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Are you all nothing but sophists?

jowett
Posts: 32
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3/23/2015 12:34:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm new to DDO, so I look at the leaderboard to try to find someone who's past debates I can learn from. This guy Mikal is at the top. So I go to the last ACTUAL debate I can find of his (not counting rap battles). He's debating this guy, a noob, about whether "God is dead," 5 rounds, and spends all his time arguing that in order for God to be technically dead, he'd have to first be alive and all that bs, AND WINS.

What I want to know is if everybody else on this site is a (you tell me) like him who just wants to alienate noobs on their way to jacking up their leaderboard ranking, or are there people here who are actually trying to sharpen their reasoning faculties so that they can make better decisions in life and become better human beings (and if so who they are so that I can learn from them).

Thank you.
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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3/23/2015 12:49:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 12:34:03 AM, jowett wrote:
I'm new to DDO, so I look at the leaderboard to try to find someone who's past debates I can learn from. This guy Mikal is at the top. So I go to the last ACTUAL debate I can find of his (not counting rap battles). He's debating this guy, a noob, about whether "God is dead," 5 rounds, and spends all his time arguing that in order for God to be technically dead, he'd have to first be alive and all that bs, AND WINS.

What I want to know is if everybody else on this site is a (you tell me) like him who just wants to alienate noobs on their way to jacking up their leaderboard ranking, or are there people here who are actually trying to sharpen their reasoning faculties so that they can make better decisions in life and become better human beings (and if so who they are so that I can learn from them).

Thank you.

Debate is a sport, the goal is to win. That requires the use of a proper resolution. If someone is to lazy to type out what they want to debate they deserve to lose. debate is framed around the topic or resolution. It's really simple not to get sniped. Take your time and watch what you post as the topic otherwise take the loss with a smile and move on.

If his goal is discussion th forums are open for a reason, debates help you learn but the goal of it is to debate a resolution And win which I did.

I have quite a few good debates as well but it tends to be with people that have enough comprehensive ability to formulate a resolution properly.
Jonbonbon
Posts: 2,763
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3/23/2015 12:49:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Mikal is actually a smart guy, but he's at the top because he spends his time resolution/noob sniping. He did that for months until he made it to the top. But yeah if you want real debates try: Bluesteel, white flame, bsh1, and bornofgod

By the way, kidding about that last one, but he'll give you a good laugh.
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9

http://www.debate.org...
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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3/23/2015 12:51:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
There's nothing necessarily wrong with sophistry. Words mean things.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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3/23/2015 12:51:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
There's nothing necessarily wrong with sophistry. Words mean things.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Jonbonbon
Posts: 2,763
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3/23/2015 12:51:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 12:49:43 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:34:03 AM, jowett wrote:
I'm new to DDO, so I look at the leaderboard to try to find someone who's past debates I can learn from. This guy Mikal is at the top. So I go to the last ACTUAL debate I can find of his (not counting rap battles). He's debating this guy, a noob, about whether "God is dead," 5 rounds, and spends all his time arguing that in order for God to be technically dead, he'd have to first be alive and all that bs, AND WINS.

What I want to know is if everybody else on this site is a (you tell me) like him who just wants to alienate noobs on their way to jacking up their leaderboard ranking, or are there people here who are actually trying to sharpen their reasoning faculties so that they can make better decisions in life and become better human beings (and if so who they are so that I can learn from them).

Thank you.

Debate is a sport, the goal is to win. That requires the use of a proper resolution. If someone is to lazy to type out what they want to debate they deserve to lose. debate is framed around the topic or resolution. It's really simple not to get sniped. Take your time and watch what you post as the topic otherwise take the loss with a smile and move on.

I love this paragraph so much, I think I just had a mindgasm.

If his goal is discussion th forums are open for a reason, debates help you learn but the goal of it is to debate a resolution And win which I did.

I have quite a few good debates as well but it tends to be with people that have enough comprehensive ability to formulate a resolution properly.
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9

http://www.debate.org...
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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3/23/2015 12:51:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Sorry for the double-post--it really shouldn't have let me do that...
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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3/23/2015 12:55:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Semantical" debater here.

I think your criticisms about his tactics are misplaced in a few different places. But before I even begin, yes there are plenty of actually academically stimulating debates that occur on this site. The leaderboard is by no means an accurate way of determining who the best debaters on the site are, so there was your first mistake, but if you actually want to look for good debates and stuff I'll link you to just a small sample of some of the better debates on the website:

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

But with that out of the way, let's actually discuss your problems with the tactics used.

There's multiple different ways that you can look at this, all of which being valid in their own rights and all of which justifying the tactics used.

1. You could say that the job of more experienced debaters (and while Mikal is by no rights the "best debater" on the site, despite what the leaderboards say, he's still fairly experienced) to not take it easy on newer debaters and to exploit any tactic against them to teach them by trial of fire to make stronger arguments and construct more solid resolutions. The only way to actually teach an opponent to be better is to expose all of the flaws of their arguments and resolutions so that they can see where they are weak and fix the errors.

2. You could also say that the point of a debate like that is simply to win the debate. Especially in IRL competitive debate, tactics that a lot of people would consider to be "off-topic" and "unfair" and "semantical" are entirely fair game simply because they're still well-constructed arguments that are warranted and have evidence behind them and not answering them is considered dropping and conceding them. Honest academic discussion where there is no intention to simply "win" and the only discussion going on is simply truth value, imo and I'm very willing to debate this or discuss this, is really only available in the forums. If you're making a debate, sure you can get someone who's willing to just honestly discuss the topic with you, but you're more likely to just get someone who wants to win the debate.

So tl;dr - Yes there's better debates if you actually want to learn something, but there really isn't anything wrong with what occurred there.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
jowett
Posts: 32
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3/23/2015 12:58:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 12:49:43 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:34:03 AM, jowett wrote:
I'm new to DDO, so I look at the leaderboard to try to find someone who's past debates I can learn from. This guy Mikal is at the top. So I go to the last ACTUAL debate I can find of his (not counting rap battles). He's debating this guy, a noob, about whether "God is dead," 5 rounds, and spends all his time arguing that in order for God to be technically dead, he'd have to first be alive and all that bs, AND WINS.

What I want to know is if everybody else on this site is a (you tell me) like him who just wants to alienate noobs on their way to jacking up their leaderboard ranking, or are there people here who are actually trying to sharpen their reasoning faculties so that they can make better decisions in life and become better human beings (and if so who they are so that I can learn from them).

Thank you.

Debate is a sport, the goal is to win. That requires the use of a proper resolution. If someone is to lazy to type out what they want to debate they deserve to lose. debate is framed around the topic or resolution. It's really simple not to get sniped. Take your time and watch what you post as the topic otherwise take the loss with a smile and move on.


If his goal is discussion th forums are open for a reason, debates help you learn but the goal of it is to debate a resolution And win which I did.

I have quite a few good debates as well but it tends to be with people that have enough comprehensive ability to formulate a resolution properly.

You're saying his debate resolution was unclear? Is there anybody who's familiar with the quote "God is dead" who would mistake his meaning? I joined this site not so I can play some game with made up rules where people exert all their energy on trying to misunderstand one another. I'm here to listen to what people have to say, to have my mind changed, to hopefully change others minds, and to improve my ability to communicate my ideas in a logical way. NOT to be a sophist (which you seem to be admitting that you are).
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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3/23/2015 1:04:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 12:58:28 AM, jowett wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:49:43 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:34:03 AM, jowett wrote:
I'm new to DDO, so I look at the leaderboard to try to find someone who's past debates I can learn from. This guy Mikal is at the top. So I go to the last ACTUAL debate I can find of his (not counting rap battles). He's debating this guy, a noob, about whether "God is dead," 5 rounds, and spends all his time arguing that in order for God to be technically dead, he'd have to first be alive and all that bs, AND WINS.

What I want to know is if everybody else on this site is a (you tell me) like him who just wants to alienate noobs on their way to jacking up their leaderboard ranking, or are there people here who are actually trying to sharpen their reasoning faculties so that they can make better decisions in life and become better human beings (and if so who they are so that I can learn from them).

Thank you.

Debate is a sport, the goal is to win. That requires the use of a proper resolution. If someone is to lazy to type out what they want to debate they deserve to lose. debate is framed around the topic or resolution. It's really simple not to get sniped. Take your time and watch what you post as the topic otherwise take the loss with a smile and move on.


If his goal is discussion th forums are open for a reason, debates help you learn but the goal of it is to debate a resolution And win which I did.

I have quite a few good debates as well but it tends to be with people that have enough comprehensive ability to formulate a resolution properly.

You're saying his debate resolution was unclear? Is there anybody who's familiar with the quote "God is dead" who would mistake his meaning? I joined this site not so I can play some game with made up rules where people exert all their energy on trying to misunderstand one another. I'm here to listen to what people have to say, to have my mind changed, to hopefully change others minds, and to improve my ability to communicate my ideas in a logical way. NOT to be a sophist (which you seem to be admitting that you are).

A resolution is framed around wording. It's the topic of a debate. The topic entails death , as it states it verbatim. People that get sniped learn not to frame stuff in a horrible way. If someone wants discussion, take it to the forums. Debate is a sport and the goal is to win.

Had he phrased it properly I would have given him an equal lashing. The only difference is the amount of words it takes me to do it

That guy Will always check his phrasing now, so he has learned a lesson as well
Jonbonbon
Posts: 2,763
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3/23/2015 1:04:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 12:58:28 AM, jowett wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:49:43 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:34:03 AM, jowett wrote:
I'm new to DDO, so I look at the leaderboard to try to find someone who's past debates I can learn from. This guy Mikal is at the top. So I go to the last ACTUAL debate I can find of his (not counting rap battles). He's debating this guy, a noob, about whether "God is dead," 5 rounds, and spends all his time arguing that in order for God to be technically dead, he'd have to first be alive and all that bs, AND WINS.

What I want to know is if everybody else on this site is a (you tell me) like him who just wants to alienate noobs on their way to jacking up their leaderboard ranking, or are there people here who are actually trying to sharpen their reasoning faculties so that they can make better decisions in life and become better human beings (and if so who they are so that I can learn from them).

Thank you.

Debate is a sport, the goal is to win. That requires the use of a proper resolution. If someone is to lazy to type out what they want to debate they deserve to lose. debate is framed around the topic or resolution. It's really simple not to get sniped. Take your time and watch what you post as the topic otherwise take the loss with a smile and move on.


If his goal is discussion th forums are open for a reason, debates help you learn but the goal of it is to debate a resolution And win which I did.

I have quite a few good debates as well but it tends to be with people that have enough comprehensive ability to formulate a resolution properly.

You're saying his debate resolution was unclear? Is there anybody who's familiar with the quote "God is dead" who would mistake his meaning? I joined this site not so I can play some game with made up rules where people exert all their energy on trying to misunderstand one another.

I actually disagree with this. Even though it's a well-known phrase, the resolution still needs to be clearly defined. Like if you're just using the phrase as the topic to really mean that God doesn't exist, then that should be very clearly stated. If you make too much of an attempt to understand what your opponent means, then you could end up debating two different topics just because nothing was ever clearly defined. For example, Mikal could be debating and saying that the idea of God is not dead because most of the world is theist (and that makes sense with the phrase), and his opponent could be arguing that God never existed. The arguments don't actually clash, so there's no debate. So when the instigator doesn't define the debate clearly, the contender may define it however he/she chooses to so that the debate can actually happen.

I'm here to listen to what people have to say, to have my mind changed, to hopefully change others minds, and to improve my ability to communicate my ideas in a logical way. NOT to be a sophist (which you seem to be admitting that you are).
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9

http://www.debate.org...
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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3/23/2015 1:06:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 12:58:28 AM, jowett wrote:

not so I can play some game

Here's your problem in understanding what debate is: debate just is a game about who can more clearly and more skillfully out-argue an opponent on a topic. There really are very little rules in debate --- outside of who is on what side, who speaks when, and the topic being discussed there really aren't any other rules on how the debate goes --- and because of that it's what's technically viewed as a "game".

If you dislike that, then I'm sorry, but I guess I can see two things that I can tell you: a) that debate really isn't your thing, and b) you're already in the right place! Forums are your style.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
jowett
Posts: 32
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3/23/2015 1:13:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 1:04:41 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:58:28 AM, jowett wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:49:43 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:34:03 AM, jowett wrote:
I'm new to DDO, so I look at the leaderboard to try to find someone who's past debates I can learn from. This guy Mikal is at the top. So I go to the last ACTUAL debate I can find of his (not counting rap battles). He's debating this guy, a noob, about whether "God is dead," 5 rounds, and spends all his time arguing that in order for God to be technically dead, he'd have to first be alive and all that bs, AND WINS.

What I want to know is if everybody else on this site is a (you tell me) like him who just wants to alienate noobs on their way to jacking up their leaderboard ranking, or are there people here who are actually trying to sharpen their reasoning faculties so that they can make better decisions in life and become better human beings (and if so who they are so that I can learn from them).

Thank you.

Debate is a sport, the goal is to win. That requires the use of a proper resolution. If someone is to lazy to type out what they want to debate they deserve to lose. debate is framed around the topic or resolution. It's really simple not to get sniped. Take your time and watch what you post as the topic otherwise take the loss with a smile and move on.


If his goal is discussion th forums are open for a reason, debates help you learn but the goal of it is to debate a resolution And win which I did.

I have quite a few good debates as well but it tends to be with people that have enough comprehensive ability to formulate a resolution properly.

You're saying his debate resolution was unclear? Is there anybody who's familiar with the quote "God is dead" who would mistake his meaning? I joined this site not so I can play some game with made up rules where people exert all their energy on trying to misunderstand one another.

I actually disagree with this. Even though it's a well-known phrase, the resolution still needs to be clearly defined. Like if you're just using the phrase as the topic to really mean that God doesn't exist, then that should be very clearly stated. If you make too much of an attempt to understand what your opponent means, then you could end up debating two different topics just because nothing was ever clearly defined. For example, Mikal could be debating and saying that the idea of God is not dead because most of the world is theist (and that makes sense with the phrase), and his opponent could be arguing that God never existed. The arguments don't actually clash, so there's no debate. So when the instigator doesn't define the debate clearly, the contender may define it however he/she chooses to so that the debate can actually happen.

I'm here to listen to what people have to say, to have my mind changed, to hopefully change others minds, and to improve my ability to communicate my ideas in a logical way. NOT to be a sophist (which you seem to be admitting that you are).

I don't know if you're seriously saying that Mikal could have actually misunderstood the meaning of the resolution or not. Look at the debate. In addition to the resolution, the noob also posted an opening comment which further clarified his meaning. What kind of message does it send noobs that the highest ranking guy on your site is just out trying to misunderstand your ideas? Do you people really think *most* people join this site to play your little game, or to actually have their ideas examined and examine the ideas of others?
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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3/23/2015 1:16:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 1:13:39 AM, jowett wrote:
At 3/23/2015 1:04:41 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:58:28 AM, jowett wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:49:43 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:34:03 AM, jowett wrote:
I'm new to DDO, so I look at the leaderboard to try to find someone who's past debates I can learn from. This guy Mikal is at the top. So I go to the last ACTUAL debate I can find of his (not counting rap battles). He's debating this guy, a noob, about whether "God is dead," 5 rounds, and spends all his time arguing that in order for God to be technically dead, he'd have to first be alive and all that bs, AND WINS.

What I want to know is if everybody else on this site is a (you tell me) like him who just wants to alienate noobs on their way to jacking up their leaderboard ranking, or are there people here who are actually trying to sharpen their reasoning faculties so that they can make better decisions in life and become better human beings (and if so who they are so that I can learn from them).

Thank you.

Debate is a sport, the goal is to win. That requires the use of a proper resolution. If someone is to lazy to type out what they want to debate they deserve to lose. debate is framed around the topic or resolution. It's really simple not to get sniped. Take your time and watch what you post as the topic otherwise take the loss with a smile and move on.


If his goal is discussion th forums are open for a reason, debates help you learn but the goal of it is to debate a resolution And win which I did.

I have quite a few good debates as well but it tends to be with people that have enough comprehensive ability to formulate a resolution properly.

You're saying his debate resolution was unclear? Is there anybody who's familiar with the quote "God is dead" who would mistake his meaning? I joined this site not so I can play some game with made up rules where people exert all their energy on trying to misunderstand one another.

I actually disagree with this. Even though it's a well-known phrase, the resolution still needs to be clearly defined. Like if you're just using the phrase as the topic to really mean that God doesn't exist, then that should be very clearly stated. If you make too much of an attempt to understand what your opponent means, then you could end up debating two different topics just because nothing was ever clearly defined. For example, Mikal could be debating and saying that the idea of God is not dead because most of the world is theist (and that makes sense with the phrase), and his opponent could be arguing that God never existed. The arguments don't actually clash, so there's no debate. So when the instigator doesn't define the debate clearly, the contender may define it however he/she chooses to so that the debate can actually happen.

I'm here to listen to what people have to say, to have my mind changed, to hopefully change others minds, and to improve my ability to communicate my ideas in a logical way. NOT to be a sophist (which you seem to be admitting that you are).

I don't know if you're seriously saying that Mikal could have actually misunderstood the meaning of the resolution or not. Look at the debate. In addition to the resolution, the noob also posted an opening comment which further clarified his meaning. What kind of message does it send noobs that the highest ranking guy on your site is just out trying to misunderstand your ideas? Do you people really think *most* people join this site to play your little game, or to actually have their ideas examined and examine the ideas of others?

People tend to join because they like debate, this is a part of debate both formal and non formal . If noobs don't like it then debate is not for them. Learn from the mistake and improve from it, stay on the forums, or go back to Facebook.
Defro
Posts: 847
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3/23/2015 1:16:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 12:34:03 AM, jowett wrote:
I'm new to DDO, so I look at the leaderboard to try to find someone who's past debates I can learn from. This guy Mikal is at the top. So I go to the last ACTUAL debate I can find of his (not counting rap battles). He's debating this guy, a noob, about whether "God is dead," 5 rounds, and spends all his time arguing that in order for God to be technically dead, he'd have to first be alive and all that bs, AND WINS.

What I want to know is if everybody else on this site is a (you tell me) like him who just wants to alienate noobs on their way to jacking up their leaderboard ranking, or are there people here who are actually trying to sharpen their reasoning faculties so that they can make better decisions in life and become better human beings (and if so who they are so that I can learn from them).

Thank you.

The purpose of debate isn't to have you " make better decisions in life and become better human beings"

Many horrible people have debates and win them. It doesn't make them any better people.

Debate is about defending your personal stance on an issue and attacking the stances that oppose your own using reason. This would certainly sharpen your reasoning faculties.

Everyone starts out a noob. Mikal was once a noob. You get out of the noob zone by beating people better than you. I don't see why you are upset. The debate was an agreenment between both parties. It's not like Mikal forced the noob to debate him to raise his ranking.
jowett
Posts: 32
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3/23/2015 1:16:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 1:06:14 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:58:28 AM, jowett wrote:

not so I can play some game


Here's your problem in understanding what debate is: debate just is a game about who can more clearly and more skillfully out-argue an opponent on a topic. There really are very little rules in debate --- outside of who is on what side, who speaks when, and the topic being discussed there really aren't any other rules on how the debate goes --- and because of that it's what's technically viewed as a "game".

If you dislike that, then I'm sorry, but I guess I can see two things that I can tell you: a) that debate really isn't your thing, and b) you're already in the right place! Forums are your style.

Where's the place for two people who want to argue about something they care about, so that they can share knowledge and help each other clear up what confusion they have so as to get closer to the truth?
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/23/2015 1:20:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 12:51:05 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
There's nothing necessarily wrong with sophistry. Words mean things.

Care to debate that? jk, lol.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Jonbonbon
Posts: 2,763
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3/23/2015 1:21:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 1:13:39 AM, jowett wrote:
At 3/23/2015 1:04:41 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:58:28 AM, jowett wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:49:43 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:34:03 AM, jowett wrote:
I'm new to DDO, so I look at the leaderboard to try to find someone who's past debates I can learn from. This guy Mikal is at the top. So I go to the last ACTUAL debate I can find of his (not counting rap battles). He's debating this guy, a noob, about whether "God is dead," 5 rounds, and spends all his time arguing that in order for God to be technically dead, he'd have to first be alive and all that bs, AND WINS.

What I want to know is if everybody else on this site is a (you tell me) like him who just wants to alienate noobs on their way to jacking up their leaderboard ranking, or are there people here who are actually trying to sharpen their reasoning faculties so that they can make better decisions in life and become better human beings (and if so who they are so that I can learn from them).

Thank you.

Debate is a sport, the goal is to win. That requires the use of a proper resolution. If someone is to lazy to type out what they want to debate they deserve to lose. debate is framed around the topic or resolution. It's really simple not to get sniped. Take your time and watch what you post as the topic otherwise take the loss with a smile and move on.


If his goal is discussion th forums are open for a reason, debates help you learn but the goal of it is to debate a resolution And win which I did.

I have quite a few good debates as well but it tends to be with people that have enough comprehensive ability to formulate a resolution properly.

You're saying his debate resolution was unclear? Is there anybody who's familiar with the quote "God is dead" who would mistake his meaning? I joined this site not so I can play some game with made up rules where people exert all their energy on trying to misunderstand one another.

I actually disagree with this. Even though it's a well-known phrase, the resolution still needs to be clearly defined. Like if you're just using the phrase as the topic to really mean that God doesn't exist, then that should be very clearly stated. If you make too much of an attempt to understand what your opponent means, then you could end up debating two different topics just because nothing was ever clearly defined. For example, Mikal could be debating and saying that the idea of God is not dead because most of the world is theist (and that makes sense with the phrase), and his opponent could be arguing that God never existed. The arguments don't actually clash, so there's no debate. So when the instigator doesn't define the debate clearly, the contender may define it however he/she chooses to so that the debate can actually happen.

I'm here to listen to what people have to say, to have my mind changed, to hopefully change others minds, and to improve my ability to communicate my ideas in a logical way. NOT to be a sophist (which you seem to be admitting that you are).

I don't know if you're seriously saying that Mikal could have actually misunderstood the meaning of the resolution or not. Look at the debate. In addition to the resolution, the noob also posted an opening comment which further clarified his meaning. What kind of message does it send noobs that the highest ranking guy on your site is just out trying to misunderstand your ideas? Do you people really think *most* people join this site to play your little game, or to actually have their ideas examined and examine the ideas of others?

Lol most people who join this site start a debate, then another noob accepts and both of them post like two sentences of crappy arguments then never return to the site again. Most people come here to vent an unrefined opinion. The people who are serious about it need to refine their resolutions and opening statements so that their resolution is clear and can't be sniped. And to be clear, I'm not necessarily using that debate as the primary example, but I have seen hundreds (literally hundreds) of debates where just judging by the first round and the title, I had no idea what the debate was supposed to be about.
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

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Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

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Jonbonbon
Posts: 2,763
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3/23/2015 1:27:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 1:16:40 AM, jowett wrote:
At 3/23/2015 1:06:14 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:58:28 AM, jowett wrote:

not so I can play some game


Here's your problem in understanding what debate is: debate just is a game about who can more clearly and more skillfully out-argue an opponent on a topic. There really are very little rules in debate --- outside of who is on what side, who speaks when, and the topic being discussed there really aren't any other rules on how the debate goes --- and because of that it's what's technically viewed as a "game".

If you dislike that, then I'm sorry, but I guess I can see two things that I can tell you: a) that debate really isn't your thing, and b) you're already in the right place! Forums are your style.

Where's the place for two people who want to argue about something they care about, so that they can share knowledge and help each other clear up what confusion they have so as to get closer to the truth?

The answer is written all over the forum posts under this topic. You just have to follow these steps to have that kind of debate:

1) Write a very clear resolution (preferably without the use of metaphors or aphorisms).
2) Define what is important and explain clearly.
3) Write rules in the first round (ex: no semantics, no trolling, etc.)
4) Make the debate impossible to accept by setting your standards impossibly high then challenge whoever you think will give you a good debate.
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9

http://www.debate.org...
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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3/23/2015 1:31:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
im not a sophist.....

........ im a bench
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/23/2015 1:32:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 1:31:36 AM, imabench wrote:
im not a sophist.....

........ im a bench

I saw that you had replied to this and my thought was "oh god... what is Imabench gonna say."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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3/23/2015 1:50:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 1:16:40 AM, jowett wrote:
At 3/23/2015 1:06:14 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:58:28 AM, jowett wrote:

not so I can play some game


Here's your problem in understanding what debate is: debate just is a game about who can more clearly and more skillfully out-argue an opponent on a topic. There really are very little rules in debate --- outside of who is on what side, who speaks when, and the topic being discussed there really aren't any other rules on how the debate goes --- and because of that it's what's technically viewed as a "game".

If you dislike that, then I'm sorry, but I guess I can see two things that I can tell you: a) that debate really isn't your thing, and b) you're already in the right place! Forums are your style.

Where's the place for two people who want to argue about something they care about, so that they can share knowledge and help each other clear up what confusion they have so as to get closer to the truth?

Two places:

1. Forums
2. A very carefully constructed debate with a clear resolution, defining exactly what you're looking to debate in the opening round and making the debate closed until you find an opponent who wants to debate that with you.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
jowett
Posts: 32
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3/23/2015 1:51:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 1:50:05 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/23/2015 1:16:40 AM, jowett wrote:
At 3/23/2015 1:06:14 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 3/23/2015 12:58:28 AM, jowett wrote:

not so I can play some game


Here's your problem in understanding what debate is: debate just is a game about who can more clearly and more skillfully out-argue an opponent on a topic. There really are very little rules in debate --- outside of who is on what side, who speaks when, and the topic being discussed there really aren't any other rules on how the debate goes --- and because of that it's what's technically viewed as a "game".

If you dislike that, then I'm sorry, but I guess I can see two things that I can tell you: a) that debate really isn't your thing, and b) you're already in the right place! Forums are your style.

Where's the place for two people who want to argue about something they care about, so that they can share knowledge and help each other clear up what confusion they have so as to get closer to the truth?

Two places:

1. Forums
2. A very carefully constructed debate with a clear resolution, defining exactly what you're looking to debate in the opening round and making the debate closed until you find an opponent who wants to debate that with you.

OK thanks Zaradi I'll do that. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.