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Resolved:Objectivism is not sound|Zarro v me

ShabShoral
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5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,222
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5/17/2015 10:22:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

Thanks, dearie - I love hearing you project.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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5/17/2015 10:23:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:22:20 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

Thanks, dearie - I love hearing you project.

Haha. I hope you survive when you read the future votes ;)
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,222
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5/17/2015 10:24:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:23:42 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:22:20 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

Thanks, dearie - I love hearing you project.

Haha. I hope you survive when you read the future votes ;)

Same to you <(=^D
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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5/17/2015 10:24:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

I sincerely hope that post was dry humor.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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5/17/2015 10:27:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

LOL.

Shots fired!
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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5/17/2015 10:31:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:24:55 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

I sincerely hope that post was dry humor.

You need to stop being so serious about everything.
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,222
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5/17/2015 10:32:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:24:55 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

I sincerely hope that post was dry humor.

If you would take offence to that, you better steer clear of the actual comments on the debate...
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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5/17/2015 10:32:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:27:36 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

LOL.

Shots fired!

Australia and America are going to have to build 1000s of new bullet factories because we have fired too many shots at each other.
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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5/17/2015 10:34:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:32:59 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:27:36 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

LOL.

Shots fired!

Australia and America are going to have to build 1000s of new bullet factories because we have fired too many shots at each other.

I'm not too sure about Australia, but I think America at the very least has enough ammunition reserves to last us through WWVI.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,222
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5/17/2015 10:35:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:34:10 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:32:59 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:27:36 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

LOL.

Shots fired!

Australia and America are going to have to build 1000s of new bullet factories because we have fired too many shots at each other.

I'm not too sure about Australia, but I think America at the very least has enough ammunition reserves to last us through WWVI.

You're underestimating the amount of shots that have been fired.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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5/17/2015 10:35:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:34:10 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:32:59 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:27:36 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

LOL.

Shots fired!

Australia and America are going to have to build 1000s of new bullet factories because we have fired too many shots at each other.

I'm not too sure about Australia, but I think America at the very least has enough ammunition reserves to last us through WWVI.

I don't think you quite realise how many shots bossy has fired.
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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5/17/2015 10:35:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:35:11 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:34:10 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:32:59 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:27:36 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

LOL.

Shots fired!

Australia and America are going to have to build 1000s of new bullet factories because we have fired too many shots at each other.

I'm not too sure about Australia, but I think America at the very least has enough ammunition reserves to last us through WWVI.

You're underestimating the amount of shots that have been fired.

Na. A lot of shots have in fact been fired, but I think you're underestimating the amount of money invested in firing *future* shots.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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5/17/2015 10:37:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:35:26 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:34:10 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:32:59 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:27:36 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

LOL.

Shots fired!

Australia and America are going to have to build 1000s of new bullet factories because we have fired too many shots at each other.

I'm not too sure about Australia, but I think America at the very least has enough ammunition reserves to last us through WWVI.

I don't think you quite realise how many shots bossy has fired.

Oh.

I thought we were talking about the U.S. Government LOL.

In that case, you're absolutely right: Bossy has in fact fired a lot of shots.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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5/17/2015 10:37:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:31:56 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:24:55 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

I sincerely hope that post was dry humor.

You need to stop being so serious about everything.

Eh. My sense of humor is dying.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,222
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5/17/2015 10:38:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:35:26 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:34:10 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:32:59 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:27:36 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

LOL.

Shots fired!

Australia and America are going to have to build 1000s of new bullet factories because we have fired too many shots at each other.

I'm not too sure about Australia, but I think America at the very least has enough ammunition reserves to last us through WWVI.

I don't think you quite realise how many shots bossy has fired.

Great (and not so great) minds think alike ;)
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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5/18/2015 1:23:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
1. Rand bases her philosophy on a concept of 'Man' or 'Life'.

2. She bases her philosophy, not mainly on empirical scientific studies but on elucidating those terms. The necessity and 'objectivity' are derived from the fact that contradicting the philosophy would be contradicting the meanings of those terms.

3. The terms therefore are used in a very specific sense in which they imply the rest of Rand's philosophy.

4. Shabshoral points out that whether the philosophy applies is contingent upon whether any particular person chooses to accept those terms.

5. Thus, Objectivism is completely subjective and its persuasiveness depends entirely upon whether anyone chooses to agree with it.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
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5/18/2015 1:39:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm gonna lol if this debate ends in a tie.

Seriously though, I've got tomorrow and wed. off from work so I'll give it a read and try to make a judgement.

Fair warning: I love you both equally.
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tejretics
Posts: 6,080
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5/18/2015 1:44:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:38:07 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:35:26 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:34:10 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:32:59 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:27:36 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:20:57 PM, Zarroette wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I had a good read of it and here is my feedback: stop being bad at debating.

I hope this helps.

LOL.

Shots fired!

Australia and America are going to have to build 1000s of new bullet factories because we have fired too many shots at each other.

I'm not too sure about Australia, but I think America at the very least has enough ammunition reserves to last us through WWVI.

I don't think you quite realise how many shots bossy has fired.

Great (and not so great) minds think alike ;)

Everyone is a great or not-so-great mind. Ergo, everyone thinks alike, by this logic :P
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,222
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5/18/2015 1:51:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 1:23:03 AM, sdavio wrote:
1. Rand bases her philosophy on a concept of 'Man' or 'Life'.

2. She bases her philosophy, not mainly on empirical scientific studies but on elucidating those terms. The necessity and 'objectivity' are derived from the fact that contradicting the philosophy would be contradicting the meanings of those terms.
Elucidating terms which are based on sense data. There is no distinction between analytic and synthetic, so, yes, contradicting Objectivism would contradict the "meanings" of the words, but only because the meanings of the words are directly grounded in existents, and existents have absolute identities.
3. The terms therefore are used in a very specific sense in which they imply the rest of Rand's philosophy.

4. Shabshoral points out that whether the philosophy applies is contingent upon whether any particular person chooses to accept those terms.
The truth value of the philosophy is not changed by its acceptance. The choice to accept or reject it does not make the entire system subjective.
5. Thus, Objectivism is completely subjective and its persuasiveness depends entirely upon whether anyone chooses to agree with it.

Again, persuasiveness =/= truth. The contextual statement "If x, then Y" may be certainly and objectively true even if x never came into play.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,222
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5/18/2015 1:51:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 1:39:42 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'm gonna lol if this debate ends in a tie.

Seriously though, I've got tomorrow and wed. off from work so I'll give it a read and try to make a judgement.

Fair warning: I love you both equally.

Love you more, baby ;)
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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5/18/2015 2:03:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 1:51:36 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
Elucidating terms which are based on sense data. There is no distinction between analytic and synthetic, so, yes, contradicting Objectivism would contradict the "meanings" of the words, but only because the meanings of the words are directly grounded in existents, and existents have absolute identities.

So who's to say that Rand's sense data is better than my sense data, or anyone else? She doesn't back it up with scientific studies or evidence, but just reverts back to logical formulations and defining terms.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,222
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5/18/2015 2:20:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 2:03:48 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 5/18/2015 1:51:36 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
Elucidating terms which are based on sense data. There is no distinction between analytic and synthetic, so, yes, contradicting Objectivism would contradict the "meanings" of the words, but only because the meanings of the words are directly grounded in existents, and existents have absolute identities.

So who's to say that Rand's sense data is better than my sense data, or anyone else?
Uh... no one? The debate never centered around the issue of sense data - Zarro never went down that path. She specifically kept focusing on concepts themselves and their limits, rather than the foundations for them.

She doesn't back it up with scientific studies or evidence, but just reverts back to logical formulations and defining terms.

She backs it up with infallible sense perception which she then integrates into concepts that then cannot be misused without the abuser being an equivocating sophist.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty
Zarroette
Posts: 2,951
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5/19/2015 4:56:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 1:39:42 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'm gonna lol if this debate ends in a tie.

I won't. It's about time someone put bossy in his place with his silly Objectivism. It's quite grating to see "A is A" or "Rand wouldn't be happy with this" every second comment he makes. He defends it better than anyone else I've heard (besides Rand), but I genuinely think I've got him.


Seriously though, I've got tomorrow and wed. off from work so I'll give it a read and try to make a judgement.

Fair warning: I love you both equally.

Awww, how diplomatic <3

But thank you =)
kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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5/19/2015 3:31:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I tried... TLDR....
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

Check out my website, the Sensible Soapbox http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,222
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5/19/2015 3:38:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 3:31:57 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I tried... TLDR....

I honestly don't blame you.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty
kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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5/19/2015 3:39:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 3:38:51 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 5/19/2015 3:31:57 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 5/17/2015 10:14:29 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
The DDO forum is already filled up with useless junk - this is at least productive.

Give it a read and give me feedback?

http://www.debate.org...

I tried... TLDR....

I honestly don't blame you.

I read round one and two... maybe later I will finish.
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

Check out my website, the Sensible Soapbox http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
SeventhProfessor
Posts: 5,079
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5/19/2015 3:50:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:22:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Entirely too much Rand in this debate for my vote to be objective.

LOL!
#UnbanTheMadman

#StandWithBossy

#BetOnThett

"bossy r u like 85 years old and have lost ur mind"
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