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Ban us, but please don't permaban

PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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1/5/2009 7:30:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
With the debatedotcom.com controversy wrapped up, I wish to be happy, but I can't.

One relatively new regular, crackofdawn, had his account revoked -- collateral damage some would call it -- and I can't help but feel a little bit responsible for his permaban.

I was torn though: Phil had every right to take action against crackofdawn. He insulted Phil despite clear warning that doing so would get him a ban. But even still, I think that is still too harsh a punishment.

So after all this contemplation, I finally came up with an answer -- a compromise of sorts.

Phil should have every right to ban us, but he should not permaban us on the spot. Some instances do call for a permaban (as in Josh's case), but first time offenses should result in 1-2 week bans, and nothing more.

I have laid my proposal. Let's see how the community responds.
Television Rot: http://tvrot.com...
s0m31john
Posts: 1,879
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1/5/2009 7:36:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I agree.

In most of the forums I frequent a temporary ban is referred to as a suspension.

A permanent ban is just called a ban.
PoeJoe
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1/5/2009 7:48:58 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 1/5/2009 7:36:19 PM, s0m31john wrote:
I agree.

In most of the forums I frequent a temporary ban is referred to as a suspension.

A permanent ban is just called a ban.

I know that both Newgrounds and Wikipedia use the terms "ban" and "permaban" to mean separate things. If I may ask, where do you get your terminology from?
Television Rot: http://tvrot.com...
s0m31john
Posts: 1,879
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1/5/2009 7:55:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 1/5/2009 7:48:58 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 1/5/2009 7:36:19 PM, s0m31john wrote:
I agree.

In most of the forums I frequent a temporary ban is referred to as a suspension.

A permanent ban is just called a ban.

I know that both Newgrounds and Wikipedia use the terms "ban" and "permaban" to mean separate things. If I may ask, where do you get your terminology from?

G4TV Off-Topic
PoeJoe
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1/5/2009 7:58:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
oh dang. triple post. D;

I meant to quote two lines:

1) You are the troller / One week ban / I know your other screen name man
2) You are the liar / Permanent ban / I know your other screen name man
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burningpuppies101
Posts: 1,268
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1/5/2009 8:12:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I like the idea. I'm all for it. It is kinda extreme to permaban someone for doing something not that serious.

However, I think that we should look to the other side of the debate.
1. Those permabanned (for instance crackofdawn or josh) simply found other accounts to go to. What we should take from this is that permabnning someone isn't that bad of a thing to do. We might lose our win ratio, but we know who they are once they come back.

Even then, I'm still with poejoe on this one. I like it.

But we can't demand that Phil do it, only ask that he consider it.
Omnes te moriturum amant 

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askbob
Posts: 7,254
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1/5/2009 8:47:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I agree, although it doesn't really matter for people who are computer literate, but hey if someone is actually trolling in Josh's case, or in the case of Winner, I'm in favor of permabans.

But in crackofdawns case, seriously. The whole "I'm gonna sue you" thing is just a ridiculous infringement on the copyright law. Things are getting way out of hand with people threatening lawsuits nowadays to where it gets to the point that freedom of speech is getting completely crushed. If PoeJoe was using his domain to make money, then fine, I completely agree with what Phil did. If PoeJoe was using it as a way to misdirect people so he could get ad revenue or was making his site a debate site to take traffic away from here, then again Phil would have been perfectly justified.

However PoeJoe was using it as simply a fan site to this one. If anything PoeJoe bettered this site by what he did.

If Phil truely wants no one to have the domain names, then I suggest he buy them so no one can have them. But in terms of threatening to sue anyone who gets them is ridiculous.

Fair Use... Google it.

Anyway if Phil wants to harass debaters who only have the best intentions then fine, but expecting not to be made fun of is just unheard of.

If you do jerkish things without any explanation, apology, reprimands, then expect to be made fun of by the general public.

Phil could have totally approached this in a different way if it really upset him that the debate site was being used. He could have just as easily said this:

"PoeJoe, I really wish you wouldn't use the domain name that you're using, if you could stop using it and let me buy it from you I'd be grateful, I'm willing to pay 100 bucks for you to stop using it."

1. It would have cost Phil hardly anything
2. It would have made PoeJoe wet himself because he was so happy he got 100 bucks
3. Phil would have probably won the respect of a lot of people on this site.

But no, we just have to play hardball with kids. Good one.

But back to the subject:

Should we do temporary bans? I think for good reasons (not crackofdawn's case). We should use them as a warning to real trolls such as "WINNER" or "Josh" etc. Not to people who are making lighthearted jokes against the moderator.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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1/5/2009 8:53:38 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Does Phil ever post anything? Or is he this kind of quasi-mystical behind-the-scenes entity that nobody really thinks exists like MySpace's Tom??
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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1/5/2009 9:05:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Woah, woah, woah. This isn't a Phil-bashing thread.

This is a discussion on whether or not Phil should start issuing temporary bans instead.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/6/2009 12:24:50 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Woah, woah, woah. This isn't a Phil-bashing thread.


Lol. You're still hoping you can be mod someday, huh?

I don't think anyone is trying to offend Phil.

I think people are trying to speak their mind... something that seems appropriate for a debate website, no? Plus, if Phil has any objections, he can always challenge Askbob to a DEBATE... hmm, now there's an idea ("Take it online!")
President of DDO
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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1/6/2009 8:09:19 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 1/5/2009 9:05:52 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
Woah, woah, woah. This isn't a Phil-bashing thread.

This is a discussion on whether or not Phil should start issuing temporary bans instead.

Time out there bronco - I was just wondering if he ever replied to anything at all... Usually the mods on a site will say SOMETHING about what they're doing and when they do it...
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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1/6/2009 10:23:52 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 1/6/2009 8:09:19 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 1/5/2009 9:05:52 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
Woah, woah, woah. This isn't a Phil-bashing thread.

This is a discussion on whether or not Phil should start issuing temporary bans instead.

Time out there bronco - I was just wondering if he ever replied to anything at all... Usually the mods on a site will say SOMETHING about what they're doing and when they do it...

They used to be more active (usually Nate, sometimes Phil). They even participated in a few debates. Nate left the website in October or November and the mod presence has decreased to almost non existent. Sometimes Phil randomly appears (i.e. to quickly grant our call for a 'last' button).
So to answer your question: there is a Phil, he is not just a mythical creature like Tom on Myspace. He just has a laissez faire system of governance (except for the occasional website criticism intolerance).
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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1/8/2009 3:08:43 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Lol nate didn't leave, he was fired.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
crackofdawn_Jr
Posts: 1,350
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1/8/2009 3:14:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
PoeJoe it wasn't your fault. I made some remarks (although meant to be joking and harmless) that were offending and I was rightly banned. I do agree with the "permaban" idea and that first time offenders should only get a temporary ban. I had done so much (relative to me) and now it's gone and my new account has so little. Because my words could easily be taken the wrong way I suppose Phil had the right to ban me but the permaban is a little harsh. I accept what he did though and I've moved on.

Another bad thing about my new account is I can't vote now. :(
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Lwerd
Posts: 145
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11/7/2009 11:06:15 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Interesting title, PoeJoe, I agree :D

If crack's account could be reinstated after insulting the powers that be, then I should be fine after ruffling the feathers of lil ol' mongeese.
Lwerd
Posts: 145
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11/8/2009 10:21:04 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/8/2009 10:09:11 AM, wjmelements wrote:
His account wasn't reinstated. He simply made a new one.

So what's your point? That I should simply make a new one? Because nearly 2 years and 175+ debates deserves to be erased for good because I called someone a d1ck? Look around. Far worse is said around here constantly. If your point is that I deserve to be permabanned as a punishment for that ridiculous and juvenile reason, then you're immature. If that's not your point, then I really don't see the need for your clarification. Thank you.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/8/2009 11:23:37 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/8/2009 11:08:27 AM, mongeese wrote:
Crack had a lot of debates, as well. Getting special privilidges for more debate wins sounds kind of elitist.

You've lost all credibility. Now you're making it worse.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Lwerd
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11/8/2009 11:51:02 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/8/2009 11:08:27 AM, mongeese wrote:
Crack had a lot of debates, as well. Getting special privilidges for more debate wins sounds kind of elitist.

Nobody said anything about my debate wins. I don't care about my win ratio; you can vote bomb me all you want (Oh noes! Did I just slander you?!). I'm upset because all of the work I put into establishing my account for nearly 2 years is gone. Crack had nowhere near the amount of debates or contribution that I had and certainly not the same amount of time. That's obvious, so don't bother trying to compare the two. Not to mention that Crack insulted the Powers that Be (Phil) whereas I only called you a d1ck. Actually, I didn't - I said you were acting like one. If you look around, you'll see that Nags taunts Rezz constantly, people call each other ugly on here all the time, there were threads making fun of bexxx for "cutting herself," people say obscene things about my girlfriend/lifestyle, PoeJoe just called me a "complete bitch" in the other thread, etc. The difference is that most people here have a backbone and don't report such nonsense. I can't believe that you're still arguing about this. You really have no shame, and as such, you're pathetic. You can't see why what you did was wrong and unnecessary and that's a real shame.
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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11/8/2009 12:27:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/8/2009 11:51:02 AM, Lwerd wrote:
At 11/8/2009 11:08:27 AM, mongeese wrote:
Crack had a lot of debates, as well. Getting special privilidges for more debate wins sounds kind of elitist.

Nobody said anything about my debate wins. I don't care about my win ratio; you can vote bomb me all you want (Oh noes! Did I just slander you?!). I'm upset because all of the work I put into establishing my account for nearly 2 years is gone. Crack had nowhere near the amount of debates or contribution that I had and certainly not the same amount of time. That's obvious, so don't bother trying to compare the two. Not to mention that Crack insulted the Powers that Be (Phil) whereas I only called you a d1ck. Actually, I didn't - I said you were acting like one. If you look around, you'll see that Nags taunts Rezz constantly, people call each other ugly on here all the time, there were threads making fun of bexxx for "cutting herself," people say obscene things about my girlfriend/lifestyle, PoeJoe just called me a "complete bitch" in the other thread, etc. The difference is that most people here have a backbone and don't report such nonsense. I can't believe that you're still arguing about this. You really have no shame, and as such, you're pathetic. You can't see why what you did was wrong and unnecessary and that's a real shame.

So because people do things that are wrong a lot, that makes it right?
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Lwerd
Posts: 145
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11/8/2009 12:32:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/8/2009 12:27:51 PM, mongoose wrote:

So because people do things that are wrong a lot, that makes it right?

If you look back on all of my posts, I never said that. I said the OPPOSITE. For instance, I said this in the Honesty Box thread:

The problem is that everyone here comes off as rude or offensive at some point. People bash each other left and right. I'm not saying that it's right, but this is an online community - not Boy/Girl Scouts. I understand that you think some of what I say can be considered disrespectful, but let's be fair about this. Do you think it's respectful that people on here often make really crude and sexist comments? Or judge me and my lifestyle on a daily basis? I go along and joke about it because I'm not easily offended. However if I were, I could easily have had most people on this site banned considering some of the comments and remarks I've sustained. Do you think it's respectful that people gawk over my girlfriend all the time? Again, I go along with it because I know most people here aren't jerk offs and don't mean any ill will. However the reality is that if I were a GUY, no guy here would have the audacity to make the kind of lewd comments that I have to endure. It is completely unfair and hypocritical to call me out on this and not hold every single other person to the same exact standard. In real life, some people speak their mind and some don't. I'm the kind of person that does. If you can't handle it, remove yourself from the situation. Again, the only thing I did wrong was violate the TOS because I used 2 distorted profanities (since you can't even type out the actual word). I apologize for cursing. I do use profanities in my vocabulary. It was wrong of me not to censor them on Phil's site given the rules, but when talking about respecting one another, you people are really ridiculous and entirely hypocritical in judging me without first looking in the mirror, metaphorically speaking.
mongoose
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11/8/2009 12:34:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
So because people do these things all the time, that makes it right? Is that it?
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/8/2009 12:35:56 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/8/2009 12:34:12 PM, mongoose wrote:
So because people do these things all the time, that makes it right? Is that it?

I would consider it unfair treatment.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat