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Idea: Longer time to argue

Ragnar
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2/22/2015 1:40:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hoping to get feedback on this idea...

I believe we should have the option to have longer times to argue, not to say limitless, but options along the lines of five-days, a week, and two weeks? While I would never use it, perhaps even a maximum of a month?

Of course with any idea there are benefits and harms, plus cost to implement.
The cost to implement would be low, as no coding would need to be made, merely a line or two copy/pasted and then a number inside it changed (yes updates are rare, but when one eventually comes this would be an easy addition).

The benefits of longer debate windows, would include when a debater has a tight schedule, they could still fit debates into it, such as on weekends. That one alone, I believe would lead to an increased number of debates. Plus (in theory) less forfeits.

There would of course be the downside of getting stuck in one of these with a forfeiter, which is already annoying at only three days. I believe this problem is greatly outweighed by the previously listed benefits.

Can anyone else think of anything to add to this suggestion? Any more merits or problems with it? General thoughts?

---

A related idea would be removing some of the short time to argue options, such as 5 and 10 minutes. I understand the idea of quickfire debates, but there are occasionally network problems which last longer thereby causing forfeits.
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YYW
Posts: 36,286
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2/22/2015 2:35:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 1:40:45 PM, Ragnar wrote:
Hoping to get feedback on this idea...

I believe we should have the option to have longer times to argue, not to say limitless, but options along the lines of five-days, a week, and two weeks? While I would never use it, perhaps even a maximum of a month?

Of course with any idea there are benefits and harms, plus cost to implement.
The cost to implement would be low, as no coding would need to be made, merely a line or two copy/pasted and then a number inside it changed (yes updates are rare, but when one eventually comes this would be an easy addition).

The benefits of longer debate windows, would include when a debater has a tight schedule, they could still fit debates into it, such as on weekends. That one alone, I believe would lead to an increased number of debates. Plus (in theory) less forfeits.

There would of course be the downside of getting stuck in one of these with a forfeiter, which is already annoying at only three days. I believe this problem is greatly outweighed by the previously listed benefits.

Can anyone else think of anything to add to this suggestion? Any more merits or problems with it? General thoughts?

---

A related idea would be removing some of the short time to argue options, such as 5 and 10 minutes. I understand the idea of quickfire debates, but there are occasionally network problems which last longer thereby causing forfeits.

I would debate more often if that were the case. This is an excellent proposal.
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bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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2/22/2015 3:18:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 2:35:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/22/2015 1:40:45 PM, Ragnar wrote:
Hoping to get feedback on this idea...

I believe we should have the option to have longer times to argue, not to say limitless, but options along the lines of five-days, a week, and two weeks? While I would never use it, perhaps even a maximum of a month?

Of course with any idea there are benefits and harms, plus cost to implement.
The cost to implement would be low, as no coding would need to be made, merely a line or two copy/pasted and then a number inside it changed (yes updates are rare, but when one eventually comes this would be an easy addition).

The benefits of longer debate windows, would include when a debater has a tight schedule, they could still fit debates into it, such as on weekends. That one alone, I believe would lead to an increased number of debates. Plus (in theory) less forfeits.

There would of course be the downside of getting stuck in one of these with a forfeiter, which is already annoying at only three days. I believe this problem is greatly outweighed by the previously listed benefits.

Can anyone else think of anything to add to this suggestion? Any more merits or problems with it? General thoughts?

---

A related idea would be removing some of the short time to argue options, such as 5 and 10 minutes. I understand the idea of quickfire debates, but there are occasionally network problems which last longer thereby causing forfeits.

I would debate more often if that were the case. This is an excellent proposal.

lol, but can you please clarify for Ragnar what you believe the longest period should be? 7 days I'm assuming, which ensures you have a weekend to work on it.

I would never ever want anything longer than that (7 days) on the site. I'm gonna forget about a debate entirely if it takes my opponent a month to respond. And an opponent who still has 3 rounds to forfeit: I have to wait 3 months for the debate to end? That's absurd.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
YYW
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2/22/2015 3:20:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 3:18:38 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/22/2015 2:35:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/22/2015 1:40:45 PM, Ragnar wrote:
Hoping to get feedback on this idea...

I believe we should have the option to have longer times to argue, not to say limitless, but options along the lines of five-days, a week, and two weeks? While I would never use it, perhaps even a maximum of a month?

Of course with any idea there are benefits and harms, plus cost to implement.
The cost to implement would be low, as no coding would need to be made, merely a line or two copy/pasted and then a number inside it changed (yes updates are rare, but when one eventually comes this would be an easy addition).

The benefits of longer debate windows, would include when a debater has a tight schedule, they could still fit debates into it, such as on weekends. That one alone, I believe would lead to an increased number of debates. Plus (in theory) less forfeits.

There would of course be the downside of getting stuck in one of these with a forfeiter, which is already annoying at only three days. I believe this problem is greatly outweighed by the previously listed benefits.

Can anyone else think of anything to add to this suggestion? Any more merits or problems with it? General thoughts?

---

A related idea would be removing some of the short time to argue options, such as 5 and 10 minutes. I understand the idea of quickfire debates, but there are occasionally network problems which last longer thereby causing forfeits.

I would debate more often if that were the case. This is an excellent proposal.

lol, but can you please clarify for Ragnar what you believe the longest period should be? 7 days I'm assuming, which ensures you have a weekend to work on it.

I don't know... I think a month would probably be the longest reasonable time, but I think that it would be best to let voters decide that for themselves. While I probably wouldn't want a month to argue a single round, I can see how some people might... and that's probably where I'd draw the line. But, I wouldn't accept a debate that gave longer than seven days to argue a round. That's just me, though.

I would never ever want anything longer than that (7 days) on the site. I'm gonna forget about a debate entirely if it takes my opponent a month to respond. And an opponent who still has 3 rounds to forfeit: I have to wait 3 months for the debate to end? That's absurd.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/22/2015 3:25:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think 7 days is a reasonable amount of time.

Depending on topic, level of expertise of arguments/topic, and character count, maybe two weeks. A month seems too long and unnecessary.
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Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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2/22/2015 3:27:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The short response window is one of the reasons I don't debate regularly. I would welcome a longer limit. Online chess allows for longer response times than we do here, which is a little silly.
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bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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2/22/2015 3:29:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 3:27:50 PM, Maikuru wrote:
The short response window is one of the reasons I don't debate regularly. I would welcome a longer limit. Online chess allows for longer response times than we do here, which is a little silly.

lol, good point
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/22/2015 4:28:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I like the short response time because it tests different skills. There's a reason some people research their debate topic before starting the debate: you can't research everything you want within 3 days. And it is fair. It is like the difference between an exam and a take-home assignment. It tests different part of what you learned. You have to figure out how to answer the rounds in the limited time-frame that you have.

I understand you want this as an option not a requirement. But I think humans as natural procrastinators will tend towards longer and longer time-frames if they are offered.

It is somewhat like increasing the character limit from 8,000 to 10,000 characters. I much preferred the previous limit. Now, nearly everyone defaults towards to 10,000 limit.

I see merit to the idea of having a weekend to post. This is easily arranged in the current scheme though if your opponent doesn't also need a weekend by telling them to delay posting their rounds. But that won't always work so I see the merit. Something about it tells me I'd dislike the norm to go to 5-6 days instead of 3. Just the people who need it should used it.

Probably the best idea is to make 3 days the default and offer other options as well.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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2/22/2015 4:32:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 4:28:05 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I like the short response time because it tests different skills. There's a reason some people research their debate topic before starting the debate: you can't research everything you want within 3 days. And it is fair. It is like the difference between an exam and a take-home assignment. It tests different part of what you learned. You have to figure out how to answer the rounds in the limited time-frame that you have.

I understand you want this as an option not a requirement. But I think humans as natural procrastinators will tend towards longer and longer time-frames if they are offered.

It is somewhat like increasing the character limit from 8,000 to 10,000 characters. I much preferred the previous limit. Now, nearly everyone defaults towards to 10,000 limit.

I see merit to the idea of having a weekend to post. This is easily arranged in the current scheme though if your opponent doesn't also need a weekend by telling them to delay posting their rounds. But that won't always work so I see the merit. Something about it tells me I'd dislike the norm to go to 5-6 days instead of 3. Just the people who need it should used it.

Probably the best idea is to make 3 days the default and offer other options as well.

I was thinking this. But 8,000 characters is the default and most people set it to 10k. Granted I don't have a problem with 10k, but I am not sure if that's a good thing in balance and I only don't think its bad because I am just used to 10k rounds.

Similarly, for time. Even if we set the time limit default to 3 days, and had 1 option to extend it to a week oer round, then are people going to default to that timeframe? I would rather not do 7 day rounds myself most of the time, but I would like to see the accommodation made for those who prefer longer waiting times.
Raisor
Posts: 4,460
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2/22/2015 5:29:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The biggest thing for me would be a guaranteed weekend to write a response. I often time when I post my argument to maximize the odds that I'll have at least one weekend day to write a response.
Illegalcombatant
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2/22/2015 5:37:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yes I would like to see a 5 day and 7 day option.
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Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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2/24/2015 6:48:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 3:25:09 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I think 7 days is a reasonable amount of time.

Depending on topic, level of expertise of arguments/topic, and character count, maybe two weeks. A month seems too long and unnecessary.

I mainly listed a month, because I figured someone would point out that idea and wanted to get any discussion of it sooner rather than later.
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dtaylor971
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2/25/2015 3:10:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 2:35:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/22/2015 1:40:45 PM, Ragnar wrote:
Hoping to get feedback on this idea...

I believe we should have the option to have longer times to argue, not to say limitless, but options along the lines of five-days, a week, and two weeks? While I would never use it, perhaps even a maximum of a month?

Of course with any idea there are benefits and harms, plus cost to implement.
The cost to implement would be low, as no coding would need to be made, merely a line or two copy/pasted and then a number inside it changed (yes updates are rare, but when one eventually comes this would be an easy addition).

The benefits of longer debate windows, would include when a debater has a tight schedule, they could still fit debates into it, such as on weekends. That one alone, I believe would lead to an increased number of debates. Plus (in theory) less forfeits.

There would of course be the downside of getting stuck in one of these with a forfeiter, which is already annoying at only three days. I believe this problem is greatly outweighed by the previously listed benefits.

Can anyone else think of anything to add to this suggestion? Any more merits or problems with it? General thoughts?

---

A related idea would be removing some of the short time to argue options, such as 5 and 10 minutes. I understand the idea of quickfire debates, but there are occasionally network problems which last longer thereby causing forfeits.

I would debate more often if that were the case. This is an excellent proposal.

I concur.
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16kadams
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2/25/2015 7:46:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I like the three days but why not. I usually can post my case in an hour if I need to, but I usually wait a day or two before writing it XD
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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/27/2015 1:01:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think this should happen. All my debates will be happening on edeb8 for a while because I can have up to a month to respond.

I'm currently arguing a topic over there I'd rather debate here. That Nuclear weapons don't exist.