IRL say "f@g" occasionally. I don't like it, but there's not much I can do about it.

I definitely don't like it either, but calling your friend that word in a joking manner is less mean-spirited and bigoted than actually using the word to refer to gay people, as if it were a synonym for "homosexual."

They use it as an insult, and they have used it to refer to gay people, and I've never heard them toss it around as a joke, but I give them a chance because they're stupid 13 year olds from a pretty shitty town in terms of accepting anything that's not going along with conservative Catholic belief.

Yeah, I would never be friends with those people.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
1harderthanyouthink
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2/20/2015 6:51:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:49:49 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:42:44 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:39:07 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:34:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Some of my friends IRL say "f@g" occasionally. I don't like it, but there's not much I can do about it.

I definitely don't like it either, but calling your friend that word in a joking manner is less mean-spirited and bigoted than actually using the word to refer to gay people, as if it were a synonym for "homosexual."

They use it as an insult, and they have used it to refer to gay people, and I've never heard them toss it around as a joke, but I give them a chance because they're stupid 13 year olds from a pretty shitty town in terms of accepting anything that's not going along with conservative Catholic belief.

Yeah, I would never be friends with those people.

They'll grow up.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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2/20/2015 6:52:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:51:49 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:49:49 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:42:44 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:39:07 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:34:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Some of my friends IRL say "f@g" occasionally. I don't like it, but there's not much I can do about it.

I definitely don't like it either, but calling your friend that word in a joking manner is less mean-spirited and bigoted than actually using the word to refer to gay people, as if it were a synonym for "homosexual."

They use it as an insult, and they have used it to refer to gay people, and I've never heard them toss it around as a joke, but I give them a chance because they're stupid 13 year olds from a pretty shitty town in terms of accepting anything that's not going along with conservative Catholic belief.

Yeah, I would never be friends with those people.

They'll grow up.

Into bigots.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,070
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2/20/2015 6:52:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hate speech happens all the time; today, on yahoo! News there was an article on a pastor who plans on using the Oculus Rift to help church members who are unable to attend to "be there" for worship services. The comments were full of anti-Christian sentiment. As much as I would like to hunt down and castrate the people who made those remarks with a dirty knife, they technically have every right to say that.
Likewise, Christians have said nasty stuff about atheists and Muslims and others.

If we disapprove of one kind of hate speech, we must disapprove of them all. If not, we must tolerate all such remarks which do not turn into violent threats.
It seems to be less tolerable to make hateful remarks about some groups than others; this should not be the case. All hate speech should be condemned.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Vox_Veritas
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2/20/2015 6:53:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:52:41 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Hate speech happens all the time; today, on yahoo! News there was an article on a pastor who plans on using the Oculus Rift to help church members who are unable to attend to "be there" for worship services. The comments were full of anti-Christian sentiment. As much as I would like to hunt down and castrate the people who made those remarks with a dirty knife, they technically have every right to say that.
Likewise, Christians have said nasty stuff about atheists and Muslims and others.

If we disapprove of one kind of hate speech, we must disapprove of them all. If not, we must tolerate all such remarks which do not turn into violent threats.
It seems to be less tolerable to make hateful remarks about some groups than others; this should not be the case. All hate speech should be condemned.

Dang; I contradicted what I just said.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
YYW
Posts: 36,263
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2/20/2015 6:53:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The basic reason is this:

If you can PM me, you can see my profile.... and insofar as you can see my profile, you can see I'm gay. So, when Cassie did exactly that the other day... I blocked her and I probably won't speak to her again.

I don't care about her reasons; I'm indifferent to excuses. That's a line that I will forgive once; and she'd crossed it before. So, I'm just done...
Tsar of DDO
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,100
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2/20/2015 6:55:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:52:38 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:51:49 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:49:49 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:42:44 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:39:07 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:34:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Some of my friends IRL say "f@g" occasionally. I don't like it, but there's not much I can do about it.

I definitely don't like it either, but calling your friend that word in a joking manner is less mean-spirited and bigoted than actually using the word to refer to gay people, as if it were a synonym for "homosexual."

They use it as an insult, and they have used it to refer to gay people, and I've never heard them toss it around as a joke, but I give them a chance because they're stupid 13 year olds from a pretty shitty town in terms of accepting anything that's not going along with conservative Catholic belief.

Yeah, I would never be friends with those people.

They'll grow up.

Into bigots.

Some of their parents and grandparents are a$sholes, and they know it: so I'm inclined to think that their behavior won't continue into adulthood.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
intellectuallyprimitive
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2/20/2015 6:58:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:23:43 PM, bluesteel wrote:
If someone on DDO said the word "f@g" to refer to gay people to you in a PM and legitimately meant it in a derogatory manner, would you still be friends with the person?

I don't understand why words are found to be disconcerting. A friend is a friend, to me anyways, because I enjoy their character and as a result enjoy time with them, which reciprocates. I have friends who use the words; f*g, n*gger, c*nt, and various other terms that may be construed as derogatory. This does not bother me. Words have never upset me and never will. The context supersedes the words employed.

Friendship is a valuable concept and if the person who used the word f*g is not a person who you value, then it should be due to unfavorable or dissimilar qualities that you don't like. I'm not justifying discrimination towards anybody, but I would not discontinue a friendship because my friend doesn't like homosexuals or uses derogatory words. I would discontinue my friendship if they exploited me for favors, networking to others, or treated me poorly.
bluesteel
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2/20/2015 6:58:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:55:57 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:52:38 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:51:49 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:49:49 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:42:44 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:39:07 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:34:43 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Some of my friends IRL say "f@g" occasionally. I don't like it, but there's not much I can do about it.

I definitely don't like it either, but calling your friend that word in a joking manner is less mean-spirited and bigoted than actually using the word to refer to gay people, as if it were a synonym for "homosexual."

They use it as an insult, and they have used it to refer to gay people, and I've never heard them toss it around as a joke, but I give them a chance because they're stupid 13 year olds from a pretty shitty town in terms of accepting anything that's not going along with conservative Catholic belief.

Yeah, I would never be friends with those people.

They'll grow up.

Into bigots.

Some of their parents and grandparents are a$sholes, and they know it: so I'm inclined to think that their behavior won't continue into adulthood.

This is what happens when an optimist speaks to a cynic...
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
intellectuallyprimitive
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2/20/2015 7:01:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Addendum:

It also depends on what you deem to be a friend. What is your understanding of what a friend is? You may dislike certain attributes of a friend, which is important, but the attributes that you do like are also equally important, if not more. There are positive and negative traits that we all may suggest we possess, but why end a friendship or dislike someone solely because of the negative?