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DDO Should Increase Time Btwn Debate Rounds

FuzzyCatPotato
Posts: 50
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4/17/2015 10:59:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Right now, you can only max out the time between debate rounds at 3 days per round per person.

This can be problematic for busy people -- think somebody who's busy during the week but free during the weekend.

I propose that DDO add three additional options:

5 days between rounds
7 days between rounds
14 days between rounds
As you can see, the Fuzzy Cat-Potato (Quamquam Felis-tuberosum) is far too evolutionarily disadvantageous to ever evolve. Thus, a God must exist, and he is drunk.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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4/17/2015 11:02:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 10:59:03 AM, FuzzyCatPotato wrote:
Right now, you can only max out the time between debate rounds at 3 days per round per person.

This can be problematic for busy people -- think somebody who's busy during the week but free during the weekend.

I propose that DDO add three additional options:

5 days between rounds
7 days between rounds
14 days between rounds

I'd debate more!
Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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4/17/2015 11:18:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 10:59:03 AM, FuzzyCatPotato wrote:
Right now, you can only max out the time between debate rounds at 3 days per round per person.

This can be problematic for busy people -- think somebody who's busy during the week but free during the weekend.

I propose that DDO add three additional options:

5 days between rounds
7 days between rounds
14 days between rounds

concur

other than 14 XD

I think it should just add more options

1
2
3
5
7
FuzzyCatPotato
Posts: 50
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4/17/2015 11:22:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 11:18:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
concur

other than 14 XD

whatchu got 'gainst 14

14 is a proud, upstanding member of the number community
As you can see, the Fuzzy Cat-Potato (Quamquam Felis-tuberosum) is far too evolutionarily disadvantageous to ever evolve. Thus, a God must exist, and he is drunk.
Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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4/17/2015 11:24:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 11:22:32 AM, FuzzyCatPotato wrote:
At 4/17/2015 11:18:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
concur

other than 14 XD

whatchu got 'gainst 14

14 is a proud, upstanding member of the number community

to long lol
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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4/17/2015 11:33:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Glad to see this idea come up again.
http://www.debate.org...
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TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/17/2015 11:38:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 10:59:03 AM, FuzzyCatPotato wrote:
Right now, you can only max out the time between debate rounds at 3 days per round per person.

This can be problematic for busy people -- think somebody who's busy during the week but free during the weekend.

I propose that DDO add three additional options:

5 days between rounds
7 days between rounds
14 days between rounds

Yes. I have been doing something I never though I would. Forfeit rounds.

Its easy to take a few min here and there to respond to a poll, or forum, but to sit and read an article, write a debate round. Well, that's hard while at work. Get home, and have new sets of issues.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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4/17/2015 12:12:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think that 7 or 14 days is excessive.

I think that 4 or 5 days would be good, but I wouldn't support anything longer than 5 days.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Genghis_Khan
Posts: 480
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4/17/2015 12:16:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 12:12:18 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I think that 7 or 14 days is excessive.

I think that 4 or 5 days would be good, but I wouldn't support anything longer than 5 days.

7 days ensures that you have at least one weekend to work on the argument. I think a lot of our currently inactive debaters would start debating more if such options were implemented. YYW and bluesteel have already said they would in another thread on this matter.
anything your heart desires
Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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4/17/2015 12:17:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 12:12:18 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I think that 7 or 14 days is excessive.

I think that 4 or 5 days would be good, but I wouldn't support anything longer than 5 days.

I think 14 is to much. 7 is good for people that work alot.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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4/17/2015 12:29:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 12:16:11 PM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 4/17/2015 12:12:18 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I think that 7 or 14 days is excessive.

I think that 4 or 5 days would be good, but I wouldn't support anything longer than 5 days.

7 days ensures that you have at least one weekend to work on the argument. I think a lot of our currently inactive debaters would start debating more if such options were implemented. YYW and bluesteel have already said they would in another thread on this matter.

Let's assume that such a debate occurs and that each debater takes the maximum 7 days to post. A 3 round debate could take 35 days to complete (7 days to post R1 second half, and then 14 days for each subsequent round). A 5 round debate could take 63 days to finish. This is problematic for several reasons: (1) in a debate that long, participants could easily lose interest in the debate, (2) the longer you prolong the debate, the more risk there is that "life will happen," i.e. you might be free for the forseeable future, but as things drag on, your availability may evaporate, so I am not convinced it would greatly decrease forfeiture rates, and (3) since front page status is determined by comments on a debate, it unfairly gives some debates huge amounts of time to wrack up comments, which biases front page status towards longer debates.

Really, 7 is just totally excessive. 5 days is pushing it, but I would say that it would generally give people weekend time to post and would give people a reasonable amount of time to post.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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4/17/2015 12:30:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 12:17:06 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 4/17/2015 12:12:18 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I think that 7 or 14 days is excessive.

I think that 4 or 5 days would be good, but I wouldn't support anything longer than 5 days.

I think 14 is to much. 7 is good for people that work alot.

That's still too much.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/17/2015 12:45:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 11:22:32 AM, FuzzyCatPotato wrote:
At 4/17/2015 11:18:54 AM, Mikal wrote:
concur

other than 14 XD

whatchu got 'gainst 14

14 is a proud, upstanding member of the number community

14 is tinny. It hurts me ears. Seven is a woodie number.
Genghis_Khan
Posts: 480
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4/17/2015 1:28:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 12:29:47 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/17/2015 12:16:11 PM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 4/17/2015 12:12:18 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I think that 7 or 14 days is excessive.

I think that 4 or 5 days would be good, but I wouldn't support anything longer than 5 days.

7 days ensures that you have at least one weekend to work on the argument. I think a lot of our currently inactive debaters would start debating more if such options were implemented. YYW and bluesteel have already said they would in another thread on this matter.

Let's assume that such a debate occurs and that each debater takes the maximum 7 days to post. A 3 round debate could take 35 days to complete (7 days to post R1 second half, and then 14 days for each subsequent round). A 5 round debate could take 63 days to finish. This is problematic for several reasons: (1) in a debate that long, participants could easily lose interest in the debate,

Why should we assume that they'll always take up the whole time?
And remember that they *chose* to have the limit be 7 days, so it is unlikely that they will simply "lose interest" just because it was taking a while.

(2) the longer you prolong the debate, the more risk there is that "life will happen," i.e. you might be free for the forseeable future, but as things drag on, your availability may evaporate, so I am not convinced it would greatly decrease forfeiture rates

The whole point of a 7 day limit is that *even* if life happens, debaters will still probably have time to post. Very few people can claim they don't have even 2 hrs of free time in an entire week. And anyways, using your own calculation, a 5 day time limit only results in 12 less days than a 7 day limit. Is there really a that much greater likelihood of something big coming up during that time? It is much more likely that something smaller comes up during a 3-day period and results in an FF.

(3) since front page status is determined by comments on a debate, it unfairly gives some debates huge amounts of time to wrack up comments, which biases front page status towards longer debates.

Lol front page criteria need to be changed anyways. The current ones are ridiculous.


Really, 7 is just totally excessive. 5 days is pushing it, but I would say that it would generally give people weekend time to post and would give people a reasonable amount of time to post.

7-day limit has 100% certainty at minimal extra exepense.
anything your heart desires
footballchris561
Posts: 23
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4/17/2015 3:11:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 10:59:03 AM, FuzzyCatPotato wrote:
Right now, you can only max out the time between debate rounds at 3 days per round per person.

This can be problematic for busy people -- think somebody who's busy during the week but free during the weekend.

I propose that DDO add three additional options:

5 days between rounds
7 days between rounds
14 days between rounds

I think that even 4 or 5 days is too long. 3 days is a perfect maximum. The idea of having the option is not a bad idea though. But I would not want to wait 5 or 7 days for a debate response let alone 14.
Kozu
Posts: 381
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4/17/2015 3:17:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why are people complaining 14 days is too long? You don't have to debate with that time period. What is the concern of adding the option?
Lee001
Posts: 3,168
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4/17/2015 3:17:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 10:59:03 AM, FuzzyCatPotato wrote:
Right now, you can only max out the time between debate rounds at 3 days per round per person.

This can be problematic for busy people -- think somebody who's busy during the week but free during the weekend.

I propose that DDO add three additional options:

5 days between rounds
7 days between rounds
14 days between rounds

I definitely think the time between rounds should be expanded..because some of us have to go to school for 15 hours a day :(
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Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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4/17/2015 3:20:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 12:30:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/17/2015 12:17:06 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 4/17/2015 12:12:18 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I think that 7 or 14 days is excessive.

I think that 4 or 5 days would be good, but I wouldn't support anything longer than 5 days.

I think 14 is to much. 7 is good for people that work alot.

That's still too much.

How and why though
striatedgs
Posts: 12
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4/17/2015 3:23:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Have people ever tried doing petitions to make changes to this website? For example:

"We request that the maximum number of days in between rounds of a debate on debate.org be increased to 7.

1. striatedgs
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
...
X.


Then, once X number of people put their names to it, having airmax or ore_ele present it to Juggle?
Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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4/17/2015 3:24:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 3:23:11 PM, striatedgs wrote:
Have people ever tried doing petitions to make changes to this website? For example:

"We request that the maximum number of days in between rounds of a debate on debate.org be increased to 7.

1. striatedgs
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
...
X.


Then, once X number of people put their names to it, having airmax or ore_ele present it to Juggle?

dont bother juggle is not going to look at this. They are currently awol
striatedgs
Posts: 12
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4/17/2015 3:29:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 3:24:00 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 4/17/2015 3:23:11 PM, striatedgs wrote:
Have people ever tried doing petitions to make changes to this website? For example:

"We request that the maximum number of days in between rounds of a debate on debate.org be increased to 7.

1. striatedgs
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
...
X.


Then, once X number of people put their names to it, having airmax or ore_ele present it to Juggle?


dont bother juggle is not going to look at this. They are currently awol

This change can't be done without Juggle, right? So isn't this thread specifically about whether we should try to get Juggle to make this change?
Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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4/17/2015 3:32:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 3:29:49 PM, striatedgs wrote:
At 4/17/2015 3:24:00 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 4/17/2015 3:23:11 PM, striatedgs wrote:
Have people ever tried doing petitions to make changes to this website? For example:

"We request that the maximum number of days in between rounds of a debate on debate.org be increased to 7.

1. striatedgs
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
...
X.


Then, once X number of people put their names to it, having airmax or ore_ele present it to Juggle?


dont bother juggle is not going to look at this. They are currently awol

This change can't be done without Juggle, right? So isn't this thread specifically about whether we should try to get Juggle to make this change?

well it should happen, but it prob wont lol
striatedgs
Posts: 12
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4/17/2015 3:38:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 3:32:19 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 4/17/2015 3:29:49 PM, striatedgs wrote:
At 4/17/2015 3:24:00 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 4/17/2015 3:23:11 PM, striatedgs wrote:
Have people ever tried doing petitions to make changes to this website? For example:

"We request that the maximum number of days in between rounds of a debate on debate.org be increased to 7.

1. striatedgs
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
...
X.


Then, once X number of people put their names to it, having airmax or ore_ele present it to Juggle?


dont bother juggle is not going to look at this. They are currently awol

This change can't be done without Juggle, right? So isn't this thread specifically about whether we should try to get Juggle to make this change?

well it should happen, but it prob wont lol

I can understand Juggle's reluctance to make changes if they only have one or two in their ear about making changes. You talk about direct democracy being the solution to DDO's problems. Petitions seem to me to be an ideal way of manifesting that.
Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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4/17/2015 3:41:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 3:38:28 PM, striatedgs wrote:

I entirely agree in a way. The only way to make any *impact* is a community push. The issue is that neither a president nor direct democracy would fix the problem at hand. The president is less likely to fix and a direct democracy has more of a push, but you need them to listen

Juggle has only so many updates they do in periodic intervals based on their revenue. When they feel like the site is where it needs to be they back off because its based on the profitability

So in a realistic comparison, the community as a whole is the only major way to push a site update, but even that is not realistic when we have to get juggle to do it at this point.

not saying its impossible, but you would need the entire community in on it. Im 100 percent behind it if you can get a massive petition. Lead on
Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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4/17/2015 3:42:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 3:23:11 PM, striatedgs wrote:
Have people ever tried doing petitions to make changes to this website? For example:

"We request that the maximum number of days in between rounds of a debate on debate.org be increased to 7.

1. striatedgs
2. Mikals
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
...
X.


Then, once X number of people put their names to it, having airmax or ore_ele present it to Juggle?
Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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4/17/2015 3:44:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 3:23:11 PM, striatedgs wrote:

on a side note thanks. I just did an entire debate pushing for a community system, and I need to realize when and what to back up

Thanks for keeping me in check

Participate more in threads mate, I need a jolt like that once in a while
Genghis_Khan
Posts: 480
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4/17/2015 4:14:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 3:20:15 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 4/17/2015 12:30:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/17/2015 12:17:06 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 4/17/2015 12:12:18 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I think that 7 or 14 days is excessive.

I think that 4 or 5 days would be good, but I wouldn't support anything longer than 5 days.

I think 14 is to much. 7 is good for people that work alot.

That's still too much.

How and why though

Post 14 summarizes his reasons (and my explanation of why those aren't good reasons)
anything your heart desires
Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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4/17/2015 4:17:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 12:29:47 PM, bsh1 wrote:

let's debate this

I have been trying to debate you on something forever, but we basically agree on everything. This is something I def can do
FuzzyCatPotato
Posts: 50
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4/17/2015 6:13:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
1. striatedgs
2. Mikal
3. FuzzyCatPotato
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
...
X.
As you can see, the Fuzzy Cat-Potato (Quamquam Felis-tuberosum) is far too evolutionarily disadvantageous to ever evolve. Thus, a God must exist, and he is drunk.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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4/17/2015 8:18:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 1:28:35 PM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 4/17/2015 12:29:47 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/17/2015 12:16:11 PM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 4/17/2015 12:12:18 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I think that 7 or 14 days is excessive.

I think that 4 or 5 days would be good, but I wouldn't support anything longer than 5 days.

7 days ensures that you have at least one weekend to work on the argument. I think a lot of our currently inactive debaters would start debating more if such options were implemented. YYW and bluesteel have already said they would in another thread on this matter.

Let's assume that such a debate occurs and that each debater takes the maximum 7 days to post. A 3 round debate could take 35 days to complete (7 days to post R1 second half, and then 14 days for each subsequent round). A 5 round debate could take 63 days to finish. This is problematic for several reasons: (1) in a debate that long, participants could easily lose interest in the debate,

Why should we assume that they'll always take up the whole time?

Firstly, because if you have that much time, you're inclined to use it. I've been debating on DDO for a long time now, and I see it as a trend that most people use most of their available time to post. Secondly, you should assume a worst case scenario to ensure that even the worst case isn't that bad. Good rule to live by.

And remember that they *chose* to have the limit be 7 days, so it is unlikely that they will simply "lose interest" just because it was taking a while.

I think that's deceptive. People may think to themselves, "oh, 7 days sounds great," but then as it actual drags on, they may lose interest. The vast majority of people really aren't good at gauging the long-term effects of their actions, and make decisions based on short-term reasoning.

(2) the longer you prolong the debate, the more risk there is that "life will happen," i.e. you might be free for the forseeable future, but as things drag on, your availability may evaporate, so I am not convinced it would greatly decrease forfeiture rates

The whole point of a 7 day limit is that *even* if life happens, debaters will still probably have time to post.

That doesn't really address what I am getting at. Suppose I look at my calendar and realize I have a slow week ahead of me, so I start a debate. Then 10 days later, I get slammed with work such that, even with a week of free time, I can't post or I can find enough time to post a good argument. The future, as well as my future schedules, get more unpredictable the further from the present it gets. Keeping debates in a more knowable timeline helps to obviate that issue.

Very few people can claim they don't have even 2 hrs of free time in an entire week.

Sure, but that free time might not be my most productive (I get run down, tired, etc.) or I might want to make time during a hectic week to spend time with friends rather than post a debate argument on DDO. I think keeping things in a more immediate timeline helps people better plan things and helps them ensure their schedules actually do work with their real-life and online goals.

And anyways, using your own calculation, a 5 day time limit only results in 12 less days than a 7 day limit. Is there really a that much greater likelihood of something big coming up during that time?

12 days is nearly 2 weeks...that is a significant chunk of time.

It is much more likely that something smaller comes up during a 3-day period and results in an FF.

Sure, and I can see an argument for extending the response period...I just disagree that it should be 7 whole days.

(3) since front page status is determined by comments on a debate, it unfairly gives some debates huge amounts of time to wrack up comments, which biases front page status towards longer debates.

Lol front page criteria need to be changed anyways. The current ones are ridiculous.

That really doesn't address my point at all. Even if you used "like" buttons to determine front page status...The longer a debate goes on, the more likely it is to meet whatever criteria are necessary to get to the front page. Keeping debates closer together in time range thus promotes fairness.

Really, 7 is just totally excessive. 5 days is pushing it, but I would say that it would generally give people weekend time to post and would give people a reasonable amount of time to post.

7-day limit has 100% certainty at minimal extra exepense.

I disagree that the expense is minimal, and I think a general likelihood really is sufficient.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...