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Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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5/30/2015 9:11:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The more the higher marginal utility, until that number reaches 10, in which case the more the more negative utility.

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0x5f3759df
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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5/30/2015 9:24:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/30/2015 9:11:17 PM, Bullish wrote:
The more the higher marginal utility, until that number reaches 10, in which case the more the more negative utility.

You almost had me for a second... until you disregard *diminishing* marginal utility, not necessarily *negative* utility.

In many cases, actually, utility can't go negative - granted, there's a theoretical microeconomic example where hiring too many workers costs too much relative to their output and workers are literally tripping over each other. But if you were to look at a more realistic example - say, a Cobb-Douglas aggregate production function - we see output gains taper off, but nevertheless *increase* at a *decreasing rate.*

Not to mention, to even get negativity utility, you need to first reach diminishing utility, whereas total utility increases but marginal utility falls. If marginal utility is increasing, total utility can't suddenly fall.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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5/30/2015 9:28:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/30/2015 9:24:59 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 5/30/2015 9:11:17 PM, Bullish wrote:
The more the higher marginal utility, until that number reaches 10, in which case the more the more negative utility.

You almost had me for a second... until you disregard *diminishing* marginal utility, not necessarily *negative* utility.

In many cases, actually, utility can't go negative - granted, there's a theoretical microeconomic example where hiring too many workers costs too much relative to their output and workers are literally tripping over each other. But if you were to look at a more realistic example - say, a Cobb-Douglas aggregate production function - we see output gains taper off, but nevertheless *increase* at a *decreasing rate.*

Not to mention, to even get negativity utility, you need to first reach diminishing utility, whereas total utility increases but marginal utility falls. If marginal utility is increasing, total utility can't suddenly fall.

What if I'm talking about utility philosophically instead of economically.

Utility doesn't diminish before it becomes negative in this case. It just falls suddenly because of a production quota. If the above tells you to make 20 cars, and you make 21, that's a capital offense against the working class and you deserve to be executed.
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ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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5/30/2015 9:35:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/30/2015 9:28:46 PM, Bullish wrote:
What if I'm talking about utility philosophically instead of economically.

The same principle should apply, should it not? How does utility - or more specifically the derivative of the utility function, or let's just say marginal utility - go from increasing at an increasing rate to falling in aggregate terms? I don't think that's possible without a major shock to the system which changes the entire orientation of the utility function - or, I guess in philosophical terms, we could just call it a shock to the system.

Utility doesn't diminish before it becomes negative in this case. It just falls suddenly because of a production quota. If the above tells you to make 20 cars, and you make 21, that's a capital offense against the working class and you deserve to be executed.

Lol how is that an offense?

I mean, in theory, producing more than you should have otherwise, because it isn't shifting the actual supply curve but only moving along it (inefficiently thought it may be), but actually reducing *producer* surplus. Only the capitalists themselves would suffer from that because they're producing more, and thus investing more resources in, more than would be readily profit at some given price. There could be other forms of worker exploitation, but that essentially holds offenses against the working class constant.

See? Microeconomics is bullsh1t, but I can still spew it.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

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Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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5/30/2015 10:39:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/30/2015 10:31:59 PM, Bullish wrote:
1 spot, hilarious hangout tonight.

Is your mafia over? If so, I'll join.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,368
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5/30/2015 10:40:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/30/2015 10:39:12 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 5/30/2015 10:31:59 PM, Bullish wrote:
1 spot, hilarious hangout tonight.

Is your mafia over? If so, I'll join.

There's spot for 1 more. You can join.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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5/30/2015 10:41:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/30/2015 10:40:21 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 5/30/2015 10:39:12 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 5/30/2015 10:31:59 PM, Bullish wrote:
1 spot, hilarious hangout tonight.

Is your mafia over? If so, I'll join.

There's spot for 1 more. You can join.

By that do you mean there's a spot before Hangouts is full, or there's a spot in Mafia? (I'm asking because I don't play Mafia :P)
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,368
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5/30/2015 10:44:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/30/2015 10:41:37 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 5/30/2015 10:40:21 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 5/30/2015 10:39:12 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 5/30/2015 10:31:59 PM, Bullish wrote:
1 spot, hilarious hangout tonight.

Is your mafia over? If so, I'll join.

There's spot for 1 more. You can join.

By that do you mean there's a spot before Hangouts is full, or there's a spot in Mafia? (I'm asking because I don't play Mafia :P)

I doubt they might play mafia.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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5/30/2015 10:45:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/30/2015 10:44:23 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 5/30/2015 10:41:37 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 5/30/2015 10:40:21 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 5/30/2015 10:39:12 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 5/30/2015 10:31:59 PM, Bullish wrote:
1 spot, hilarious hangout tonight.

Is your mafia over? If so, I'll join.

There's spot for 1 more. You can join.

By that do you mean there's a spot before Hangouts is full, or there's a spot in Mafia? (I'm asking because I don't play Mafia :P)

I doubt they might play mafia.

Okay then... I join. :)
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...