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When voting, how often do you check sources?

striatedgs
Posts: 12
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4/15/2015 3:14:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I check about [fill in the blank]% of sources in debates I vote on.

Note: I know there is a "POLLS" section on this website, but it doesn't seem to me to get much traffic, so I posted this here. I hope that's OK.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/15/2015 3:22:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/15/2015 3:14:41 PM, striatedgs wrote:
I check about [fill in the blank]% of sources in debates I vote on.

Note: I know there is a "POLLS" section on this website, but it doesn't seem to me to get much traffic, so I posted this here. I hope that's OK.

1) The polls get LOTS of traffic
2) Debates I am involved in I check (read) almost always.
3) Debates I am voting on... Depended how critical it is to the debate, how controversial.
4) Casual reading debates, rarely. Only if I am interested in the subject.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/15/2015 3:52:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't check, it's up to the persons opponent to check and point out flaws or misinterpretations etc.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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4/15/2015 5:01:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Often. I don't usually vote on it but if I'm voting I'm at least mildly interested in the topic so I scan them
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striatedgs
Posts: 12
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4/15/2015 5:13:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/15/2015 3:52:40 PM, Wylted wrote:
I don't check, it's up to the persons opponent to check and point out flaws or misinterpretations etc.

How can you tell whether any flaws in a source that an opponent points out are in fact truly flaws, without checking the source yourself?
striatedgs
Posts: 12
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4/15/2015 5:17:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Edit: By "checking a source," I mean clicking the link.

Also, I would appreciate if people could try to give a number as I'm trying to figure out the average.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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4/15/2015 6:55:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You can't have a numerical average. I generally check contested sources. If both sides agree on what a source says, then I typically try not to read them so I don't get influenced by extra arguments beyond the character limit of the debate. I may check them after I've already decided who to vote for though.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/15/2015 7:00:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/15/2015 5:13:47 PM, striatedgs wrote:
At 4/15/2015 3:52:40 PM, Wylted wrote:
I don't check, it's up to the persons opponent to check and point out flaws or misinterpretations etc.

How can you tell whether any flaws in a source that an opponent points out are in fact truly flaws, without checking the source yourself?

If there is disagreement as to the flaw, I look. If there is no rebuttal for an accusation, then I assume it's there.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/15/2015 7:01:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/15/2015 6:55:28 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
You can't have a numerical average. I generally check contested sources. If both sides agree on what a source says, then I typically try not to read them so I don't get influenced by extra arguments beyond the character limit of the debate. I may check them after I've already decided who to vote for though.

That's what I do also. I'm not sure if it came across differently, because of my tone.
thett3
Posts: 14,382
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4/15/2015 7:04:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Never unless there's a dispute about what one actually says. It's the debaters job to point out flaws in their opponents sources, not mine
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Death23
Posts: 785
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4/15/2015 10:04:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/15/2015 3:14:41 PM, striatedgs wrote:
I check about [fill in the blank]% of sources in debates I vote on.

Note: I know there is a "POLLS" section on this website, but it doesn't seem to me to get much traffic, so I posted this here. I hope that's OK.

Source checking is the responsibility of the debaters, and sources are typically used to support factual assertions. I generally won't check sources unless the asserted fact is material to my vote, it is disputed by the opposing debater, and/or it strikes me as dubious.
striatedgs
Posts: 12
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4/16/2015 10:41:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The goal of this poll

I would estimate that I check about 1% of all sources listed (this is with respect to debates I haven't voted on, as I've never voted before).

This 1% occurs regardless of whether a source is contested or not, because if it is contested, I rely on the level of indignation of each party to determine who to believe.

My goal in this poll is to try to figure out if this is just me, or if this is commonplace on DDO.

My bias in starting this poll

I believe the fundamental purpose of debate is to change minds.

However, because debates are evaluated on this website not based on whether they change minds but on other factors, I feel that the debaters themselves are incentivized to try to appeal to these factors at the expense of trying to change minds.

I believe this manifests itself with respect to sources in the following ways:

1. Debaters often provide sources for claims that they could support through argumentation. This results in people having debates over something the evidence for which is not immediately apparent to the reader.

2. Debaters often provide many more sources than are necessary, disincentivizing people from checking them because of the sheer quantity of them.

3. Debaters' links for their sources are often to websites with a lot of information without any further instruction as to what specific information on the website they're referencing, which disincentivizes people from reading that website once they get there, and on clicking links in general in the future.

4. Debaters often provide their sources at the end of their rounds rather than in-text citations. This may seem trivial, but in my own experience, it makes a big difference on whether I check a source or don't.

5. In general, checking any source, in my experience, takes a lot of energy. It breaks up my flow when reading a debate (which itself takes a lot of energy), I often lose my spot when I come back to the debate after having checked a source, it often takes a lot of work just to find the pertinent information within the source, and then once I've found the pertinent information I have to try to figure out to what degree a debater accurately paraphrased what the source says, and to what extent that matters. All of these things disincentive me from checking sources in general.

What this means

The effect of all this is that debates that are heavily sourced:

1. Make me so not want to read them (cf. its effect on turning people off the DEBATES section of this website), and

2. If I do read them, they have very little punching power when it comes to influencing my preconceived opinion on a subject, such that my informal evaluation of such debates comes down to superficial considerations of who seems more convincing, rather than who actually is.

Obviously, this like many other things could be remedied by me being less lazy, but at the same I feel that I as well as other readers of debates should be allowed some window of laziness.

What I'm trying to figure out is what that window of laziness should be, and if other people act like me, I think that window should reflect that, and that there should be, for example, a strong prejudice against using sources.

Tl;dr

With respect to this thread, I would greatly appreciate it if people could try to come up with a ballpark figure (a percentage) as to how often they check sources (i.e. click on the link of a source) when voting on a debate.

I know this is a very approximate number in that sources vary in importance depending on the subject of a debate (e.g. philosophical debates vs. scientific debates), but all I'm looking for is a very approximate average for how often people do this.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/16/2015 10:59:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
2) Debates I am involved in I check (read) almost always.
3) Debates I am voting on... Depended how critical it is to the debate, how controversial.
4) Casual reading debates, rarely. Only if I am interested in the subject.

As a participant in the debate
- Controversial point = 90-100%
- Interesting point = 80'ish%
- Non controversial/non-interesting = 50% (quick scan)

As a voter
- Controversial point = 80'ish%
- Interesting point = 80'ish%
- Non controversial/interesting = 0% (quick scan)

As reader
- Controversial point = 20'ish%
- Interesting point = 30'ish%
- Non controversial/interesting = 0% (quick scan)

Just rough "guesses".
striatedgs
Posts: 12
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4/16/2015 11:02:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 10:59:02 AM, TBR wrote:
2) Debates I am involved in I check (read) almost always.
3) Debates I am voting on... Depended how critical it is to the debate, how controversial.
4) Casual reading debates, rarely. Only if I am interested in the subject.

As a participant in the debate
- Controversial point = 90-100%
- Interesting point = 80'ish%
- Non controversial/non-interesting = 50% (quick scan)

As a voter
- Controversial point = 80'ish%
- Interesting point = 80'ish%
- Non controversial/interesting = 0% (quick scan)

As reader
- Controversial point = 20'ish%
- Interesting point = 30'ish%
- Non controversial/interesting = 0% (quick scan)

Just rough "guesses".

What percentage of the time do you find something controversial/interesting?
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/16/2015 11:05:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago

What percentage of the time do you find something controversial/interesting?

Don't know I can put a good number on that. I have been reading a debate and become more interested in the link than the debate.