Total Posts:32|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Fallacy Finder

Unitomic
Posts: 591
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Have you ever sat there thinking "I KNOW that is a fallacy, I have read about it, and blah blah blah." But you can't for the life of you remember the name. You look it up, but instead you are getting all these other fallacies. Well, here, you just describe the fallacy, and you hope someone knows it's name.

I'll start. What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group? And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 3:09:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group?

Ad Populum, "50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong."

And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

Reverse Ad Populum, an idea is wrong because it's popular; the same flawed logic is used, just in a modified form.

...

One I don't have a name for, is a hybrid strawperson ad hominem of inventing direct quotes the person is supposed to have said. Any thoughts?
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
Unitomic
Posts: 591
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 3:23:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 3:09:53 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group?

Ad Populum, "50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong."

And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

Reverse Ad Populum, an idea is wrong because it's popular; the same flawed logic is used, just in a modified form.

...

well no.. that's not quite it. This fallacy is like "You're not a woman, therefore you can't give a valid answer relating to the female body". It's not exactly Ad Populum..

One I don't have a name for, is a hybrid strawperson ad hominem of inventing direct quotes the person is supposed to have said. Any thoughts?

could you give an example? Sounds like simple aggressive misquotation
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,036
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 3:25:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
Have you ever sat there thinking "I KNOW that is a fallacy, I have read about it, and blah blah blah." But you can't for the life of you remember the name. You look it up, but instead you are getting all these other fallacies. Well, here, you just describe the fallacy, and you hope someone knows it's name.

OMG yes. I even started a thread several months back asking if there was a Google search-type data base solely for finding fallacies based on descriptions you give. No-one knew of any though, and the best I've found are sites that offer lists of fallacies and their descriptions - it's still up to us to search through them all one-by-one though and find the one that matches.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Unitomic
Posts: 591
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 3:31:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 3:25:08 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
Have you ever sat there thinking "I KNOW that is a fallacy, I have read about it, and blah blah blah." But you can't for the life of you remember the name. You look it up, but instead you are getting all these other fallacies. Well, here, you just describe the fallacy, and you hope someone knows it's name.

OMG yes. I even started a thread several months back asking if there was a Google search-type data base solely for finding fallacies based on descriptions you give. No-one knew of any though, and the best I've found are sites that offer lists of fallacies and their descriptions - it's still up to us to search through them all one-by-one though and find the one that matches.
Exactly. And has the ol' black lady says "ain't nobody got time for that!" Well a large forum of many people who know immense numbers of fallacy should be more helpful then a list.

So I say this is a good idea.
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,036
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 3:37:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 3:31:40 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:25:08 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
Have you ever sat there thinking "I KNOW that is a fallacy, I have read about it, and blah blah blah." But you can't for the life of you remember the name. You look it up, but instead you are getting all these other fallacies. Well, here, you just describe the fallacy, and you hope someone knows it's name.

OMG yes. I even started a thread several months back asking if there was a Google search-type data base solely for finding fallacies based on descriptions you give. No-one knew of any though, and the best I've found are sites that offer lists of fallacies and their descriptions - it's still up to us to search through them all one-by-one though and find the one that matches.

Exactly. And as the ol' black lady says "ain't nobody got time for that!"

Lmao, preach it.

Well a large forum of many people who know immense numbers of fallacy should be more helpful then a list.

So I say this is a good idea.

Oh yeah, I fully agree, this is def a good idea. It'd certainly be useful.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Unitomic
Posts: 591
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 3:38:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 3:37:00 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:31:40 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:25:08 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
Have you ever sat there thinking "I KNOW that is a fallacy, I have read about it, and blah blah blah." But you can't for the life of you remember the name. You look it up, but instead you are getting all these other fallacies. Well, here, you just describe the fallacy, and you hope someone knows it's name.

OMG yes. I even started a thread several months back asking if there was a Google search-type data base solely for finding fallacies based on descriptions you give. No-one knew of any though, and the best I've found are sites that offer lists of fallacies and their descriptions - it's still up to us to search through them all one-by-one though and find the one that matches.

Exactly. And as the ol' black lady says "ain't nobody got time for that!"

Lmao, preach it.

Well a large forum of many people who know immense numbers of fallacy should be more helpful then a list.

So I say this is a good idea.

Oh yeah, I fully agree, this is def a good idea. It'd certainly be useful.

Excellent. I have some supporters! So do you have the answer for any of our fallacy issues? Do you have any fallacies yourself that needs answered?
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,036
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 3:42:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 3:38:02 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:37:00 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:31:40 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:25:08 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
Have you ever sat there thinking "I KNOW that is a fallacy, I have read about it, and blah blah blah." But you can't for the life of you remember the name. You look it up, but instead you are getting all these other fallacies. Well, here, you just describe the fallacy, and you hope someone knows it's name.

OMG yes. I even started a thread several months back asking if there was a Google search-type data base solely for finding fallacies based on descriptions you give. No-one knew of any though, and the best I've found are sites that offer lists of fallacies and their descriptions - it's still up to us to search through them all one-by-one though and find the one that matches.

Exactly. And as the ol' black lady says "ain't nobody got time for that!"

Lmao, preach it.

Well a large forum of many people who know immense numbers of fallacy should be more helpful then a list.

So I say this is a good idea.

Oh yeah, I fully agree, this is def a good idea. It'd certainly be useful.

Excellent. I have some supporters! So do you have the answer for any of our fallacy issues? Do you have any fallacies yourself that needs answered?

Well, I think the first one was sufficiently identified. The second one is kinda confusing but seems simple enough since it's basically the opposite. I'd have to spend some time looking for it though using one of the websites that lists fallacies, and don't have the time at the moment since I'm about to go rollerblading with my roommate.

When I get back I'll def see if I can lend a hand though, it'll prob be like 2 hours from now depending on how far we go today, lol.

And no, I don't have any fallacies of my own to ask about at the moment. I'm sure at some point I will though, and when that times comes this is gonna be the thread I pose em in.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Unitomic
Posts: 591
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 3:53:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 3:42:30 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:38:02 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:37:00 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:31:40 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:25:08 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
Have you ever sat there thinking "I KNOW that is a fallacy, I have read about it, and blah blah blah." But you can't for the life of you remember the name. You look it up, but instead you are getting all these other fallacies. Well, here, you just describe the fallacy, and you hope someone knows it's name.

OMG yes. I even started a thread several months back asking if there was a Google search-type data base solely for finding fallacies based on descriptions you give. No-one knew of any though, and the best I've found are sites that offer lists of fallacies and their descriptions - it's still up to us to search through them all one-by-one though and find the one that matches.

Exactly. And as the ol' black lady says "ain't nobody got time for that!"

Lmao, preach it.

Well a large forum of many people who know immense numbers of fallacy should be more helpful then a list.

So I say this is a good idea.

Oh yeah, I fully agree, this is def a good idea. It'd certainly be useful.

Excellent. I have some supporters! So do you have the answer for any of our fallacy issues? Do you have any fallacies yourself that needs answered?

Well, I think the first one was sufficiently identified. The second one is kinda confusing but seems simple enough since it's basically the opposite. I'd have to spend some time looking for it though using one of the websites that lists fallacies, and don't have the time at the moment since I'm about to go rollerblading with my roommate.


But it isn't ad populum. Ad Populum is saying "The majority says that law is good, therefore it's good". What I'm looking for says "You aren't black, therefore your thoughts on racism don't matter" It doesn't include majority in any way. Like in that situation, the majority of people aren't black, therefore it's not populum, which explicitly relies on popularity (or lack thereof). Another example is "You aren't a Chef, therefore aren't qualified to answer". The opposite would be "You're a member of a Union, and therefore are too biased to give a reasonable argument" or "You are from New York, and therefore you can't give an unbiased response about their economic situation!"

I use to think is was the "Insiders Fallacy" and "Outsiders Fallacy", but those don't turn up results on Google.

When I get back I'll def see if I can lend a hand though, it'll prob be like 2 hours from now depending on how far we go today, lol.

And no, I don't have any fallacies of my own to ask about at the moment. I'm sure at some point I will though, and when that times comes this is gonna be the thread I pose em in.
Thanks :)
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 4:13:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Unitomic's second one is an Appeal to Experience. "You haven't done x, so you don't have right to talk about y."
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Varrack
Posts: 2,410
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 4:22:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
Have you ever sat there thinking "I KNOW that is a fallacy, I have read about it, and blah blah blah." But you can't for the life of you remember the name. You look it up, but instead you are getting all these other fallacies. Well, here, you just describe the fallacy, and you hope someone knows it's name.

Yes, recently in fact. My opponent made the argument that if X isn't bad, X is good. I found out later it was the negative proof fallacy.

I'll start. What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group? And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

I think it's an ad hominem (attacking characteristics and making that the argument)
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 8:32:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy: At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
Have you ever sat there thinking "I KNOW that is a fallacy, I have read about it, and blah blah blah." But you can't for the life of you remember the name. You look it up, but instead you are getting all these other fallacies. Well, here, you just describe the fallacy, and you hope someone knows it's name.


I'll start. What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group? And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

http:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 9:01:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 3:23:29 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:09:53 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group?

Ad Populum, "50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong."

And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

Reverse Ad Populum, an idea is wrong because it's popular; the same flawed logic is used, just in a modified form.

...

well no.. that's not quite it. This fallacy is like "You're not a woman, therefore you can't give a valid answer relating to the female body". It's not exactly Ad Populum..

One I don't have a name for, is a hybrid strawperson ad hominem of inventing direct quotes the person is supposed to have said. Any thoughts?

could you give an example? Sounds like simple aggressive misquotation

I will use a made up example, rather than dragging any names into this.

User A said "I don't really like puppies, they high pitched cry they do annoys me."
User B quotes them as saying "I hate puppies, and like to slit their throats to silence them forever."
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 9:44:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
Have you ever sat there thinking "I KNOW that is a fallacy, I have read about it, and blah blah blah." But you can't for the life of you remember the name. You look it up, but instead you are getting all these other fallacies. Well, here, you just describe the fallacy, and you hope someone knows it's name.


I'll start. What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group?

- Maybe you're referring to "no true scotsman fallacy"!?
- Either case, this can also be identified as a stretched form of "ad populum", as in one's opinion is valid only if one is part of the group ; or also as an "ad hominem".

And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

- Maybe "ergo decedo"!?
- Also a form of "ad hominem".
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 9:55:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 3:09:53 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group?

Ad Populum, "50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong."

And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

Reverse Ad Populum, an idea is wrong because it's popular; the same flawed logic is used, just in a modified form.

...

One I don't have a name for, is a hybrid strawperson ad hominem of inventing direct quotes the person is supposed to have said. Any thoughts?

- "Poisoning the well"? Or just "Lying".
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 10:19:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 9:55:52 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:09:53 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group?

Ad Populum, "50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong."

And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

Reverse Ad Populum, an idea is wrong because it's popular; the same flawed logic is used, just in a modified form.

...

One I don't have a name for, is a hybrid strawperson ad hominem of inventing direct quotes the person is supposed to have said. Any thoughts?

- "Poisoning the well"? Or just "Lying".

You got me looking in the right place... I think it's False Attribution.

In the case of...
User A said "I don't really like puppies, they high pitched cry they do annoys me."
User B quotes them as saying "I hate puppies, and like to slit their throats to silence them forever."

Since it is not really User A who said it, credit for confessing to murdering the puppies must go properly to User B, which might lower their argument to no more than a concession (depending on the resolution).
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 10:22:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 10:19:47 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 4/30/2015 9:55:52 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:09:53 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group?

Ad Populum, "50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong."

And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

Reverse Ad Populum, an idea is wrong because it's popular; the same flawed logic is used, just in a modified form.

...

One I don't have a name for, is a hybrid strawperson ad hominem of inventing direct quotes the person is supposed to have said. Any thoughts?

- "Poisoning the well"? Or just "Lying".

You got me looking in the right place... I think it's False Attribution.

In the case of...
User A said "I don't really like puppies, they high pitched cry they do annoys me."
User B quotes them as saying "I hate puppies, and like to slit their throats to silence them forever."

Since it is not really User A who said it, credit for confessing to murdering the puppies must go properly to User B, which might lower their argument to no more than a concession (depending on the resolution).

- This is like false attribution combined with poisoning the well combined with ad hominem! Wow! The guy (B) must be really desperate to win his argument.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 10:27:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 10:22:57 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 4/30/2015 10:19:47 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 4/30/2015 9:55:52 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:09:53 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group?

Ad Populum, "50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong."

And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

Reverse Ad Populum, an idea is wrong because it's popular; the same flawed logic is used, just in a modified form.

...

One I don't have a name for, is a hybrid strawperson ad hominem of inventing direct quotes the person is supposed to have said. Any thoughts?

- "Poisoning the well"? Or just "Lying".

You got me looking in the right place... I think it's False Attribution.

In the case of...
User A said "I don't really like puppies, they high pitched cry they do annoys me."
User B quotes them as saying "I hate puppies, and like to slit their throats to silence them forever."

Since it is not really User A who said it, credit for confessing to murdering the puppies must go properly to User B, which might lower their argument to no more than a concession (depending on the resolution).

- This is like false attribution combined with poisoning the well combined with ad hominem! Wow! The guy (B) must be really desperate to win his argument.

Defiantly an angle of StrawPerson in there too :)

It's come up more often than I'd like, both in and out of debates, even from otherwise really smart people. I remember one debate not long ago, where in judging it I caught both sides doing that, then adding layers to it like a game of telephone.
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 10:29:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 10:27:47 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 4/30/2015 10:22:57 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 4/30/2015 10:19:47 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 4/30/2015 9:55:52 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:09:53 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group?

Ad Populum, "50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong."

And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

Reverse Ad Populum, an idea is wrong because it's popular; the same flawed logic is used, just in a modified form.

...

One I don't have a name for, is a hybrid strawperson ad hominem of inventing direct quotes the person is supposed to have said. Any thoughts?

- "Poisoning the well"? Or just "Lying".

You got me looking in the right place... I think it's False Attribution.

In the case of...
User A said "I don't really like puppies, they high pitched cry they do annoys me."
User B quotes them as saying "I hate puppies, and like to slit their throats to silence them forever."

Since it is not really User A who said it, credit for confessing to murdering the puppies must go properly to User B, which might lower their argument to no more than a concession (depending on the resolution).

- This is like false attribution combined with poisoning the well combined with ad hominem! Wow! The guy (B) must be really desperate to win his argument.

Defiantly an angle of StrawPerson in there too :)

It's come up more often than I'd like, both in and out of debates, even from otherwise really smart people. I remember one debate not long ago, where in judging it I caught both sides doing that, then adding layers to it like a game of telephone.

- Hahhaah! I really don't know why I am laughing so hard at this!
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
Unitomic
Posts: 591
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 10:32:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 9:01:44 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:23:29 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:09:53 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group?

Ad Populum, "50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong."

And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

Reverse Ad Populum, an idea is wrong because it's popular; the same flawed logic is used, just in a modified form.

...

well no.. that's not quite it. This fallacy is like "You're not a woman, therefore you can't give a valid answer relating to the female body". It's not exactly Ad Populum..

One I don't have a name for, is a hybrid strawperson ad hominem of inventing direct quotes the person is supposed to have said. Any thoughts?

could you give an example? Sounds like simple aggressive misquotation

I will use a made up example, rather than dragging any names into this.

User A said "I don't really like puppies, they high pitched cry they do annoys me."
User B quotes them as saying "I hate puppies, and like to slit their throats to silence them forever."

Sounds like a really really aggressive Strawman
Unitomic
Posts: 591
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 11:04:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 9:44:29 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
Have you ever sat there thinking "I KNOW that is a fallacy, I have read about it, and blah blah blah." But you can't for the life of you remember the name. You look it up, but instead you are getting all these other fallacies. Well, here, you just describe the fallacy, and you hope someone knows it's name.


I'll start. What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group?

- Maybe you're referring to "no true scotsman fallacy"!?
- Either case, this can also be identified as a stretched form of "ad populum", as in one's opinion is valid only if one is part of the group ; or also as an "ad hominem".

And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

- Maybe "ergo decedo"!?
- Also a form of "ad hominem".

Idk... I'm pretty certain it had it's own fallacy...
And I don't think it's ad populum. That deals with numbers, this deals with whether one can be right about a specific group that they are not in. Oh well, I guess it might fit into those groups.. oh well.
Death23
Posts: 781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 1:22:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:

I'll start. What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group? And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

I believe this is guilt by association.
n7
Posts: 1,360
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 4:42:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 2:04:11 PM, Unitomic wrote:
Have you ever sat there thinking "I KNOW that is a fallacy, I have read about it, and blah blah blah." But you can't for the life of you remember the name. You look it up, but instead you are getting all these other fallacies. Well, here, you just describe the fallacy, and you hope someone knows it's name.


I'll start. What is the fallacy where you claim someone's opinion is invalid because they are outside the group? And what about the opposite, where you claim one's view is biased because they are inside the group?

That sounds a lot like a genetic fallacy and an invalid appeal to authority.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.


Uphold Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Sargonist-n7ism.
Unitomic
Posts: 591
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 4:53:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Genetic Fallacy isn't a singular fallacy. It's a fallacy super-group which includes massive numbers of other fallacies, including Hominem, Populum, Authority, and others. It itself of course being a Fallacy of Irrelevance.
Unitomic
Posts: 591
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/4/2015 3:17:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"People don't want to believe that their own people are racists and biggots with a license to kill but they do exist. I'm not saying all of them, by any means, but they are out there and it needs to stop."

NAME THAT FALLACY!!
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2015 10:48:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Whats the one where the person just leaves it up to mystery "Me: God is morally perfect and omnipotent, yet the world is immoral and God could have it moral since he's omnipotent.
Other dude: Well you don't know the reasons behind his decision. You just can never know so don't judge until you have all the facts."

So they kinda leave it up to mystery like you can never know so leave it alone kind of stuff. Please help soon!
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2015 10:50:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/9/2015 10:48:39 PM, Hayd wrote:
Whats the one where the person just leaves it up to mystery "Me: God is morally perfect and omnipotent, yet the world is immoral and God could have it moral since he's omnipotent.
Other dude: Well you don't know the reasons behind his decision. You just can never know so don't judge until you have all the facts."

So they kinda leave it up to mystery like you can never know so leave it alone kind of stuff. Please help soon!

Appeal to ignorance is the first that pops into my head.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/9/2015 10:50:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/9/2015 10:50:24 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 5/9/2015 10:48:39 PM, Hayd wrote:
Whats the one where the person just leaves it up to mystery "Me: God is morally perfect and omnipotent, yet the world is immoral and God could have it moral since he's omnipotent.
Other dude: Well you don't know the reasons behind his decision. You just can never know so don't judge until you have all the facts."

So they kinda leave it up to mystery like you can never know so leave it alone kind of stuff. Please help soon!

Appeal to ignorance is the first that pops into my head.

K thanks a billion!
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/16/2015 1:13:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Need help again. Whats the one where its like, "Since we have computers, there is cyber warfare which leads to much more crime. Therefore we should ban computers." Yet, they ignore other options, like creating cyberwarfare precautions and such. The fallacy where they ignore all other options and twist it to go into their case. Please help!
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/16/2015 1:23:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 1:13:42 PM, Hayd wrote:
Need help again. Whats the one where its like, "Since we have computers, there is cyber warfare which leads to much more crime. Therefore we should ban computers." Yet, they ignore other options, like creating cyberwarfare precautions and such. The fallacy where they ignore all other options and twist it to go into their case. Please help!

False dichotomy
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross