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Announcement Regarding the Presidential Elect

YYW
Posts: 36,243
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5/31/2015 5:09:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Even if Ore hadn't abandoned the site in the middle of his presidency, this coming election would be a turning point for the site's future. Now that he's gone, and considering the circumstances under which he left, who gets elected here is going to either lay the foundation for Juggle's reinvestment in DDO, or set DDO up to be relegated to the periphery of Juggle's priority list.

The persistent theme of DDO's improvement since Juggle took over has been one of sporadic, minimally adequate improvement. The reason is because Juggle is interested in monetizing the site based on ad revenue, more than they are interested in taking this site where -realistically- it could go. The only way to know where you're going is to have a reasonably clear idea about where the site's been and to at the same time be deeply and personally invested in the site's success.

When you're considering between candidates, you've got to think about a lot of factors, but the most important thing you've got to be thinking about is this:

Who is most likely to get Juggle back on our side, doing things to fix and improve the site?

To answer that question, you've got to think about what Juggle's interests are and what our interests are, and you've got to be asking yourself who --among the candidates-- both understands the nexus of those sets of concerns, and realistically can and will take the time to see those projects through to their completion.

Bsh1 either has, or will soon, announce a platform which will be seriously heavy on site interface improvement. There will be community building stuff in there too, but it's heavy on site improvement stuff and the reason is because bsh1 has been planning to run for more than a year now. He's methodically taken the time to figure out what needs to be fixed, in a way that no other candidate has or will because he pays attention to details and doesn't make decisions on a whim. This is something he's been working towards for a long time, because he is personally invested in improving DDO -and doing that in a way that mutually advances both DDO's interests and Juggle's interests. The reason that's important is because he's the only person here that Juggle is going to take seriously, given how he's approaching this. He's basically done diagnostic work that their own site designers should have already done, but have thus far failed to do.

Zaradi is consistently active on the site and in hangouts. The reason he was chosen was because he and bsh1 are very close friends, and because he is dependable. He is not the kind of guy who periodically drops by and says some stuff and then leaves because he thinks he's outgrown the site and the community. He's consistently here, to the extent that he's able, and he's demonstrated his competence with regard to as well as his involvement in the community in a way that situates him to be bsh1's first pic.

Bsh1 and Zaradi are, therefore the only logical choice in this race. They're also both really nice, personable guys who work well together and understand what has to happen in the months following the next presidential administration: they have to reach out to Juggle, to get them to do the things and make the changes that we have been waiting on since Max was president. That is an ostensibly insurmountable uphill trek, but they can and will make it happen --and they are the only ones who can.

As a word of caution, bsh1 and Zaradi are really the last hope to get Juggle to come back to DDO. They are the candidates who can make Juggle *want* to care about us, rather than the leftovers of an administration that wanted to blackmail juggle into unscrewing their latest mobile update by reporting Juggle to Google (which, really, is one of the most disappointingly untactful things I have ever seen any president do).
philochristos
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5/31/2015 5:21:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/31/2015 5:09:49 PM, YYW wrote:
Even if Ore hadn't abandoned the site in the middle of his presidency, this coming election would be a turning point for the site's future. Now that he's gone, and considering the circumstances under which he left, who gets elected here is going to either lay the foundation for Juggle's reinvestment in DDO, or set DDO up to be relegated to the periphery of Juggle's priority list.

I thought the whole reason Ore_Ele left is because Juggle had already relegated DDO to the periphery of their priority list, in which case this election probably won't matter at all.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
YYW
Posts: 36,243
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5/31/2015 5:23:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/31/2015 5:21:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/31/2015 5:09:49 PM, YYW wrote:
Even if Ore hadn't abandoned the site in the middle of his presidency, this coming election would be a turning point for the site's future. Now that he's gone, and considering the circumstances under which he left, who gets elected here is going to either lay the foundation for Juggle's reinvestment in DDO, or set DDO up to be relegated to the periphery of Juggle's priority list.

I thought the whole reason Ore_Ele left is because Juggle had already relegated DDO to the periphery of their priority list, in which case this election probably won't matter at all.

If Juggle had have relegated DDO to the periphery of their priority list, the mobile update wouldn't have happened. But, DDO will become something that Juggle just sits back and collects ad revenue on unless a president of this site can change the way they think.
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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5/31/2015 5:35:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Motion to make Airmax the ultimate DDO dictator, because lets be honest he's the only one who can do sh!t around here.
Thank you for voting!
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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5/31/2015 5:47:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/31/2015 5:09:49 PM, YYW wrote:
Even if Ore hadn't abandoned the site in the middle of his presidency, this coming election would be a turning point for the site's future. Now that he's gone, and considering the circumstances under which he left, who gets elected here is going to either lay the foundation for Juggle's reinvestment in DDO, or set DDO up to be relegated to the periphery of Juggle's priority list.

The persistent theme of DDO's improvement since Juggle took over has been one of sporadic, minimally adequate improvement. The reason is because Juggle is interested in monetizing the site based on ad revenue, more than they are interested in taking this site where -realistically- it could go. The only way to know where you're going is to have a reasonably clear idea about where the site's been and to at the same time be deeply and personally invested in the site's success.

When you're considering between candidates, you've got to think about a lot of factors, but the most important thing you've got to be thinking about is this:

Who is most likely to get Juggle back on our side, doing things to fix and improve the site?

To answer that question, you've got to think about what Juggle's interests are and what our interests are, and you've got to be asking yourself who --among the candidates-- both understands the nexus of those sets of concerns, and realistically can and will take the time to see those projects through to their completion.

Bsh1 either has, or will soon, announce a platform which will be seriously heavy on site interface improvement. There will be community building stuff in there too, but it's heavy on site improvement stuff and the reason is because bsh1 has been planning to run for more than a year now. He's methodically taken the time to figure out what needs to be fixed, in a way that no other candidate has or will because he pays attention to details and doesn't make decisions on a whim. This is something he's been working towards for a long time, because he is personally invested in improving DDO -and doing that in a way that mutually advances both DDO's interests and Juggle's interests. The reason that's important is because he's the only person here that Juggle is going to take seriously, given how he's approaching this. He's basically done diagnostic work that their own site designers should have already done, but have thus far failed to do.

Zaradi is consistently active on the site and in hangouts. The reason he was chosen was because he and bsh1 are very close friends, and because he is dependable. He is not the kind of guy who periodically drops by and says some stuff and then leaves because he thinks he's outgrown the site and the community. He's consistently here, to the extent that he's able, and he's demonstrated his competence with regard to as well as his involvement in the community in a way that situates him to be bsh1's first pic.

Bsh1 and Zaradi are, therefore the only logical choice in this race. They're also both really nice, personable guys who work well together and understand what has to happen in the months following the next presidential administration: they have to reach out to Juggle, to get them to do the things and make the changes that we have been waiting on since Max was president. That is an ostensibly insurmountable uphill trek, but they can and will make it happen --and they are the only ones who can.

As a word of caution, bsh1 and Zaradi are really the last hope to get Juggle to come back to DDO. They are the candidates who can make Juggle *want* to care about us, rather than the leftovers of an administration that wanted to blackmail juggle into unscrewing their latest mobile update by reporting Juggle to Google (which, really, is one of the most disappointingly untactful things I have ever seen any president do).

I haven't said amen to many things in my life, but I believe that what YYW just said deserves one.

Amen sir.
*salutes YYW's profile pic*
Stag-55
Posts: 64
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5/31/2015 10:06:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Wow. People on DDO still think Juggle will take an active intrest in the site. This is what just came out on Edeb8: http://www.edeb8.com...
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
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5/31/2015 10:48:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/31/2015 5:23:27 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/31/2015 5:21:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/31/2015 5:09:49 PM, YYW wrote:
Even if Ore hadn't abandoned the site in the middle of his presidency, this coming election would be a turning point for the site's future. Now that he's gone, and considering the circumstances under which he left, who gets elected here is going to either lay the foundation for Juggle's reinvestment in DDO, or set DDO up to be relegated to the periphery of Juggle's priority list.

I thought the whole reason Ore_Ele left is because Juggle had already relegated DDO to the periphery of their priority list, in which case this election probably won't matter at all.

If Juggle had have relegated DDO to the periphery of their priority list, the mobile update wouldn't have happened. But, DDO will become something that Juggle just sits back and collects ad revenue on unless a president of this site can change the way they think.

No, it's still relegated. The entire reason behind the mobile update was to maintain their profits, not out of care for the site. The only way Juggle will ever act on DDO is for its profit margins. Sad, but true.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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6/1/2015 2:16:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/31/2015 5:09:49 PM, YYW wrote:
bsh1 and Zaradi are really the last hope to get Juggle to come back to DDO. They are the candidates who can make Juggle *want* to care about us, rather than the leftovers of an administration that wanted to blackmail juggle into unscrewing their latest mobile update by reporting Juggle to Google (which, really, is one of the most disappointingly untactful things I have ever seen any president do).

Obama Hope-brand snake oil, not on sale at participating bsh1's.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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6/1/2015 2:42:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/31/2015 10:48:07 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 5/31/2015 5:23:27 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/31/2015 5:21:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/31/2015 5:09:49 PM, YYW wrote:
Even if Ore hadn't abandoned the site in the middle of his presidency, this coming election would be a turning point for the site's future. Now that he's gone, and considering the circumstances under which he left, who gets elected here is going to either lay the foundation for Juggle's reinvestment in DDO, or set DDO up to be relegated to the periphery of Juggle's priority list.

I thought the whole reason Ore_Ele left is because Juggle had already relegated DDO to the periphery of their priority list, in which case this election probably won't matter at all.

If Juggle had have relegated DDO to the periphery of their priority list, the mobile update wouldn't have happened. But, DDO will become something that Juggle just sits back and collects ad revenue on unless a president of this site can change the way they think.

No, it's still relegated. The entire reason behind the mobile update was to maintain their profits, not out of care for the site. The only way Juggle will ever act on DDO is for its profit margins. Sad, but true.

Then the goal has to be to make a profit-based case for fixing the update.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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6/1/2015 2:43:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 2:16:05 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 5/31/2015 5:09:49 PM, YYW wrote:
bsh1 and Zaradi are really the last hope to get Juggle to come back to DDO. They are the candidates who can make Juggle *want* to care about us, rather than the leftovers of an administration that wanted to blackmail juggle into unscrewing their latest mobile update by reporting Juggle to Google (which, really, is one of the most disappointingly untactful things I have ever seen any president do).

Obama Hope-brand snake oil, not on sale at participating YYW's.

Fixed. This post is YYW's, not mine.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
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YYW
Posts: 36,243
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6/1/2015 2:54:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 2:16:05 AM, bluesteel wrote:
Obama Hope-brand snake oil, not on sale at participating bsh1's.

You've got a pretty bad track record of backing candidates, dude. Like, as best I can tell... you've got the worst record of backing candidates of any member on this site.

Maybe it's a good thing you're not on Bhs1/Zaradi's side. A short review of history yields great caution to supporting someone you support, after all. Right now, the fact that you're opposing bsh1 is a pretty good sign that he's the right choice.

And bullsh!t cheap shots aren't going to make me or anyone else take what you're saying seriously...
YYW
Posts: 36,243
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6/1/2015 2:58:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/31/2015 10:48:07 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
No, it's still relegated. The entire reason behind the mobile update was to maintain their profits, not out of care for the site. The only way Juggle will ever act on DDO is for its profit margins. Sad, but true.

Care for profits is care for the site.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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6/1/2015 3:03:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 2:54:18 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/1/2015 2:16:05 AM, bluesteel wrote:
Obama Hope-brand snake oil, not on sale at participating bsh1's.

You've got a pretty bad track record of backing candidates, dude. Like, as best I can tell... you've got the worst record of backing candidates of any member on this site.

Maybe it's a good thing you're not on Bhs1/Zaradi's side. A short review of history yields great caution to supporting someone you support, after all. Right now, the fact that you're opposing bsh1 is a pretty good sign that he's the right choice.

And bullsh!t cheap shots aren't going to make me or anyone else take what you're saying seriously...

I'm not backing anyone. I think the site should at most have a social chair.

And my post was mostly meant to be humorous, although it's true that you're just selling "Hope" with even less chance of success than 2008 Obama.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
YYW
Posts: 36,243
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6/1/2015 3:06:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 3:03:17 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 6/1/2015 2:54:18 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/1/2015 2:16:05 AM, bluesteel wrote:
Obama Hope-brand snake oil, not on sale at participating bsh1's.

You've got a pretty bad track record of backing candidates, dude. Like, as best I can tell... you've got the worst record of backing candidates of any member on this site.

Maybe it's a good thing you're not on Bhs1/Zaradi's side. A short review of history yields great caution to supporting someone you support, after all. Right now, the fact that you're opposing bsh1 is a pretty good sign that he's the right choice.

And bullsh!t cheap shots aren't going to make me or anyone else take what you're saying seriously...

I'm not backing anyone. I think the site should at most have a social chair.

The fact that you disagree with the presidency's existence doesn't give you a license to stick your thumb in the eye of the process.

And my post was mostly meant to be humorous, although it's true that you're just selling "Hope" with even less chance of success than 2008 Obama.

I'm not laughing, or selling anything. I'm being practical, in what is really a last-ditch effort here. What's at stake here is how juggle decided to allocate resources.

You've got one candidate that could have a chance at getting them back doing stuff, and another candidate who will not be able to bridge the gap between Juggle and DDO.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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6/1/2015 3:11:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 3:06:35 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/1/2015 3:03:17 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 6/1/2015 2:54:18 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/1/2015 2:16:05 AM, bluesteel wrote:
Obama Hope-brand snake oil, not on sale at participating bsh1's.

You've got a pretty bad track record of backing candidates, dude. Like, as best I can tell... you've got the worst record of backing candidates of any member on this site.

Maybe it's a good thing you're not on Bhs1/Zaradi's side. A short review of history yields great caution to supporting someone you support, after all. Right now, the fact that you're opposing bsh1 is a pretty good sign that he's the right choice.

And bullsh!t cheap shots aren't going to make me or anyone else take what you're saying seriously...

I'm not backing anyone. I think the site should at most have a social chair.

The fact that you disagree with the presidency's existence doesn't give you a license to stick your thumb in the eye of the process.

And my post was mostly meant to be humorous, although it's true that you're just selling "Hope" with even less chance of success than 2008 Obama.

I'm not laughing, or selling anything. I'm being practical, in what is really a last-ditch effort here. What's at stake here is how juggle decided to allocate resources.

You've got one candidate that could have a chance at getting them back doing stuff, and another candidate who will not be able to bridge the gap between Juggle and DDO.

You're overpromising. If bsh1 said the things you're saying now, I'd think he was a completely unrealistic candidate. But he strongly implied above that he doesn't endorse this.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
YYW
Posts: 36,243
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6/1/2015 3:12:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
What I'd hope people take away from this is that this election really is important because it will define how Juggle regards this site. I know a lot of people don't think that there's any chance at all, and I know it's a long shot, but the very fact that it is a long shot should be in the forefront of everyone's mind.

We want someone who can actually see things through, not someone who decided, after the sitting president decided to abandon the site where she was the VP, to throw her hat into the ring.
YYW
Posts: 36,243
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6/1/2015 3:14:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 3:11:25 AM, bluesteel wrote:
You're overpromising. If bsh1 said the things you're saying now, I'd think he was a completely unrealistic candidate. But he strongly implied above that he doesn't endorse this.

I'm not over promising anything. It's a hail mary, and that should have been clear by the nature of what I said.

And bsh1 was caught off guard by your remark, and went on the defensive because he didn't expect this kind of garbage --lest of all from you-- this early.

But again, let's be clear:

The improbability of success is not a reason not to try. I know it's a long shot for bsh1/zaradi.

It's an impossibility for any other candidate.

The fact that you've decided to give up doesn't mean that others aren't going to do what they can to make things better.
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,222
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6/1/2015 3:20:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 5/31/2015 10:48:07 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 5/31/2015 5:23:27 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/31/2015 5:21:22 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/31/2015 5:09:49 PM, YYW wrote:
Even if Ore hadn't abandoned the site in the middle of his presidency, this coming election would be a turning point for the site's future. Now that he's gone, and considering the circumstances under which he left, who gets elected here is going to either lay the foundation for Juggle's reinvestment in DDO, or set DDO up to be relegated to the periphery of Juggle's priority list.

I thought the whole reason Ore_Ele left is because Juggle had already relegated DDO to the periphery of their priority list, in which case this election probably won't matter at all.

If Juggle had have relegated DDO to the periphery of their priority list, the mobile update wouldn't have happened. But, DDO will become something that Juggle just sits back and collects ad revenue on unless a president of this site can change the way they think.

No, it's still relegated. The entire reason behind the mobile update was to maintain their profits, not out of care for the site. The only way Juggle will ever act on DDO is for its profit margins. Sad, but true.

Then the goal has to be to make a profit-based case for fixing the update.

There isn't one. You're no more valuable to Juggle than the thousands of noobs who find the site weekly. They don't care what you think. You're lost in the deluge. Hope in Juggle is, at this point, insane.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

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bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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6/1/2015 3:22:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 3:20:08 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 6/1/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 5/31/2015 10:48:07 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
No, it's still relegated. The entire reason behind the mobile update was to maintain their profits, not out of care for the site. The only way Juggle will ever act on DDO is for its profit margins. Sad, but true.

Then the goal has to be to make a profit-based case for fixing the update.

There isn't one. You're no more valuable to Juggle than the thousands of noobs who find the site weekly. They don't care what you think. You're lost in the deluge. Hope in Juggle is, at this point, insane.

I disagree. A dysfunctional update turns away users who access DDO by mobile device. Many users just won't put up with it. That means content on the site isn't being generated at the rate it could be, which means reduced views and ad revenue for Juggle. Given Ore's recommendation, it could even hurt them in Google's standings. So, there are profit motives that could impel them to reform.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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6/1/2015 3:23:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 3:14:35 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/1/2015 3:11:25 AM, bluesteel wrote:
You're overpromising. If bsh1 said the things you're saying now, I'd think he was a completely unrealistic candidate. But he strongly implied above that he doesn't endorse this.

I'm not over promising anything. It's a hail mary, and that should have been clear by the nature of what I said.

And bsh1 was caught off guard by your remark, and went on the defensive because he didn't expect this kind of garbage --lest of all from you-- this early.

But again, let's be clear:

The improbability of success is not a reason not to try. I know it's a long shot for bsh1/zaradi.

It's an impossibility for any other candidate.

The fact that you've decided to give up doesn't mean that others aren't going to do what they can to make things better.

I still have a vote and a voice. I assume bsh1 reacted the way he did because he didn't want to make an enemy out of me for no apparent reason, something you seem fine with doing.

You can try to frame me as an old bitter member, like Ore_Ele, who has given up. But the fact is that Ore and I know more about the inner goings on at Juggle than most other members. The proper framing is that I'm a realist who understands the reality of the present situation, and a candidate who makes most of their platform about site updates is deluding themselves and the site. If I do end up supporting a candidate, it will be the one who has a better non-Juggle-dependent platform.

Unless bsh1 is going to go camp out at Juggle headquarters, the most he can do is email them. And I have inside knowledge that leads me to believe Juggle won't respond to his emails (or any president's).
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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6/1/2015 3:25:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 2:54:18 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/1/2015 2:16:05 AM, bluesteel wrote:
Obama Hope-brand snake oil, not on sale at participating bsh1's.

You've got a pretty bad track record of backing candidates, dude...

You're so shameless, YYW, it almost makes me like you:

At 12/9/2014 7:01:47 PM, YYW wrote:
What Mikal represents to DDO is all that we would hope for our community to be. He is indebted to the community, for how we reached out to him in his time of need and in many ways this is an opportunity for him to uniquely give back. I believe Mikal will give back in ways that not only advance community interests but which also benefit DDO overall, just as I believe that it is out of a sense of service that he campaigns for this position. It is not because he was compelled, or because he felt obliged to not disappoint an establishment -but because of a sincere commitment to the community. And in that way, what Mikal's campaign represents the best in all of us, as a symbol of the warmth and good will that so characterizes our community.

...

While there is a certain comfort in the way things are, Mikal has demonstrated his willingness to pursue more. While Cermank, Blade's Vice Presidential candidate has voiced doubts in the idea that there is even a possibility to connect and collaborate with Juggle to advance site interests, Mikal is busy trying to figure out what and how he can best serve the community. The reason is because rather than complaining about the impossibility of a situation, Mikal is far more interested in figuring out what needs to be done to make things happen.

And here, as ever, it must be known by all who vote in this election that Mikal's sole allegiance is to you, the people, who comprise the community. Whether you vote for him or not, if elected Mikal will represent your interests -especially where they stand in opposition with the beliefs and practices of those who would deny them to you. This is why Cermank suggested that Mikal would wreck everything if elected -because she understands where Mikal's loyalty lies. It is with you, and that is what this presidency is all about.

I have many thoughts about the things which have happened in this election, and this has been the messiest one in a while. But, let us not lose site on why we vote in these to begin with. We do not elect presidents on the basis of who won't rock the boat, as Cermank and others have suggested we do. We elect people on the basis of who will stand up for what we want, and who will not bend in pursuit of those ends.

Now that you know who Mikal is, I hope you will consider voting for him as well.

Thank you.

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YYW
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6/1/2015 3:27:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 3:23:09 AM, bluesteel wrote:

It's not that I'm interested in making an enemy out of you, so much as I'm not going to allow you to sit back and spit at the process and make bullsh!t attacks on things that you don't believe are possible.

What you know is that Ore tried and failed, and then gave up after a few weeks in a grandiose gesture of "Fvck it, I quit!" I know that, because you have recently found yourself in a quasi-mod position, that you think you know what's what. And maybe you've learned some things. That's nice.

I'm not wiling to throw in the towel so easily, but maybe that's the difference between you and I... maybe it's the difference between you and bsh1.
ShabShoral
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6/1/2015 3:28:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 3:22:57 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/1/2015 3:20:08 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 6/1/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 5/31/2015 10:48:07 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
No, it's still relegated. The entire reason behind the mobile update was to maintain their profits, not out of care for the site. The only way Juggle will ever act on DDO is for its profit margins. Sad, but true.

Then the goal has to be to make a profit-based case for fixing the update.

There isn't one. You're no more valuable to Juggle than the thousands of noobs who find the site weekly. They don't care what you think. You're lost in the deluge. Hope in Juggle is, at this point, insane.

I disagree. A dysfunctional update turns away users who access DDO by mobile device. Many users just won't put up with it. That means content on the site isn't being generated at the rate it could be, which means reduced views and ad revenue for Juggle. Given Ore's recommendation, it could even hurt them in Google's standings. So, there are profit motives that could impel them to reform.

The members lost from the update are a very marginal amount of the total influx. I doubt that an investment in a new mobile site would be profitable (at least in the short-term).
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YYW
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6/1/2015 3:30:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 3:25:20 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 6/1/2015 2:54:18 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/1/2015 2:16:05 AM, bluesteel wrote:
Obama Hope-brand snake oil, not on sale at participating bsh1's.

You've got a pretty bad track record of backing candidates, dude...

You're so shameless, YYW, it almost makes me like you:

What's amazing to me is how willing so many on this site are to just give up, call it quits and go home.

I will not throw in the towel, and you can call that shameless or you can call it persistent. But it's the difference between me and others.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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6/1/2015 3:31:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 3:28:56 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 6/1/2015 3:22:57 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/1/2015 3:20:08 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 6/1/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 5/31/2015 10:48:07 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
No, it's still relegated. The entire reason behind the mobile update was to maintain their profits, not out of care for the site. The only way Juggle will ever act on DDO is for its profit margins. Sad, but true.

Then the goal has to be to make a profit-based case for fixing the update.

There isn't one. You're no more valuable to Juggle than the thousands of noobs who find the site weekly. They don't care what you think. You're lost in the deluge. Hope in Juggle is, at this point, insane.

I disagree. A dysfunctional update turns away users who access DDO by mobile device. Many users just won't put up with it. That means content on the site isn't being generated at the rate it could be, which means reduced views and ad revenue for Juggle. Given Ore's recommendation, it could even hurt them in Google's standings. So, there are profit motives that could impel them to reform.

The members lost from the update are a very marginal amount of the total influx. I doubt that an investment in a new mobile site would be profitable (at least in the short-term).

I disagree. I think a large group of people will access the site via mobile with at least some regularity--even if it isn't their primary mode of access. Those people will get frustrated at the asinine nature of the update, and may just stop using the site or use it with reduce frequency. That hurts Juggle. And, at the very least, a long-term profitability argument is still a decent one, though I think short-term profitability is still on my side. I think the loss would be more than marginal.
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YYW
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6/1/2015 3:32:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 3:28:56 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
The members lost from the update are a very marginal amount of the total influx. I doubt that an investment in a new mobile site would be profitable (at least in the short-term).

The basic problem with what you're saying is that you're assuming some inherent disjunction between what Juggle wants and what DDO wants.

juggle wants ad revenue from users. Users want to go to a site that has a good interface which generates ad revenue. it's really that simple.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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6/1/2015 3:32:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 3:27:54 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/1/2015 3:23:09 AM, bluesteel wrote:

It's not that I'm interested in making an enemy out of you, so much as I'm not going to allow you to sit back and spit at the process and make bullsh!t attacks on things that you don't believe are possible.

What you know is that Ore tried and failed, and then gave up after a few weeks in a grandiose gesture of "Fvck it, I quit!" I know that, because you have recently found yourself in a quasi-mod position, that you think you know what's what. And maybe you've learned some things. That's nice.

I'm not wiling to throw in the towel so easily, but maybe that's the difference between you and I... maybe it's the difference between you and bsh1.

The difference between a pessimist and a realist is that the pessimist gives up on potentially successful options due to an overly negative outlook. The realist selects the best option based on the reality of the situation.

If you want to paint bsh1 as a head-in-the-clouds non-realist, go right ahead. Anyone with half a brain can see that this "let's have optimism about Juggle" bs is just campaign babble.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
YYW
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6/1/2015 3:38:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 3:32:47 AM, bluesteel wrote:

I've been clear about what I've said. I'm not interested in wasting time clarifying. People can make their own decisions.

I'm also not interested in giving up on an improved mobile site, or an improved interface. If you have, that's your business.
YYW
Posts: 36,243
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6/1/2015 3:45:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
@Bluesteel

As a note: This kind of thing, that we're doing right now, is reciprocal. You throw some stones my way... I throw some stones yours. You should reasonably expect that. It's not like I'm just going to sit back and just ignore a comment like the one you made. But it doesn't have to be this way....

I also know that, based on the last election, when your feelings get hurt you tend to go on crusades against people (ex: Mizra). I can be just as persistent as you are, too.

I'd like not to see that kind of thing in this election, at all. I know you've got thoughts and a perspective to share, and that's fine. But I'm not interested in personal bullshitwith you or anyone else. So, this talk of "enemies" or whatever is really both out of place, and in neither of our interests, or the site's interest generally.

Let's keep it clean, this time.