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Vox_Veritas
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4/2/2015 3:23:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Sorry; I'm doing some shameless advertising here.
http://www.gofundme.com...
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Daltonian
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4/2/2015 3:25:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
My faith personally dictates that I cannot cater to black or ugly people, so I definitely support this business owner.
F _ C K
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Vox_Veritas
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4/2/2015 3:35:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Please help out "Memories Pizza", which is an Indiana bakery that expressed refusal to perform gay weddings and is now facing severe backlash from the Left.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Vox_Veritas
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4/2/2015 3:36:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 3:35:56 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Please help out "Memories Pizza", which is an Indiana bakery that expressed refusal to cater to gay weddings and is now facing severe backlash from the Left.

Fixed
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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4/2/2015 3:46:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
No.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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4/2/2015 3:46:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
In seriousness, though, this business owner shouldn't dish stuff like this out if he isn't afraid to get a taste of his own medicine.

It's ok for him to refuse service to people he doesn't like or thinks are nasty, so why is it bad for the half of America who is anti-discrimination to refuse to service him? Are Christians the only people who are allowed to refuse service based on their beliefs, because of some "faith card"? (yes, that intentionally sounds like race card)

His beliefs don't even make sense with Christianity. Jesus regularly ate dinner with criminals, murders, and prostitutes; yet hordes of people somehow find it Christian to refuse to eat with or provide services to "sinners". The discrimination isn't even rooted in genuine faith, it's rooted in selective bigotry.

This man discriminates against homosexuals, and now everyone who supports homosexuals being treated equally will refuse to service him and his family for the rest of his life - unless, of course, society agrees to have the common decency to not refuse services to people you barely know.

Maybe if he'd supported principals of anti-discrimination in the first place, he wouldn't be having these problems.

Don't dish what you can't take, or be forever labelled a hypocrite.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/2/2015 3:52:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 3:23:44 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sorry; I'm doing some shameless advertising here.
http://www.gofundme.com...

What a... These people are getting MORE business from the hateful right!

They did something. Any reaction they receive SHOULD be the cost they pay. However, just like usual, they will see NO damages from their brand of discrimination, because they get support from those who would like to perpetuate it.

FU*K THEM!
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,071
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4/2/2015 3:57:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 3:52:00 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/2/2015 3:23:44 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sorry; I'm doing some shameless advertising here.
http://www.gofundme.com...

What a... These people are getting MORE business from the hateful right!

They did something. Any reaction they receive SHOULD be the cost they pay. However, just like usual, they will see NO damages from their brand of discrimination, because they get support from those who would like to perpetuate it.

FU*K THEM!

I'm guessing that you don't plan on donating then.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,071
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4/2/2015 4:02:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 3:46:34 PM, Daltonian wrote:
In seriousness, though, this business owner shouldn't dish stuff like this out if he isn't afraid to get a taste of his own medicine.

It's ok for him to refuse service to people he doesn't like or thinks are nasty, so why is it bad for the half of America who is anti-discrimination to refuse to service him? Are Christians the only people who are allowed to refuse service based on their beliefs, because of some "faith card"? (yes, that intentionally sounds like race card)

His beliefs don't even make sense with Christianity. Jesus regularly ate dinner with criminals, murders, and prostitutes; yet hordes of people somehow find it Christian to refuse to eat with or provide services to "sinners". The discrimination isn't even rooted in genuine faith, it's rooted in selective bigotry.

This man discriminates against homosexuals, and now everyone who supports homosexuals being treated equally will refuse to service him and his family for the rest of his life - unless, of course, society agrees to have the common decency to not refuse services to people you barely know.

Maybe if he'd supported principals of anti-discrimination in the first place, he wouldn't be having these problems.

Don't dish what you can't take, or be forever labelled a hypocrite.

The dude stated that if some random gay guy enters just to get lunch or something, the owner won't discriminate against him.

I have seen a lot of comments which go like this:
"How about couples living together? What about prostitutes? Will they refuse to serve these people too?"
This is a false analogy; if the couple living together or the prostitute got married and wanted to have their reception at the Pizza place, the guy would be for that.
And even if there were contradictions in his moral code, he still has his rights.

Anyway, I'm glad to see that he's receiving so much donation money so far.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/2/2015 4:03:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 3:57:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 4/2/2015 3:52:00 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/2/2015 3:23:44 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sorry; I'm doing some shameless advertising here.
http://www.gofundme.com...

What a... These people are getting MORE business from the hateful right!

They did something. Any reaction they receive SHOULD be the cost they pay. However, just like usual, they will see NO damages from their brand of discrimination, because they get support from those who would like to perpetuate it.

FU*K THEM!

I'm guessing that you don't plan on donating then.

No... NO!!! And they don't need it.

Nice capitalism you got going there. The market was "punishing them" but HERO CONSERVATIVES TO THE RESCUE!!! with a giveaway!!!
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,071
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4/2/2015 4:04:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 4:03:13 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/2/2015 3:57:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 4/2/2015 3:52:00 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/2/2015 3:23:44 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Sorry; I'm doing some shameless advertising here.
http://www.gofundme.com...

What a... These people are getting MORE business from the hateful right!

They did something. Any reaction they receive SHOULD be the cost they pay. However, just like usual, they will see NO damages from their brand of discrimination, because they get support from those who would like to perpetuate it.

FU*K THEM!

I'm guessing that you don't plan on donating then.

No... NO!!! And they don't need it.

Nice capitalism you got going there. The market was "punishing them" but HERO CONSERVATIVES TO THE RESCUE!!! with a giveaway!!!

lol
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,071
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4/2/2015 4:05:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
$3500 left until a quarter of a million is reached...
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,071
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4/2/2015 4:12:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Less than $1500 left before a quarter of a million is reached...
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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4/2/2015 4:12:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 4:02:32 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 4/2/2015 3:46:34 PM, Daltonian wrote:
In seriousness, though, this business owner shouldn't dish stuff like this out if he isn't afraid to get a taste of his own medicine.

It's ok for him to refuse service to people he doesn't like or thinks are nasty, so why is it bad for the half of America who is anti-discrimination to refuse to service him? Are Christians the only people who are allowed to refuse service based on their beliefs, because of some "faith card"? (yes, that intentionally sounds like race card)

His beliefs don't even make sense with Christianity. Jesus regularly ate dinner with criminals, murders, and prostitutes; yet hordes of people somehow find it Christian to refuse to eat with or provide services to "sinners". The discrimination isn't even rooted in genuine faith, it's rooted in selective bigotry.

This man discriminates against homosexuals, and now everyone who supports homosexuals being treated equally will refuse to service him and his family for the rest of his life - unless, of course, society agrees to have the common decency to not refuse services to people you barely know.

Maybe if he'd supported principals of anti-discrimination in the first place, he wouldn't be having these problems.

Don't dish what you can't take, or be forever labelled a hypocrite.

The dude stated that if some random gay guy enters just to get lunch or something, the owner won't discriminate against him.

I have seen a lot of comments which go like this:
"How about couples living together? What about prostitutes? Will they refuse to serve these people too?"
This is a false analogy; if the couple living together or the prostitute got married and wanted to have their reception at the Pizza place, the guy would be for that.
That doesn't make sense. Prostitution and homosexuality are both "sins" according to the bible, so being all good with prostitutes having a wedding in your pizza parlour (totally realistic), but being against the gay couple illustrates ulterior motives and intentions than raw faith, which would dictate that he refuse both.
And even if there were contradictions in his moral code, he still has his rights.
Would it be acceptable for this man to now be persecuted and refused services in businesses all across the country, just because of his and 'personal life'? Technically, all those business owners have beliefs and justifications for refusing him service, too.

What if we just decided not to refuse certain services to people we barely know altogether, and circumvented the problem?
Anyway, I'm glad to see that he's receiving so much donation money so far.
Would you be as glad if he'd stated that he would refuse to cater a wedding reception for two people who were ugly, or black, or Jewish, or too fat for his liking? How is all of that stuff unjustified, but this is? Just because of the faith card?
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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4/2/2015 4:15:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 4:12:26 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Less than $1500 left before a quarter of a million is reached...
That's a grand total of less than 9000 people, which is smaller than the size of my town.

Contrasted with the 190,000,000+ people in the USA who still support homosexuality, I think the gay rights movement is doing fine. Thus, I'm not particularly worried about those 9000.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,071
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4/2/2015 4:22:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Now, let's see if they can reach $300,000...
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/2/2015 4:24:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 4:22:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Now, let's see if they can reach $300,000...

I think this violates the site TOS.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,071
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4/2/2015 4:24:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 4:12:43 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 4/2/2015 4:02:32 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 4/2/2015 3:46:34 PM, Daltonian wrote:
In seriousness, though, this business owner shouldn't dish stuff like this out if he isn't afraid to get a taste of his own medicine.

It's ok for him to refuse service to people he doesn't like or thinks are nasty, so why is it bad for the half of America who is anti-discrimination to refuse to service him? Are Christians the only people who are allowed to refuse service based on their beliefs, because of some "faith card"? (yes, that intentionally sounds like race card)

His beliefs don't even make sense with Christianity. Jesus regularly ate dinner with criminals, murders, and prostitutes; yet hordes of people somehow find it Christian to refuse to eat with or provide services to "sinners". The discrimination isn't even rooted in genuine faith, it's rooted in selective bigotry.

This man discriminates against homosexuals, and now everyone who supports homosexuals being treated equally will refuse to service him and his family for the rest of his life - unless, of course, society agrees to have the common decency to not refuse services to people you barely know.

Maybe if he'd supported principals of anti-discrimination in the first place, he wouldn't be having these problems.

Don't dish what you can't take, or be forever labelled a hypocrite.

The dude stated that if some random gay guy enters just to get lunch or something, the owner won't discriminate against him.

I have seen a lot of comments which go like this:
"How about couples living together? What about prostitutes? Will they refuse to serve these people too?"
This is a false analogy; if the couple living together or the prostitute got married and wanted to have their reception at the Pizza place, the guy would be for that.
That doesn't make sense. Prostitution and homosexuality are both "sins" according to the bible, so being all good with prostitutes having a wedding in your pizza parlour (totally realistic), but being against the gay couple illustrates ulterior motives and intentions than raw faith, which would dictate that he refuse both.
And even if there were contradictions in his moral code, he still has his rights.
Would it be acceptable for this man to now be persecuted and refused services in businesses all across the country, just because of his and 'personal life'? Technically, all those business owners have beliefs and justifications for refusing him service, too.

None of the people opposing this guy have a religious motivation.

What if we just decided not to refuse certain services to people we barely know altogether, and circumvented the problem?
Anyway, I'm glad to see that he's receiving so much donation money so far.
Would you be as glad if he'd stated that he would refuse to cater a wedding reception for two people who were ugly, or black, or Jewish, or too fat for his liking? How is all of that stuff unjustified, but this is? Just because of the faith card?

It wouldn't go against any reasonable person's religious beliefs to be opposed to marriage between two ugly people, but I suppose that it is his right, if he genuinely believes that.
And yes, religious belief is special.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,071
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4/2/2015 4:25:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 4:24:22 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/2/2015 4:22:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Now, let's see if they can reach $300,000...

I think this violates the site TOS.

How so?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/2/2015 4:26:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 3:35:56 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Please help out "Memories Pizza", which is an Indiana bakery that expressed refusal to perform gay weddings and is now facing severe backlash from the Left.

Stop trying to counteract the free market, you communist... The free market has spoken out against this business and that's why it's failing. If people want to boycott the business due to its owner's religious beliefs, then his beliefs are pricing him out of the market. Only an avowed communist would seek redistribution from the members of DDO directly to a failing business that the beautiful free hand of the market has consigned to the dung pile.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
TBR
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4/2/2015 4:26:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 4:25:21 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 4/2/2015 4:24:22 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/2/2015 4:22:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Now, let's see if they can reach $300,000...

I think this violates the site TOS.

How so?

Advertising

"Will not upload, copy, distribute, share, or otherwise use unsolicited or unauthorized advertising or promotional material, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation. "
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/2/2015 4:27:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
How so?

Advertising

"Will not upload, copy, distribute, share, or otherwise use unsolicited or unauthorized advertising or promotional material, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation. "

Two
Will not use the Service to artificially generate traffic or page links to a Website or for any other purpose not intended for personal, noncommercial use of the Service.
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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4/2/2015 4:27:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 4:24:57 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
And yes, religious belief is special.
No, it absolutely is not. This completely invalidates any reason I might have been seeing in the arguments on the behalf of this family, because you're basically saying "Theists should get to discriminate and nobody else should, because we are special" - this is no better than people denying services to blacks during the era of racial segregation, and basically would legalize and endorse Christian elitism in America.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/2/2015 4:27:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 4:25:21 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 4/2/2015 4:24:22 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/2/2015 4:22:38 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Now, let's see if they can reach $300,000...

I think this violates the site TOS.

How so?

Spamming. "Click me" = clickbait title. The link is your own personal cause; it has nothing to do with "Debate.org," the forum you posted in. And you're spamming updates to the money count constantly to bump your thread.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,071
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4/2/2015 4:27:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 4:26:28 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 3:35:56 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Please help out "Memories Pizza", which is an Indiana bakery that expressed refusal to perform gay weddings and is now facing severe backlash from the Left.

Stop trying to counteract the free market, you communist... The free market has spoken out against this business and that's why it's failing. If people want to boycott the business due to its owner's religious beliefs, then his beliefs are pricing him out of the market. Only an avowed communist would seek redistribution from the members of DDO directly to a failing business that the beautiful free hand of the market has consigned to the dung pile.

His failure had nothing to do with the quality of his products or service; it was a politically motivated boycott, and this is a counter-boycott.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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4/2/2015 4:29:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 4:26:28 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 3:35:56 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Please help out "Memories Pizza", which is an Indiana bakery that expressed refusal to perform gay weddings and is now facing severe backlash from the Left.

Stop trying to counteract the free market, you communist... The free market has spoken out against this business and that's why it's failing. If people want to boycott the business due to its owner's religious beliefs, then his beliefs are pricing him out of the market. Only an avowed communist would seek redistribution from the members of DDO directly to a failing business that the beautiful free hand of the market has consigned to the dung pile.
lol
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,071
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4/2/2015 4:30:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 4:27:55 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 4/2/2015 4:24:57 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
And yes, religious belief is special.
No, it absolutely is not. This completely invalidates any reason I might have been seeing in the arguments on the behalf of this family, because you're basically saying "Theists should get to discriminate and nobody else should, because we are special" - this is no better than people denying services to blacks during the era of racial segregation, and basically would legalize and endorse Christian elitism in America.

Yes it is. Atheists have no religious beliefs; religious people do. And no, it's not some trick to give political preference special rights. For 2000 years Christians have believed homosexuality to be immoral. It simply hasn't been an issue until about 1 century ago.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/2/2015 4:31:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 4:27:55 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 4/2/2015 4:26:28 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/2/2015 3:35:56 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Please help out "Memories Pizza", which is an Indiana bakery that expressed refusal to perform gay weddings and is now facing severe backlash from the Left.

Stop trying to counteract the free market, you communist... The free market has spoken out against this business and that's why it's failing. If people want to boycott the business due to its owner's religious beliefs, then his beliefs are pricing him out of the market. Only an avowed communist would seek redistribution from the members of DDO directly to a failing business that the beautiful free hand of the market has consigned to the dung pile.

His failure had nothing to do with the quality of his products or service; it was a politically motivated boycott, and this is a counter-boycott.

Wow, much communism... So much propaganda. Redistribution of wealth to a failing business is incompatible with capitalism. Go back to North Korea.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)